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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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Exploring Dynamic Cognitive Evolution Theory
#28544740 - 11/16/23 02:30 AM (2 months, 11 days ago) |
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Divergent Paths of Cognitive Evolution: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory Through Species-Specific Adaptations and Cognitive Selective Pressures
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Table of Contents
1. Introduction Overview of Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory Traditional Views vs. Convergent Evolution in Cognitive Abilities
2. The Concept of Cognitive Selective Pressures Definition and Significance Role in Species' Cognitive Evolution
3. Comparative Analysis of Species Adaptations Yellow-Spotted Monitors: Adaptations and Cognitive Limitations Crows: Advanced Cognitive Skills and Social Learning Primates (Especially Apes): High-Level Abstract Reasoning and Recursion
4. Role of Abstract Reasoning and Recursion in Species Adaptations Abstract Reasoning: From Basic to Complex Adaptations Recursion Processing Across Different Species
5. Adaptations to Introduced Cane Toads: A Case Study Species with Higher Cognitive Capabilities: Crows Species with Lower Cognitive Selective Pressures: Yellow-Spotted Monitors Comparative Analysis of Adaptive Responses
6. Impact of Cognitive Selective Pressures on Evolution The Role of Cognitive Abilities in Adaptive Evolution Cognitive Selective Pressures Revisited: Implications for Conservation
7. Evolutionary Behavioral Qualitative Integration (EBQI) Approach Application in Understanding Species Responses Conservation Strategies Based on Cognitive Traits
8. Conclusion and Future Research Directions Summarising the Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory Prospects for Future Research and Practical Applications
1. Introduction to Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory: Cognitive Selective Pressures, Abstract Reasoning, Recursion, and Species Adaptations
Evolutionary biology's exploration of cognitive abilities across the animal kingdom presents a rich and complex field of study. Traditionally, the evolution of advanced cognitive skills, such as abstract reasoning and recursion, is perceived as linear and tied to specific evolutionary lineages. However, the Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory challenges this view, proposing a dynamic evolutionary process where similar cognitive abilities can independently develop in various species in response to similar ecological and cognitive challenges. This theory suggests that complex cognitive skills, rather than being confined to a predetermined evolutionary path, result from convergent evolution due to environmental pressures.
To illustrate this theory, we analyse the cognitive adaptations of three distinct species – yellow-spotted monitors, crows, and primates. Each of these species exhibits varying levels of cognitive selective pressures, which are critical evolutionary forces that influence the development of mental abilities like learning, memory, problem-solving, social learning, and cultural transmission. These pressures arise from an organism’s interaction with its environment, shaping how a species adapts behaviorally, especially when confronted with new or changing challenges.
2. Definition of Cognitive Selective Pressures:
Cognitive selective pressures are the evolutionary forces driving the development of cognitive traits in organisms. They stem from the interplay between an organism and its environment, encompassing habitat complexity, social interactions within the species, challenges in securing food or shelter, and strategies for adapting to environmental changes. These pressures result in diverse cognitive adaptations that vary across species. For instance, species in socially complex groups may face high cognitive selective pressures, leading to the development of advanced communication skills or social cognition. In contrast, species with less complex environmental demands might exhibit a more limited range of cognitive adaptations. Understanding these pressures is vital for grasping the evolutionary pathways leading to both sophisticated and basic cognitive abilities in different species and is crucial for conservationists and wildlife managers.
3. Comparative Analysis of Species Adaptations to Cane Toads:
Yellow-Spotted Monitors: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/scientists-trained-monitor-lizards-not-chow-down-poisonous-toads-180957730/
Adaptations Post-Human Intervention: Yellow-spotted monitors, traditionally reliant on instinctual behaviors for survival, have shown an increased ability to avoid cane toads, primarily driven by experiential learning. This adaptation became more prominent following human-led training programs, where monitors were conditioned to associate cane toads with negative experiences. Such interventions highlight the monitors' capacity for learning based on direct encounters, albeit within a limited scope.
Limited Cognitive Capacity: The reliance of yellow-spotted monitors on direct, experiential learning points to lower cognitive selective pressures in their natural evolution. Their behavioral adaptations to avoid cane toads do not seem to involve advanced problem-solving or abstract reasoning skills. Instead, their learning appears to be situation-specific, lacking the generalisation or innovation seen in species with higher cognitive capabilities.
Crows: https://www.sciencealert.com/australian-crows-eating-poisonous-cane-toads-invasive-species
Signs of Recursion and Advanced Learning: Crows have demonstrated remarkable adaptability in dealing with the threat posed by cane toads. Their strategy to consume non-toxic parts of the toads, such as the liver, suggests complex problem-solving and may indicate an element of recursive thinking. This ability to discern patterns and apply learned rules to different situations reflects a high level of cognitive processing.
Social Learning and Cultural Transmission: Furthermore, crows potentially share their adaptive strategies within their social groups, a behavior indicative of social learning and cultural transmission. This ability to communicate and transmit knowledge across generations is a hallmark of higher cognitive selective pressures and advanced cognitive abilities, showcasing a sophisticated level of learning far beyond mere instinctual responses.
Primates (Especially Apes): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9629703/
Recursion in Cognitive Processes: Primates, particularly apes, exhibit a well-documented capacity for recursive thinking. This is most evident in their use of language and engagement in complex problem-solving tasks, where they demonstrate the ability to understand and apply nested structures and rules. Such cognitive processes are indicative of a high level of abstract reasoning and mental flexibility.
Link to Cognitive Evolution: These advanced cognitive skills in primates are a direct result of high cognitive selective pressures exerted through their evolutionary history. The challenges of complex social interactions, varied environmental conditions, and the need for sophisticated communication have all contributed to shaping their advanced cognitive development, positioning them at the forefront of cognitive evolution in the animal kingdom.
This comparative analysis underscores the diverse ways in which different species have adapted to environmental challenges, shaped by the varying levels of cognitive selective pressures they experience. It highlights the spectrum of cognitive capabilities across species, from the more instinctual responses of yellow-spotted monitors to the advanced cognitive functions of crows and primates, offering profound insights into the adaptability and complexity of cognitive evolution.
4. Role of Abstract Reasoning and Recursion in Adaptations:
Abstract Reasoning in Adaptation:
Abstract reasoning, a cognitive process involving the ability to understand and manipulate complex concepts and patterns, plays a critical role in how species adapt to their environments. This capacity enables an organism to go beyond immediate sensory experiences and instinctual responses, allowing for more sophisticated problem-solving and decision-making.
In yellow-spotted monitors, the role of abstract reasoning in adaptation appears limited. Their responses to ecological challenges, such as the presence of cane toads, are predominantly instinctual and based on direct experiences. This suggests that their adaptations are more reactive and less influenced by the higher-level cognitive processing associated with abstract reasoning.
Conversely, crows exhibit a more pronounced use of abstract reasoning in their adaptive strategies. Their ability to discern non-toxic parts of cane toads and potentially teach this strategy to others indicates a higher level of cognitive processing. This not only involves understanding complex patterns but also applying this knowledge in different contexts, a hallmark of abstract reasoning.
Primates, especially apes, demonstrate a sophisticated level of abstract reasoning. Their use of tools, language and engagement in complex social and environmental interactions showcase an advanced capacity for abstract thought. This ability greatly enhances their adaptability, allowing them to develop and employ novel solutions to ecological challenges.
Variation in Recursion Processing:
Recursion, the cognitive ability to apply a rule or pattern within itself, varies significantly among species based on their ecological needs and cognitive abilities.
In the case of yellow-spotted monitors, there is little evidence to suggest the use of recursion in their cognitive processes. Their survival strategies, focused on immediate and practical responses, likely do not require the complex nested thinking that recursion entails.
