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cornwallacediggler
atmospheric steam specialist



Registered: 09/01/17
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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: Stromrider] 3
#28533372 - 11/07/23 07:24 PM (2 months, 19 days ago) |
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It's been working out for me for years now. I had losses in the past that were significant but now it's very minimal. I'll post some more pictures in a week or so when I have more mature fruits and have more fully colonized spawn. Sorry for being sketched out about posting stuff online. This is also only a portion of my un colonized fruiting bags in the pic of multiple racks... To reply to the part about it being a moot point because it's cubes... edibles are pretty much all more aggressive than cubes and if it works for cubes then there's no doubt it works for edibles.
Also, have you guys never seen videos from southeast Asia and other developing parts of the world where they use barrel steamers over wood fires or propane to sterilize spawn? They don't even have flowhoods and grow pounds and pounds of edibles on a commercial scale.. there's plenty of videos on YouTube.








Edited by cornwallacediggler (11/07/23 08:02 PM)
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deadmandave
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Thanks for posting pics. Looks pretty good honestly.
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cornwallacediggler
atmospheric steam specialist



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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: deadmandave] 2
#28533547 - 11/07/23 09:17 PM (2 months, 19 days ago) |
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Thanks. I get that I probably came off like a bullshitter lol. This isn't even a good example of our spawn, it's the leftover from the fruiting bags we already made. I prep my sub in specific amounts and I don't have enough ready to do a batch yet. I will in about a week though. Just loaded another sterilizer right as I took that pic earlier. There is for sure a noticeable difference between doing 24 , 30 and 36 hours of having the sterilizer plugged in. I think 36 is the sweet spot. It also requires prepping the grain to be very dry on the outside while still properly plump and hydrated. The sterilizers work great for grain prep too. I pre boil water with 4 PC bases on 2 propane 2 burner camp stoves twice and pour into the sterilizer and turn the element on. I fit 22.5 gal of wheat into 4 to 6 pillow cases, then I let soak in the water filled sterilizer for an hour 15 mins, drain , dry over night rotating a few times which yields the 70 10T bags. This batch came out just under 70 ..
Edited by cornwallacediggler (11/07/23 11:25 PM)
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SupaThaRipper
Genetics Hoarder



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Quote:
cornwallacediggler said: Thanks. I get that I probably came off like a bullshitter lol. This isn't even a good example of our spawn, it's the leftover from the fruiting bags we already made. I prep my sub in specific amounts and I don't have enough ready to do a batch yet. I will in about a week though. Just loaded another sterilizer right as I took that pic earlier. There is for sure a noticeable difference between doing 24 , 30 and 36 hours of having the sterilizer plugged in. I think 36 is the sweet spot. It also requires prepping the grain to be very dry on the outside while still properly plump and hydrated. The sterilizers work great for grain prep too. I pre boil water with 4 PC bases on 2 propane 2 burner camp stoves twice and pour into the sterilizer and turn the element on. I fit 22.5 gal of wheat into 4 to 6 pillow cases, then I let soak in the water filled sterilizer for an hour 15 mins, drain , dry over night rotating a few times which yields the 70 10T bags. This batch came out just under 70 ..
Man I really like this!
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mushboy
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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: SupaThaRipper]
#28537870 - 11/10/23 09:49 PM (2 months, 16 days ago) |
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l0wbob
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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: mushboy] 1
#28537955 - 11/10/23 11:13 PM (2 months, 16 days ago) |
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Nice to see that someone is really doing the 0 PSI sterilization.
When I was creating my post from the signature (venting your pressure cooker) I just looked at the mathematical equation and saw that I is indeed possible. It will just increase the time you need to hold the temperature.
To be honest I just thought it might be way to time and energy consuming that you would do that on a larger scale (I was rly thinking about the volume of a 23 quart presto). Seeing that you run a whole barrel in that way makes me wonder how long it takes so the core temperature of these thick bags will reach your holding temperature. From the equation it seems possible that you could even get away with "just" around 1150 Minutes of 0 PSI.
So how long does it take to head that barrel up?
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cornwallacediggler
atmospheric steam specialist



Registered: 09/01/17
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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: l0wbob]
#28538602 - 11/11/23 11:47 AM (2 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
l0wbob said: Nice to see that someone is really doing the 0 PSI sterilization.
When I was creating my post from the signature (venting your pressure cooker) I just looked at the mathematical equation and saw that I is indeed possible. It will just increase the time you need to hold the temperature.
To be honest I just thought it might be way to time and energy consuming that you would do that on a larger scale (I was rly thinking about the volume of a 23 quart presto). Seeing that you run a whole barrel in that way makes me wonder how long it takes so the core temperature of these thick bags will reach your holding temperature. From the equation it seems possible that you could even get away with "just" around 1150 Minutes of 0 PSI.
So how long does it take to head that barrel up?
It takes a while, I can get a probe to read about 210 to 212 (max temp at 0psi) at around 10hrs from my memory, I dont even use probes anymore though. You definitely need a long time to get it properly sterilized. Like I was saying I've done lots of different run times and 36hrs seems to be the sweet spot. That's with a 1500w element at 120v though, if one were to use a higher wattage element you could reduce that time for sure.
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deadmandave
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Is that just the temp in the barrel or in the center of a bag?
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cornwallacediggler
atmospheric steam specialist



