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Ythan
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Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. 2
#28542637 - 11/14/23 12:49 PM (6 months, 20 hours ago) |
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Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. www.wsj.com
EUGENE, Ore.—Soon after Oregon became the first state to decriminalize all drugs, Officer Jose Alvarez stopped arresting people for possession and began giving out tickets with the number for a rehab helpline.
Most of the people smoking fentanyl or meth on this city’s streets balled them up and tossed them onto the ground.
“Those tickets frankly seemed like a waste of time,” said Alvarez, who stopped issuing them a few months after the law went into effect.
Nearly three years into an experiment that proponents hoped would spark a nationwide relaxation of drug laws, many in Oregon have turned against the decriminalization initiative known as Measure 110, which passed with 58% support in 2020.
People sprawled on sidewalks and using fentanyl with no fear of consequence have become a common sight in cities such as Eugene and Portland. Business owners and local leaders are upset, but so are liberal voters who hoped decriminalization would lead to more people getting help. In reality, few drug users are taking advantage of new state-funded rehabilitation programs.
Change appears likely. A coalition of city officials, police chiefs and district attorneys recently called on the state legislature to recriminalize hard drugs. A measure to do so is in the works for next year’s ballot. A recent poll found the majority of Oregonians support the idea.
The fundamental problem, according to law-enforcement officers and researchers, is that the threat of jail time hasn’t been replaced with a new incentive for people struggling with addiction to seek treatment. Some 6,000 tickets have been issued for drug possession since decriminalization went into effect in 2021, but just 92 people have called and completed assessments needed to connect them to services, according to the nonprofit that operates the helpline.
The only penalty for those who don’t call is a $100 fine, which is rarely enforced.
Before the law went into effect, people caught with small amounts of drugs were typically given a choice of court-mandated rehab or criminal sanctions such as jail time or probation.
“It was not a crazy thing to try at all, but I think they misunderstood addiction,” said Keith Humphreys, a Stanford professor who has studied the measure. “They really had the assumption that if you decriminalize, people would come rushing in saying, ‘Please, give me treatment,’ but addiction is not like cancer where people crawl through broken glass to get treatment.”
The number of fatal overdoses in Oregon during the 12 months that ended in May rose 23% from the same period a year earlier to 1,500, according to preliminary federal data. That is the third-highest increase in the nation, behind Washington and Nevada.
Advocates of drug decriminalization blame Oregon’s continued problems on nationwide trends, including the rise of deadly fentanyl and increased homelessness.
They say Measure 110 is already succeeding at one of its goals: keeping people out of the criminal-justice system for drug possession. About 4,000 people were arrested for drug offenses in Oregon in 2022, down from 11,000 in 2020.
Rather than using the threat of jail time, advocates for decriminalization say they are persuading people to get treatment by having them talk to former drug users.
“When people access services voluntarily…that’s really powerful and effective,” said Tera Hurst, executive director of the Health Justice Recovery Alliance, a nonprofit focused on implementing Measure 110.
Chris Wig, executive director of Emergence Addiction and Behavioral Therapies in Eugene, said though more people are getting peer support through programs funded by the measure, fewer are getting treatment. He said there has been a 25% drop in participation in Emergence’s programs.
“There are people who were getting treatment before who are not getting it now,” he said. “It’s people who were involved in the criminal justice system.”
A regretful pioneer
Oregon was the first state to decriminalize possession of marijuana, in 1973. Taking the same pioneering approach to hard drugs in 2020 proved easy, as Measure 110 faced little organized opposition.
Michelle Loew, a 56-year-old bookstore clerk in Eugene, voted for it enthusiastically. A Grateful Dead fan who has experimented with mind-altering substances, Loew long supported liberalizing Oregon’s drug laws to be more like those of the Netherlands.
But as she watched public drug use flourish in this city of 175,000, she feared she had voted the wrong way.
“There is constant problems all over town—it doesn’t matter where you live—with people strung out on drugs,” said Loew, who described herself as a communist. “I pride myself on being a bit cynical, but obviously I was very naive.”