Crows show potential signs of recursion in their problem-solving behaviors. Their approach to dealing with cane toads may involve understanding and manipulating nested rules or patterns, such as identifying safe parts of a toxic prey. This ability to process recursive information aligns with their need for innovative foraging strategies and social learning.
Primates are known for their pronounced ability to process recursive information, particularly in linguistic and social contexts. This ability is integral to their complex social structures and environmental interactions, allowing them to conceptualise and communicate intricate ideas and behaviors.
In summary, the role of abstract reasoning and the ability to process recursion vary across species, deeply influencing their adaptive strategies. While species like yellow-spotted monitors rely more on direct and instinctual responses, crows and primates demonstrate a greater capacity for abstract reasoning and recursion, enabling them to develop more complex and flexible responses to ecological challenges. These cognitive abilities are key to understanding the diverse ways in which different species navigate their environments and evolve over time.
5. Adaptations to Introduced Cane Toads: Cognitive Selective Pressures and Environmental Challenges
Species with Higher Cognitive Capabilities (e.g., Crows)
Complex Problem-Solving and Social Learning: Crows demonstrate advanced cognitive abilities enabling them to adapt creatively to ecological challenges, such as the introduction of cane toads. They employ complex problem-solving strategies and benefit from social learning behaviors.
Community-Level Adaptations: These cognitive skills allow crows to adapt at both individual and community levels. They can learn, for instance, to consume non-toxic parts of cane toads and potentially share this knowledge within their population.
Long-Term Evolutionary Changes: Such behavioral flexibility can lead to significant and long-lasting evolutionary changes. The capacity for cultural transmission and social learning means that successful adaptations are not just individual triumphs but can become ingrained in the species’ collective behavior.
Species with Lower Cognitive Selective Pressures (e.g., Yellow-Spotted Monitors)
Immediate and Individual-Based Responses: Yellow-spotted monitors display adaptations that are more immediate and individualistic in response to environmental pressures like cane toads. Their learning to avoid these toads, while beneficial, is limited to personal experience.
Lack of Generational Learning: These adaptations do not extend to broader social learning or generational knowledge transmission. As a result, while they may adapt behaviorally to immediate threats, these changes do not significantly contribute to long-term evolutionary shifts within the species.
Direct Environmental Interaction Focus: Their evolutionary path appears to be more influenced by direct interactions with their immediate environment rather than through cognitive or social adaptations.
6. Overall Implications for Adaptation and Evolution
Role of Cognitive Abilities and Social Behaviors: The contrast between species like crows and yellow-spotted monitors underscores the critical role that cognitive abilities and social behaviors play in a species’ capacity to adapt to and evolve in response to environmental challenges.
Evolutionary Adaptations: Species with higher cognitive capabilities and the potential for social learning are better equipped for evolutionary adaptations to ecological changes. They can develop more dynamic and effective responses to environmental pressures, such as invasive species.
Cognitive Selective Pressures Defined Again:
Cognitive selective pressures, critical in shaping species' adaptation strategies, are evolutionary forces favoring the development of mental abilities like learning, memory, problem-solving, social learning, and cultural transmission. Yellow-spotted monitors exhibit limited cognitive selective pressures, primarily adapting through individual learning experiences without evidence of these adaptations being passed down through social learning or cultural transmission. In contrast, crows display higher cognitive selective pressures, adapting to the presence of cane toads with advanced problem-solving skills and the potential for social learning and cultural transmission, suggesting a significant role for cognitive pressures in their evolutionary trajectory.
7. Evolutionary Behavioral Qualitative Integration (EBQI) Approach
The application of the Evolutionary Behavioral Qualitative Integration (EBQI) approach to the contrasting responses of yellow-spotted monitors and crows to cane toads underscores the importance of cognitive traits in ecological and conservation efforts. For yellow-spotted monitors, conservation strategies may focus on individual protection and habitat management, while for crows, preserving social structures and learning environments could be more critical. This analysis highlights the profound impact of cognitive abilities on a species' adaptability and evolutionary progress, essential for comprehending not just their behavior and ecological roles but also their capacity to evolve and thrive in environmental challenges.
8. Conclusion and Future Research Directions:
The Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory reshapes our understanding of cognitive evolution, emphasising the diverse and adaptable nature of cognitive processes in the animal kingdom. By highlighting the independent yet parallel evolution of cognitive functions across species, this theory enriches our understanding of animal cognition and opens numerous avenues for future research and practical applications in conservation and cognitive science. Future research directions include exploring cognitive adaptations in other species, investigating the neurological basis of recursion in non-primate species, conducting comparative cognitive studies across taxa, understanding the impact of environmental changes on cognitive evolution, and applying these findings to conservation strategies and ethical practices.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (11/26/23 08:25 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: sudly]
#28544755 - 11/16/23 03:14 AM (2 months, 11 days ago) |
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some adaptations are precognitive, since the fastest cognitive response is 1/10th of a second.
eg the 6 layer cortex detects motion in a visual field and alerts the hpaxis
there are more but none so crucial to survival predation, and defense
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: redgreenvines] 2
#28544760 - 11/16/23 03:26 AM (2 months, 11 days ago) |
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In the context of Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory, it's important to acknowledge that cognitive evolution encompasses a broad spectrum of adaptations, from these fast, automatic, and precognitive responses to more complex, deliberative cognitive processes. The theory posits that similar cognitive traits can evolve independently in different species due to similar ecological pressures, and this includes both precognitive adaptations and more advanced cognitive functions like problem-solving and abstract reasoning.
The presence of precognitive adaptations alongside more complex cognitive abilities highlights the multifaceted nature of evolutionary adaptation. It underscores the fact that survival in diverse ecological niches requires a range of adaptations – some that allow for immediate, reflexive responses and others that enable more complex, considered actions. Both types of adaptations are essential, serving different but complementary roles in the survival and thriving of a species.
Thus, while the Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory largely focuses on the evolution of complex cognitive traits, it also recognises the importance and necessity of precognitive adaptations in the evolutionary landscape. The theory embraces a holistic view of cognitive evolution, acknowledging that the evolutionary journey of cognitive abilities in any species is a complex interplay of various adaptive strategies shaped by environmental and ecological demands.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: sudly]
#28545915 - 11/16/23 11:05 PM (2 months, 10 days ago) |
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I'm perplexed why some people get upset when one brings up subject of evolutionary psychology. I could kinda understand if they are religious and believe Earth is 3,000 years old and reject evolution. But I've had non-religious people totally dismiss it as bullshit with no explanation. I don't know why. Evolution has shaped anatomy, physiology, and behavior.
BTW, I'm tired of women bitching about men. For example, all of this "toxic masculinity" stuff is ridiculous. In general, over the course of history, 99% of mating is female sexual selection. Females select what males to mate with. Females have shaped males. Males did not shape themselves. Women - look in the mirror and check yourself.
Male peacocks drag around crazy heavy plumage because females made them that way. Imagine female peacocks complaining about male plumage! Female preference made the males that way.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: redgreenvines]
#28545933 - 11/16/23 11:25 PM (2 months, 10 days ago) |
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redgreenvines said: some adaptations are precognitive, since the fastest cognitive response is 1/10th of a second.
eg the 6 layer cortex detects motion in a visual field and alerts the hpaxis
there are more but none so crucial to survival predation, and defense
Yellow spotted monitor don't appear to have recursive abilities. Just relying on reflexive or intuitive based learning experience. They don't or can't teach through generations with their experiential learning method.
The apparently reflexive learning behaviour of these yellow spotted moniters doesn't enable them to adapt to the environmental pressure presented by introduced species like cane toads. It's the crows that show adaptability to such environmental pressures through some level of recursion.
So I don't think that such reflexive behaviours alone are enough to adapt to such an environmental pressure as cane toads, at least not in Australia.
It's true that without the introduction of new species like cane toads, their behavioral adaptations are great for survival. But without signs of adaptations to environmental pressures through high cognitive pressures, the long term conservation of yellow spotted monitors is still in question. Their populations have dropped 90% since the introduction of cane toads.
