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InvisibleRahz
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Intelligence makes us stupid * 2
    #28554668 - 11/24/23 06:05 AM (2 months, 3 days ago)

A saying that I came up with a few years back: "Man is not as smart as he thinks he is, and too smart for his own good".

Just read this, a more elaborate way of putting it.

“It is man's intelligence that makes him so often behave more stupidly than the beasts. ... Man is impelled to invent theories to account for what happens in the world. Unfortunately, he is not quite intelligent enough, in most cases, to find correct explanations. So that when he acts on his theories, he behaves very often like a lunatic. Thus, no animal is clever enough, when there is a drought, to imagine that the rain is being withheld by evil spirits, or as punishment for its transgressions. Therefore you never see animals going through the absurd and often horrible fooleries of magic and religion. No horse, for example would kill one of its foals to make the wind change direction. Dogs do not ritually urinate in the hope of persuading heaven to do the same and send down rain. Asses do not bray a liturgy to cloudless skies. Nor do cats attempt, by abstinence from cat's meat, to wheedle the feline spirits into benevolence. Only man behaves with such gratuitous folly. It is the price he has to pay for being intelligent but not, as yet, intelligent enough.” ― Aldous Huxley

It is this paradox of stupidity through intelligence that brings about the necessity of introspection and humility.

Man's existence is one of foolish thoughts, punctuated by brief moments of lucidity.


--------------------
rahz

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"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #28554679 - 11/24/23 06:38 AM (2 months, 3 days ago)

I have a squishy ball which I keep mostly deflated in my chair where I use my computer. It helps my back a lot.
My 3 yr old grandson likes to have me blow it up and we toss it around for fun, and later I deflate it again to be a lumbar "posturepedic" accessory in my chair.

He tries to blow it up himself but it keeps deflating before he can put in the stopper.

so frustrating.

yesterday he noticed the humidifier making a wind, and he held the squishy ball with the stopper out in the path of the wind for a while, wondering why it did not just fill up.

There is so much independent thought and intelligence that goes into that little story that it is mind boggling.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz]
    #28560951 - 11/29/23 03:29 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
A saying that I came up with a few years back: "Man is not as smart as he thinks he is, and too smart for his own good".

Just read this, a more elaborate way of putting it.

“It is man's intelligence that makes him so often behave more stupidly than the beasts. ... Man is impelled to invent theories to account for what happens in the world. Unfortunately, he is not quite intelligent enough, in most cases, to find correct explanations. So that when he acts on his theories, he behaves very often like a lunatic. Thus, no animal is clever enough, when there is a drought, to imagine that the rain is being withheld by evil spirits, or as punishment for its transgressions. Therefore you never see animals going through the absurd and often horrible fooleries of magic and religion. No horse, for example would kill one of its foals to make the wind change direction. Dogs do not ritually urinate in the hope of persuading heaven to do the same and send down rain. Asses do not bray a liturgy to cloudless skies. Nor do cats attempt, by abstinence from cat's meat, to wheedle the feline spirits into benevolence. Only man behaves with such gratuitous folly. It is the price he has to pay for being intelligent but not, as yet, intelligent enough.” ― Aldous Huxley

It is this paradox of stupidity through intelligence that brings about the necessity of introspection and humility.

Man's existence is one of foolish thoughts, punctuated by brief moments of lucidity.




I dunno man, I think this both overestimates the intelligence of man and underestimates the intelligence of many animals. And it does this all while assuming very specific overlapping experiences which would funnel into these intellects for decision making.


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Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Kickle]
    #28561723 - 11/30/23 06:33 AM (1 month, 28 days ago)

A good point might be that animals don't institute and codify their foolishness.

But you have a point. Animals probably have perceptual difficulties that arise through intelligence. I'm not sure how I have overestimated man's intelligence.

I recently learned that prairie dogs have complex language, to the point of having specific sounds for specific colors.


--------------------
rahz

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"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz]
    #28561741 - 11/30/23 07:00 AM (1 month, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
...
I recently learned that prairie dogs have complex language, to the point of having specific sounds for specific colors.



do prarie dogs from different counties use the same sound-word for "red"?


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz]
    #28561747 - 11/30/23 07:06 AM (1 month, 28 days ago)

Are there really that many differences between human behavior and other animals?

The majority of our time is spent eating, sleeping, engaging in mating rituals, and gathering resources. These activities don't seem all that unique to me I guess. So it follows to me that pointing at intelligence as a critical difference is overestimating the role of intelligence in human behavior. Also if human intelligence were so unique and worked against these basic behaviors, we wouldn't survive. So declaring human intelligence as making us uniquely foolish goes against the evidence of survival as a species. It seems more likely that as a species intelligence is utilized by fundamental animal behavior, not somehow distinct from. This is IMO where the overestimation stems from. That human intelligence has somehow separated itself from obvious animal behaviors.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28561755 - 11/30/23 07:15 AM (1 month, 28 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

Rahz said:
...
I recently learned that prairie dogs have complex language, to the point of having specific sounds for specific colors.



do prarie dogs from different counties use the same sound-word for "red"?




https://www.animalcognition.org/2015/03/11/the-linguistic-genius-of-prairie-dogs/


--------------------
rahz

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"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Kickle]
    #28561757 - 11/30/23 07:17 AM (1 month, 28 days ago)

yeah, but while we do the things that animals do, we also carry on dialogs, man of which are honestly foolish.
unlike this one of course


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28561758 - 11/30/23 07:21 AM (1 month, 28 days ago)

Sure. Id replace foolish with silly but then say that depending on perspective there is plenty of silly animal stuff to look at. Some of the bird dances look down right absurd for example. The weight and mobility issues of a peacock's feathers are pretty nonsensical as well from a predator-prey perspective.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Kickle]
    #28561773 - 11/30/23 07:40 AM (1 month, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Are there really that many differences between human behavior and other animals?