Overdose calls to Eugene police rose to 823 last year from 438 in 2020. So far this year, there have been 858. Though researchers attribute the rise in overdoses to the prevalence of fentanyl rather than the decriminalization measure, the drug problem has become more visible than ever.
On a recent morning, Janina Rager, a community-engagement specialist with the Eugene police, roused a man who was sprawled in front of Gardner Floor Covering, a family-run store downtown. She asked him to leave and clean up the garbage that surrounded him, including bits of aluminum foil that are typically used as wrappers for meth or fentanyl.
The shop’s owner, Matt Siegmund, said the number of people loitering and doing drugs in front of his store has doubled since the measure passed. Customers are scared to walk in now, he said. Each morning, his employees must clear the sidewalk of debris that often includes feces or needles.
“It just keeps getting worse,” said Siegmund. “I feel like these people on the streets have more rights than I do.”
Rager swings by frequently to shoo people away, but the problem is unceasing. Eugene Police Chief Chris Skinner said most officers in his department, like Alvarez, have given up on issuing the drug-possession tickets.
“We don’t see people getting well as a result of issuing citations, and so it’s hard to get really excited about doing that work,” the chief said.
No reason to stay sober
On a recent weekday in downtown Portland, a man explained the varieties of fentanyl to a tourist who wanted to know what everyone was smoking off of small squares of aluminum foil. There were dozens of people doing it in the area, some swaying like zombies, others crumpled on the sidewalk.
The man said getting arrested three years ago motivated him to get clean. He got a job at a gas station and stayed sober because it was required while he was on probation. But as soon as he finished probation last fall, he was back on drugs.
“I didn’t have a reason to keep clean and sober after that,” he said.
Advocates for Measure 110 hope to have a more lasting effect by getting people into treatment voluntarily. Joe Bazeghi, the director of engagement for Recovery Works Northwest, said his organization, which is funded under the new measure, is now setting up rehab facilities for people addicted to fentanyl and making progress in persuading people to request treatment.
Bazeghi said he visits homeless encampments around Portland where he first tries to help people with basic needs such as health insurance, housing or food. Only later does he begin to talk to them about rehabilitation, based on his own experience with recovery.
“We go in as peers ourselves,” he said. “Everyone has been very welcoming to us.”
Changing course
Other states that once seemed likely to follow Oregon’s lead are pumping the brakes. Earlier this year Washington’s Democratic Gov. Jay Inslee signed a law that boosts funding for treatment while maintaining criminal penalties for drug possession.
Oregon State Sen. Floyd Prozanski, a Democrat from the Eugene area who chairs a subcommittee focused on Measure 110, said he wants to see fixes to the law in next year’s legislative session. One idea on the table is taking people off the streets for 72 hours after they overdose.
Prozanski said he opposes bringing back criminal sanctions for drug possession.
Max Williams, former director of the Oregon state prison system, said he is skeptical the state legislature will make adequate changes to the law. He heads a group preparing a measure for next year’s ballot that would again make it a crime to possess hard drugs such as fentanyl, while keeping in place the new funding for treatment, which comes from cannabis taxes.
“There is an old expression that states are the laboratories of democracy,” said Williams. “But that’s sort of distorted when you’re not the laboratory but you’re the lab rat.”
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stubb
Dahg Rastubfari


Registered: 03/23/19
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Loc: Memory
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: Ythan] 2
#28542694 - 11/14/23 01:40 PM (6 months, 19 hours ago) |
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Quote:
“We don’t see people getting well as a result of issuing citations, and so it’s hard to get really excited about doing that work,” the chief said.
Taking people into custody for to impose sanctions doesn't sound like terribly exciting work either, but maybe that's just me.  I'm quite sure the chief of police isn't following up on well-being of people they arrest for drug possession, is there any actual data on this? Is sufficient help even available for addicts in Oregon?
