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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: lostintimenspc] * 1
    #28563175 - 12/01/23 01:17 AM (1 month, 27 days ago)

I don't think this came from a particularly frustrated place, though there is often a whiff of that in the air when trying to weave things together... I had more of of a lazy winter sleep-in latte community participation stimulating proposition vibe at the time.

Sensible advice for the right moment though.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #28563206 - 12/01/23 01:59 AM (1 month, 27 days ago)

Why is there a concept that communication is failing?


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Kickle]
    #28563225 - 12/01/23 02:31 AM (1 month, 27 days ago)

Hi Kickle


Quote:


Ever watch a housecat make the mundane into something abnormally important?




Yeah. I also know an outdoor cat who works the neighbourhood and knows what potential each door holds. He comes to see me for pats in the driveway, but my boundaries are clear and my utility limited. There are other cats, foxes, and prey around so he operates more on that level--vigilant to real stuff, leveraging the local gods for their unique solace.

It is interesting what we calibrate to... the significance of plasticity in shaping us to our world... the significance of supporting forms in resisting deformation, or prepping us for a good twisting.


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz]
    #28563245 - 12/01/23 03:13 AM (1 month, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:

Well said. I began to question my religion, or rather reject it, in my early teens. Rather than being free it simply removed the assurances I had been given. It was almost 30 years later before I began to find appreciation in the unknown (emptiness), and acceptance of my ignorance.




My trajectory was from naively devout 10 year old to rejecting those beliefs by 12 years old, though I think I channelled some of that energy into favouring clerics and monks in role playing games.

I think that appreciation and acceptance you describe sets up conditions for accessing our capacities. It is also apparently emergent from plateaus of confidence, iterated over generations. I'm grateful for the stairway to heaven.

Quote:

Man's existence is one of foolish thoughts, punctuated by brief moments of lucidity.




Maybe we can yoke to the world in such a way that brief moments expand a bit.


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28563619 - 12/01/23 11:04 AM (1 month, 27 days ago)

Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
Why is there a concept that communication is failing?




I dunno. Not sure I understand the question.

Sometimes we're broadcasting communiqués rather than seeking to commune.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #28563668 - 12/01/23 11:35 AM (1 month, 27 days ago)

broadcasting - one to many - is also valid communication though it is not part of a one to one relationship.

one to one relationships are a dimension of a different kind.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #28563733 - 12/01/23 12:45 PM (1 month, 27 days ago)

Quote:

DisoRDeR said:
Hi Kickle


Quote:


Ever watch a housecat make the mundane into something abnormally important?




Yeah. I also know an outdoor cat who works the neighbourhood and knows what potential each door holds. He comes to see me for pats in the driveway, but my boundaries are clear and my utility limited. There are other cats, foxes, and prey around so he operates more on that level--vigilant to real stuff, leveraging the local gods for their unique solace.

It is interesting what we calibrate to... the significance of plasticity in shaping us to our world... the significance of supporting forms in resisting deformation, or prepping us for a good twisting.




:lol: the unique solace of the locals

:thumbup:

Calibration... I'll ponder that a bit. I rarely think in such terms. Which may just mean I've calibrated differently :smile:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlineblessed


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz]
    #28564932 - 12/02/23 08:34 AM (1 month, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
I'll suggest you are missing the point, in that it takes a certain degree of intelligence to use reasoning and an incomplete data set to formulate assumptions/inferences and act on them.



My previous replies to you concerned your use of sacrificing virgins as examples.  As for what you've stated above, my question then is, can it really be true intelligence if the reasoning that is done by such a person then goes on (without all the data concerning a matter) and presents/conclude their views/opinion/assumptions as facts?


Quote:

Rahz said:
Being able to infer things is a sign of intelligence but it often leads to stupidity among humans. I suppose animals also do this to a degree but it's hard to top the foolishness of humanity IMO.



As I said before, I'd say it's not so much (or only), our intelligence that makes humans stupid,  but that we are, as a noticeable trait (of a species), stupid because of the simple fact that we just are (regardless of what we say, do or think / infer).

Concerning the difference between us and animals, the problem is that with our supposed superior intelligence over animal is that we are very poor at using this intelligence to protect us from many problems that humanity face, and that at least 50% of the problems we all face are a direct result of our so called intelligence.  My opinion is that the measure of any species/life form intelligence's, should not only be measured by the height of what one can do, but that the true sign of one's intelligence/smartness, is also the measure of the lows of what one can do too.

I'd say with this in mind, that we humans are the dumbest life form on the planet.  A fact made worse in that we collectively consider ourselves to be the smartest.


Quote:

Rahz said:
Is the basis of Christianity that God sacrificed a virgin?



Not at all.

The basis of Christianity is the love of God for his creation, of which we humans are greatly loved by him despite our failings.


Edited by blessed (12/02/23 09:08 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: blessed]
    #28565072 - 12/02/23 10:43 AM (1 month, 26 days ago)

how far have things come from their origins?!