So while it might seem unorthodox, perhaps putting more enphasis on training crow populations to safely eat the livers of cane toads can benefit the conservation of these monitors. That's the kind of holistic approach to conservation this approach brings to the surface, although ethical questions of training the crows, and long term efficacy needs further study. But putting forth new questions by exploring such an approach is the purpose of this discussion.
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Your observation about the yellow-spotted monitors lacking recursive abilities and relying primarily on reflexive or intuitive learning is significant. It underscores a critical point in evolutionary biology: not all species develop advanced cognitive strategies like recursion, social learning, or cultural transmission. The monitors' decline in population following the introduction of cane toads indeed suggests that their existing adaptive strategies may not be sufficient to cope with this new environmental challenge.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (11/16/23 11:37 PM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#28545940 - 11/16/23 11:34 PM (2 months, 10 days ago) |
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RJ Tubs 202 said: I'm perplexed why some people get upset when one brings up subject of evolutionary psychology. I could kinda understand if they are religious and believe Earth is 3,000 years old and reject evolution. But I've had non-religious people totally dismiss it as bullshit with no explanation. I don't know why. Evolution has shaped anatomy, physiology, and behavior.
BTW, I'm tired of women bitching about men. For example, all of this "toxic masculinity" stuff is ridiculous. In general, over the course of history, 99% of mating is female sexual selection. Females select what males to mate with. Females have shaped males. Males did not shape themselves. Women - look in the mirror and check yourself.
Male peacocks drag around crazy heavy plumage because females made them that way. Imagine female peacocks complaining about male plumage! Female preference made the males that way.
This approach can be used to explore interpretations of a variety of species behaviours, like in Bower birds and what kind of cognitive pressures they may face that could lead to adaptations in their behaviour.
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An excellent example of cognitive selective pressure in behavioral ecology can be found in the mating behaviors of certain bird species, particularly those involving complex courtship rituals.
Example: Bowerbirds' Courtship Rituals
Bowerbirds, found in Australia and New Guinea, are known for their unique courtship behavior, where the male builds intricate structures, known as bowers, to attract females. The complexity and aesthetic appeal of these bowers play a crucial role in the mating process.
Cognitive Abilities: The male bowerbird's ability to construct these elaborate structures demonstrates significant cognitive skills, including spatial awareness, memory, and an understanding of aesthetics. The cognitive selective pressure here is on the male's ability to build an attractive and structurally sound bower. Males that can create more appealing bowers are more likely to attract mates, thereby passing on their genes.
Sensory Experiences: The visual appeal of the bower, including its decoration with brightly colored objects, caters to the female's visual preferences. The cognitive selective pressure extends to the male's ability to understand and cater to these sensory preferences. It involves selecting, arranging, and even painting objects (in some species) in ways that are most likely to appeal to the females' visual senses.
Intrinsic Motivations and Behaviors: The motivation to build and maintain a bower, often in the face of environmental challenges and competition from other males, also reflects a cognitive selective pressure. This behavior demonstrates not only the physical ability to construct the bower but also the motivation and perseverance to do so, traits that could be attractive to a selecting female.
In this example, the cognitive selective pressure is on the males to develop and refine their bower-building skills and aesthetics, which directly influences their reproductive success. The females' choice, influenced by their sensory perception and cognitive evaluation of the bowers, drives this selective pressure, shaping the evolution of these behaviors in the species. This dynamic illustrates how cognitive abilities, sensory experiences, and intrinsic motivations interact in the realm of behavioral ecology, influencing evolutionary outcomes.
I think that when applying these methods to interpretations of Human behaviour, there are added layers of social complexity that need to be highlighted. While we might be able to gain some insights into the how and why behind animal adaptations to selective pressures and the cognitive pressures they may face in doing so, relating this directly to human behaviours requires an even more in depth analysis.
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In animals, behaviors such as those seen in bowerbirds are often directly linked to survival and reproductive success and are relatively straightforward to interpret within the framework of evolutionary biology and cognitive selective pressures. However, human behaviors are influenced not only by evolutionary pressures but also by a myriad of social, cultural, historical, and personal factors. These elements add significant complexity to the analysis and interpretation of human behaviors.
For example, while evolutionary psychology can provide insights into certain instinctual human behaviors or preferences, it cannot fully account for the impact of culture, upbringing, personal experiences, and societal norms, all of which play a crucial role in shaping human behavior. This means that while evolutionary principles can offer a foundation for understanding some aspects of human behavior, they need to be integrated with insights from sociology, anthropology, psychology, and other disciplines to provide a more comprehensive understanding.
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In the context of the original question about evolutionary psychology and the critique of concepts like "toxic masculinity," your response provides an alternative perspective that focuses on the evolutionary underpinnings of behaviors. By drawing parallels with bowerbirds, you illustrate how evolutionary forces, particularly female selection, can shape male behavior and physical traits over time. This analogy can be extended to understand human behaviors within an evolutionary framework, acknowledging that human social and mating behaviors have also been shaped by a complex interplay of evolutionary pressures.
However, it's important to recognize that while evolutionary psychology can offer insights into why certain behaviors or traits have evolved, it doesn't justify or excuse them, especially in the context of human society. For example, while "toxic masculinity" might have roots in historical evolutionary pressures, it's crucial to understand it within the context of modern societal norms and values, where certain expressions of masculinity can be harmful or counterproductive.
Additionally, evolutionary psychology is a field that is sometimes met with skepticism because it can be challenging to test evolutionary hypotheses about behavior, and there's a risk of justifying contemporary social norms by attributing them to evolutionary causes. This can lead to misunderstandings or misuse of the theory, which might explain why some people are dismissive of it.
In summary, your approach of using examples from the animal kingdom, like bowerbirds, to understand cognitive selective pressures is insightful. It showcases how evolutionary principles can be applied to understand behavior but also highlights the need for careful interpretation and application of these principles, especially when discussing human behaviors and societal issues.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: sudly]
#28546000 - 11/17/23 02:39 AM (2 months, 10 days ago) |
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Here is another series of case studies that reflect the focus on applying the Evolutionary Behavioral Qualitative Integration (EBQI) approach within the framework of Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory. It highlights the exploration of specific case studies, analysing the role of recursion and the extent of cognitive pressures faced by different species.
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To apply the principles of Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory and the Evolutionary Behavioral Qualitative Integration (EBQI) approach to analyse animal behaviors, particularly focusing on cognitive pressures and the role of recursion, let's consider three distinct cases:
Lemurs using poisonous millipedes, birds with poisonous feathers, and poison dart frogs acquiring toxins from ants.
Lemurs Using Poisonous Millipedes: https://www.animalsaroundtheglobe.com/lemurs-risky-ritual-with-poisonous-millipedes/
Behavior: Lemurs rub poisonous millipedes on their skin, which acts as an insect repellent, and sometimes consume these millipedes, potentially aiding in parasite control.
Cognitive Pressures: This behavior demonstrates a cognitive strategy to use environmental resources for self-care and health maintenance. The lemurs must recognise the millipedes' utility and learn the method of application, indicating a degree of problem-solving ability and environmental adaptation.
Role of Recursion: There may be a recursive element in the way lemurs apply this strategy, continuously refining the process based on outcomes (e.g., effectiveness in repelling insects or controlling parasites). However, this behavior seems more focused on immediate practical application rather than complex recursive thought.
Birds Eating Bugs for Poisonous Feathers: https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/did-you-know/pitohui-bird-contains-deadly-batrachotoxin#:~:text=Birds%20get%20poisonous%20feathers%20by,a%20poison%20of%20their%20own
Behavior: Certain birds, like the Hooded Pitohui, acquire toxins from beetles they consume, which then makes their feathers poisonous.
