Home | Community | Message Board


Vaposhop
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,344
Loc: On the Border
faith
    #2855581 - 07/04/04 06:04 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Do religious beliefs have to be backed by scientific method? Where is the demarkation line from science to religion. For me religion is an act of faith. To try and back it up with data seems insecure. Should religion ignore science? (I don't think so...but the other way round is good) I have had Jehovah's Witness' try to get my attention by saying science has proven God exists (even gave me a book about it...very bogus science indeed)What is faith?


Edited by Huehuecoyotl (07/04/04 06:30 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: faith [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2855609 - 07/04/04 06:54 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

What is faith?







I've never been this naked

I don't think I could fake it

It's as I feared, I don't feel scared

I'd trick you if I did...

Can I tell you something

I Beeeeeellllllllliiiiiiieeeeeeeevvvvvvvve in someone


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 20,015
Re: faith [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2856029 - 07/04/04 12:38 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

faith is like a pose or a mental posture.

sometimes it adds dignity to things while at other times it can be stiff.

as an attitude or element of attitude it can be used to power some thing else without question.

I would use it sparingly since it functions in absence of questioning


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,344
Loc: On the Border
Re: faith [Re: redgreenvines]
    #2856151 - 07/04/04 01:34 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I beleive that the realm of faith concerns questions that cannot be answered any other way. If you can answer it with science faith is not needed.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: faith [Re: redgreenvines]
    #2856351 - 07/04/04 02:53 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

No prayer + no hope = dead marine hostage.

Prayer + faith = dead marine hostage.

I can feel the power...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineJacquesCousteau
Being.
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 7,825
Loc: Everywhere, Everytime.
Last seen: 8 months, 17 days
Re: faith [Re: Swami]
    #2856367 - 07/04/04 03:05 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

How can you know both of these to be true? Those scenarios were never played out. And if one was played out (which I'm sure it wasn't) then the other could not possibly have been played out.

I would think the only one you could know to be true would be:

Some faith + some lack of faith + some prayer + some lack of prayer = dead marine hostage.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,448
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: faith [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2856437 - 07/04/04 03:46 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Science is a "religion", in many ways. Science is an abstracted search for the mind of "God". Its methods differ from orthodox religion...but I think it seeks the same end as spirituality: to understand this world in which we are placed, and hopefully to achieve a glimpse of the mind of God.

Many scientists are also religious people. Being devoted to one does not necessarily exclude the other. In science, we use the tools God has given us in an attempt to understand Nature (the Universe, or "all-that-exists") and in understanding Nature we come closer to understanding where Nature came from (God).

I, and many others, have chosen to use Science in our quest because it allows reproducibility of observation/experiment. I can measure the strength of the EM force and tell everyone my results...they can then go perform the same measurement and come up with (hopefully) the same values. In this manner we are able to construct an image of Nature that is common to everyone.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 20,015
Re: faith [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2856472 - 07/04/04 04:02 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

really you are using belief and faith interchangeably.
belief is like science - the details have been discussed by the believers.

On the other hand Faith is for moving forward on the basis of your belief, or for standing up on the platform of belief without needing to question it.

scientists are very faithful about the body of scientific knowledge acquired - some things wont be questioned again. They are faithful so they can move on to the next thing.

what bugs me is when people without credibility charge others to have faith, so as to move them into a more controllable position.

Again Faith is for movement without questioning. Everyone uses it. It is not the same as belief and not particular to any cosmology, but it ascribes to some belief or another and gets back to the business of movement ASAP


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: faith [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #2856504 - 07/04/04 04:17 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

How can you know both of these to be true? Those scenarios were never played out.

You are right. As nearly every family prayed fervently for the release of their hostage and most all were killed anyways; this must be evidence of the fact that prayer and faith has a negative affect. (Using soley anecdote which is the most popular form of substantiation used on this board.)


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineJacquesCousteau
Being.
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 7,825
Loc: Everywhere, Everytime.
Last seen: 8 months, 17 days
Re: faith [Re: Swami]
    #2856654 - 07/04/04 05:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Well, my point was that since some did pray and some didn't and only one outcome was recorded, there is no comparison.

But since you used an anecdote, I'll assume you knew that...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBlueCoyote
Beyond
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 5,799
Loc: Between
Last seen: 4 days, 9 hours
Re: faith [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2856678 - 07/04/04 05:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Strangely, there is not much difference between faith and believe in the German language. You can use one word for both.

Nevertheless, I think faith of belive stands before any scientific research and discovery. First you esteem or think about what could or should be, where are the connections between things or events. What is the picture the happenings could fit into.
And then you try to figure it out, get the proove, the evidence, the obvious and objective concklusion. Common methods are science, for mainly physical matters and philosophy for spiritual or more abstract matters.
There exist interdisciplines like psychology or metaphysiks and so on.
But on the other hand, it could also be vice versa. With some proofs or evidences, you can get a totally different faith :smile:

But primary, I think, all these methods or disciplines, imho are there to justify the faith or believes of something imagined or felt before.

So religion without 'prooves' is like believe without evidence. This could lead to prejustice.
For religion there surely are subjective internal, psychological, social or interdisciplinary 'prooves' quite important but not solely.

This brings it to the edge of the knife-question: Would somebody put his live into the hands of pure believe/faith ? With physics thats mostly ridiculous. On the other hand, many prophets or holy-men did that. Even if they died for that.

I like the metaphor with the climbing-rope, somebody pointed out.

Sorry for the maybe occured further confusion :smile:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: faith [Re: trendal]
    #2856919 - 07/04/04 08:06 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Science is a method, not a religion.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,448
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: faith [Re: silversoul7]
    #2856925 - 07/04/04 08:09 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Religion is also a method, in many ways :wink:

My point was to show that the two (science and religion) do seek many of the same goals...I was not saying they equate eachother!


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: faith [Re: silversoul7]
    #2857706 - 07/05/04 02:38 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

The keyword is 'amphibious', both are a result of some form of reasoning.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineHooty
Reality isRelative

Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 2,467
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
Re: faith [Re: Zahid]
    #2858104 - 07/05/04 05:47 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

You shoul check out The eye of Shiva: Eastern mysticism and science by Amaury De Riencourt. It does really well explaining a lot of the correlations between modern science, especially physic and eastern mysticism and it's a hell of a read.


--------------------


Without love in the dream
It will never come true


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* A little essay on faith.... andrewss 406 3 12/15/08 05:59 AM
by C.M. Mann
* Faith...
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
Walter1496211 5,780 89 10/20/07 02:40 PM
by OrgoneConclusion
* Faith and Reason PedM 838 8 03/26/08 09:21 AM
by Lion
* FAITH in YOURSELF, and SHINING BRIGHT..... =) eMotionALLmotion 619 3 03/24/05 01:59 AM
by dr0mni
* The difference between Faith and Blind Faith.
( 1 2 all )
JacquesCousteau 3,681 38 03/20/05 07:24 PM
by gettinjiggywithit
* Faith Instead of Reason - An Article, Political
( 1 2 all )
usefulidiot 2,688 31 11/02/04 02:53 PM
by BlueCoyote
* Faith is Rememberance. tekramrepus 438 4 12/10/04 04:56 AM
by ninjapixie
* Proof that faith is a crock?
( 1 2 3 all )
GoBlue! 2,797 57 01/11/03 08:47 AM
by MarkostheGnostic

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, DividedQuantum
1,341 topic views. 0 members, 6 guests and 7 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Lil Shop Of Spores
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.064 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 14 queries.