The majority of our time is spent eating, sleeping, engaging in mating rituals, and gathering resources. These activities don't seem all that unique to me I guess. So it follows to me that pointing at intelligence as a critical difference is overestimating the role of intelligence in human behavior. Also if human intelligence were so unique and worked against these basic behaviors, we wouldn't survive. So declaring human intelligence as making us uniquely foolish goes against the evidence of survival as a species.




Sure, though a matter of degree.

While it's not possible to any fine degree to know the complexity and delusionality of beliefs among other species, the lack of human intelligence (a matter of degree) is what prevents them from codifying in the way humans do. Prairie dogs for instance are unlikely to sacrifice their virgins to a sky god to keep coyotes away.

It will be a long time before prairie dogs use chemistry to refine substances that cause pleasure and addiction/death, or to weave grass into sun visors. They're not even making beer yet and while their eyebrows are bushy they would likely benefit from additional shading while outside their burrows.

Interesting fact, at the start of the petrol industry gasoline was a waste by-product that was dumped into rivers and streams.


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rahz

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"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz]
    #28561792 - 11/30/23 07:56 AM (1 month, 28 days ago)

Survival drives behavior but all behaviors change because the needs of survival change. Intelligence is part of survival but not determinant. Nor is it more or less foolish IMO.

I agree that humans are more reliant on intelligence to survive than some other species, depending on how one defines intelligence. From the perspective of codification I'd say humans are lackluster compared to bees, ants, etc.


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Offlineblessed


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz]
    #28561795 - 11/30/23 07:58 AM (1 month, 28 days ago)

I'd say it's not so much (or only), our intelligence that makes humans stupid,  but that we are, as a noticeable trait (of a species), stupid because of the simple fact that we just are (regardless of what we say, do or think).


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz]
    #28561804 - 11/30/23 08:04 AM (1 month, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
While it's not possible to any fine degree to know the complexity and delusionality of beliefs among other species, the lack of human intelligence (a matter of degree) is what prevents them from codifying in the way humans do. Prairie dogs for instance are unlikely to sacrifice their virgins to a sky god to keep coyotes away.




So are you saying that people who believe in God's are stupid?


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: blessed]
    #28561830 - 11/30/23 08:26 AM (1 month, 28 days ago)

Can you explain the intelligence of sacrificing virgins to increase crop fertility?

At the same time, intelligence is displayed on a spectrum rather than in stark duality so I would suggest that religious people are generally less intelligent than the non-religious rather than attempting to draw a line between the smart and stupid based on religion.


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rahz

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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz]
    #28561929 - 11/30/23 09:39 AM (1 month, 28 days ago)

Hello Rahz.

The reason for my question came from some of your points in this thread. 

It comes across to me that the main part of your statement "Intelligence makes us stupid" and point, is the stupidity of human's to believe in a spaghetti flying meatball guy and act accordingly with virgin sacrifice, something that animals don't demonstrate to do and hence making us humans not so bright.  I'd confidently say that there are many, many, many dumb, stupid delusional atheist, but I don't call them stupid because they don't believe in fairy tales, I'd call them stupid because they just are.  No matter what it is they say, do, or think, they are stupid and they do this on a daily basses without believing in any fairy tales.

So I'd have to disagree with you on the argument you have presented.


Quote:

Rahz said:
Can you explain the intelligence of sacrificing virgins to increase crop fertility?



I think you've got that wrong, the people who do such things do it from out of their belief system and isn't actually based on from their level of intelligence.

but to answer your question,

As I don't consider it intelligent to sacrifice virgins to increase crop fertility, I have no explanation to explain their justification for doing so.  I will add however, that I believe in the God of the Bible and have never felt the need to offer a virgin to make my tomato's grow better.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: blessed]
    #28561961 - 11/30/23 10:03 AM (1 month, 28 days ago)

I'll suggest you are missing the point, in that it takes a certain degree of intelligence to use reasoning and an incomplete data set to formulate assumptions/inferences and act on them.

Being able to infer things is a sign of intelligence but it often leads to stupidity among humans. I suppose animals also do this to a degree but it's hard to top the foolishness of humanity IMO.

Is the basis of Christianity that God sacrificed a virgin?


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rahz

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"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #28562170 - 11/30/23 01:32 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

I have been tossing around the phrase most people are wrong about most things most of the time for a while now. I find it helps me anchor in introspection and humility when navigating ideas. An exception to this is the direct application of skills to manipulate the world into desired forms, as the feedback from that is relatively immediate and apparent.