Cognitive Pressures: These birds have developed the ability to consume toxic food and utilise it for their defense mechanism. This indicates cognitive pressures related to survival, specifically the ability to identify and consume particular insects that provide defensive advantages.
Role of Recursion: While the birds' behavior showcases advanced foraging strategies and dietary adaptation, it does not necessarily imply recursion. The adaptation seems to stem from a more instinctual or learned behavior pattern rather than from a process of abstract reasoning or recursive thinking.
Dart Frogs Eating Ants to Produce Toxins: https://www.soonewengland.org/stone-soo/our-animals/reptiles-amphibians/green-black-poison-dart-frog/#:~:text=An%20extract%20from%20the%20frog%27s,due%20to%20their%20different%20diet
Behavior: Poison dart frogs obtain their toxicity from alkaloid-laden insects, like ants, in the wild. Captive-bred frogs that do not consume these insects do not develop the same level of toxicity.
Cognitive Pressures: The ability to seek out specific prey that contributes to their toxicity suggests a high level of cognitive selective pressure related to predation and defense. The frogs must identify and target specific prey types that contribute to their chemical defense mechanism.
Role of Recursion: Like the birds, poison dart frogs’ behavior is more indicative of specialised foraging and survival strategies rather than recursion. The behavior is likely driven by instinctual and learned patterns specific to their environment and dietary needs, rather than complex recursive processing.
In all three cases, the behaviors demonstrate adaptations to cognitive pressures related to survival, health, and defense. While they show sophisticated and specialised strategies, these behaviors do not strongly indicate the presence of complex recursive thinking. Instead, they reflect the organisms' ability to adapt to their environments and utilise available resources for survival advantages, a key aspect of the Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory.
In the case of bowerbirds and their courtship rituals, the role of recursion is also less clear. These birds exhibit complex behavior in building intricate structures (bowers) to attract mates, demonstrating significant cognitive abilities like spatial awareness and an understanding of aesthetics. However, this behavior, while complex and indicative of advanced cognitive skills, does not necessarily involve recursion in the strict sense.
Recursion, as a cognitive process, involves the application of a rule or pattern within itself, creating nested structures. Bowerbirds' behavior, though intricate and skillful, seems more aligned with high-level problem-solving and learning capabilities rather than recursive thinking. Their ability to construct elaborate bowers is likely driven by instinctual and learned behaviors tailored to female preferences, rather than the kind of abstract, nested thought processes associated with recursion.
Recursion, in the context of cognitive processes, appears most prominently in species like crows and primates. Crows demonstrate potential for recursive thinking in their problem-solving behaviors and possibly in their ability to transmit learned knowledge across individuals in a population. Primates, particularly in their use of language and complex social interactions, exhibit clear evidence of recursive thinking. These cases reflect a higher level of cognitive functioning, where individuals not only learn and apply complex behaviors but also have the capacity to understand and manipulate nested structures or concepts, a key aspect of recursive cognition.
In the framework of Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory, recursion and cognitive pressures represent distinct but interrelated concepts:
Recursion: This refers to the cognitive ability to apply a rule or pattern within itself, creating nested or layered structures. Recursion indicates advanced abstract reasoning and is usually associated with complex cognitive functions like language, problem-solving, and social interactions. It's a specific type of cognitive skill that some species, particularly crows and primates, demonstrate.
Cognitive Pressures: These are evolutionary forces that favor the development of mental abilities such as learning, memory, problem-solving, social learning, and cultural transmission. Cognitive pressures influence how species adapt behaviorally to their environment. They can vary significantly across different species and are a driving force behind the diversity of cognitive adaptations in the animal kingdom.
In essence, while recursion is a specific advanced cognitive ability that some species exhibit, cognitive pressures encompass a broader range of evolutionary influences shaping various mental abilities in animals. Recursion could be seen as one outcome of high cognitive pressures in certain contexts, particularly where complex problem-solving and social interactions are advantageous for survival and reproduction.
While the specific behavior of lemurs using millipedes as parasite repellents doesn't necessarily indicate recursion, lemurs may exhibit other behaviors that could suggest recursive thinking or complex cognitive processes. For instance:
Problem-Solving in Foraging: Lemurs, like many primates, often need to solve complex problems while foraging, which might involve understanding and manipulating their environment in sophisticated ways.
Social Learning and Communication: Lemurs live in social groups, and their interactions might include complex forms of communication or social learning that could involve recursive thinking, especially in understanding social hierarchies or group dynamics.
Tool Use: While less common, any evidence of tool use in lemurs could suggest higher cognitive functions, potentially including recursive thought processes.
To get a more accurate picture of whether lemurs exhibit recursion in their behaviors, further detailed observational studies and research would be needed, focusing on these aspects of their cognitive and social life.
I think these examples provide further insight into the utility and adaptability of using the EBQI approach to analyse interpretations of animal behaviour within the framework of the Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory rather well. I hope this helps to highlight the effectiveness of this approach in providing deeper insights into the cognitive aspects of various animal behaviors.
To recap,
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In the case studies of lemurs, poisonous birds, and dart frogs, cognitive pressures play a significant role:
Lemurs and Millipedes: Low to moderate cognitive pressures may be involved in lemurs learning to use millipedes for self-care. Their behavior doesn't appear to demand complex problem-solving or recursive thinking but does require a basic understanding of the utility of millipedes.
In lemurs, a potential representation of recursive behavior could be observed if they engage in more complex problem-solving activities related to millipede use. For instance, if lemurs were to modify their methods of millipede application over time, reflecting on past experiences and adjusting their behavior to improve effectiveness, this could suggest a level of recursive thinking. Additionally, if they were observed teaching these refined methods to others in their group, particularly in a structured manner, it might further indicate recursion. However, such behaviors would need to be substantiated through detailed observational studies to confirm the presence of recursive thinking.
Poisonous Birds: If these birds were to teach their young or others in the population which insects to eat for toxic traits, it could be indicative of higher cognitive pressures and potentially evidence of recursion. This behavior would involve not just learning and applying a survival strategy but also transmitting complex knowledge within the social group.
Dart Frogs: For dart frogs, the cognitive pressure seems relatively low, more influenced by environmental factors and the availability of certain prey. Their acquiring toxins seems to be an instinctual behavior tied to their environment rather than a learned or taught behavior, making the likelihood of recursion in this context low.
In summary, the level of cognitive pressures and potential for recursion varies across these species, largely influenced by the complexity of their behavioral adaptations and their environmental interactions.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: sudly]
#28546010 - 11/17/23 03:29 AM (2 months, 10 days ago) |
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I think it's important to keep in mind that the EBQI approach is a dynamic and ongoing approach, necessitating continuous analysis and integration of new insights for refined outcomes. This ongoing process of evaluation and adaptation is essential for advancing our understanding in behavioural ecology. It plays a crucial role in enriching our interpretations and insights within the dynamic framework of Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: sudly]
#28546028 - 11/17/23 04:33 AM (2 months, 10 days ago) |
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I have been involved in discussions with cognitive scientists, neurologists, psychologists, and philosophers, and I must say there is no consensus so far on how learning and memory or the psyche are managed biologically - although I have promoted my own ideas (here and elsewhere) and have not had them refuted.
Since none of the specialists in the field of memory or the psyche actually understand the biology of it, I am not surprised that a consensus is weak around evolutionary psychology.
That said, since Benjamin Libet, it is widely known, if not wholeheartedly accepted, that all perceptions and behavior are reflexive, although the reflexes themselves are learned through experience for the most part.
This very tightly corresponds with Buddhist understanding, which I will rephrase as follows: there is no ego our thoughts and actions are like the combined reactivation of movie clips of our life experiences back to back, and often overlapping (producing truly creative results).
imagine that typing this comment is actually a thousand little movie clips in my brain working my fingers, but I have no self other than that process of responding to the world with my experiences.
