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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Nutrition misinformation * 1
    #28539614 - 11/12/23 12:28 AM (2 months, 15 days ago)

There is so much misinformation being pushed, where do we start?

The "food pyramid" was popularized in the 70's.  It is complete BS.  No human society in the history of the world had ever tried such a diet.  Look at the consequences!  It's killed millions.     

Fat is still be demonized.  "Low fat" does not mean it's healthy.  Our brain is 60% fat. We need fat.   

If meat is carcinogenic (as many "experts" claim), how did wolves, lions, bears, tigers, baboons, bonobos, and chimpanzees evolved and survive on meat?   

More than 36 million Americans have preventable diabetes.  But we refuse to talk about metabolic disorder, which severely effects 1 in 3 people. 

Health experts still recommend drinking eight 8-ounce glasses of water per day, which equals about 2 liters.  Uh, no.  That can actually cause health problems due to electrolyte loss.  Do you think wild chimps drink 2 liters of water every day?  Come on man.

Poor food choices contribute to neuromuscular & neurodegenerative disease risks.  Michael J. Fox - why won't you talk about this and spread the word?


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Nutrition misinformation [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28541998 - 11/13/23 08:55 PM (2 months, 13 days ago)

The global fiber supplement market is now 18 billion USD$.  The global laxative market size is currently 7 billion USD$.  So called "experts" claim 95% of Americans have a fiber deficiency.  You don't need plant fiber to crap regularly or to "maintain a healthy gut microbiome".

Nearly half of Americans have high blood pressure.  We refuse to tackle root causes and instead we scream about sodium.

I eat yogurt that contains less than a gram of sugar.  Below is a photo of part of the nutrition label.  I've seen a number of these labels on various foods.

Have you ever seen a label on quinoa, cookies, French bread, rice, or pasta - that warn about seeking a doctors advice before eating a high carb diet?

Just more crazy demonization of fat . . . 



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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Nutrition misinformation [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28544067 - 11/15/23 01:59 PM (2 months, 11 days ago)

Tons of nutritional misinformation for sure. Im not sure what the 70's food pyramid looks like but a low sugar/salt, high grain diet is a decent diet in my opinion.

Ive heard theres a new Government "food pie" chart thats a lot more accurate.

The low fat thing is dumb for sure. Its for people who are overweight i guess. But it should be more specific: low in saturated fat or trans fat is what is healthier. Not all fats are unhealthy Government :nonono:


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Nutrition misinformation [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #28544100 - 11/15/23 02:27 PM (2 months, 11 days ago)

I think they have to put the warning because when keto diets became popular I had friends that were on it eating only fat and fatty foods. Not understanding some fat is healthy but its not healthy when you overload yourself.
Some people need it because they don't know.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Nutrition misinformation [Re: loladoreen]
    #28544227 - 11/15/23 04:23 PM (2 months, 11 days ago)

Fats are needed to keep your brain functioning. Protein is needed to keep your muscles functioning. Carbohydrates are the filler calories that you don't really need, but can cheaply get you up to your caloric intake requirements.

High protein diets damage your kidneys, because the excess protein gets processed into energy, which means you have a shitload of amines left over for your kidneys to deal with.

I don't think I've ever read anything about high fat diets being problematic, apart from making you smell like acetone.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Nutrition misinformation [Re: Kryptos]
    #28545904 - 11/16/23 10:47 PM (2 months, 10 days ago)

Many nutritionists say the human gut is not specialized for eating lots of plant products. The demonizing of saturated fats and also cholesterol is misleading, as both can be healthy, if you avoid eating a lot of carbs. It's not black and white. Cholesterol is very important, and alone is not a risk factor. Lots of evidence statins are not the lifesavers they are sold as.

Since trying 95% animal-based eating since July, it has been an amazing and weird journey. Decades of gut issues have disappeared. Skin is much clearer, and mental health very improved. My brain and my body loves fat!  Many heart doctors are promoting carnivore.  You will never see them on TV!  Never... 

I was very skeptical.  I've never purchased butter before in my life. My erectile functioning is like it was 2 decades ago.  I've lost 30 pounds.  One crazy thing is that I smell great.  I've never smelled like this before. I cannot describe it. (I think the "acetone" thing is a myth) No more bloating.  Blood pressure is now 110 over 70 something.

I have about 5-10% of the gas I've experienced for decades. It's so damn weird! Many cultures do not eat plants and are quite healthy - and lack obesity or high bp or CV disease.  People say, "Oh they have special genes for eating only meat"  Really?

And vegetable & seed oils are very harmful. Why has the media never talked about this?

Tons of food have that crap in them . . .  