Edited by stubb (11/20/23 08:48 AM)
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: Ythan] 2
#28542839 - 11/14/23 03:29 PM (6 months, 18 hours ago) |
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It is a bias article. There are other articles that discuss that they are modeling off of Portugal. And everything increased before decreasing. Also the laws passed before they got the monies to support it. It's very bias. Oregon overdose rate is consistent with overdose rates across the country. I had a response written and cited my sources. But I have COVID and cant even think straight my head hurts so bad. I closed my window. When I feel better I'll cite my sources. They are not difficult to find.
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GenesisCorrupted
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: Ythan] 1
#28543403 - 11/14/23 10:32 PM (6 months, 11 hours ago) |
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OK I’ve been wanting to talk about this for a while. I believe that this was purposely done half cocked just to show people a bad example of decriminalization.
Since this was done by referendum. They first needed to put in the safe use facilities. They didn’t put in the safe needle exchanges. They didn’t put in the therapy programs needed.
They just said “hey how about, all the drugs are legal now. I’m sure this will be fine.”
Of course it’s not.
Amsterdam didn’t just legalize all drugs one day. They had all the Facilities in place to be able to handle an influx of people using drugs.
By not having those facilities in place. This was a purposefully poor attempt. Made to sabotage any effort to legalize psychedelics in our country. It is a despicable act.
This has all been a front just to make us, and people like us, look bad. It’s been killing a lot of homeless people also.
I got a little heated. That’s all I have to say. They need to pass more things by referendum to fix this. So it stops being an example of unsafe legalization. Sincerely, GC
Edited by GenesisCorrupted (11/18/23 12:49 PM)
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Jacubey
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: GenesisCorrupted] 1
#28543723 - 11/15/23 08:30 AM (6 months, 1 hour ago) |
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Let's not also forget that the USA is a very large place with different laws in different areas. It's pretty unique from other countries in that respect. Because of that, people abusing hard drugs outside of Oregon are more likely to move to Oregon so they can continue using their drugs. For something like this to work we'd need nation wide decriminalization as well as good programs to make it go over well.
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loladoreen


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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: Ythan] 2
#28543754 - 11/15/23 08:58 AM (6 months, 38 minutes ago) |
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You think people in active addiction using fentanyl have the means to move cross country to Oregon?
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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oursoulsinmotion
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: loladoreen]
#28543850 - 11/15/23 10:03 AM (5 months, 30 days ago) |
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I know ppl personally who go between Portland &Seattle who sell all their stuff to maintain their habits ,get better &buy stuff then sell it again when theyre needing to use again
-------------------- Alikchi...., Alikchi...., Alikchi.... ♡
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: oursoulsinmotion]
#28543854 - 11/15/23 10:09 AM (5 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
oursoulsinmotion said: I know ppl personally who go between Portland &Seattle who sell all their stuff to maintain their habits ,get better &buy stuff then sell it again when they're needing to use again
Yes, I feel they are selling my stuff... not joking I have been the victim of many thefts in the last 18 months.
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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PBJ710
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: loladoreen] 2
#28543876 - 11/15/23 10:41 AM (5 months, 30 days ago) |
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Being a drug user doesn't absolve a person of their responsibilities to society as a whole. I'm a big proponent of letting people consume whatever they want/need (including ALL prescription drugs) but that doesn't mean it's ok to steal or to be a cancer on the community because you chose to consume something. Just as with firearms, it's not the tools a person has available that are the issue - it's their actions with the tools that can be. LEO's failure to enforce crimes against people/property/statutory crimes is promoting this kind of end result.
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GenesisCorrupted
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: PBJ710]
#28543878 - 11/15/23 10:45 AM (5 months, 30 days ago) |
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I think it’s just the idea of there being basically an island where you can go, and there are no rules. Sounds ridiculous. Also, why aren’t there any Facilities put into place? To actually take care of this massive influx of drug users. It’s basically a planned obsolescence project. Just to make sure that psychedelics are bastardized and they can constantly point at Oregon as the example of why we can never legalize it.
There’s no way that was an accident.
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sonoramo
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: GenesisCorrupted] 1
#28543947 - 11/15/23 11:55 AM (5 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: ...I believe that this was purposely done half cocked just to show people a bad example of decriminalization...