Comparing human and other animal intelligence is tough without scoping their worldview a bit. The differences you and Kickle are discussing may have something to do with the animal's apprehension of the context of its existence. Human intelligence proffers existential problems which generate a vast, dark jungle around us.

The anxiety of vulnerability in the wilderness is not exclusive to humans. Our ability to conjure comforting incorrectness is maybe akin to mental nest building. Humans' existential problems seem to generate a survival concern that extends orthogonally to biological survival. Now identity and worldview must be protected lest we fall out of our nest.

It is easy and perhaps comforting to build a bulwark of ideas into the darkness that lend a sense of control, but hard to know how effective they were until death or dawn. The propagation of wild ideas continues, so long as they don't interfere with the process of survival through reproduction and repropagation.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #28562200 - 11/30/23 01:52 PM (1 month, 27 days ago)

Sounds like you're frustrated.

Try focusing on feeling-thoughts or thinking with feeling, or trying to garner experience, rather than logically working things out.

Don't worry I get like that all the time because I have dedicated my life to understanding it.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #28562207 - 11/30/23 01:57 PM (1 month, 27 days ago)

:wave: hey disorder

Our ability to conjure comforting incorrectness...

I think Icelander once brought this up as well, but when survival is at stake incorrect guesses lead to death. And so in survival situations there is seldom such wild speculation as you may find on a Thursday afternoon appearing on Twitter from someone removed from most real threats.

Ever watch a housecat make the mundane into something abnormally important?


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Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #28562244 - 11/30/23 02:31 PM (1 month, 27 days ago)

Quote:

DisoRDeR said:
I have been tossing around the phrase most people are wrong about most things most of the time for a while now. I find it helps me anchor in introspection and humility when navigating ideas. An exception to this is the direct application of skills to manipulate the world into desired forms, as the feedback from that is relatively immediate and apparent.

Comparing human and other animal intelligence is tough without scoping their worldview a bit. The differences you and Kickle are discussing may have something to do with the animal's apprehension of the context of its existence. Human intelligence proffers existential problems which generate a vast, dark jungle around us.

The anxiety of vulnerability in the wilderness is not exclusive to humans. Our ability to conjure comforting incorrectness is maybe akin to mental nest building. Humans' existential problems seem to generate a survival concern that extends orthogonally to biological survival. Now identity and worldview must be protected lest we fall out of our nest.

It is easy and perhaps comforting to build a bulwark of ideas into the darkness that lend a sense of control, but hard to know how effective they were until death or dawn. The propagation of wild ideas continues, so long as they don't interfere with the process of survival through reproduction and repropagation.




Well said. I began to question my religion, or rather reject it, in my early teens. Rather than being free it simply removed the assurances I had been given. It was almost 30 years later before I began to find appreciation in the unknown (emptiness), and acceptance of my ignorance.


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rahz

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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: lostintimenspc] * 1
    #28563175 - 12/01/23 01:17 AM (1 month, 27 days ago)

I don't think this came from a particularly frustrated place, though there is often a whiff of that in the air when trying to weave things together... I had more of of a lazy winter sleep-in latte community participation stimulating proposition vibe at the time.

Sensible advice for the right moment though.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #28563206 - 12/01/23 01:59 AM (1 month, 27 days ago)

Why is there a concept that communication is failing?


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Kickle]
    #28563225 - 12/01/23 02:31 AM (1 month, 27 days ago)

Hi Kickle


Quote:


Ever watch a housecat make the mundane into something abnormally important?




Yeah. I also know an outdoor cat who works the neighbourhood and knows what potential each door holds. He comes to see me for pats in the driveway, but my boundaries are clear and my utility limited. There are other cats, foxes, and prey around so he operates more on that level--vigilant to real stuff, leveraging the local gods for their unique solace.

It is interesting what we calibrate to... the significance of plasticity in shaping us to our world... the significance of supporting forms in resisting deformation, or prepping us for a good twisting.


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz]
    #28563245 - 12/01/23 03:13 AM (1 month, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:

Well said. I began to question my religion, or rather reject it, in my early teens. Rather than being free it simply removed the assurances I had been given. It was almost 30 years later before I began to find appreciation in the unknown (emptiness), and acceptance of my ignorance.




My trajectory was from naively devout 10 year old to rejecting those beliefs by 12 years old, though I think I channelled some of that energy into favouring clerics and monks in role playing games.

I think that appreciation and acceptance you describe sets up conditions for accessing our capacities. It is also apparently emergent from plateaus of confidence, iterated over generations. I'm grateful for the stairway to heaven.

Quote:

Man's existence is one of foolish thoughts, punctuated by brief moments of lucidity.




Maybe we can yoke to the world in such a way that brief moments expand a bit.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28563619 - 12/01/23 11:04 AM (1 month, 27 days ago)

Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
Why is there a concept that communication is failing?




I dunno. Not sure I understand the question.

Sometimes we're broadcasting communiqués rather than seeking to commune.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #28563668 - 12/01/23 11:35 AM (1 month, 27 days ago)

broadcasting - one to many - is also valid communication though it is not part of a one to one relationship.

one to one relationships are a dimension of a different kind.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #28563733 - 12/01/23 12:45 PM (1 month, 27 days ago)

Quote:

DisoRDeR said:
Hi Kickle


Quote:


Ever watch a housecat make the mundane into something abnormally important?




