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Battleguy
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Suicide and Psychedelic Use
#28560333 - 11/29/23 05:40 AM (1 month, 29 days ago) |
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I was curious if anyone has imput on why suicidal idiation seems to be a common theme in higher dose use in psychedelics? What is it that makes people “want” to commit suicide? Years back I had a suicidal experience on 5g PE, however I didn’t have the desire to hurt myself. Nor uave I ever before or since then. In the moment I thought an entity was telling me to otherwise I would not be allowed to come back to this “reality”. Bizzare and scary stuff. As a disclaimer I am aware that it is a possibility that this was “just my brain” or “it wasn’t” and to not dwell on these things as absolute truth, go about life, be a good person etc… haha. And also it is very important to be in a healthy “sober” mindset and in a safe environment with trustworthy peers just incase things go arry. That said, does anyone have any imput on why this is so common? Does anyone have any beliefs they’d like to share? Any and all feedback is appreciated!
-------------------- If you can fill the unforgiving minute With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run, Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it, And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
Edited by Battleguy (11/29/23 05:04 PM)
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Northerner
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: Battleguy]
#28560381 - 11/29/23 06:45 AM (1 month, 29 days ago) |
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It's not common. I've never heard of that before. Thinking you are going to die and getting caught in a mortal fear spiral is fairly common on higher doses though.
Freaky trip man. Did you feel a lot of relief or gratitude when it passed? What was it like after?
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: Battleguy]
#28560382 - 11/29/23 06:46 AM (1 month, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
Battleguy said: I was curious if anyone has imput on why suicidal idiation seems to be a common theme in higher dose use in psychedelics? What is it that makes people “want” to commit suicide? Years back I had a suicidal experience on 5g PE, however I didn’t have the desire to hurt myself. Nor uave I ever before or since then. In the moment I thought an entity was telling me to otherwise I would not be allowed to come back to this “reality”. Bizzare and scary stuff. As a disclaimer I am aware that it is a possibility that this was “just my brain” or “it wasn’t” and to not dwell on these things as absolute truth, go about life, be a good person etc… haha. And also it is very important to be in a healthy “sober” mindset and in a safe environment with trustworthy peers just incase things go arry. That said, does anyone have any imput on why this is so common? Does anyone have any beliefs they’d like to share? Any and all feedback is appreciated!
Well it's not that common, but is still our human experience which (as it says on the tin) encompasses heaven and hell, the demonic and divine. And they ain't exaggerating about the hell part!
I experienced a psychotic break on psychedelics when I was seventeen over 20 years ago. But at that time didn't wish to die or kill myself, fighting with everything I had to survive against demoniacal delusions of my own death by homicide.
I don't know why anyone's thoughts would turn to suicide because to be honest I don't share that particular compulsion. No way I would ever do that. I did get all kinds of insane compulsions (that I didn't act on so maybe compulsion isn’t quite the right word) such as to bite my own fingers off and other visions of self-mutilation (could taste blood throughout the whole experience) though there was not a time when I actually wanted to hurt anyone, least of all myself.
I think there's only a very slim (but significant) proportion of the population (knew a guy myself who killed himself around the same time) who have suicidal inclinations while the rest would do almost anything to avoid death (including murder) if convinced it would save them! Why (some seek out suicide) that is, is a very good question! Pain so deep that it outweighs fear of death? Or pain, with a fear of death not so as intense as it is for other people?
No idea!
However the mind turning to death (or spiraling into death loops) is more understandable. Death is our deepest fear. Get into a delusional state and the demons will know just which buttons to press to get you moving!
Mushrooms at higher doses, like LSD, can also get pretty damned psychotic and delusional (especially with cannabis thrown in), and the plain fact is that psychedelics can be very dangerous in the wrong hands at the wrong times.
Trip sitters can be pretty useless (or make things worse) as well if they don't really know what they're doing!
A good sitter will be expert in preventing/calming a bad reaction before it occurs but good luck stopping a person who has already lost his shit!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
Edited by wolf8312 (11/29/23 07:39 AM)
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tree frog
eats bugs


