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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Kissinger kicked the bucket [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #28563513 - 12/01/23 09:34 AM (1 month, 26 days ago)

I actually reject the notion that there has to be a maniacal blood thirsty super power in the world. I think it is possible for there to be a world in which people coexist, without anyone doing the sort of horrible things Kissinger is responsible for. That's why I oppose war, except under very specific circumstances. It's possible to create massive influence in the world, through economic prosperity and good-will, rather than coercion and destruction. That is the approach China is taking today.

Yes, every person has flaws, however, good deeds were the exception to the rule, with Kissinger.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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Every one of you should see this video.
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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Kissinger kicked the bucket [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #28563531 - 12/01/23 09:45 AM (1 month, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I actually reject the notion that there has to be a maniacal blood thirsty super power in the world. I think it is possible for there to be a world in which people coexist, without anyone doing the sort of horrible things Kissinger is responsible for. That's why I oppose war, except under very specific circumstances. It's possible to create massive influence in the world, through economic prosperity and good-will, rather than coercion and destruction. That is the approach China is taking today.

Yes, every person has flaws, however, good deeds were the exception to the rule, with Kissinger.





Me too.
I don't think the fucked operations in Laos, Cambodia, Iraq, etc tip the scale that America is that fucked regime you speak of. We have to admit the fucked shit we do. We also have to admit the good. I don't think because something has flaws that the entire entity itself must be thrown out irredeemable. 
*although there is a minority that are* there are exceptions to this, but thats the judgement call I spoke of.

Again, not a Kissinger fan. He will be viewed mostly by his unnecessary "secret" wars, in fact, he is getting a heavy dose relatively quicker than most.


Edited by SirTripAlot (12/01/23 09:54 AM)


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Kissinger kicked the bucket [Re: SirTripAlot] * 2
    #28563611 - 12/01/23 10:57 AM (1 month, 26 days ago)

After 35 years of basing foreign policy on the domino theory (Vietnam, Chile, etc. etc.) it turns out the theory was wrong.

Not really an intellectual breakthrough. Nobody important could have stayed important declaring that earlier. Robert McNamara was as influential advising Presidents during the early Vietnam years as Kissinger was later. In 1995 McNamara said he no longer believed the domino theory. In 1996 the Defense Department published a paper saying the theory was initially true, but lost credibility in the 70's. Guessing so much counter evidence accumulated that they had to fess up. If we learned a lesson from this, it probably wasn't a good one.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Kissinger kicked the bucket [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28563810 - 12/01/23 01:38 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
We have to admit the fucked shit we do. We also have to admit the good.




Tell me about the good.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Kissinger kicked the bucket [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28563836 - 12/01/23 01:53 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

-The 1st Amendment.
- The food.
-Been deployed everywhere and some of the coolest people I have met here.

- The US remains the #1 country where immigrants reside. If we suck so bad, why is this?

- Although there are always exceptions to the rule, I believe most people get a halfway decent shake at a good life.

I mean, there's more.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Kissinger kicked the bucket [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28563883 - 12/01/23 02:23 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

I meant more... foreign policy-wise.

Of course there are a lot of great things about America haha... I wouldn't argue there.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Kissinger kicked the bucket [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28564044 - 12/01/23 05:01 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

I will admit, the last couple decades are sparse.

NATO
Declaring war after Japan attacked
Around 60 billion in aid
12 billion to the UN.
WW1
Broker for Bosnia Peace
NAFTA

Off the top off my head.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Kissinger kicked the bucket [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28564429 - 12/01/23 08:42 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
I will admit, the last couple decades are sparse.

Broker for Bosnia Peace

Off the top off my head.




Fixed that for you.

I guess you're right... America's done some good in the world.

:smirk:

I would say that the greatest thing America has done for the world, is the Revolutionary war, which inspired revolutions throughout the world.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (12/01/23 08:44 PM)


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Kissinger kicked the bucket [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28564458 - 12/01/23 09:09 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)

the internet?


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Kissinger kicked the bucket [Re: mushboy] * 1
    #28564460 - 12/01/23 09:11 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)

Pretty sure that was the French and the British, technically speaking. And then Switzerland designed the first actual internet internet as we'd recognize it, instead of specific networking capabilities.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Kissinger kicked the bucket [Re: Kryptos]
    #28564765 - 12/02/23 05:29 AM (1 month, 25 days ago)

You mean in the sense that it wasn't UseNet? Pretty sure that was invented in the US, and while uncommonly spoken of today, it remains extremely widely used. Depending on the indexer you chose, you can access just about anything you want. That's been the case since at least the mid 80's, though the content of course was limited, as was the hardware capability. Those limitations were universal of course. Browsing to a site via a distinct easily recognizable address came later, but UseNet had been going for a decade before that, and still marches on to this day. I use it every single day.