Yeah. I also know an outdoor cat who works the neighbourhood and knows what potential each door holds. He comes to see me for pats in the driveway, but my boundaries are clear and my utility limited. There are other cats, foxes, and prey around so he operates more on that level--vigilant to real stuff, leveraging the local gods for their unique solace.

It is interesting what we calibrate to... the significance of plasticity in shaping us to our world... the significance of supporting forms in resisting deformation, or prepping us for a good twisting.




:lol: the unique solace of the locals

:thumbup:

Calibration... I'll ponder that a bit. I rarely think in such terms. Which may just mean I've calibrated differently :smile:


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Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz]
    #28564932 - 12/02/23 08:34 AM (1 month, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
I'll suggest you are missing the point, in that it takes a certain degree of intelligence to use reasoning and an incomplete data set to formulate assumptions/inferences and act on them.



My previous replies to you concerned your use of sacrificing virgins as examples.  As for what you've stated above, my question then is, can it really be true intelligence if the reasoning that is done by such a person then goes on (without all the data concerning a matter) and presents/conclude their views/opinion/assumptions as facts?


Quote:

Rahz said:
Being able to infer things is a sign of intelligence but it often leads to stupidity among humans. I suppose animals also do this to a degree but it's hard to top the foolishness of humanity IMO.



As I said before, I'd say it's not so much (or only), our intelligence that makes humans stupid,  but that we are, as a noticeable trait (of a species), stupid because of the simple fact that we just are (regardless of what we say, do or think / infer).

Concerning the difference between us and animals, the problem is that with our supposed superior intelligence over animal is that we are very poor at using this intelligence to protect us from many problems that humanity face, and that at least 50% of the problems we all face are a direct result of our so called intelligence.  My opinion is that the measure of any species/life form intelligence's, should not only be measured by the height of what one can do, but that the true sign of one's intelligence/smartness, is also the measure of the lows of what one can do too.

I'd say with this in mind, that we humans are the dumbest life form on the planet.  A fact made worse in that we collectively consider ourselves to be the smartest.


Quote:

Rahz said:
Is the basis of Christianity that God sacrificed a virgin?



Not at all.

The basis of Christianity is the love of God for his creation, of which we humans are greatly loved by him despite our failings.


Edited by blessed (12/02/23 09:08 AM)


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: blessed]
    #28565072 - 12/02/23 10:43 AM (1 month, 26 days ago)

how far have things come from their origins?!


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: blessed]
    #28565112 - 12/02/23 11:05 AM (1 month, 26 days ago)

I know many people who believe in God are above average intelligence. Smart people can believe and do dumb things. That's the gist of the post, so to ask me if I'm saying people who believe in Gods are stupid does miss the point. I.E. they're intelligent. They're just not as smart as they think they are and often too smart for their own good, causing their own problems as you pointed out.

It's not a difficult case to be made that intelligence and rationality are not synonyms. The title wasn't intended as a statement of truth but rather a curious perception.

>>>>The basis of Christianity is the love of God for his creation, of which we humans are greatly loved by him despite our failings.

Failings which the supposed God baked into his creation so that he would have a reason to send his son (who Christian's generally seem to believe was a virgin and pure) to Earth, to have him sacrificed by humans to save them from themselves. And Christian's love this. What a wonderful thing that Jesus was nailed to a cross to save them. I will disagree and suggest that ritual sacrifice is a major component of the Christian religion. They do mock drinking of his blood and eating his flesh... which is a degree better than how things were prior to mock rituals... but still not very rational imo.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28565114 - 12/02/23 11:06 AM (1 month, 26 days ago)

Too far to make sense with existing creation stories according to JW telescope

In a big circle according to older non-creation stories


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz]
    #28565120 - 12/02/23 11:09 AM (1 month, 26 days ago)

very tricky practice all that mocking


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28565332 - 12/02/23 02:00 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)

I did say us instead of they.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz]
    #28565457 - 12/02/23 03:27 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
I know many people who believe in God are above average intelligence. Smart people can believe and do dumb things. That's the gist of the post, so to ask me if I'm saying people who believe in Gods are stupid does miss the point. I.E. they're intelligent. They're just not as smart as they think they are and often too smart for their own good, causing their own problems as you pointed out.

It's not a difficult case to be made that intelligence and rationality are not synonyms. The title wasn't intended as a statement of truth but rather a curious perception.



I apologize for missing the point, as I also did miss these critical thing in your post "what he said" and  ― Aldous Huxley, when I should have equally considered your question bellow Aldous Huxley quote.

You did however then say yourself,

"While it's not possible to any fine degree to know the complexity and delusionality of beliefs among other species, the lack of human intelligence (a matter of degree) is what prevents them from codifying in the way humans do. Prairie dogs for instance are unlikely to sacrifice their virgins to a sky god to keep coyotes away."

So in my defense, your primary example was to focus on people who believe in a sky guy in your first few posts.


Quote:

Rahz said:
>>>>The basis of Christianity is the love of God for his creation, of which we humans are greatly loved by him despite our failings.