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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: Battleguy] 1
#28560411 - 11/29/23 07:22 AM (1 month, 29 days ago) |
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I've lived with suicidal ideation off and on my whole life. Very rarely have I felt that way on psychedelics.
I believed I was evil one night, and thought about it then. This was over twenty years ago. So any sort of shame spiral could do it I imagine
Probably tripped a hundred times or more since then and that's the only time I remember.
And this is someone predisposed to this.
So, I would guess it's not common. Shame and SI are very closed mindsets. Psychedelics tend to open the heart and mind. Obviously it does happen. But ime, actually far far less than sober
-------------------- Listen to the silence behind the engines' noise. Jesus, Sweets, listen. Hear it? It's a love song. For whom? You are loved. ~ David Foster Wallace, Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way
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Battleguy
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: Northerner]
#28560421 - 11/29/23 07:32 AM (1 month, 29 days ago) |
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I appreciate the response! To answer your questions, I was pretty relieved when it stopped! Even more bizarre, I got into a little “begging for another chance” situation with whatever it was that I was talking to. Myself, entity, etc… maybe in a strange way the same thing. In a way. And shortly after me asking for another chance, I got a brief maybe 2 second out of body visual of myself and a blue entity made of light(kinda looked similar to the aliens at the end of the movie “knowing”) slammed my face on the floor, I could’ve just tripped, and gave me a concussion and the trip almost abruptly stopped. My face was soar for awhile after that haha. And for a few months after was a strange series of events that I guess the most logical way to explain it would be psychosis. I will admit I was smoking a TON of weed through a lot of that period. I am very grateful for that experience. However, I will be honest and say I have somewhat of a bias towards psychedelics and marijuana and the like. I think they can be beneficial. And things can be learned. However I believe the is merit in the sober state and that those things can and maybe should, RARELY and with intuition not impulse or desire, be used as a means to kinda nudge you in the right direction. I think we are all sent hear for a purpose. A purpose that needs to be fulfilled without crutches in a sober state. And that we as a collective and individuals need to learn to deal with our various forms of suffering head on. Without anything other than what lies within. Basically when your in hell push through. I Do fear that there are consequences from “Seeing to much” i’ve basically been trying to learn about other peoples experiences, to see if I can notice any overarching themes in this space. Thanks again for the response!
-------------------- If you can fill the unforgiving minute With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run, Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it, And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
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Battleguy
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: tree frog]
#28560427 - 11/29/23 07:38 AM (1 month, 29 days ago) |
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I appreciate the response! If you don’t mind me asking, have you ever had any entity encounters? If so what kind of things would they tell you? More specifically, was there ever anything you were told by them that may not be the most settling? Kind of outside your standard everything is love and ultimate truth type stuff? I suppose the easiest way to find out would be just to eat more mushrooms haha. But I will admit I have a lot of fear and “intuition” about going back to those places. Like far in there so to speak.
-------------------- If you can fill the unforgiving minute With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run, Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it, And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: Battleguy] 1
#28560445 - 11/29/23 08:01 AM (1 month, 29 days ago) |
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A certain percentage of us are convinced that suicide is the only way to stop an endless sequence of pain or suffering even if it is the end of the self, or annihilation of life. For these people dignity may not be an issue, it is the impulse that they feel is natural. Specifically for many in the throes of terminal illnesses, suicide may be the most dignified choice, and assisted suicide is provided for that sector.
For others, some kind of support often counters the impulse - as there are limits to the conditions that are driving the idea, and contact with other can bring them from the brink.
Suicidal ideation, as a thing, has been introduced widely by pharmaceutical companies in their densely printed lists of warnings and possible side effects.
My brother killed himself shortly after starting effexor, which has a warning on the package about "suicidal ideation". I really question whether suicidal thinking is a side effect of the medicine, or a thing more popular in the segment of the population that takes effexor.
That is to say, are people who contemplate suicide from time to time, more likely already depressed or obsessive, and are they the ones who are proscribed antidepressants, or does antidepressant make suicidal ideation a likely feature of treatment of depression?
I do not know of suicides in cases without some depression; and many suicides have occurred without effexor, or any drugs.
However, a person may wonder after he hears about a specific suicide, and in wondering set up "ideation" and if really inebriated on psychedelics, they may experience some thought loops encircling this idea. The outcome of this is very much up to set, setting, and dose.
I recommend not thinking about it too deeply except for the relief gained in assisted suicide for the terminally ill who are suffering needlessly without hope of any other relief. (I know of 2 of these cases and respect their final gestures)
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tree frog
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: Battleguy]
#28560449 - 11/29/23 08:12 AM (1 month, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
Battleguy said: I appreciate the response! If you don’t mind me asking, have you ever had any entity encounters? If so what kind of things would they tell you? More specifically, was there ever anything you were told by them that may not be the most settling? Kind of outside your standard everything is love and ultimate truth type stuff? I suppose the easiest way to find out would be just to eat more mushrooms haha. But I will admit I have a lot of fear and “intuition” about going back to those places. Like far in there so to speak.
My SI doesn't feel like intrusive thoughts or an external entity. Generally, it's the more wholesome mind states like compassion that shows up like that. My SI feels like me. It's been here a long time.
As far as using psychedelics to integrate your trip, find a sitter you can trust. The trauma of wanting to self harm could be a rough one to unpack. Meditation would probably be helpful too. Regardless if you take mushrooms again.
-------------------- Listen to the silence behind the engines' noise. Jesus, Sweets, listen. Hear it? It's a love song. For whom? You are loved. ~ David Foster Wallace, Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way
Edited by tree frog (11/29/23 08:17 AM)
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tree frog
eats bugs