I'd sooner believe that the changes in OR have to do with lack of reliable data. Despite experience in the rest of the world, conditions in the US are conditions in the US, and nobody really knows how addicts here (as a group) will respond to any given change.
Another factor is that Oregon's law changed by citizen-written initiative. While I greatly appreciate the way the initiative process enables voters to bypass the pathetic stuck-ness of right-left or red-blue politics, initiatives don't go through the review, debate and amendment process that "normal" lawmaking gets.
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GenesisCorrupted
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: sonoramo]
#28543951 - 11/15/23 11:59 AM (5 months, 30 days ago) |
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Well, if it literally had no choice, but to just be pushed through. Then why was the bill so poorly drafted so as to not include any of those facilities that I mentioned being built? People should’ve just not voted on a bill that bad. Which sucks. People were too excited for the prospect of having drugs decriminalized to really think about how bad a bill that was. If they had just waited, they would probably have a better bill passed by now.
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sonoramo
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
#28543991 - 11/15/23 12:49 PM (5 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: Well, if it literally had no choice, but to just be pushed through. Then why was the bill so poorly drafted so as to not include any of those facilities that I mentioned being built? People should’ve just not voted on a bill that bad. Which sucks. People were too excited for the prospect of having drugs decriminalized to really think about how bad a bill that was. If they had just waited, they would probably have a better bill passed by now.
It was an initiative measure. A citizen group wrote it, and people only get to vote yes or no. Waiting sucks as well, since it's a 2-year election cycle. Since there's no feedback process (other than polling, which is too expensive for most citizen groups), waiting doesn't guarantee a better measure could be offered two years later.
The "real" way to do this is through normal legislation. Then there's debate and amendment. Problem is, psychedelic decriminalization is still too scary for the politicians, even though most voters would be in favor. The same thing happened with cannabis. In 1996, CA legalized medical cannabis by initiative and it was a total mess, with nonsensical "cannabis cards" required to buy at a dispensary. But it happened, even though the state legislature then (as now) was mostly full of  s. The 2016 recreational cannabis legalization initiative wasn't much better.
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GenesisCorrupted
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: sonoramo]
#28543995 - 11/15/23 12:53 PM (5 months, 30 days ago) |
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So we trusted citizens with drafting this thing. Citizens don’t understand what the impacts of Something Simple can be.
Just saying, I want all drugs to be legal. Without actually having the infrastructure to handle that. It’s basically a detriment. It’s not their fault I guess. Like you said, waiting sucks ass. But it sounds like they need to draft up another bill and pass it with another citizen measure. Get a bunch of low income housing, safe needle exchanges, and drug rehabilitation centers built.
With that, I think we will watch that community turn into a normal community again. With legal drugs.
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nooneman


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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: Ythan] 1
#28544635 - 11/15/23 09:56 PM (5 months, 30 days ago) |
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They haven't tried anything other than passing the law, and when doing nothing didn't work, they immediately want to throw everyone in jail again (because that was working great). Maybe try something, anything, before just immediately assuming jail is the only solution to every problem.
You know what will happen if they recriminalize? They won't just stop at fentanyl or opiates, they'll be throwing LSD and psychedelic users in jail again right along side them. At the very least don't throw the baby out with the bathwater ffs.
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DonJuan7
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: nooneman]
#28544639 - 11/15/23 10:00 PM (5 months, 30 days ago) |
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Continuing the drug war is not working in Oregon, big surprise. Legalize the plants now or shut the fuck up.
Edited by DonJuan7 (11/15/23 10:00 PM)
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: GenesisCorrupted] 1
#28547901 - 11/18/23 12:42 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: OK I’ve been wanting to talk about this for a while. I believe that this was purposely done half cocked just to show people a bad example of decriminalization.
They didn’t put in the safe use facilities. They didn’t put in the safe needle exchanges. They didn’t put in the therapy programs needed.
They just said “hey how about, all the drugs are legal now. I’m sure this will be fine.”
