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InvisibleLithop
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Re: Heating a space [Re: shronoob88]
    #28556291 - 11/25/23 05:24 PM (2 months, 1 day ago)

^Good points.
Quote:

shronoob88 said:
OK so I do actually have a Hawkins big boy pressure cooker now , MSS spore syringe,  monotubs , half quart jars with lids  , SAB , BRF, VERM, isopropyl bottle and sprayer. Sterile gloves .



:excellent:
Quote:

shronoob88 said:
I was saying about sub par yields simply because that's what I've read on here , and I just thought if I could, then I may as well bite the bullet and buy the PC and then be able to maximise yields by using grains . However I then read about the spore syringe being un sterile and to use Agar to grain.

So with regards to your reply , I'm understanding that you say I should still have a go at the PF tek so that I can dip my toe in the water then ?



Absolutely, you've got the stuff for it already! It's a solid route to go.
You can always think about improving yeilds later, IMO Better to have the hype of a succesful harvest and use that to inform future decisions.
:awesomenod:
Quote:

shronoob88 said:
So what is the difference between using the pf tek method as opposed to the spores to grain method ? As a total noob I would assume that if the unsterile part is the MSS then using a different tek would still be the same . What am I missing ?



Rather than THE difference, it's a combination of factors.
Some good discussion around the varying opinion on these factors in "Spores to Grain: Why it's discouraged & Recommended Alternatives".
A read of that should hopefully shed some light on the potential chances for failure in putting MSS straight to grain.

Quote:

the_chosen_one said:
You need to know what the corners are before cutting.




Quote:

shronoob88 said:
Sorry for any stupid questions.  And thanks for the help



:thumbup:
It's all good, once you get going you'll come to understand the process a lot better from practical experience. Have fun man and good luck!
:mushroomgrow:


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🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿ 🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿  🌬️ 🌻 ➞➞➞ ❮❮❮❮ 🌈 ❹⑤⓿


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OfflineKinoko314
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Re: Heating a space [Re: shronoob88]
    #28556325 - 11/25/23 05:47 PM (2 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

shronoob88 said:
So what is the difference between using the pf tek method as opposed to the spores to grain method ? As a total noob I would assume that if the unsterile part is the MSS then using a different tek would still be the same . What am I missing ?




The difference is that PF tek was designed to be used with spore syringes.  Bacteria is unable to spread across the vermiculite as it would on grain.  It gets stuck while your mycelium can keep colonizing the verm with no problem.


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Invisiblestarvinghooker
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Re: Heating a space [Re: shronoob88] * 1
    #28556566 - 11/25/23 09:45 PM (2 months, 1 day ago)

PF is different because of the structure of the mixture you're shooting into.  The loose grains of verm with BRF are good for mycelium growth while simultaneously helping to stop bacteria from spreading as easily, therefore favoring the myc giving it a much better chance to outpace the nasties. 

I'd never tell anyone they can't do something, but please do not inject spores directly to grains.  If you insist on using your syringe, use PFtek, or take the time to learn and use agar.  Once you use agar, you will never look back.

Good luck!

Edit: if I'm gonna continually be stupid enough to post answers to questions that have already be answered, I should probably take a break


--------------------
Grab life by the balls and yank on 'em til everything you want comes gushing out in thick, creamy ribbons

Noob like me? Start here!
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery



Edited by starvinghooker (11/25/23 09:48 PM)


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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Heating a space [Re: starvinghooker] * 1
    #28556571 - 11/25/23 10:00 PM (2 months, 1 day ago)

The room I grow in runs significantly colder than the range you mentioned. I'm not gonna quote numbers because the whole conversion factor thing just gets too wonky, but suffficed to say that it's a larger open space with rather anemic heating vents for its size, and windows that allow a ton of heat to escape.

People have different preferences. I always opt for colder over warmer (within acceptable parameters), for a number of reasons. I set my peak growing times for the colder months on purpose.

The one thing I'd advise you to keep in mind is that mushrooms are hererotrophic organisms with an exothermic metabolism. They generate their own heat, just like we do. This is often something that people fail to adequately factor in when thinking about supplemental heat.


--------------------
Beware of advice- even this.