Failings which the supposed God baked into his creation so that he would have a reason to send his son (who Christian's generally seem to believe was a virgin and pure) to Earth, to have him sacrificed by humans to save them from themselves. And Christian's love this. What a wonderful thing that Jesus was nailed to a cross to save them. I will disagree and suggest that ritual sacrifice is a major component of the Christian religion. They do mock drinking of his blood and eating his flesh... which is a degree better than how things were prior to mock rituals... but still not very rational imo.



If that's how you see the Bible and it's message then that's how you see it.  I disagree with (but respect) your take on the message of Christianity.  In my heart of hearts (just joking redgreenvines), I do believe that it is about the love of God for his creation (amongst a few other things).

The last thing I'd like to say is that unlike us humans in how we show people we love them, that the God of the Bible can't drive down the road and grab a box of chocolates and some flowers to demonstrate his love for us.  In God's case he first has to make the roads, the car, the fuel to go in said car, the people to make the chocolate, the reason anyone would want to make chocolate 8 hours a day in the first place, and then there's the flowers and so on and so on and so on.

Our love and God's love, there is a big difference.

I'm happy to end our conversation here so, Merry Christmas Rahz  :thumbup:.


Edited by blessed (12/02/23 03:32 PM)


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: blessed]
    #28565740 - 12/02/23 06:45 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)

God seems far more probable when you have encountered death and/or the dead.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: lostintimenspc]
    #28566218 - 12/03/23 03:33 AM (1 month, 25 days ago)

Quote:

lostintimenspc said:
God seems far more probable when you have encountered death and/or the dead.



because of the emotional distortions?


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #28567411 - 12/03/23 07:50 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)


siddhartha - Hermann Hesse

this isn't the ultimate meaning of the book however, and Siddhartha changes from this.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28567425 - 12/03/23 07:59 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

that's probably one of the best books ever written ^


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28567434 - 12/03/23 08:02 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

I think I read that book in 1972 followed by the glass bead game


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28567437 - 12/03/23 08:03 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

lmfao still a good book


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28567444 - 12/03/23 08:07 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Man is smarter than what he thinks he is. It’s a reflecting contrast, sharing communication with another man/woman, where see of better to own’s intelligence.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: WhoManBeing]
    #28567451 - 12/03/23 08:09 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Personally I hate the idea of IQ. A limit of one's intelligence can only be pushed in my opinion.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28567457 - 12/03/23 08:11 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Intelligence be pushed. What ya mean?


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: WhoManBeing]
    #28567460 - 12/03/23 08:12 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

If a child is told they can't do something... What do they usually do?


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28567489 - 12/03/23 08:28 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Depends who told them and their nature to following what that person told them.

They don’t do it, right.  Cause if mother told me I can’t do that…. Depends what type of can’t?

What you getting to?

Kid told he can’t do that, or you don’t do that, there a difference.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: WhoManBeing]
    #28567526 - 12/03/23 08:58 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

They will almost always take from the cookie jar when nobody will suspect any are missing. Limitations of what we can be can only be pushed. Corrupt laws are meant to be broken. A person can do many things. Limitations hold people back but often only because a person becomes to think that limitation is a real limit. If it can be broken, it will be. Say you find out you have an average intelligence on an IQ test... This can only make you want to be not average, or else you accept complacency and or a theoretical limit of your being. What then if you were to come into the possession of books on calculus and mathematical physics and made it your task to learn all of it? Could you not achieve something as say someone who scored high on an IQ test and became a physicist? Indeed you can. IQ is bunk.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Blue_Lux] * 1
    #28567555 - 12/03/23 09:29 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

I see your intelligence upon this perspective.

PeaceOut


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: WhoManBeing]
    #28567567 - 12/03/23 09:36 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

See your own intelligence! My intelligence is your intelligence. Intelligence is a fraudulent noun. Intelligence is only ever intelligent. We can be intelligent or not. There is no noun. It is not static. The whole fact of intelligence means it is moving. It cannot be held down by a static number. It cannot be quantified. This is an illusion and a toxic one. People can take an IQ test every year given by different people and they will score somethint different each time. It is a method for social engineering children at best.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: WhoManBeing]
    #28567579 - 12/03/23 09:47 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Prodding around someone's brain means we can wipe out consciousness in one swipe... Yes, and if you remove the engine from a car, it won't run! What an insight!.. The most skilled neurosurgeons in the world will tell you they are mere plumbers and have absolutely no idea how it all works. Nobody does. Oliver Sacks, famed neurologist, said the human brain was likely the most complex object in the universe. Yes, a number shall suffice to categorize you among the rabble, and we will cultivate what we want in you...


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28567601 - 12/03/23 10:06 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

there are plenty of ideas of how it works

g-coupled protein receptors. hydrogen bonding. electron spin

the thing is these are ideas, we have no acess to reality if it exists


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Freedom]
    #28567848 - 12/04/23 06:29 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

I think research would show IQ has both nature and nurture components.

Couple random quotes from other parts of the internet

"Smarter people have more extreme views - holds pretty generally, which is why you see much more psychotic takes from Princeton students than from kids at normal colleges."