Of course it’s not.
Amsterdam didn’t just legalize all drugs one day. They had all the Facilities in place to be able to handle an influx of people using drugs.
By not having those facilities in place. This was a purposefully poor attempt. Made to sabotage any effort to legalize psychedelics in our country. It is a despicable act.
This has all been a front just to make us, and people like us, look bad. It’s been killing a lot of homeless people also.
I got a little heated. That’s all I have to say. Sincerely, GC
It was done by referendum, wasn't it? The government didn't want to decriminalize drugs. There are plenty of examples to follow, like Portugal, if they actually did want this to succeed. I can't imagine how much money the state is losing from federal prison funding and shit like that. I don't pretend to know how it all works, though.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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GenesisCorrupted
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#28547905 - 11/18/23 12:48 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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I need to go back and edit that comment. I commented on it after. It is done by referendum. I think they just needed to actually think out what they were doing. Maybe having passed a couple before that to put in place those things I said. It’s not too late. They should just pass another couple things through referendum to do those safe use Facilities and needle exchanges and therapy centers.
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,485
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: GenesisCorrupted] 1
#28547929 - 11/18/23 01:31 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: I need to go back and edit that comment. I commented on it after. It is done by referendum. I think they just needed to actually think out what they were doing. Maybe having passed a couple before that to put in place those things I said. It’s not too late. They should just pass another couple things through referendum to do those safe use Facilities and needle exchanges and therapy centers.
Agreed It was passed before they got the funding to put programs in place. Playing catch up right now. It was modeled after Portugal.
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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sonoramo
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: GenesisCorrupted] 1
#28548039 - 11/18/23 02:55 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: ...It is done by referendum...
Almost. "Referendum" means the legislature composes a bill and puts it on the ballot for voters to decide. In some states, state Constitutional amendments have to go through that process. But Measure 110 was an "initiative," meaning ordinary citizens who wanted to see the Portugal model put in place wrote it and put it on the ballot.
Whatever you think of legislators' character, they are the "pros" with access to legal analysis, budget analysis and staff who review the text. There was money to support writing Measure 110, just not the kind of resources and debate that would have taken place before a legislative referendum got on the ballot. And way less than would have taken place had the chichen-shit legislators done their jobs and written the legislation that the people of OR obviously wanted.
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GenesisCorrupted
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: sonoramo]
#28548045 - 11/18/23 02:57 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Excellent comment. Excellent hat…
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,485
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: sonoramo]
#28548089 - 11/18/23 03:22 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
sonoramo said:
Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: ...It is done by referendum...
Almost. "Referendum" means the legislature composes a bill and puts it on the ballot for voters to decide. In some states, state Constitutional amendments have to go through that process. But Measure 110 was an "initiative," meaning ordinary citizens who wanted to see the Portugal model put in place wrote it and put it on the ballot.
Whatever you think of legislators' character, they are the "pros" with access to legal analysis, budget analysis and staff who review the text. There was money to support writing Measure 110, just not the kind of resources and debate that would have taken place before a legislative referendum got on the ballot. And way less than would have taken place had the chichen-shit legislators done their jobs and written the legislation that the people of OR obviously wanted.
You're right about all of it. Once passed the money was not there. Some very good programs are coming forward. Had it of been handled differently I think we would've been prepared. No one was prepared. No one. I still completely support it. You're right they were chicken shit.... They still are.
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,485
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: Ythan] 1
#28548093 - 11/18/23 03:25 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Nothing good comes out of woulda coulda. Or punishing and blaming. Definitely going to take some time. I will not be bitter or pessimistic . I'll definitely continue to support . And I do a lot. And I have been a victim of awful crime this last year. I am still choosing to go forward.
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
#28548215 - 11/18/23 05:07 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: I need to go back and edit that comment. I commented on it after. It is done by referendum. I think they just needed to actually think out what they were doing. Maybe having passed a couple before that to put in place those things I said. It’s not too late. They should just pass another couple things through referendum to do those safe use Facilities and needle exchanges and therapy centers.