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Offlineshronoob88
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Re: Heating a space [Re: B Traven] * 2
    #28556830 - 11/26/23 07:54 AM (2 months, 1 day ago)

All solid advice and cleared up alot of confusion for me . Thank you All very much , I will be doing a pf tek next weekend and I will start a thread once I do to keep you all updated to how I get on. I will also get soke agar plates and get this show properly on the road .


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Offlineshronoob88
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Re: Heating a space [Re: shronoob88]
    #28558451 - 11/27/23 02:47 PM (1 month, 30 days ago)

I've been reading up on agar, I'm going to get going with it pretty soon and want to make an inoculation loop.
When I inoculate the plates , I burn the loop , will the heat on the metal damage the spores that I squirted from my MSS to the shot glass ? Or how long do I leave it to cool ? Seems like a silly question but I thought that the quicker I do it the less chance of contam happening, but don't want to do it too quick if it'll kill the spores .

It's an absolute rabbit hole all this 🤣


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OfflineKinoko314
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Re: Heating a space [Re: shronoob88]
    #28558488 - 11/27/23 03:22 PM (1 month, 30 days ago)

Usually you would cool the loop by sticking it into an agar plate.  I haven't used a shot glass like that, but I would assume if you just stick the loop into the spore solution hot it will cool it without killing a significant amount of spores.  That could be a bad assumption though.  Sticking it in agar first would be safer.


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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Heating a space [Re: shronoob88] * 1
    #28558495 - 11/27/23 03:35 PM (1 month, 30 days ago)

Nice!

It's kind of a gray area, really. For instance, when we flame a blade for cutting into agar, we typically quench it right in the agar. The understanding is that we'll probably kill some myc around the edge of the wedge when we make the cut, but we'll also wnd up with a nice contaminant-free transfer.

In the case of an inoculating loop going into sterile water, I typically just go for that initial hiss, maybe a second, and then have at it. But it's worth playing around with a bit to see what works for you.


--------------------
Beware of advice- even this.


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Offlineshronoob88
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Re: Heating a space [Re: B Traven] * 1
    #28563911 - 12/01/23 02:45 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

Well, that's the brf cakes sterilised successfully.  However , my SAB technique was clunky , unorganised and basically a disaster.  Forgot to heat the needle for 1st 2 jars , 2 jars tipped and I forgot to bring a marker and now they're mixed up .
Total disaster. However I did learn a lot from my pathetic attempt. 

It's very surprising how something that looks so simple on videos (and probably is) , turns into an absolute dogs cock when done by a 1st timer in a flap. Nevermind we will see how it goes . I'm gonna have another attempt very soon . Need a bigger SAB, a proper desk and a more organised approach.


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OfflineBrokenHeart
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Re: Heating a space [Re: shronoob88]
    #28563922 - 12/01/23 02:56 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

I am finding in my case SAB is a learned skill and a piece of equipment. with the skill being the most important part.  My SAB moves look like they are out of the 3 stooges films not matrix


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InvisibleWay
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Re: Heating a space [Re: shronoob88]
    #28563932 - 12/01/23 03:08 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

Quote:

shronoob88 said:
Well, that's the brf cakes sterilised successfully.  However , my SAB technique was clunky , unorganised and basically a disaster.  Forgot to heat the needle for 1st 2 jars , 2 jars tipped and I forgot to bring a marker and now they're mixed up .
Total disaster. However I did learn a lot from my pathetic attempt. 

It's very surprising how something that looks so simple on videos (and probably is) , turns into an absolute dogs cock when done by a 1st timer in a flap. Nevermind we will see how it goes . I'm gonna have another attempt very soon . Need a bigger SAB, a proper desk and a more organised approach.




Like everything, proper aseptic procedure is a skill the grows with use. My first SAB experience went about the same.

Every time you get better. Once your brain stops thinking about every move you make and it becomes second nature. Keep plugging along!


--------------------

That's the way she goes, boys. Sometimes she goes, sometimes she doesn't, cause that's the fuckin way she goes.