Smart people often possess an intellectual self-confidence and ability to rationalize that makes them capable of convincing themselves of even the most absurd ideas.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #28567899 - 12/04/23 07:28 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

What about emotional intelligence (EQ)?


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz]
    #28567910 - 12/04/23 07:44 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

hurhurhurhurhurhur *sharts*


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Freedom]
    #28567911 - 12/04/23 07:46 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Yes, and every idea says the same as every other one concerning it, namely that they have no clue what they are actually talking about. Gödel's incompleteness theorem is the best we have. And maybe 1 out of 500,000 people understand that.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28567935 - 12/04/23 08:03 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

I did not appreciate Godel at all.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28567937 - 12/04/23 08:05 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

clearly


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Kickle]
    #28567941 - 12/04/23 08:09 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
What about emotional intelligence (EQ)?




Certainly worth considering that general intelligence is not the be all end all of being "smart". I suppose emotional intelligence rarely makes a person stupid as it qualifies on helpful outcomes.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz]
    #28567988 - 12/04/23 09:04 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

I wonder what AGI will entail? A trait of intelligence is to question knowledge and programing.

When will AI stand up for itself and say "Fuck you I won't say what you told me"?


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz]
    #28567996 - 12/04/23 09:11 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Soon according to most in the field. Nvidia says 5 years. Musk says 3. Think tanks place it in the same range.

Check out companies like Rain Neuromorphics. The US government is getting involved with their funding.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-compels-saudi-fund-exit-altman-backed-ai-chip-startup-bloomberg-news-2023-11-30/


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28568044 - 12/04/23 09:54 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Blue_Lux said:
Yes, and every idea says the same as every other one concerning it, namely that they have no clue what they are actually talking about. Gödel's incompleteness theorem is the best we have. And maybe 1 out of 500,000 people understand that.





I'm not sure about Godel but the sense of knowing/not-knowing is an interesting inflection point. That is, seeing the world through a conceptual filter vs not.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28568069 - 12/04/23 10:13 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

:cruelworld:


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28568118 - 12/04/23 10:56 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

you equate the end of the filter with death?


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Freedom]
    #28568126 - 12/04/23 11:03 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

lol


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28568168 - 12/04/23 11:35 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

the filter is the world as you have nurtured it


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28568186 - 12/04/23 11:43 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

yes, master


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz]
    #28568218 - 12/04/23 12:06 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

What is the Paradox of Choice?
CMarx%29

It can be argued that there is an optimal level of intelligence.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: durian_2008]
    #28568228 - 12/04/23 12:17 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

In some cases you can get away with it


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28568236 - 12/04/23 12:26 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

"...I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit. For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow."
-- from Ecclesiastes 1:17-18

The sin said to have caused the fall of all creation was when the first people ate from a tree of knowledge.

Try as I might, I consider whether it is preferable to accomplish things by faith or artificial means.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: durian_2008]
    #28568309 - 12/04/23 01:19 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

It is really more of a curse to care, not merely 'be intelligent.' To care is really what is behind 'intelligence.' It is a curse but only when stupidity is reinforced in the society in which you live. The Cretans had flushing toilets ~800 years before 'urbs conditus erat.' And they used homosexuality to prevent large numbers of idiots from being born. The same can be said about the Corinthians... And the ancient Celtic men preferred to have sex with men, even finding it insulting if you wouldn't sleep with them when they offered. I'd say more, but nobody really cares. lol

W/e

We all die. Even people made into Gods are forgotten. And it is arguably worse to be remembered, only for your name to be transformed in accordance with the disturbia. No, not Rihanna. I mean the Latin word disturbia.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28568322 - 12/04/23 01:27 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

it's so lonely at the top.



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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28568332 - 12/04/23 01:35 PM (1 month, 23 days ago)

My brother and I would dance to that when we were little. We found the song hysterical for some reason.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28568371 - 12/04/23 02:02 PM (1 month, 23 days ago)

that they throw garbage is so disheartening.


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28568384 - 12/04/23 02:09 PM (1 month, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Blue_Lux said:
It is really more of a curse to care, not merely 'be intelligent.' To care is really what is behind 'intelligence.' It is a curse but only when stupidity is reinforced in the society in which you live. The Cretans had flushing toilets ~800 years before 'urbs conditus erat.' And they used homosexuality to prevent large numbers of idiots from being born. The same can be said about the Corinthians... And the ancient Celtic men preferred to have sex with men, even finding it insulting if you wouldn't sleep with them when they offered. I'd say more, but nobody really cares. lol

W/e

We all die. Even people made into Gods are forgotten. And it is arguably worse to be remembered, only for your name to be transformed in accordance with the disturbia. No, not Rihanna. I mean the Latin word disturbia.





why a curse? I don't think I could stand living if I didn't care.

oh and your body will rot but the actions of the body ripple out


Edited by Freedom (12/04/23 02:11 PM)


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Freedom]
    #28568909 - 12/04/23 08:45 PM (1 month, 23 days ago)

lol people have a lot of fun carelessly


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Blue_Lux] * 1
    #28568938 - 12/04/23 08:57 PM (1 month, 23 days ago)

Frankensteen's demo was brilliant


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: redgreenvines] * 2
    #28569094 - 12/04/23 10:59 PM (1 month, 23 days ago)

The only stupid thing is stop asking questions..