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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: tree frog]
#28560483 - 11/29/23 09:09 AM (1 month, 28 days ago) |
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Sorry for the double post but I wanted to add.
I have had psychotic breaks on psychedelics and thought I had to do a lot of random things to make things okay.
Anxiety can do this by itself though and being very high and confused is anxiety provoking for most everyone.
Killing myself just never was the way out aside from that one time I thought I was the problem needing fixed.
-------------------- Listen to the silence behind the engines' noise. Jesus, Sweets, listen. Hear it? It's a love song. For whom? You are loved. ~ David Foster Wallace, Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way
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Jim I.T.I
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: tree frog]
#28560561 - 11/29/23 10:22 AM (1 month, 28 days ago) |
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here's another angle. i wasn't suicidal until i had a series of unfortunate events happen in my life. after loosing my my career, health, financial stability and then my partner i had no reason to want to go on. i started seeing a shrink because i knew how i going to do it and i thought talking to someone would either seal the deal or change my mind. in conversations my decades of fascination with psychedelics came up and they said they wouldn't be opposed to me seeking them out. so i learned how to grow shrooms. the shrooms actually turned me around and away from suicidal plans. and at the same time i credit my readiness to die to allowing me to let 100% go of myself under the influence of shrooms, have a complete mystical transcendental out of body experience that lasted 3 days. now i don't think about ending it anymore than anyone else.
I'm very sorry to hear about your brother. May he finally be at peace.
-------------------- Be patient & Let it happen
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,322
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: Battleguy]
#28560570 - 11/29/23 10:28 AM (1 month, 28 days ago) |
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Can we put this where people have the option to post anon. I believe people would feel more comfortable sharing something that is so deeply personal.
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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Northerner
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: loladoreen]
#28560868 - 11/29/23 02:23 PM (1 month, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
loladoreen said: Can we put this where people have the option to post anon. I believe people would feel more comfortable sharing something that is so deeply personal.
OP had that option but decided to make the discussion general and open. I don't think it's a moderators choice to override his decision. There is discussion on this topic in the health and wellbeing forum where people can post anonymously. Or they can start their own thread there if they want that.
It can be a difficult subject I understand, but it's a facet of the human condition and open discussion can only serve to destigmatize it, making it easier for people to be honest and feel less isolated. Very few of us are untouched by this in one way or another after all.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,322
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: Battleguy]
#28560871 - 11/29/23 02:27 PM (1 month, 28 days ago) |
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Agree. There may be people wanting to discuss sensitive topics and feel more comfortable in anon. I understand what you are saying.
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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Turvenuija
Up shroom creek without a paddle