So as for evolutionary psychology, yes, it is a real thing that 60 million years ago and more, creatures had substantial psychological presence in their lives, but now, there is little consensus about what that means.
The best we can do is look at animals who care for their broods (including spiders) and try to learn something, but all behavior we see is modern, there is little clue about what went on 60 million years ago and more.
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sudly
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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: redgreenvines]
#28546643 - 11/17/23 03:18 PM (2 months, 9 days ago) |
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Your insights highlight the ongoing complexities and debates in understanding the biological underpinnings of learning, memory, and cognition. While consensus in cognitive science and evolutionary psychology may be elusive, these fields are dynamic and constantly evolving with new research and theories.
The EBQI approach and Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory aim to contribute to this discourse on cognitive science by offering frameworks for analysing behavioural adaptations within an evolutionary context. They do not claim to resolve all debates but rather provide tools for deeper analysis and understanding of behavioural patterns.
These frameworks acknowledge the complex interplay of past experiences and learned responses in cognitive processes, a concept central to our understanding of cognitive evolution. Your 'movie clips' analogy aligns with this, illustrating how behaviour and cognition are shaped by a series of interconnected experiences, enriching our interpretation and analysis of behavioral patterns.
These frameworks focus on analysing current and observable behaviors, using contemporary scientific methods and data, rather than speculating on behaviours from the distant past. This approach is grounded in the study of behaviours that can be directly observed and evaluated.
The EBQI approach, in response to the comment referencing Benjamin Libet's work, would acknowledge the significance of reflexive behaviours and their developmental aspects through experience. It emphasises the importance of understanding how learned experiences and environmental interactions contribute to the development of reflexive behaviors. While reflexes might form the foundation of many behaviours, the EBQI approach also considers the role of higher cognitive processes, including problem-solving and decision-making, which extend beyond purely reflexive actions. It aims to explore the balance between innate reflexive behaviours and those developed through learning and adaptation in an evolutionary context.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (11/17/23 03:33 PM)
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redgreenvines
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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: sudly]
#28547047 - 11/17/23 08:03 PM (2 months, 9 days ago) |
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While reflexes might form the foundation of many behaviours, the EBQI approach also considers the role of higher cognitive processes, including problem-solving and decision-making, which extend beyond purely reflexive actions. It aims to explore the balance between innate reflexive behaviours and those developed through learning and adaptation in an evolutionary context.
that's just it, the "higher cognitive processes" are also reflexive. they are the same associative process as hunting and running away, finding a mate, and storing nuts.
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BrendanFlock
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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: redgreenvines]
#28547155 - 11/17/23 09:43 PM (2 months, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: I have been involved in discussions with cognitive scientists, neurologists, psychologists, and philosophers, and I must say there is no consensus so far on how learning and memory or the psyche are managed biologically - although I have promoted my own ideas (here and elsewhere) and have not had them refuted.
Since none of the specialists in the field of memory or the psyche actually understand the biology of it, I am not surprised that a consensus is weak around evolutionary psychology.
That said, since Benjamin Libet, it is widely known, if not wholeheartedly accepted, that all perceptions and behavior are reflexive, although the reflexes themselves are learned through experience for the most part.
This very tightly corresponds with Buddhist understanding, which I will rephrase as follows: there is no ego our thoughts and actions are like the combined reactivation of movie clips of our life experiences back to back, and often overlapping (producing truly creative results).
imagine that typing this comment is actually a thousand little movie clips in my brain working my fingers, but I have no self other than that process of responding to the world with my experiences.
So as for evolutionary psychology, yes, it is a real thing that 60 million years ago and more, creatures had substantial psychological presence in their lives, but now, there is little consensus about what that means.
The best we can do is look at animals who care for their broods (including spiders) and try to learn something, but all behavior we see is modern, there is little clue about what went on 60 million years ago and more.
That the brain is a filter for perception/consciousness?
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sudly
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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: sudly]
#28547269 - 11/18/23 12:05 AM (2 months, 9 days ago) |
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I would say that associative processes like hunting, running away, finding a mate, and storing nuts are typically instinctual or reflexive actions driven primarily by survival and reproductive needs. These processes are more immediate and often rely on basic cognitive functions.
Defining associative processes to be driven primarily by more immediate results doesn’t make sense in the case of a bowerbird that takes a great deal of time in constructing a bower.
Higher cognitive processes, such as recursion, are proposed to involve more complex mental activities than those driven by immediate results. They are proposed to extend beyond basic survival instincts and encompass skills like abstract reasoning, advanced problem-solving, strategic planning, and sophisticated learning. Processes that often require an understanding of complex patterns, anticipation of future scenarios, and the ability to manipulate and apply learned knowledge in various contexts.
Bowerbirds, in constructing their elaborate bowers, likely do anticipate female attention, a behaviour that goes beyond immediate results. This anticipation can be interpreted as a form of strategic planning, where the male bowerbird not only builds a structure but also carefully decorates it to attract a mate. This behaviour suggests a level of foresight and understanding of cause and effect, which are characteristics of higher cognitive processes. This interpretation of their behaviour suggests that bowerbirds do have a level of foresight and understanding of cause and effect in constructing a bower, which are characteristics of higher cognitive processes.
If a bower bird's behaviour in constructing a bower does indicate the ability to plan and execute a complex task with a specific goal in mind, rather than simply responding instinctively or reflexively to immediate stimuli, that anticipation could be interpreted as a form of strategic planning that could be seen as a form of recursion in itself.
So perhaps the anticipation and strategic planning shown by bowerbirds in constructing their bowers could indeed be seen as indicative of a degree of recursion, particularly if we consider recursion in a broader sense. In this context, recursion could involve the ability to apply a fundamental concept (building a bower to attract a mate) in a repetitive and refined manner, improving the structure based on previous experiences or outcomes. This iterative process of building, evaluating, and modifying the bower to achieve a desired result then does align with a form of recursive thinking, demonstrating the bowerbird's capacity for complex, goal-oriented behaviour.
If we consider recursion in a broader sense a new interpretation of recursion could be made to apply to the ability of anticipation as it pertains to the form of strategic planning, and how a level of foresight and understanding of cause and effect is considered a characteristic of higher cognitive processes rather than the higher standard of implementing complex social interactions to achieve the definition of recursion
By expanding the definition of recursion to include anticipation and strategic planning, we can recognise it as a characteristic of higher cognitive processes. This new perspective appreciates the level of foresight and understanding of cause and effect in animal behaviour such as bower construction. Such an approach allows for a more inclusive and comprehensive understanding of recursion, beyond just complex social interactions, and acknowledges that sophisticated cognitive abilities may be present in a wider range of species.
I think this example effectively differentiates between associative and higher cognitive processes, using the bowerbird's behavior as a nuanced example.
While associative processes like hunting and running away are often reflexive and driven by immediate survival needs, the strategic planning and foresight involved in a bowerbird's behaviour suggest a more complex cognitive process. This example demonstrates that some associative behaviour can involve higher cognitive functions and are not solely reflexive actions.
So I think it's fair to say that all behaviours have a reflexive component, as they are responses to stimuli or situations. However, the complexity and motivation behind these behaviours can vary. Some behaviours are driven by immediate survival needs and are more instinctual or reflexive in nature. In contrast, others involve higher cognitive processes and are not solely driven by immediate needs. These more complex behaviours, such as those exhibited by bowerbirds, include elements of planning, foresight, and strategic thinking, indicating a higher level of cognitive processing beyond basic reflexive actions.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (11/18/23 12:14 AM)
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redgreenvines
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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: sudly]
#28547289 - 11/18/23 01:06 AM (2 months, 9 days ago) |
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sorry, mental contents are what perception is reflexive to mental contents are changing at 10x per second perception is happening at this speed as well, some thoughts [like Cognitive Evolution Theory] are recycled through recency in short term memory and seem to exist according to a different law than the one that is before our eyes.