Unfortunately, I'm quite sure that if Oregon created safe-use centers, like they have in Portugal, the Federal government would step in and arrest everyone involved on Federal charges. You can't have a state dolling out heroin to people. That's literally spitting in the face of the Federal government, instead of just not enforcing their laws.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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GenesisCorrupted
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#28548254 - 11/18/23 05:44 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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It doesn’t have to be heroin. There are synthetics now that can be used to safely get people off of this stuff. The federal government needs to seriously stop dragging his feet. I’m tired of waiting for progress. We need to pass more stuff with referendum, if they’re not going to do stuff anything for us.
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
#28548258 - 11/18/23 05:46 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: It doesn’t have to be heroin. There are synthetics now that can be used to safely get people off of this stuff. The federal government needs to seriously stop dragging his feet. I’m tired of waiting for progress. We need to pass more stuff with referendum, if they’re not going to do stuff anything for us.
Really? What synthetics?
I'm a heroin addict myself lmao
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




Registered: 08/01/23
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#28548261 - 11/18/23 05:50 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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I’m sure there’s more. But this is what I was able to find. That would be able to affectively get you off of that poison. Of course it’s something that is literally only made in very specific laboratories around the world. It’s not something you’d be able to just go and get.
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
#28548263 - 11/18/23 05:51 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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I’m not sure they have some thing that is comparable though. It would be best to just use the H itself.
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oursoulsinmotion
Come Down To Us



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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
#28548313 - 11/18/23 06:31 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Is the fishbowl still soggy??
-------------------- Alikchi...., Alikchi...., Alikchi.... ♡
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: oursoulsinmotion]
#28548314 - 11/18/23 06:32 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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How are you today?
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oursoulsinmotion
Come Down To Us



Registered: 10/04/21
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: Ythan]
#28548341 - 11/18/23 06:53 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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All over the place Yu?
-------------------- Alikchi...., Alikchi...., Alikchi.... ♡
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: oursoulsinmotion]
#28548348 - 11/18/23 06:58 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Firmly stuck in one place. Sounds like we should trade.
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: GenesisCorrupted] 1
#28548387 - 11/18/23 07:35 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: I’m not sure they have some thing that is comparable though. It would be best to just use the H itself.
It sounds like that's something akin to suboxone. In Portugal, they actually use heroin. If they had a program like that in Oregon, I would move there tomorrow.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (11/18/23 07:36 PM)
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,485
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: Ythan] 1
#28548438 - 11/18/23 08:09 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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The overdose rate was so high they handed out suboxone. I believe that could be what he may he referencing. That was not in Oregon though. Where I live we're starting what they call mobile crisis units. Literally going to them for all harm reduction supplies including suboxone. Methadone needs to be more accessible but it poses a greater overdose risk. Subuclade is successful. Not as popular. Methadone is great for fentanyl. Agree they're not giving away dark or pills. They never will.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/new-jersey-county-uses-innovative-program-to-treat-and-prevent-drug-overdoses/
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: loladoreen] 1
#28548636 - 11/18/23 11:49 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
loladoreen said: The overdose rate was so high they handed out suboxone. I believe that could be what he may he referencing. That was not in Oregon though. Where I live we're starting what they call mobile crisis units. Literally going to them for all harm reduction supplies including suboxone. Methadone needs to be more accessible but it poses a greater overdose risk. Subuclade is successful. Not as popular. Methadone is great for fentanyl. Agree they're not giving away dark or pills. They never will.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/new-jersey-county-uses-innovative-program-to-treat-and-prevent-drug-overdoses/
We got a spot where you can go get a whole box of needles, a crack pipe, and a meth pipe, plus cottons, a cooker, chore... Everything you can imagine and then some shit you wouldn't even think of..
I'm on Sublocade rn... I fuckin hate it. I don't like getting the shot, it hurts like a bitch for a few days... It's a fairly effective deterrent, though. If I want to get high, I have to spend a lot more money on dope, and my habit already wasn't affordable.