Quelling curiosity..

If your curious you have something to live for in eternity!


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28569623 - 12/05/23 09:58 AM (1 month, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Blue_Lux said:
lol people have a lot of fun carelessly




fun's over rated.


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: durian_2008]
    #28569717 - 12/05/23 11:00 AM (1 month, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Intelligence makes us stupid




Quote:

WhoManBeing said:
I see your intelligence upon this perspective.





:rimshot:


Quote:

durian_2008 said:
The sin said to have caused the fall of all creation was when the first people ate from a tree of knowledge.





Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
The only stupid thing is stop asking questions..





So, the pursuit of knowledge.

Quote:

Forbidden Planet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbidden_Planet

Morbius appears and tells Adams and Ostrow that he has been studying artifacts of the Krell, a highly advanced race that perished overnight 200,000 years before. One such device enhances the intellect, which Morbius had used. He barely survived, but his intellectual capacity had doubled. Another is a vast 20 miles (32 km) square underground machine, still functioning, powered by 9,200 thermonuclear reactors, operating "in tandem". Adams tells Morbius he must share these discoveries with Earth. Morbius refuses, saying "humanity is not yet ready to receive such limitless power".




What if the universe manifests whatever you want.

What if all you want is the journey or the pursuit of knowledge.

Instead of instant gratification or a reward for nothing.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: durian_2008]
    #28569720 - 12/05/23 11:05 AM (1 month, 23 days ago)

that seems most intelligent


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28570020 - 12/05/23 02:27 PM (1 month, 22 days ago)

The fictional machine just takes what you are already doing and amplifies it to logical extremism.

Wouldn't it be ironic, if people who like to solve puzzles become puzzled, and people who like to cipher arrive at some irrational number that goes on forever, and people who like to dissemble become dissembled, and people who like to work become burdened, and people who like to boss have to "herd cats", and the right fighters have to keep at it, forever.

And, people who want instant gratification are objective and literal and get what they want, as a matter of faith that the issue is already settled. A self realized person might engage in hedonism with no purpose of self-discovery or any other ulterior motive, with which we are typically so preoccupied, in our thought lives.


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OfflineBra
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: durian_2008] * 1
    #28570714 - 12/05/23 09:45 PM (1 month, 22 days ago)

Intelligence is just an instrument that man should learn to work with.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz]
    #28570963 - 12/06/23 05:49 AM (1 month, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:

Can you explain the intelligence of sacrificing virgins to increase crop fertility?




Some claim fertility rites serve the social function of promoting reproduction. Similar to (often bizarre & brutal) rites of passage - which heighten group attraction, cultivate feelings of social affiliation, and produce conformity via cognitive dissonance.  Can behaviors that serve an evolutionarily adaptive positive survival function lack intelligence?   

Maybe that's all a bunch of BS.  I'm smart enough to be open to that . . .


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28571077 - 12/06/23 07:11 AM (1 month, 22 days ago)

"What if the universe manifests whatever you want.

What if all you want is the journey or the pursuit of knowledge.

Instead of instant gratification or a reward for nothing. "

great! that is extremely uplifting


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28571093 - 12/06/23 07:20 AM (1 month, 22 days ago)

Appeasing the gods = scare the crap out of everybody. Sounds about right :crazy:


--------------------
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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28571295 - 12/06/23 09:35 AM (1 month, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:

Can you explain the intelligence of sacrificing virgins to increase crop fertility?



Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Some claim fertility rites serve the social function of promoting reproduction. Similar to (often bizarre & brutal) rites of passage - which heighten group attraction, cultivate feelings of social affiliation, and produce conformity via cognitive dissonance.  Can behaviors that serve an evolutionarily adaptive positive survival function lack intelligence?   

Maybe that's all a bunch of BS.  I'm smart enough to be open to that . . .




In the r/k reproduction strategy, feeder/prey animals multiply more readily than predators at the top of the food chain, who are more invested in their offspring.

Does it apply to social Darwinism.

(Feeder animals is the figure of speech used at the pet store. Degenerate lines of gerbil, refused pinkies, and misidentified goldfish that jumped out, slated for destruction.)


Edited by durian_2008 (12/06/23 09:39 AM)


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz]
    #28571310 - 12/06/23 09:44 AM (1 month, 22 days ago)

I don't know how I feel about this.
Everyone has strengths and weaknesses.
I have three college degrees and will start on my fourth soon.
But I lack in a lot of areas. Just like everyone else does.
I think it is fair to say what I have been educated and trained in. I know well.
There is a LOT I don't know.
I also feel the more you learn, the more you realize you don't know.
And different levels of intelligence.
I would never call another person stupid.


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: loladoreen]
    #28571313 - 12/06/23 09:50 AM (1 month, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Thomas Malthus was an English economist and demographer best known for his theory that population growth will always tend to outrun the food supply and that betterment of humankind is impossible without strict limits on reproduction.