The keto diet (high-fat, low-carb) has been used to treat epilepsy since the 1920s. Carbohydrate rooted diseases are everywhere - from diabetes to neurological disorders.  It kills millions - yet we ignore the causes.


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Re: Nutrition misinformation [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 2
    #28545939 - 11/16/23 11:31 PM (2 months, 10 days ago)

I agree that fats are demonized. And I'm glad you are benefitting from an animal-product-only diet, but plants can also be an excellent addition to a diet. One has to select them more carefully and avoid processed additions.

Everything is made with white flour, which has the bran and germ removed, thus making it much lower in fiber. Whole bran flour as a replacement has a much lower GI, meaning it shoots the blood sugar up slower. The soluble fiber in bran, especially, has been shown in a lot of studies to help with pre-diabetes symptoms and to help with a number of gut ailments. The fibers are digested partly by a lot of bacteria.

India, despite the general poverty in the country, still has a quite high life expectancy considering (70), which I would attribute to their diet. And a good chunk, 39%, are vegetarian. Now, to be fair, they are very prolific consumers of milk products, so they are not completely plant-based. But many of their dishes are. The way I think they keep their diet healthy is the mix of different vegetables, the use of spices (which can be anti-inflammatory), the use of proteins like paneer or daal and the sparing use of white flour - you can see they have a good mix of many micronutrients and a truly varied diet.

The American problem is especially sugars, which can directly lead to problems with weight management because of the way the body processes sugar, calories being equal. They add high fructose to many things, even sometimes the bread at fast food places; they add it to many packaged products, nutrition bars and the like, the things we feed children. And too much white flour at once, or pasta or other simple carbs, has the same effect as sugar in the end. A person would benefit by replacing these simple sugars. Some animal products as you mentioned could be a better choice, but there are some plant-based options that would be better choices too: they could use whole-wheat or rye flour instead, use a higher number of low-carb veggies (some have high fiber and barely any carbs, like celery) or add beans for something higher in protein.


Edited by CreonAntigone (11/17/23 01:32 PM)


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Nutrition misinformation [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #28545961 - 11/17/23 12:28 AM (2 months, 10 days ago)

I eat whatever I feel like eating. Which usually means 1-2 handfuls of spinach in the morning, beans and rice for lunch, and dinner is a bit of a crapshoot. Potatoes, sometimes a steak if I feel like it, and want my beans and rice to have some extra flavor the next day. Maybe like a cucumber and some peppers. Stew made from leftovers is a favorite. If I'm lazy, I'll buy and eat an entire bag of chips. One of those cape cods, or the kettle cooked ones. Whichever is on sale.

And I average 2 gallons of water per day. Three on chip day.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Nutrition misinformation [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #28548882 - 11/19/23 08:25 AM (2 months, 8 days ago)

It's just strange the obesity and diabetes epidemic is related to insulin resistance, yet it's not discussed in the mainstream media.

Millions develop belly fat (the most dangerous type of weight gain) and elevated blood pressure, yet we are not taught how to avoid it.

The CDC says

"It isn't clear exactly what causes insulin resistance..."

https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/basics/insulin-resistance.html#:~:text=What%20Causes%20Insulin%20Resistance%3F,overweight%20to%20have%20insulin%20resistance.

The NIH claims

"Researchers don’t fully understand what causes insulin resistance and prediabetes..."

https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/diabetes/overview/what-is-diabetes/prediabetes-insulin-resistance


- obesity and diabetes 2 is preventable - where is nutrition education???


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Nutrition misinformation [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #28549343 - 11/19/23 03:51 PM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Many nutritionists say the human gut is not specialized for eating lots of plant products. The demonizing of saturated fats and also cholesterol is misleading, as both can be healthy, if you avoid eating a lot of carbs. It's not black and white. Cholesterol is very important, and alone is not a risk factor. Lots of evidence statins are not the lifesavers they are sold as.

Since trying 95% animal-based eating since July, it has been an amazing and weird journey. Decades of gut issues have disappeared. Skin is much clearer, and mental health very improved. My brain and my body loves fat!  Many heart doctors are promoting carnivore.  You will never see them on TV!  Never... 

I was very skeptical.  I've never purchased butter before in my life. My erectile functioning is like it was 2 decades ago.  I've lost 30 pounds.  One crazy thing is that I smell great.  I've never smelled like this before. I cannot describe it. (I think the "acetone" thing is a myth) No more bloating.  Blood pressure is now 110 over 70 something.

I have about 5-10% of the gas I've experienced for decades. It's so damn weird! Many cultures do not eat plants and are quite healthy - and lack obesity or high bp or CV disease.  People say, "Oh they have special genes for eating only meat"  Really?

And vegetable & seed oils are very harmful. Why has the media never talked about this?