I've had a lot of addictions in my life. Opiates are just a whole different problem than anything else. It's the one thing... Man.. it's a motherfucker..
The thing with opiates too, is you're constantly playing with potentially dying... And I think the whole thing of sticking a needle in your arm, and shooting up a potential lethal dose on a regular basis... Makes a person consider suicide a lot more than normal people. Especially because the life of a junky is not for the faint of heart.
When you know you can just bump the dosage up a little bit, and slip away into the night... Never have to beg, borrow, or steal again... Never have to approach getting your life on any sort of meaningful track, only to fall off again. Never have to face all of those people you can't face anymore. I think a lot of overdoses are intentional.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (11/18/23 11:55 PM)
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




Registered: 08/01/23
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#28548638 - 11/18/23 11:54 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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I’ve seen what that can do to people. It’s really hard. Ayahuasca and Ibogaine could be natural treatment options. They actually reset part of your brain that is causing the addiction. Research has been limited, of course. Because it isn’t a pill. But I have noticed since using Ayahusca, that I have very little desire to use marijuana. Where there used to be a very strong desire to use it. I’m sure it’s nothing compared to the addiction you have. But it could still be applied. Something to think about. I like you. Makes me sad to know that you’re suffering like that.
Edited by GenesisCorrupted (11/19/23 12:51 AM)
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
#28549209 - 11/19/23 02:04 PM (5 months, 26 days ago) |
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I've been doing a lot better this past couple months, so.. My girlfriend gets out of prison in like 10 days, so I can't be around her if I'm still using dope.
I have some MHRB to do a DMT extraction from, for me and another guy I met on the shroomery. I just haven't gotten the naphtha to do it yet, and I need to! A few other guys on here told me I should go to an ibogaine treatment place in Mexico or something. Idk... That shit scares the fuck out of me lol!
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#28549214 - 11/19/23 02:11 PM (5 months, 26 days ago) |
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The Ayahusca feels like the only thing I can speak confidently on. Boga sounds very cool. I watched a vice video on in a while ago. I would be very skeptical of going to any ceremonies. But it doesn’t sound like something that would be too bad to play with.
If you can’t get the Nympha . You could probably get the Syrian rue seeds. This is my recipe for using those two ingredients together. Very consistent results. Just don’t re-dose. If you go into these trips with the intention of improving yourself. And destroying your addiction. I do believe that you would be able to conquer it.
It’s not getting off of it though. It’s the relapse that you need to look out for.
Try to eliminate anything in your environment that reminds you of it. Or makes you think about using.
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halo
Tripper


Registered: 11/01/07
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: GenesisCorrupted] 2
#28549222 - 11/19/23 02:17 PM (5 months, 26 days ago) |
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I don't understand fentanyl addiction, or why so many people are okay with living on the streets and doing shitty drugs.
My enjoyment of drugs is one of the many things that motivates me to be a relatively normal person who has a job and housing. I understand many of these people are mentally ill, but frankly, I prefer to get high in the safety and comfort of my home than I do out in public. Whether it's just weed or harder stuff, I just don't get the appeal of doing drugs in public.
Seems to me a reasonable solution would be drugs are decriminalized/legalized for use in the home, but illegal to use in public. In most places in the USA, you can't sit on a public bench and get drunk all day, why do they let people smoke fentanyl or meth in public?
-------------------- All drugs should be legal
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: halo] 1
#28549228 - 11/19/23 02:23 PM (5 months, 26 days ago) |
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I don’t think they let them. I don’t think they have the ability to help them. It’s almost to the point now. Where there is so much crime happening. That policeman only respond to the highest demand crimes.
Those people need rehab. They don’t want to be using drugs on the street. It’s not like they had a choice. Most of those people became addicted. Then lost their homes. That’s why they’re still out there using those drugs. Those drugs are so addictive, they destroyed their entire lives.
I don’t think you meant for your comment to come off as callous. But I bet all of those people out there using drugs would rather be in homes.