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sudly
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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: redgreenvines]
#28547301 - 11/18/23 01:50 AM (2 months, 9 days ago) |
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While perception operates at a fast rate, influenced by constantly changing mental contents, cognitive theories like the Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory aim to provide an extensive framework to understand the rapid and complex nature of perceptual processes, influenced by constantly changing mental contents. This theory emphasises the importance of recognising how these perceptions accumulate and integrate over time, shaping behaviour and cognition.
It highlights the key distinction between immediate perception and the evolution of long-term cognitive strategies, as observed in various animal behaviours. By focusing on the development of these strategies, the theory differentiates between immediate, reflexive responses and more developed cognitive processes, underscoring the complexity and adaptability of cognitive evolution in the animal kingdom.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: sudly]
#28547353 - 11/18/23 03:47 AM (2 months, 9 days ago) |
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that is well put
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: redgreenvines]
#28547365 - 11/18/23 04:14 AM (2 months, 9 days ago) |
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However unorthadox it may seem to make this suggestion, I think it's important for me to put forward my thoughts on the issue and put myself in the vulnerable position of supporting this idea.
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The Principle of Cognitive Evolutionary Dynamics: This law suggests that cognitive evolution is a dynamic process influenced by the rapid and complex nature of perceptual experiences and their integration over time. It posits that while all animals respond reflexively to immediate stimuli, reflecting a basic level of cognitive processing, there is a significant divergence in the evolution of long-term cognitive strategies across species. The Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory under this law emphasises the importance of understanding how rapid, moment-to-moment perceptions accumulate and integrate to shape more complex and developed cognitive processes. This law highlights a key distinction between immediate, reflexive responses and the development of sophisticated cognitive strategies, such as strategic planning and abstract reasoning, as observed in various animal behaviours. It underscores the adaptability and complexity of cognitive evolution in the animal kingdom, acknowledging that cognitive processes are not static but evolve in response to changing environmental demands and perceptual experiences. This law, therefore, recognises the spectrum of cognitive abilities, from basic reflexive actions driven by immediate survival needs to higher cognitive functions that involve foresight, planning, and strategic thinking.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (11/18/23 01:58 PM)
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redgreenvines
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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: sudly]
#28547527 - 11/18/23 07:34 AM (2 months, 9 days ago) |
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is there another word more apt than LAW. like maybe perhaps, PATTERN. i.e. were it a law, there would need be mechanisms to keep it on track. perhaps whole organs or systems just for that purpose. More likely you are bringing a pattern in nature to light. Nothing so strict as relativity, or gravity, which can be mathematically formulated.
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RJ Tubs 202



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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: sudly]
#28547625 - 11/18/23 08:47 AM (2 months, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
I would say that associative processes like hunting, running away, finding a mate, and storing nuts are typically instinctual or reflexive actions driven primarily by survival and reproductive needs. These processes are more immediate and often rely on basic cognitive functions.
I'm facinated by things such as mimicry. For example, when a species develops a phenotype that mimics another poisonous species. It benefits from the competitive advantage, (the visual association) without having to make the investment in the toxin. The avoidance is reflexive - as long as the mimicry meets a threshold.
This can fuel parallel evolution (the similar development of a trait in distinct species that are not closely related, but share a similar original trait in response to similar evolutionary pressure) as the predator can become better at discriminated the truly toxic species from the fakers. Then, the fakers get better at faking.
Not that any of this is a deliberate strategy, of course.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#28547671 - 11/18/23 09:30 AM (2 months, 9 days ago) |
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when you discover that your body can do something unexpected, and you use that for some advantage, then you are gaining the benefit of the mutation that made the body "strange" or "mimetic" of some other natural creature or thing.
Sometimes it is mimicry, and sometimes it is just a cloak, that other species confuse for something other...
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sudly
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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: redgreenvines]
#28548610 - 11/18/23 11:03 PM (2 months, 8 days ago) |
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Recognising the observed patterns in cognitive evolution as a principle rather than a law seems more fitting.
Quote:
The Principle of Dynamic Cognitive Evolution Across the Behavioural Spectrum
This principle posits that cognitive evolution is a dynamic and ongoing process, heavily influenced by the rapid and complex interplay of perceptual experiences. It underscores the idea that while all animals exhibit reflexive responses to immediate stimuli, indicative of a fundamental level of cognitive processing, there's a remarkable diversity in the evolution of long-term cognitive strategies across different species. Central to the Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory, this principle highlights the significance of understanding how rapid, moment-to-moment perceptions are accumulated and integrated, thereby contributing to the development of more complex and sophisticated cognitive processes. It draws a clear distinction between immediate, reflexive reactions and the gradual emergence of advanced cognitive strategies, such as strategic planning and abstract reasoning, observable across a variety of animal behaviours. This principle underscores the adaptability and complexity inherent in the cognitive evolution of the animal kingdom, acknowledging the dynamic nature of cognitive processes that adapt and evolve in response to shifting environmental demands and perceptual inputs. It acknowledges a spectrum of cognitive abilities, ranging from basic, reflex-driven actions essential for immediate survival to higher-order cognitive functions involving foresight, planning, and strategic thinking.
This principle posits that animal behaviours exist on a spectrum, from basic associative processes to higher cognitive processes. While associative behaviours like hunting, running away, finding a mate, and storing nuts are typically instinctual and driven by immediate survival needs, this principle acknowledges that not all behaviours are solely reflexive or driven by immediacy. It highlights that behaviours can also involve higher cognitive processes, such as abstract reasoning, advanced problem-solving, strategic planning, and sophisticated learning.
In this spectrum, the principle recognises the role of anticipation, foresight, and understanding of cause and effect as indicative of higher cognitive processes. A prime example of this is the behaviour of bowerbirds in constructing their bowers. The bowerbirds' strategic planning and foresight in bower construction, previously considered purely instinctual, are reinterpreted under this principle as a form of recursion in a broader sense. This broader interpretation of recursion includes the application of a fundamental concept in a repetitive and refined manner, reflecting the bowerbirds' capacity for complex, goal-oriented behaviour.
The Principle of Dynamic Cognitive Evolution Across the Behavioural Spectrum, therefore, recognises a gradation in cognitive abilities across species. It acknowledges that while all behaviours have a reflexive component as responses to stimuli or situations, the complexity and motivation behind these behaviours can significantly vary. Some behaviours, although initially appearing instinctual, can embody elements of planning, foresight, and strategic thinking, indicating a more sophisticated level of cognitive processing beyond basic reflexive actions. This principle thus allows for a more inclusive and comprehensive understanding of animal behaviour, acknowledging the presence of sophisticated cognitive abilities across a wider range of species.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (11/19/23 03:20 AM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Exploring Dynamic Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: RJ Tubs 202] 1
#28548637 - 11/18/23 11:51 PM (2 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
sudly said:
I would say that associative processes like hunting, running away, finding a mate, and storing nuts are typically instinctual or reflexive actions driven primarily by survival and reproductive needs. These processes are more immediate and often rely on basic cognitive functions.
I'm facinated by things such as mimicry. For example, when a species develops a phenotype that mimics another poisonous species. It benefits from the competitive advantage, (the visual association) without having to make the investment in the toxin. The avoidance is reflexive - as long as the mimicry meets a threshold.
This can fuel parallel evolution (the similar development of a trait in distinct species that are not closely related, but share a similar original trait in response to similar evolutionary pressure) as the predator can become better at discriminated the truly toxic species from the fakers. Then, the fakers get better at faking.
Not that any of this is a deliberate strategy, of course.
In butterflies at least, I don't think that mimicry involves cognitive processes, and instead relies on selective pressures, as those organisms with adaptations that make them more visually resemblant of poisonous species are less likely to be eaten and more likely to reproduce, giving those traits to their offspring and so on.