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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: loladoreen]
#28560967 - 11/29/23 03:44 PM (1 month, 28 days ago) |
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I've had many many trips where I've thought about suicide but I can never remember precisely why when I'm not high. Something about reality being a lie but there's more to it that I couldn't describe with words even if I could remember. I've reasoned that there's no point dying yet just in case I'm wrong. The moment I discard the possibility of being wrong about something so important is when I can kiss the rest of my sanity goodbye. So death can wait.
I've been stuck with this dilemma for a long time. Many people here would think of me as delusional or in psychosis but naturally I don't think I am. I don't blame you, a small part of me agrees. After experiencing it so many times over the years it has been ingrained into me, it's a core pillar of my world view now. I feel that death is the only thing left to try to escape. I don't have high hopes for that working either to be honest, I'd probably wake up in my bed thinking it was just a bad dream or something wacky like that.
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Battleguy
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: loladoreen]
#28561050 - 11/29/23 05:02 PM (1 month, 28 days ago) |
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I would be Happy to! Is there a way to move a preexisting post over? Thanks for the suggestion! I was unaware there was an anonymous option! If not I can repost over there or rewrite in a different way as to not spam!
-------------------- If you can fill the unforgiving minute With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run, Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it, And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
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Northerner
splelling chceker


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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: Battleguy]
#28561063 - 11/29/23 05:12 PM (1 month, 28 days ago) |
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I don't know if it will anonymise current posters if I move it Battle guy, I've never moved a thread there before, and I won't be able to help anymore as I'm not a moderator within anon. It's pretty quiet over there too. Knowing what it's like there, if this was my thread, I wouldn't move it.
If you want to do the same thread anon please feel free. You will touch different parts of the community as well and get different responses.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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Battleguy
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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: Northerner] 1
#28561079 - 11/29/23 05:25 PM (1 month, 28 days ago) |
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I appreciate it! I did post the subject over in health in wellness anonymously! Formatted slightly differently!
-------------------- If you can fill the unforgiving minute With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run, Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it, And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
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Battleguy
Stranger

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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: Turvenuija]
#28561086 - 11/29/23 05:33 PM (1 month, 28 days ago) |
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I’m sorry to hear your pain. If it makes you feel any better many would consider me a person with “psychosis” as well. My whole view on everything shifted for sure after those last couple of doses. It was a very scary experience. If it’s of any help, I think our pain and suffering, in a weird way, comes from a place of live. I don’t know what your beliefs are, but if you believe in any sort of higher power kinda like I do, I believe that that higher power puts us through trials of suffering not to punish us but to teach is. Like in life theres an action, a resistance, and you either get destroyed by that resistance or you overcome it. Stronger and more wise. And better yet, newfound skills to be used to help others. And worst case scenario, you get destroyed, you get to retry again, somewhere else. Possibly with that experience traumatized within the fabric of our DNA. Making is stronger and more wise wither way. I think maybe if we look hard enough, we will see love and good intent behind everything. Mayne not directly, but an overarching force at play.
-------------------- If you can fill the unforgiving minute With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run, Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it, And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
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Battleguy
Stranger

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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: Jim I.T.I]
#28561090 - 11/29/23 05:38 PM (1 month, 28 days ago) |
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I have heard a lot of positive testimonies in that regard! I’m really happy to hear that it was able to help! I think the mistake I made was smoking a lot of marijuana during the experience. Now that I think of it all of my “bad” trips were while I was smoking marijuana. And WOW 3 days haha! Do you mind sharing what you experienced specifically that made that change for you? Or was more just and accumulation of multiple things that changed your perspective/mental wellbeing?
-------------------- If you can fill the unforgiving minute With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run, Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it, And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
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Battleguy
Stranger

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Re: Suicide and Psychedelic Use [Re: tree frog]
#28561097 - 11/29/23 05:41 PM (1 month, 28 days ago) |
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I appreciate it! Man I tell you the times I “really really” invested some time into meditation and mindfulness, was a complete game changer. I’m a heavy weight procrastinator haha. That said I do fully intend on making it a more regular practice! And the anxiety is a big one for me. It’s gotten a lot better though!
-------------------- If you can fill the unforgiving minute With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run, Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it, And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
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