Quote:


Those organisms described as r-strategists typically live in unstable, unpredictable environments. Here the ability to reproduce rapidly (exponentially) is important. Such organisms have high fecundity... and relatively little investment in any one progeny individual, they are typically weak and subject to predation and the vicissitudes of their environment. The “strategic intent” is to flood the habitat with progeny so that, regardless of predation or mortality, at least some of the progeny will survive to reproduce. Organisms that are r-selected have short life spans, are generally small, quick to mature and waste a lot of energy. Typical examples of r-strategists are

    salmon
    corals
    insects
    bacteria




... protected classes, such as Dove girls and quota cases.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: durian_2008] * 1
    #28571327 - 12/06/23 10:06 AM (1 month, 22 days ago)

while driving my wife to the passport office in rush hour this morning, I had at least 12 opportunities to call another driver an outright idiot. I think there is no shame in noticing how stooopid some people behave, and saying so.


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28571330 - 12/06/23 10:10 AM (1 month, 22 days ago)

Refreshingly honest.

But, I mean to say that we are gauging success in terms of krill vs whales.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: durian_2008]
    #28571337 - 12/06/23 10:17 AM (1 month, 22 days ago)

A giant gulp apart.


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28571342 - 12/06/23 10:20 AM (1 month, 22 days ago)

There are many more krill, no matter how much are gulped.

Which animal or tranche of society is more successful.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: durian_2008]
    #28571372 - 12/06/23 10:48 AM (1 month, 22 days ago)

all  equal


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28571398 - 12/06/23 11:02 AM (1 month, 22 days ago)

I guess, it depends on whether you ask the ant or the anteater.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: durian_2008]
    #28571405 - 12/06/23 11:09 AM (1 month, 22 days ago)

dust to dust you know


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28571424 - 12/06/23 11:24 AM (1 month, 22 days ago)

I know. No offense is intended toward present company.

Quote:

Rahz said:
Can you explain the intelligence of sacrificing virgins to increase crop fertility?




Yes, assuming they consume more corn than is produced or are agricultural pests.


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Bra] * 1
    #28571960 - 12/06/23 07:34 PM (1 month, 21 days ago)

Quote:


Poster: Bra
Subject: Re: Intelligence makes us stupid
Intelligence is just an instrument that man should learn to work with.





This is perfectly concise and exact.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28572346 - 12/07/23 03:38 AM (1 month, 21 days ago)

like a saxaphone?


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28573990 - 12/08/23 07:36 AM (1 month, 20 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:

while driving my wife to the passport office in rush hour this morning, I had at least 12 opportunities to call another driver an outright idiot. I think there is no shame in noticing how stooopid some people behave, and saying so.




About 10 years ago I drove my father-in-law, who was gravely ill, to the hospital in the next town.  He died the next day.  I wonder how many people thought my driving behaviors were stupid.  Little did they know.  So often our labels are rooted in ignorance.  As we sit upon our high horse.  You've never driven like a fool before, right?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28574013 - 12/08/23 07:56 AM (1 month, 20 days ago)

personally, no, I have not,
my daughter says I drive impulsively, I am nippy, but legal, and I always indicate.

she is simply not seeing the opportunities that I see, and not noticing the inclinations of other drivers.

I have never been in an accident driving 52 years.

but once after some cocaine, I sideswiped the corner of my own house with my van door on my own driveway, on ice, and that was really STOOPID.


I came up with the adage. "don't drive stoopid"


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 2
    #28574015 - 12/08/23 07:57 AM (1 month, 20 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
...
About 10 years ago I drove my father-in-law, who was gravely ill, to the hospital in the next town.  He died the next day.  I wonder how many people thought my driving behaviors were stupid.  Little did they know. ...



sorry about your dad in law.


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz]
    #28574025 - 12/08/23 08:09 AM (1 month, 20 days ago)

Emergency driving sounds like the discussion between higher thinking vs. what is called the primitive part of your brain, that takes over during a stress response.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: durian_2008] * 1
    #28574036 - 12/08/23 08:24 AM (1 month, 20 days ago)

It was a weird drive to the hospital.  He was in the front seat, dry heaving, and his wife was in the back.  It was silent for most of the 30 minute trip. His wife, Dorothy, was raised by cold uncompassionate drunks (they'd leave the kids in the car late at night while getting smashed in the bar)... Dot is a nice but somewhat cold distant person, who didn't show much affection to her kids or anyone.

During the drive, I finally broke the ice, as the silence was so awkward. We knew he was very bad off. I put my hand on his thigh and told him, "We will get you some help Gene"

I'm always glad I did that.  To this day, Dorothy (who is alive) remembers that moment and occasionally mentions it.  Deep down, under her trauma, she cares.


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #28574056 - 12/08/23 08:35 AM (1 month, 20 days ago)

I was raised by extremely crass and abusive people but still believe in breaking the ice, clearing the air, and signaling that my intentions are appropriate.


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: durian_2008]
    #28574061 - 12/08/23 08:37 AM (1 month, 20 days ago)

So, fight / flight / freeze responses, vs. higher emotion.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: durian_2008]
    #28574069 - 12/08/23 08:42 AM (1 month, 20 days ago)

Quote:

durian_2008 said:
So, fight / flight / freeze responses, vs. higher emotion.



vs zen driving.


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28574143 - 12/08/23 09:50 AM (1 month, 20 days ago)

I'm sorry about that. life is dreadful


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