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Offlineshronoob88
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Re: Heating a space [Re: Way]
    #28579779 - 12/12/23 09:40 AM (1 month, 15 days ago)

Update , 11 days have passed since unocculation and not much happening in my jars. I think I have the start of the mycelium growing, but at this rate it will be months before they colonise.  ..
Temps inside the cupboard as I suspected are not warm enough . Generally about 16c - 18c.
The problem is that the room doesn't really get passed 21c and the cupboard is on a gable end so the wall of the cupboard is cold . Which in turn makes the space inside the cupboard cold.

Today, I have added a heat mat underneath the jars with a gap above and a slightly raised platform and the jars are now sitting pretty at a steady 21c- 23c .

I have included pictures of basically nothing for anyone interested to see basically nothing . 🤣








Edited by shronoob88 (12/12/23 09:58 AM)


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OfflineKinoko314
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Re: Heating a space [Re: shronoob88] * 1
    #28579798 - 12/12/23 10:09 AM (1 month, 15 days ago)

Assuming you started with spores, they would take 3-10 days to germinate.  Considering you have visible growth on day 11, I'd say you're right on track.

I think it's still a little sketchy to have the mat underneath, even if spaced.  Why not put the mat against the cold wall?


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Offlineshronoob88
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Re: Heating a space [Re: Kinoko314]
    #28579816 - 12/12/23 10:42 AM (1 month, 15 days ago)

[url=https://files.shroomery.org/files/23-50/24001

I hadn't realised that was how long it took ! I thought it was really slow and I was running to low a temp .

In what way do you mean sketchy ? Like dangerous? Or ruin the cakes ?
I didn't really want to introduce the heat mat but like I say the jars were never getting above 16- 17 c


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OfflineSkropi
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Re: Heating a space [Re: shronoob88] * 1
    #28579823 - 12/12/23 10:51 AM (1 month, 15 days ago)

16-17C is ok, slower for sure, but from what I've read here, it is not a problem. The heating mat is risky because you may overheat parts of your cake, better to heat all your space equally.


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Ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, Μοῦσα, πολύτροπον


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InvisibleChanged


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Re: Heating a space [Re: Skropi]
    #28580182 - 12/12/23 04:32 PM (1 month, 15 days ago)

Are those full pint jars? PF Tek calls for 1/2 pints, as a full pint can cause the myc to stall out on the taller cakes...


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Offlineshronoob88
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Re: Heating a space [Re: Changed] * 1
    #28580724 - 12/13/23 02:36 AM (1 month, 15 days ago)

They're 16oz /450ml , there's only actually 350 ml of BRF cake , rest is dry verm . Hope I'm OK 🤞

I didn't realise it was strictly half pints . Although I did read that it was necessary to only use half pints if not using a PC.


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OfflineSkropi
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Re: Heating a space [Re: shronoob88]
    #28580903 - 12/13/23 07:28 AM (1 month, 15 days ago)

I am not sure, but I think even the shape of the containers matters, not just the volume. I've noticed that my glass jars do take a bit longer to colonize than my plastic jars, and the only difference is that they are a bit taller. It could be any other reason of course, but my sample is 8 plastic and 8 glass jars, so it does look like a pattern.
Everyone here is using the short jars, and I think that is the reason.


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OfflinePBJ710
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Re: Heating a space [Re: Skropi] * 3
    #28580917 - 12/13/23 07:36 AM (1 month, 15 days ago)

Pint jars and tall 1/2 pt jars have a tendency to stall out due to compression.  They can work but they are not as consistent as the short 1/2 pt jars.


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OfflineKinoko314
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Re: Heating a space [Re: shronoob88] * 1
    #28581064 - 12/13/23 10:10 AM (1 month, 14 days ago)

Quote:

shronoob88 said:

I hadn't realised that was how long it took ! I thought it was really slow and I was running to low a temp .

In what way do you mean sketchy ? Like dangerous? Or ruin the cakes ?
I didn't really want to introduce the heat mat but like I say the jars were never getting above 16- 17 c




I just mean that it could cause problems.  If the bottom of the jars isn't getting overheated, then it won't be a breeding ground for bacteria, so that's good.  Still, though, if you make the jars hotter than the space then you're going to be losing more water, and they'll dry out.  You'll probably get more condensation too, so you could have a situation where it looks wet, but really it's drying out.

Heat the space or insulate the wall that is your problem if you want the best results.


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