Edited by GenesisCorrupted (11/19/23 11:49 PM)
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,485
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: Ythan] 1
#28549254 - 11/19/23 02:44 PM (5 months, 26 days ago) |
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Last time I was in Mexico I met brothers who run an ibogaine clinic. Im going in April. Im accompanying my friend . She has a lifelong addiction to meth and opioid. It's very promising but you still have to have behavioral changes.
Yes I would agree they would love to be in their own homes. I rarely come across people who refuse or state they don't want a home. There are some but definitely the minority.
Subs are a great alternative. But difficult for many to get.
Fentanyl addiction is very isolating. Opioid addiction as a whole is completely different then other drugs. Fentanyl is a different level. I just had someone turned away from detox because their tolerance is so high they can't comfortably help them. I considered them an average user. People need help.
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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viraldrome



Registered: 09/21/18
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: halo] 1
#28549696 - 11/19/23 10:49 PM (5 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
halo said: I prefer to get high in the safety and comfort of my home than I do out in public. Whether it's just weed or harder stuff, I just don't get the appeal of doing drugs in public.
Unless you have a sober person standing by with narcan doing fentanyl alone at home is high risk of death. The idea of public use is if you OD someone will come along and narcan you.
I get what you are saying though, every bus shelter in my city is full of addicts doing drugs, I must have seen 100 of them this morning on my commute. Nothing good about public drug use. I'm fine with decrim, but public use is everywhere, in your face, on public transit too. I think the penalty for public use should be an immediate forced narcaning by police.
My city has supervised injection site, but majority of users here smoke rather than inject so it serves little purpose. I think you could open up 50 places to use drugs and public use would still be a problem. These people can't walk a block without hitting the tinfoil again, its not really mangeable. And we can never go back, hardcore fentanyl addicts don't want legal weaker opioids. There is no way out of this epidemic. And it just keeps getting worse.
-------------------- Lysergamides I have tried so far: 1P-LSD, 1cP-LSD, ALD-52, AL-LAD, LSZ, ETH-LAD, MIPLA, EIPLA, 1cP-AL-LAD
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,485
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: Ythan] 2
#28549949 - 11/20/23 08:33 AM (5 months, 26 days ago) |
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There's always a way out. Always We didn't think we would survive crack or meth. Fentanyl is ... a whole different level. But somehow it'll level off. I see an increase in people going to detox lately. Detox get closed often. They can't afford to stay open. We're facing some big challenges. You don't stop. Everyone is deserving
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,485
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: Ythan] 2
#28549951 - 11/20/23 08:34 AM (5 months, 26 days ago) |
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I agree it often feels hopeless and all uphill I can't stop I wont
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: halo]
#28550890 - 11/20/23 09:51 PM (5 months, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
halo said: I don't understand fentanyl addiction, or why so many people are okay with living on the streets and doing shitty drugs.
My enjoyment of drugs is one of the many things that motivates me to be a relatively normal person who has a job and housing. I understand many of these people are mentally ill, but frankly, I prefer to get high in the safety and comfort of my home than I do out in public. Whether it's just weed or harder stuff, I just don't get the appeal of doing drugs in public.
Seems to me a reasonable solution would be drugs are decriminalized/legalized for use in the home, but illegal to use in public. In most places in the USA, you can't sit on a public bench and get drunk all day, why do they let people smoke fentanyl or meth in public?
Wow... Such a simple, yet perfect solution. What a great idea lol!
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



Registered: 12/07/13
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Last seen: 14 minutes, 13 seconds
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: loladoreen] 2
#28550893 - 11/20/23 09:56 PM (5 months, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
loladoreen said: I agree it often feels hopeless and all uphill I can't stop I wont
I love you.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




Registered: 08/01/23
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#28550896 - 11/20/23 09:57 PM (5 months, 25 days ago) |
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I agree, she is super cool.
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,485
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Re: Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs. It Isn’t Working. [Re: Ythan] 2
#28550905 - 11/20/23 10:05 PM (5 months, 25 days ago) |
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Thank you
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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