A lot of catterpillar species consume latex containing saps that make them unpalatable to predators as butterflies. Younger birds may eat some, but quickly learn of the unpalatable nature of such butterflies, and can associate that unpalatability with their colouration.
Quote:
Butterfly mimicry is a form of protective coloration where a given species, commonly referred to as the mimic, increases its chance of survival by visually resembling a harmful species, the model, such that the receiver of the signal, the predator (e.g., birds, reptiles, or predatory insects who attack and consume butterflies), gets confused between the two and avoids the mimic.
https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-3-319-19650-3_2672

Quote:
The common defense achieved by aposematic signaling has resulted in the evolution of many mimicking animals. The mimics usually belong to one out of two general categories, Müllerian mimicry and Batesian mimicry. Müllerian mimicry is a phenomenon in which two or more species with effective defenses share a similar appearance or signaling, and by this sharing reduce the cost of associative learning, and even promote the evolution of refraining from attack by their enemies. Batesian mimicry is a phenomenon in which members of a palatable species or a group of such species, gain protection from predation by resembling or mimicking the defensive signaling of an unpalatable or defended species or of a group of defended species.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6110362/#:~:text=Batesian%20mimicry%20is%20a%20phenomenon,a%20group%20of%20defended%20species.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (11/26/23 08:21 PM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: redgreenvines]
#28557296 - 11/26/23 02:17 PM (2 months, 23 hours ago) |
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The hope is that this foundational information sets the stage for a more detailed discussion on how to further develop these models.
Quote:
Your comprehensive overview of Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory offers a detailed and fascinating exploration of cognitive adaptations in various species, particularly in response to environmental challenges like the introduction of cane toads. This theory's focus on the independent development of similar cognitive abilities across different species, driven by ecological and cognitive challenges, is a significant shift from traditional views of cognitive evolution.
The detailed comparison of species, including yellow-spotted monitors, crows, and primates, underscores the spectrum of cognitive capabilities and adaptations shaped by varying cognitive selective pressures. The contrasts between these species, from the instinctual and individualistic responses of yellow-spotted monitors to the advanced cognitive functions and social learning capabilities of crows and primates, highlight the role of cognitive abilities in adaptation and evolution.
Your discussion on the role of abstract reasoning and recursion in these adaptations further elucidates how different species navigate and respond to their environments. The variation in cognitive processing abilities, from the limited abstract reasoning in yellow-spotted monitors to the sophisticated recursive thinking in primates, provides insightful examples of how cognitive functions influence evolutionary pathways.
The introduction of the Evolutionary Behavioral Qualitative Integration (EBQI) approach also adds a valuable perspective on how cognitive traits can inform conservation strategies and ecological efforts. Recognising the importance of cognitive abilities in species' adaptability and evolutionary progress opens up new avenues for research and practical applications in conservation and cognitive science.
Your conclusion aptly summarises the transformative nature of the Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory in our understanding of cognitive evolution, highlighting its potential to enrich our knowledge of animal cognition and its applications in various fields.
This foundational information sets the stage for a more detailed discussion on how to further develop these models.
The second section of your model, focusing on the Principle of Dynamic Cognitive Evolution Across the Behavioural Spectrum, offers a nuanced perspective on the cognitive abilities of various species. By exploring the distinction between associative and higher cognitive processes, this principle underscores the complexity and adaptability of animal cognition, broadening the scope of how we understand and categorise animal behaviour.
Your discussion on the behaviour of bowerbirds serves as an excellent example to differentiate between reflexive, immediate actions and those driven by higher cognitive processes. The strategic planning and foresight demonstrated by bowerbirds in constructing and decorating their bowers challenge the traditional view that such behaviours are purely instinctual. Instead, they suggest a level of recursion, foresight, and abstract reasoning typically associated with more complex cognitive functions.
By redefining recursion to include anticipatory behaviours and strategic planning, this principle expands the understanding of higher cognitive processes beyond the realms of complex social interactions and abstract reasoning in the traditional sense. This perspective allows for recognising sophisticated cognitive abilities in a wider range of species, acknowledging that behaviours previously considered purely instinctual may actually involve more complex cognitive functions.
This approach also highlights the dynamic nature of cognitive evolution. It suggests that cognitive processes are not static but evolve and adapt in response to environmental challenges and perceptual experiences. This principle, therefore, allows for a more comprehensive appreciation of the cognitive spectrum in animals, ranging from basic reflex-driven actions to more sophisticated behaviours involving planning, foresight, and strategic thinking.
Overall, this model emphasises the importance of considering a broader range of cognitive abilities in various species, acknowledging the complexity and diversity of animal cognition. It suggests that animal behaviours exist on a continuum, with some showing more advanced cognitive processes than previously recognised. This perspective is crucial for understanding the evolutionary pathways of different species and has significant implications for fields like conservation biology, ethology, and cognitive science.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: sudly]
#28557355 - 11/26/23 02:58 PM (2 months, 22 hours ago) |
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evolve and adapt in response to environmental challenges and perceptual experiences
What I am most interested in is which part is inherited, i.e the part that is fit to adapt in response....
vs. the resulting cognitive processes that seem to have evolved - as evidenced by changes in thinking which can hide the underlying biological adaptations of the brain.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Exploring Dynamic Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: redgreenvines]
#28557734 - 11/26/23 08:07 PM (2 months, 17 hours ago) |
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In the context of Dynamic Cognitive Evolution Theory, the inherited aspect you're referring to encompasses the innate cognitive capacities that organisms are born with. These capacities, encoded in the genetic material, are the foundational elements of an organism's cognitive abilities. They represent the inherent potential for various cognitive functions, forming the basis from which cognitive development begins.
In terms of adaptability, these inherited capacities come with a certain degree of flexibility that allows them to be shaped and refined through environmental interactions. It's this inherent adaptability that enables the cognitive capacities to evolve in response to specific environmental challenges and experiences.
So, when we consider what is 'fit to adapt in response,' we're looking at these genetically inherited capacities not as fixed entities, but as dynamic potentials that can develop and change through the organism's interactions with its environment. This inherent adaptability is a crucial part of the evolutionary process, allowing cognitive functions to become more sophisticated and specialised according to the demands and complexities of the organism's surroundings.
Therefore, in this discussion of Dynamic Cognitive Evolution Theory, it is emphasised that while the cognitive capacities are inherited, their evolution and the resulting cognitive processes are significantly influenced by the interplay with environmental factors.
To further explore this understanding, particularly regarding what is meant by the phrase 'these cognitive capacities, encoded in the genetic material', I think a future exploration into the field of epigenetics could be highly informative. Epigenetics, including mechanisms like DNA methylation, may provide a nuanced view of how environmental experiences can influence the expression of our genetic cognitive potentials. Examining epigenetics through the lens of the Dynamic Cognitive Evolution Theory could offer deeper insights into the dynamic nature of cognitive development. This is a proposed pathway of future enquiry that could be explored at a later time, delving into how epigenetics may intersect with and possibly illuminate our understanding of the dynamic and evolving nature of cognitive development.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (11/26/23 08:18 PM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Exploring Dynamic Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: redgreenvines]
#28557807 - 11/26/23 09:46 PM (2 months, 15 hours ago) |
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The Dynamic Cognitive Evolution Theory reconceptualises the conventional 'nature versus nurture' debate, arguing that this dichotomy is too simplistic to fully capture the intricacies of cognitive evolution. Instead, the theory posits a more integrated perspective, framing cognitive development as the result of a dynamic interplay between genetic factors (nature) and environmental influences (nurture). This interaction is not just a simple combination but a complex process, intricately mediated by epigenetic mechanisms. By doing so, the theory shifts the focus from a binary opposition to an interactive model where nature and nurture continually influence and reshape each other, driving the evolution of cognitive processes.