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InvisibleTulipslave
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Registered: 07/25/17
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Re: Kissinger kicked the bucket [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #28564878 - 12/02/23 07:42 AM (1 month, 25 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
You dont think Kiss and China was an accomplishment?




I think it was an inevitability. Nixon wanted to normalize relations with China.

Quote:

All in a function of a nation, bro. Especially one that has been on top. The fact remains that if any other nation had the advantage of the US, things would be similar, unfortunately. That's not an excuse, but an explanation. When you can grab more power and influence without taking it in a coercive manner or killing people, let me know.




Look... Since we're buds... I'm not gonna talk to you about Kissinger anymore. In my opinion, he was an irredeemable  bloodthirsty maniac, who was utterly drunk on power. I'll leave it at that ;-)

When I think about characters like Kissinger, I see red...





As my first post, history will not be kind. You could post the most noble world leader ever, and there will be something negative there. Everyone has to make a judgement call if the scales are tipped one way or another. I don't think he was a good person on the scale tip side. I have heard stories of him toning down a drunk Nixon though. To say he absolutely no part in anything beneficial (like China) is not accurate in my opinion .





Evil people do occasionally do non-evil things. That doesn't make them any less evil.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Kissinger kicked the bucket [Re: Tulipslave]
    #28565003 - 12/02/23 09:29 AM (1 month, 25 days ago)

Nor does it make them absolutely evil.  I do think there are some that meet that threshold, though. Was Kissinger on the same scale say of Nero or the Khmer Rouge? That's ones judgement call.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Kissinger kicked the bucket [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #28565010 - 12/02/23 09:32 AM (1 month, 25 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
-The 1st Amendment.
- The food.
-Been deployed everywhere and some of the coolest people I have met here.

- The US remains the #1 country where immigrants reside. If we suck so bad, why is this?

- Although there are always exceptions to the rule, I believe most people get a halfway decent shake at a good life.

I mean, there's more.




This is just “oh you hate billionaires? What about their charities?” but on a bigger scale.


--------------------


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Kissinger kicked the bucket [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28565015 - 12/02/23 09:40 AM (1 month, 25 days ago)

No thats not the panty waste, "America is so evil" dribble I hear from people while they are obviously able to live here. They have food, given they post here for years, have the time to post here so aren't on the street. Of course life can suck, get in line with everyone else. Stop using the USA as the sole source of life's bullshit though.

So the 1st Amendment isn't good?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Kissinger kicked the bucket [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #28565016 - 12/02/23 09:44 AM (1 month, 25 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Nor does it make them absolutely evil.  I do think there are some that meet that threshold, though. Was Kissinger on the same scale say of Nero or the Khmer Rouge? That's ones judgement call.




Pretty sure Kissinger and Nixon's bombing campaign in Cambodia had a lot to do with the Khmer Rouge.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Kissinger kicked the bucket [Re: Kryptos]
    #28565027 - 12/02/23 09:58 AM (1 month, 25 days ago)

I have read it created  "the conditions". I am open to more information to that but haven't found anything definitive, yet.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Kissinger kicked the bucket [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28565040 - 12/02/23 10:09 AM (1 month, 25 days ago)

I have nothing definitive, I just find that massive bombing campaigns have a tendency to destabilize situations, and rebels have an easier time seizing power when conditions are unstable.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Kissinger kicked the bucket [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #28565070 - 12/02/23 10:41 AM (1 month, 25 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
No thats not the panty waste, "America is so evil" dribble I hear from people while they are obviously able to live here. They have food, given they post here for years, have the time to post here so aren't on the street. Of course life can suck, get in line with everyone else. Stop using the USA as the sole source of life's bullshit though.

So the 1st Amendment isn't good?




I think universal healthcare is good, that doesn’t mean I think the British empire is/was a net positive for the world.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Kissinger kicked the bucket [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28565086 - 12/02/23 10:51 AM (1 month, 25 days ago)

Reminds me of an old philosophical/religious question I once heard: What are the chances of all the physical constants lining up so perfectly by chance, and not by design? 100%. 1 of 1 universes have them all lined up.

Could the good be achieved without the bad? I'd like to think so, but we can't really go back in time and check.


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