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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28555043 - 11/24/23 01:52 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

All great brainstorming..

Discord, I feel would still be giving the site responsibility that can have negative repercussions.
Albeit, will say that I'm not at all familiar with the platform, so don't know the extent of potential benefits over a thread here.

Am hearing a willingness from great contributers to sort of 'watch over', and think with time, more would be wanting to help.
The more helpers, the more ways to view a new post incoming.
The more people feeling less alone and maybe even helped, the better the health of our community.

I'm seeing both sides to it, but think the pros outweigh the cons, still.
With so many people who vanish from here I would question how many commit suicide.
I know thats a bold statement, but the more I went digging and found peoples final message/general mindstate* before going dark, the more convinced I am.
Not to mention those we know about.

This website hosts drug users/abusers.
Again. Drugs and mental health go hand and hand.
There should be better active, real life support for those struggling with life and death. Not just a number and a collection of links. Think that's what he wanted, but once the thread hit page 2 no one knew it was available.
Vote pro sticky.

If you want I can draft up something for the OP, lmk feevers.


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


Edited by birdeatingspider (11/24/23 02:32 PM)


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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #28555113 - 11/24/23 03:07 PM (2 months, 2 days ago)

That’s a very poignant statement.
I have examples of people that I’m wondering about.
I haven’t even been here that long.


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 1
    #28555212 - 11/24/23 04:29 PM (2 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

GenesisCorrupted said:
I haven’t even been here that long.



Ya sure? :wink:

Just want to add, it makes my day big time when MIA members return saying they have a family and own a company, or just that they are clean.

Am not discounting the percentage of members who have grown up and drift off.

My attention is to the easily findable folk who were outwardly suicidal, no one knew what to do with it or completely ignored it as fault in character, back then. What happened, where'd they go?


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider] * 1
    #28555228 - 11/24/23 04:40 PM (2 months, 2 days ago)

Birdeatingspider is right.

Everyone leaves for different reasons. I have left for long periods. Wasn't suicidal. I was busy, or on a internet free period Or sometimes its gets to negative. There are lots of reasons.

It's a potential lawsuit also. For the site and licensed clinicians if it reached that point.

FYI everyone here, or  majority, are under an alias.

Being aware and kind goes a long long way.

Just be mindful of others and their space. Its a gift to have a person share their "stuff".  We should treat it like that.
Empathy and respect go far.


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Anonymous #3

Re: Suicidal? [Re: Anonymous #1] * 2
    #28557742 - 11/26/23 08:13 PM (2 months, 18 hours ago)

Posted this another thread but feels like it fits here too. Going anon, but if anyone is going through some shit I’d urge them to get it out in writing.

Monitor lizarding this thread and hope I can be of service to anyone else struggling

Treat yourselves with kindness

:heart:

Quote:

Anonymous #2 said:
This has been the hardest year of my life.

I’ve experienced great loss in the literal sense, and in terms of my friendships and long term relationship failing apart… I’ve been waking up filled with anxiety and living every day in survival mode, frantically clawing toward whatever I think will make it stop. All the while under increasing pressure to meet expectations in my career, relationships, and in life as a whole.

During this time I bottled the emotions from my first real struggle with my mental health, never asking for help until it all boiled over. Fought like hell to tough it out for a couple years, not wanting to burden others, and in doing so unknowingly shut out and neglected everything and everyone that mattered most to me. I feel totally fucking lost, like I just need a break, yet I wouldn’t know what to do if I had one. I can’t relax, and I’m filled with shame and guilt that I let everything get to this point.

She’s gone, the close friendships I once had are gone. I’ve seriously damaged my personal relationship with my employer, and am failing at was once my dream job. In a matter of like 1-2 years I have become that distant, isolated and unreliable person in what feels like all of my roles and relationships.

I put in a lot of work to maintain the illusion that I have my shit together, but the people closest to me are starting to see through my disguise. It’s really amazing how fast it can all fall apart. From the outside it would seem like I have it made, but it couldn’t be farther from the truth.

Sorry to hijack, but needed to vent and took the invitation.




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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: Anonymous #3] * 1
    #28558229 - 11/27/23 11:17 AM (2 months, 3 hours ago)

Thank you for adding this here, glad you did. Your action is actually a demonstration of what would make this thread great.

Instead of posting such a message and being at the mercy of whoever answers- if anyone, can be lessened if there were a visible safe space inhabited by those who feel similar and understand.


Anon3*, I keenly recall when it all caved in at once for me, and how suddenly everything was impossible.
Wish I could say it gets better.. but you get used to the extra weight.

Are you currently in therapy? It seems like you're in a dissociated state which is a natural protection from what is overwhelming.  It's protecting you from the multitude of 'stuff' on your plate.
With this I suggest yoga, it really grounds, puts you in touch with your body, and builds mastery and balance which can assist in self confidence, you might be struggling with, at the bottom of it all.