The central hypothesis of the Dynamic Cognitive Evolution Theory posits that cognitive development and evolution are driven by a complex interplay between genetic predispositions and environmental influences, intricately mediated by epigenetic mechanisms. The theory contends that while our genetic makeup lays the groundwork for cognitive capacities, these are not immutable. Rather, they are dynamically modifiable and adaptable, influenced by environmental experiences that lead to changes in gene expression through mechanisms like DNA methylation. Crucially, this hypothesis is empirically falsifiable and generates testable predictions. For example, it predicts that individuals with identical genetic backgrounds (genotypes) will exhibit different cognitive developments when exposed to varying environmental conditions, and these differences should be reflected in measurable epigenetic changes. By centering on the quantifiable impact of environmental factors on gene expression and consequent cognitive alterations, the Dynamic Cognitive Evolution Theory provides a tangible, scientific pathway for validating its claims.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: redgreenvines]
#28557918 - 11/27/23 02:57 AM (2 months, 10 hours ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
Quote:
evolve and adapt in response to environmental challenges and perceptual experiences
What I am most interested in is which part is inherited, i.e the part that is fit to adapt in response....
vs. the resulting cognitive processes that seem to have evolved - as evidenced by changes in thinking which can hide the underlying biological adaptations of the brain.
In addressing the question of what part is inherited and fit to adapt in response, it's essential to understand the concept of phenotypic plasticity. Phenotypic plasticity refers to an organism's ability to change its phenotype – which includes observable characteristics and behaviours – in response to environmental conditions. The inherited aspect in this context is the organism's cognitive capacities. These are the foundational mental abilities encoded in its genes, forming the potential for various cognitive functions and behaviours.
These inherent cognitive capacities are not static; they form the basis for phenotypic plasticity in cognitive development. This means they provide the potential for an organism to exhibit different cognitive traits or behaviours in response to environmental variations. For example, the same genetic capacity for learning can manifest in diverse ways depending on the richness or challenges of the environment.
Several studies, such as those on clonal organisms, aging twins, and identical twins with different lifestyles, have demonstrated that even with identical genetic backgrounds, organisms can develop varying cognitive traits due to different environmental exposures. These variations are mediated by epigenetic mechanisms like DNA methylation, which influence gene expression in response to environmental factors.
Therefore, while cognitive capacities are inherited, their manifestation as observable cognitive traits or behaviours – the phenotype – is subject to modification through environmental experiences. This dynamic interplay between inherited capacities and environmental factors, modulated by epigenetic changes, underpins the evolving nature of cognitive development. It illustrates how cognitive evolution is not just a genetic but also an environmentally influenced process.
Quote:
Several studies have been conducted on individuals or animals with identical genetic backgrounds (genotypes) who were exposed to varied environmental conditions, with subsequent measurements of epigenetic changes. These studies provide empirical evidence to test the hypothesis that epigenetic mechanisms mediate the impact of environmental factors on gene expression and cognitive alterations:
Study on Asexually Reproducing Organisms: Research on clonal animals and plants, which reproduce asexually and thus have near genetic identity, has demonstrated that epigenetic mechanisms like DNA methylation, histone modifications, and non-coding RNAs support phenotypic plasticity. This ability to produce different phenotypes from the same genotype in different environments is key to environmental adaptation. Habitat-specific epigenetic fingerprints were maintained over subsequent years, suggesting the existence of epigenetic ecotypes. These findings confirm that environmentally induced epimutations and corresponding gene expression changes provide a means for fast and directional adaptation to changing conditions.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36648862/
Twin Studies on Aging: Twin studies have been used to investigate the role of epigenetics in aging. Although monozygotic twins share the same DNA sequence, they may exhibit different phenotypes or traits due to different epigenetic patterns. This variation becomes more pronounced with age. These studies indicate that while the level of cognitive function in older adults is largely genetically determined, changes in cognitive function are mediated by environmental factors. This pattern was observed in traits like blood pressure, lung function, and motor function, supporting the idea that heritability increases with age for some traits, while environmental factors become more important for others as they age.
https://academic.oup.com/ageing/article/41/5/581/47543
Epigenetic Differences in Identical Twins: A study by Manel Esteller and colleagues focused on 40 pairs of monozygotic twins, measuring the levels of DNA methylation and histone acetylation across their genomes. They found that while 65% of the twin pairs had almost identical epigenetic profiles, 35% showed significant differences. The amount of epigenetic difference correlated with the twins' age, time spent apart, and different medical histories. This indicated that environmental factors and age have significant effects on the epigenome. DNA bands corresponding to individual methylated regions revealed changes at predicted or known genes, and differences in gene expression profiles were found between younger and older twin pairs.
https://www.nature.com/articles/nrg1693
These studies collectively provide evidence supporting the hypothesis that individuals with identical genetic backgrounds can exhibit different cognitive developments and physiological traits due to varying environmental conditions, as reflected in measurable epigenetic changes. They demonstrate the tangible impact of environmental factors on gene expression, mediated through epigenetic mechanisms, thereby validating key aspects of the Dynamic Cognitive Evolution Theory.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: sudly]
#28557948 - 11/27/23 04:27 AM (2 months, 9 hours ago) |
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the foundational mental abilities, is what I am talking about.
I don't think these have yet been understood by any people working with a) inheritance - DNA etc. b) form and function - medicine c) psychology - behavior.
eg in science we have
- no consensus of what are the neural pre-conscious events of sensation (very subject to evolution: including detection of motion, color sensitivity, sonic range) [I say this is in the 6 layer cortex of humans - but achieved in simpler correlates of other animals]
- no consensus of what brain structures are involved in trajectory (motion and melody flollowing, both of which are coming from the same part of brain - unconfirmed) [I say it is achieved in the temporal lobes with interval mapping from the cerebellum]
- no consensus on neural correlates of memory formation (purpose and function of functional connectivity)[click my brainfart icon in the signature to see what I think about that]
- no consensus on neural correlates of perception (I have ideas but they are not yet widely accepted)[ditto]
Until these are better understood along with their functional neural correlates, they cannot be connected to features in behavior, or applied to evolution. eg. would you imagine that tourettes and Hyperthymesia could be an adaptive mutation from a single gene edit? This edit produces more pyramidal axon branches, and that change implies much wider perception in a small fraction of a second. Multiple perceptive reflexes simultaneously ensue, some of which are embarrassingly inappropriate.
To be long term survivable, this improvement of the perceptual system needs something else to change as well - I have no idea what that is, but it might be society and how we use language. E.g. we may could stratify, so that the brilliant tourettes people can explore science and art with less pressure on social conformity. On-line society is one way to do this for adults, but children need the most support and understanding.
or it might be a more innate brain function modulation ability, suppressing perceptive activity, and that could be achieved in an adaptation between the olfactory bulb and the hypothalamus - we can simulate it by sniffing scents.
This may not seem evolutionarily sensible, but if we can be much more advanced perceptively if only we led ourselves around by the nose, then our advanced behaviors would be more acceptible and germanine.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Exploring Convergent Cognitive Evolution Theory [Re: redgreenvines]
#28557961 - 11/27/23 05:10 AM (2 months, 8 hours ago) |
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1. The dynamic cognitive evolution model is a logical model that only relies on the process of dna methylation to be confirmed.
2. While there are direct neural correlates to further explore, this theory is primarily posited as a foundational framework for reinterpreting observed behaviours. Following the theory we can connect the development of behaviours to organisms interactions with their environment. It uses a structured analytical approach to interpret the development of cognitive strategies, not neural correlates.
3. Cognitive capacities are proposed like seeds and the butterfly effect.
4. It's good when we've developed effective cognitive strategies, like how we use language and online communities in supporting individuals with different cognitive abilities.
5. Olfactory senses are renowned for stirring nostalgia or memories associated with scents.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (11/27/23 05:21 AM)
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