Tons of food have that crap in them . . .  

The keto diet (high-fat, low-carb) has been used to treat epilepsy since the 1920s. Carbohydrate rooted diseases are everywhere - from diabetes to neurological disorders.  It kills millions - yet we ignore the causes.



Good point
When I ate plant based I had no body odor. I stopped wearing deodorant years ago. If I wear anything its a natural deodorant.
Now eating non plant based I get body odor.
I felt so much better plant based. I don't feel bad now but I do feel not as good. Less energy


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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Nutrition misinformation [Re: Kryptos]
    #28549344 - 11/19/23 03:52 PM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
I eat whatever I feel like eating. Which usually means 1-2 handfuls of spinach in the morning, beans and rice for lunch, and dinner is a bit of a crapshoot. Potatoes, sometimes a steak if I feel like it, and want my beans and rice to have some extra flavor the next day. Maybe like a cucumber and some peppers. Stew made from leftovers is a favorite. If I'm lazy, I'll buy and eat an entire bag of chips. One of those cape cods, or the kettle cooked ones. Whichever is on sale.

And I average 2 gallons of water per day. Three on chip day.



Wow
I thought I drank a lot of water. You doubled my intake


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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Nutrition misinformation [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28549346 - 11/19/23 03:53 PM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
It's just strange the obesity and diabetes epidemic is related to insulin resistance, yet it's not discussed in the mainstream media.

Millions develop belly fat (the most dangerous type of weight gain) and elevated blood pressure, yet we are not taught how to avoid it.

The CDC says

"It isn't clear exactly what causes insulin resistance..."

https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/basics/insulin-resistance.html#:~:text=What%20Causes%20Insulin%20Resistance%3F,overweight%20to%20have%20insulin%20resistance.

The NIH claims

"Researchers don’t fully understand what causes insulin resistance and prediabetes..."

https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/diabetes/overview/what-is-diabetes/prediabetes-insulin-resistance


- obesity and diabetes 2 is preventable - where is nutrition education???



Preventative education costs money and causes major companies to lose $
Disgraceful


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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Nutrition misinformation [Re: loladoreen]
    #28549658 - 11/19/23 09:54 PM (2 months, 7 days ago)

I do notice though, I feel slightly more energetic if I eat a steak and haven't eaten anything but fish for a month.

I think it's the extra hormones they feed the cows.


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Nutrition misinformation [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28549987 - 11/20/23 09:14 AM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Steak messes with my stomach. But its fast easy protein.
I definitely lean towards a pescatarian diet.
I eat a lot of tuna


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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”


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Offlineglanmit
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Re: Nutrition misinformation [Re: loladoreen] * 1
    #28550356 - 11/20/23 01:47 PM (2 months, 6 days ago)

If you're eating fruits, vegetables, lean protein, you can actually get alot of good nutrients for a 1000 calories. You may not need a supplement. But that's up to you on how you're getting your 1000 calories. And yes, once you reach your goal, then just add on maybe 500 to 750 calories. It's amazing how much food we can actually eat, when it's unprocessed. https://betterme.world/articles/no-processed-food-diet-menu/ great article with some more insights about this subject.


Edited by glanmit (11/28/23 03:41 AM)


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Nutrition misinformation [Re: loladoreen]
    #28551055 - 11/21/23 04:42 AM (2 months, 6 days ago)

I've branched out from fatty cuts of beef (such as ribeye), and am exploring pork, bison, and venison.  And various poultry.  I've never purchased or cooked a chuck roast or a pork roast in my life!  If I eat lean meat, I often add butter. It's weird to not feel bloated after eating - a phenomenon that's new to me.  Although I've eaten bacon, I recently purchased and cooked it for the first time in my life.  I save and use the fat.  I've always believed bacon and butter will harm me.  Salt is healthy for healthy people.  Sodium is demonized. 

Although I've not incorporated beef organs in my diet yet, I consume freeze dried beef supplements of beef (liver, heart, kidney, pancreas, & spleen). Beef organs such as liver are high in copper, phosphorus, selenium, zinc and iron. And folate. A good source of Vitamin A, B12, & B5 and thiamin (Vitamin B1). Some studies have found traditional cultures who consume liver and other organ meats have superior bone and dental health compared with the standard American diet (SAD, as many refer to it)

Non-human animals in the wild generally don't suffer from tooth decay, cavities, and gum disease because they do not consume the stuff humans do, such as starchy food and sugar.  Just learned that and find it super interesting.  Why didn't my dentist tell me that when I was a teen?

now I'm rambling  :rolleyes:


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Nutrition misinformation [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28551139 - 11/21/23 06:41 AM (2 months, 6 days ago)

One of my favorite meals as a child was heart. My mom stuffit. It was soooo good.
I eat liver periodically because its so packed with iron.