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: blessed]
    #28565112 - 12/02/23 11:05 AM (1 month, 26 days ago)

I know many people who believe in God are above average intelligence. Smart people can believe and do dumb things. That's the gist of the post, so to ask me if I'm saying people who believe in Gods are stupid does miss the point. I.E. they're intelligent. They're just not as smart as they think they are and often too smart for their own good, causing their own problems as you pointed out.

It's not a difficult case to be made that intelligence and rationality are not synonyms. The title wasn't intended as a statement of truth but rather a curious perception.

>>>>The basis of Christianity is the love of God for his creation, of which we humans are greatly loved by him despite our failings.

Failings which the supposed God baked into his creation so that he would have a reason to send his son (who Christian's generally seem to believe was a virgin and pure) to Earth, to have him sacrificed by humans to save them from themselves. And Christian's love this. What a wonderful thing that Jesus was nailed to a cross to save them. I will disagree and suggest that ritual sacrifice is a major component of the Christian religion. They do mock drinking of his blood and eating his flesh... which is a degree better than how things were prior to mock rituals... but still not very rational imo.


--------------------
rahz

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"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28565114 - 12/02/23 11:06 AM (1 month, 26 days ago)

Too far to make sense with existing creation stories according to JW telescope

In a big circle according to older non-creation stories


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz]
    #28565120 - 12/02/23 11:09 AM (1 month, 26 days ago)

very tricky practice all that mocking


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28565332 - 12/02/23 02:00 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)

I did say us instead of they.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Offlineblessed


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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz]
    #28565457 - 12/02/23 03:27 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
I know many people who believe in God are above average intelligence. Smart people can believe and do dumb things. That's the gist of the post, so to ask me if I'm saying people who believe in Gods are stupid does miss the point. I.E. they're intelligent. They're just not as smart as they think they are and often too smart for their own good, causing their own problems as you pointed out.

It's not a difficult case to be made that intelligence and rationality are not synonyms. The title wasn't intended as a statement of truth but rather a curious perception.



I apologize for missing the point, as I also did miss these critical thing in your post "what he said" and  ― Aldous Huxley, when I should have equally considered your question bellow Aldous Huxley quote.

You did however then say yourself,

"While it's not possible to any fine degree to know the complexity and delusionality of beliefs among other species, the lack of human intelligence (a matter of degree) is what prevents them from codifying in the way humans do. Prairie dogs for instance are unlikely to sacrifice their virgins to a sky god to keep coyotes away."

So in my defense, your primary example was to focus on people who believe in a sky guy in your first few posts.


Quote:

Rahz said:
>>>>The basis of Christianity is the love of God for his creation, of which we humans are greatly loved by him despite our failings.

Failings which the supposed God baked into his creation so that he would have a reason to send his son (who Christian's generally seem to believe was a virgin and pure) to Earth, to have him sacrificed by humans to save them from themselves. And Christian's love this. What a wonderful thing that Jesus was nailed to a cross to save them. I will disagree and suggest that ritual sacrifice is a major component of the Christian religion. They do mock drinking of his blood and eating his flesh... which is a degree better than how things were prior to mock rituals... but still not very rational imo.



If that's how you see the Bible and it's message then that's how you see it.  I disagree with (but respect) your take on the message of Christianity.  In my heart of hearts (just joking redgreenvines), I do believe that it is about the love of God for his creation (amongst a few other things).

The last thing I'd like to say is that unlike us humans in how we show people we love them, that the God of the Bible can't drive down the road and grab a box of chocolates and some flowers to demonstrate his love for us.  In God's case he first has to make the roads, the car, the fuel to go in said car, the people to make the chocolate, the reason anyone would want to make chocolate 8 hours a day in the first place, and then there's the flowers and so on and so on and so on.

Our love and God's love, there is a big difference.

I'm happy to end our conversation here so, Merry Christmas Rahz  :thumbup:.


Edited by blessed (12/02/23 03:32 PM)


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Offlinelostintimenspc
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: blessed]
    #28565740 - 12/02/23 06:45 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)

God seems far more probable when you have encountered death and/or the dead.


--------------------
LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life'

Your life, your call.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: lostintimenspc]
    #28566218 - 12/03/23 03:33 AM (1 month, 25 days ago)

Quote:

lostintimenspc said:
God seems far more probable when you have encountered death and/or the dead.



because of the emotional distortions?


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #28567411 - 12/03/23 07:50 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)


siddhartha - Hermann Hesse

this isn't the ultimate meaning of the book however, and Siddhartha changes from this.


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28567425 - 12/03/23 07:59 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

that's probably one of the best books ever written ^


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28567434 - 12/03/23 08:02 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

I think I read that book in 1972 followed by the glass bead game


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: Intelligence makes us stupid [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28567437 - 12/03/23 08:03 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

lmfao still a good book


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