To repeat your words to you, keep talking- you're taking a brave, active step by doing so, and you will be heard by good company.
Take care and do some research on adrenals if you're not familiar- its what seems to be most problematic from a biological standpoint, when existing in survival mode over long duration.

Despite it all hitting the fan, you seem to have clarity, yet.
Don't let go, it's your way out.

Hope to see you around!
Remember to focus on your breathing:peace:


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


Edited by birdeatingspider (11/27/23 01:17 PM)


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider] * 2
    #28558280 - 11/27/23 12:01 PM (2 months, 2 hours ago)

Just to keep everyone apprised-

This is actively being looked at/worked on behind the scenes.
What we need from you all is input!


My vision for this thread is for those:

1. Suicidal but not currently a danger to self. Those with chronic illnesses, as example.
2. Been suicidal, live with it, have decided to stay for now, for various reasons.
3. Those who have lost, if feeling alright to join, may find comfort for their grief, or feel compelled to be a 'helper'.
4. The helpers who scoop up new posts in timely fashion. The helpers will be designated, and educated in how to respond if a crisis comes through.

Any additional ideas in these regards?

Any ideas in general?

A part 2 to come.
Let's hear feedback first, preferably in this thread, otherwise PMs are fine.
Thank You!!!


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #28558909 - 11/27/23 09:39 PM (1 month, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Maybe having like a discord or something. Something that is more actively monitored by the community would help more.

Problem is, as you said, one of training. I've participated in a few threads when I felt like my input could be helpful, but there are times where I don't think my input would be helpful. Even though that's probably not true, from an acute suicidal ideation standpoint, where just having someone, anyone, respond would probably be better than nothing.

I think you could reasonably expect a number of people to pass by the thread within a 24 hour period. If a few of them are...for lack of better term, given permission to respond to all such cases, even if they don't feel like they could contribute positively at the time, that would probably help. But you also need the right people. I wouldn't want to say something that makes it worse.

Otherwise, I'd add the basics. Stuff like removing weapons from your home, erecting obstacles to carrying out a plan. I've definitely had moments where the five minute drive to the store to buy the right chemicals was all I needed to stop myself.





We do have a discord.  We also have a health and wellbeing channel on it.  It's generally watched by people and would probably get a faster response than here.  It's still not a high traffic spot of the discord though.  Still might be hours for someone to notice or want to respond.


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quote]Urb said:
I know... Its fucked up... Ill fix it minyana..[/quote]


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: mndfreeze] * 1
    #28559336 - 11/28/23 11:11 AM (1 month, 30 days ago)

Well, I'm seeing several prevalent  potential 'helpers' vow to keep close eye on the thread. Again, we will be revising the OP by JSB- There will be no 'talking down from a ledge', here. So a few hour lapse between someone venting and another responding won't have the risk, or leeway for tragedy.

You would know better, I don't go on discord.
Still feel if we opened up the door to quicker/real time responses, it puts the site as a whole at risk to not only a loss that might have been avoided if passed off to professionals, but potentially culpable to liability.

Isn't discord a fast paced, not taken as seriously, and lacking long posts?
Because we are looking at an alternative direction when it comes to the depth of subject matter.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
- this is an open mic and I need more feedback and ideas!


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider] * 1
    #28559351 - 11/28/23 11:23 AM (1 month, 30 days ago)

Survivors of attempts or thoughts.
Hearing from people who made it.


--------------------
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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: loladoreen]
    #28559683 - 11/28/23 04:07 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Yes, added.
I think that would be the subgroup that was missing mention so far.

Keep it coming!


Not just who belongs, what does everyone feel this thread should accomplish? :takingnotes:


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #28559700 - 11/28/23 04:15 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

I think removing the label suicide or suicidal would be beneficial.
Removing any stigma.
I think it can be an open discussion to discussion emotional turmoil,mental health, etc.


--------------------
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #28559707 - 11/28/23 04:19 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Quote:

birdeatingspider said:
Well, I'm seeing several prevalent  potential 'helpers' vow to keep close eye on the thread. Again, we will be revising the OP by JSB- There will be no 'talking down from a ledge', here. So a few hour lapse between someone venting and another responding won't have the risk, or leeway for tragedy.

You would know better, I don't go on discord.
Still feel if we opened up the door to quicker/real time responses, it puts the site as a whole at risk to not only a loss that might have been avoided if passed off to professionals, but potentially culpable to liability.

Isn't discord a fast paced, not taken as seriously, and lacking long posts?
Because we are looking at an alternative direction when it comes to the depth of subject matter.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
- this is an open mic and I need more feedback and ideas!