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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: Nutrition misinformation [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #28554484 - 11/23/23 10:14 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Poor food choices contribute to neuromuscular & neurodegenerative disease risks.  Michael J. Fox - why won't you talk about this and spread the word?




That's an interesting example considering Fox was diagnosed with early onset Parkinson's disease in his 20's. Just one of a large number of disorders/diseases that no amount of diets or lifestyle choices have ever been shown to cause or prevent

Saying "our brain is 60% fat" as a reason why we should consume more fat, while at the same time criticizing the promotion of moderate H2O intake (the brain is actually about 75% water while the brain/person is alive, while the 60% fat number is the percentage in a dry/dead brain) seems a little bit odd...

About 12 years ago the food pyramid was replaced by the MyPlate model, which is basically more of the same but places a higher focus on portion size and calorie control

Despite what YouTube grifters and wellness gurus say, these aren't issues that the "medical establishment" is ignorant to. If someone is obsese there are specific ICD and diagnosis codes (such as obesity due to excess caloric intake, sedentary lifestyle etc.) that end up on their medical records and differentiate them from others who have genuine genetic or metabolic disorders,  offering clinicians a clearer picture to what may be contributing to the comorbidities that are often causing their more-acute health issues

Doctors and healthcare facilities have for decades been incentivized financially to educate patients and promote diets/lifestyle changes that statistically lead to better health outcomes. Insurance companies have spent millions and possibly billions of dollars analyzing the data and trying to get providers to promote changes that will lead to patients who require less medical intervention in the long run. Blue Cross Blue Shield doesn't give a shit what Big Sugar or Big Bread is promoting, they want their members to be healthy so they can continue to gobble up their premiums and give as little as possible back

No one has the real answer as to what constitutes a "healthy diet" because there are just far too many variables, from uncontrollable things like genetics all the way to controllable factors like lifestyle choices that will always confound the data. Even if scientists did come up with a perfect one size fits all diet, most people wouldn't follow it for the same reasons most people don't get the recommended exercise or anything else that's recommended to them.

My personal opinion from working with chronically ill patients is that a large percent of long term health issues are simply out of our control. That said, a fairly larger portion are caused by excess, whether that's excess food intake, or an excess of immobility/being sedentary. If someone goes keto or Paleo or Atkins, or on the other hand cuts down on protein or fats, simply limiting how much food they intake, especially processed food, in the long term  will probably lead them to better health outcomes than those who don't. That probability seems to amplifiy exponentially if they continue to be physically active. All the fad diet arguments seem to boil down to the same blurry lines as political and religious arguments


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Nutrition misinformation [Re: feevers]
    #28554724 - 11/24/23 07:42 AM (2 months, 3 days ago)

* About 12 years ago the food pyramid was replaced by the MyPlate model, which is basically more of the same but places a higher focus on portion size and calorie control

Why don't we admit the old pyramid promoted for over 4 decades was not based in nutrition science of any kind?  If the new pyramid is better, why does health continue to decline?  You can eat tons of crap food while maintaining "proper portion size and calorie control".   

* Despite what YouTube grifters and wellness gurus say, these aren't issues that the "medical establishment" is ignorant to. If someone is obese there are specific ICD and diagnosis codes (such as obesity due to excess caloric intake, sedentary lifestyle etc.) that end up on their medical records and differentiate them from others who have genuine genetic or metabolic disorders,  offering clinicians a clearer picture to what may be contributing to the comorbidities that are often causing their more-acute health issues

The "medical establishment" ICD and diagnosis codes have not improved health outcomes.  They continue to fail. Calling people "grifters" for challenging their failures is hilarious.  Grifter is the new hot term these days. 

* Doctors and healthcare facilities have for decades been incentivized financially to educate patients and promote diets/lifestyle changes that statistically lead to better health outcomes.

Their approach continues to be a total failure.

* No one has the real answer as to what constitutes a "healthy diet" because there are just far too many variables.

Wow.  This type of wacky belief has spread like wild fire. Health is not some type of mysterious thing.

* My personal opinion from working with chronically ill patients is that a large percent of long term health issues are simply out of our control.

Double wow.  How about the 36 million Americans with preventable diabetes?

I laugh that food choices that go against the narrative is a "fad" diet.  I agree, food and nutrition are political.  Millions believe meat and animal fat is unhealthy and even carcinogenic.  Lions and tigers disagree.  Would you at least agree the public continues to be fed a ton of nutrition misinformation?


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Nutrition misinformation [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28555233 - 11/24/23 04:42 PM (2 months, 2 days ago)

Agree and our USA foods garbage.


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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”


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