Yeah I was just pointing out to kryptos that we do have the discord and it is an option for people who need a lil faster response than they might get here.  It's active enough and heavily moderated.  No shennigans occur in that channel.  General chat is definitely more lax and chaotic.


--------------------
Nothing says love like grannies prolapsed anus!

quote]Urb said:
I know... Its fucked up... Ill fix it minyana..[/quote]


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: mndfreeze]
    #28559758 - 11/28/23 05:02 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Ah gotcha.

Just curious, have you ever had/managed a crisis in your health wellbeing channel?
I know Discord hasn't been an available channel til somewhat recently.


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: loladoreen]
    #28559772 - 11/28/23 05:15 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Quote:

loladoreen said:
I think removing the label suicide or suicidal would be beneficial.
Removing any stigma.
I think it can be an open discussion to discussion emotional turmoil,mental health, etc.




I thought about that. However, avoiding the word reinforces the stigma, IMHO.

We can certainly include the above, and no one will be excluded- although I wonder if it would dilute the overall purpose of the thread.
We still need posts for the rest of PMW.

But am asking the rest of supporters to weigh in.
Lola, you have great ideas keep them coming!


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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Anonymous #3

Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider] * 1
    #28559774 - 11/28/23 05:16 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Thanks for replying to my post. I tried more than once to respond thoughtfully, but couldn’t figure out exactly what I was trying to convey. 

Not used to simply venting/asking for help just to do it, without some calculated reason or expectation attached to it. If that even makes sense. Probably somewhat of an imposter thing, in that I don’t think my situation necessarily warrants taking up space in a thread of this nature.

I was in a particularly bad space when I typed out that post but, with a clear head, I don’t feel I’m realistically at risk.

I greatly appreciate having been able to get some shit off my chest when I needed to, and be met with your kind responses. I’ll keep an eye on this thread, and will happily contribute in the future if I feel I’m able to help.

:heart:


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #28559780 - 11/28/23 05:19 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

A person can be suicidal and not realize. It is not always planned out.
In fact many suicides are spontaneous. Being able to have a welcoming and open arena would be more important than having a place that is only for suicidal thoughts.
Stigma halts healing.
Many have passed from successful suicide attempts that less than 24 hours prior were not suicidal.
Especially when substance use is involved. Things move quickly. Coming down? Hits hard.
Emotional trauma recovery posting would be more inviting.
Emotional dumping area
Need to talk? This is the place.


--------------------
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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: loladoreen]
    #28559792 - 11/28/23 05:28 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

There’s  a term for that.
The alluring abyss…
The concept of instantaneous death. Being presented to somebody. Maybe in the form of a pit they could throw themselves into. Is something that will just be acted on by people that have never presented or even thought about suicide before. Just because they weren’t aware of it. Didn’t mean they weren’t depressed.


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OnlineKryptos
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #28559852 - 11/28/23 06:10 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Quote:

birdeatingspider said:
Ah gotcha.

Just curious, have you ever had/managed a crisis in your health wellbeing channel?
I know Discord hasn't been an available channel til somewhat recently.




There have definitely been threads in this forum that seemed...significantly more serious than others. I imagine the only benefit of discord would be faster response time for such situations. I imagine there have been similar discussions on the discord. Drugs and mental health crises go hand in hand.

There does need to be a serious discussion about potential ramifications, though. I don't think it's likely to be a big issue, since, once again, drug use and mental health crises are like peanut butter and chocolate. I think a lot of this could be covered by good samaritan type laws, but someone might wanna loop in Enlil just in case.


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OnlineKryptos
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #28559861 - 11/28/23 06:16 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Quote:

birdeatingspider said:
Quote:

loladoreen said:
I think removing the label suicide or suicidal would be beneficial.
Removing any stigma.
I think it can be an open discussion to discussion emotional turmoil,mental health, etc.




I thought about that. However, avoiding the word reinforces the stigma, IMHO.

We can certainly include the above, and no one will be excluded- although I wonder if it would dilute the overall purpose of the thread.
We still need posts for the rest of PMW.

But am asking the rest of supporters to weigh in.
Lola, you have great ideas keep them coming!




This is interesting from a linguistic standpoint. Since suicide is a big no-no word, algorithmically speaking, the sudden prevalence of words like "self-deletion" to get around algorithmic content monitoring on big websites is causing an AI-driven shift in modern parlance.

Completely off topic, but fascinating nonetheless. I am interested to see how this plays out in the future. I remember reading a story of a mother putting her child (raised by youtube) to bed, and having the child sleepily mutter "Remember to like and subscribe" when she said goodnight. That had essentially replaced the traditional farewell in the mind of the child, as it is often the last spoken phrase on youtube videos.

So, perhaps adding modern euphemisms like "self-deletion" might be helpful in reaching a certain audience.


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