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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: deadmandave]
#28538657 - 11/11/23 12:21 PM (2 months, 16 days ago) |
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I mean it's the probe in the middle of the stack. It takes way longer for all the grain to actually get there though which is why I run it for so long.
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l0wbob
Strangerman



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Quote:
cornwallacediggler said:
It takes a while, I can get a probe to read about 210 to 212 (max temp at 0psi) at around 10hrs from my memory, I dont even use probes anymore though. You definitely need a long time to get it properly sterilized. Like I was saying I've done lots of different run times and 36hrs seems to be the sweet spot. That's with a 1500w element at 120v though, if one were to use a higher wattage element you could reduce that time for sure.
To be honest it sounds like a dream to just set and forget this amount of spawn and come back 36h later and you are basically done with grain 'for a while'
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Kinoko314
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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: l0wbob]
#28538704 - 11/11/23 12:58 PM (2 months, 16 days ago) |
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It's not a bad way to go if you're growing a fuckton of shroomies. That quantity is so over the top for your average shroomery grower.
36 hours seems to make a lot of sense. About 12 to heat up and 24 more to fully sterilize.
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Stromrider
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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: Kinoko314]
#28538988 - 11/11/23 04:23 PM (2 months, 16 days ago) |
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I dont know about large scale cube production but you'll have endless problems trying to do this with gourmets. It's been tried over and over by many people. Saying gourmet spawn is more aggressive therefore would be easier to do this way is a fallacy i also once believed
I made literal tons of cube spawn before I ever got into commercial gourmet production and rarely had any issues. Cubes grow like weeds. They don't give much of a fuck. Quality gourmet spawn is much harder to achieve
The problem you'll have to face with these long cooks is not lack of sterilization but over cooked grains. You'll completely caramelize the sugars in the grain making it where the mycelium cant completely colonize or digest it causing a lot of bacteria issues down the line. Usually showing up after you've Inoculated your ultra pasturized substrate. Sometimes even leaving wet looking uncolonized areas in the spawn but not always.
I would never recommend this method for gourmet spawn or even cube spawn but do what thy wilt
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deadmandave
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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: Stromrider]
#28539869 - 11/12/23 08:17 AM (2 months, 15 days ago) |
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Interesting. I never understood the caramelized sugars bit or what kind of problems it creates. I honestly thought it slowed down colonization but didn't know it could lead to bacterial growth.
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Stromrider
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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: deadmandave] 1
#28540038 - 11/12/23 10:28 AM (2 months, 15 days ago) |
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Don't quote me on this but I think what happens is you have bits of grains that can't be colonized leaving vectors in the bulk substrate. I'm no expert, I've just seen a lot of people go down this road over the years and they always end up back to the autoclave after a lot of headaches and losses
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cornwallacediggler
atmospheric steam specialist



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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: deadmandave]
#28540067 - 11/12/23 10:44 AM (2 months, 15 days ago) |
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Well, I used to run PCs of bags as well atmospherically steam sterilize and noticed no difference in speed of growth. These guys have a video about their really nice stainless steep atmospheric steamer that they use for spawn on a large scale for edibles. They clearly grow a lot and even sell spawn.
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deadmandave
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That dude is selling spawn and "sterile" grain bags but not sure hes actually fruiting anything. Personally i'd much rather buy from someone using a pressurized vessel rather than atmospheric.
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SupaThaRipper
Genetics Hoarder



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Quote:
cornwallacediggler said: Well, I used to run PCs of bags as well atmospherically steam sterilize and noticed no difference in speed of growth. These guys have a video about their really nice stainless steep atmospheric steamer that they use for spawn on a large scale for edibles. They clearly grow a lot and even sell spawn.
Seriously thinking I’m going to fuck around with this and find out. Stainless would be dope but sounds pricey! Maybe I’ll mess around with a recycled drum first and see how it goes. You running 220 on yours as well and is yours all fully automated as well like theirs? Seems a little overkill but truly set and forget would be cool. But I also would not be leaving the vicinity while this thing is running either. So I think you can get by without that. I might do a test setup with one of those smaller 20 gallon drums. I actually have a couple of those on hand right now. I’ll run it 120 though with a steel 5 gallon water reservoir for starters. I have a lot of left over materials from my bulk pasteurizer that i didn’t care for anyways.
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cornwallacediggler
atmospheric steam specialist



Registered: 09/01/17
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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: SupaThaRipper]
#28540772 - 11/12/23 07:02 PM (2 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
SupaThaRipper said:
Quote:
cornwallacediggler said: Well, I used to run PCs of bags as well atmospherically steam sterilize and noticed no difference in speed of growth. These guys have a video about their really nice stainless steep atmospheric steamer that they use for spawn on a large scale for edibles. They clearly grow a lot and even sell spawn.
Seriously thinking I’m going to fuck around with this and find out. Stainless would be dope but sounds pricey! Maybe I’ll mess around with a recycled drum first and see how it goes. You running 220 on yours as well and is yours all fully automated as well like theirs? Seems a little overkill but truly set and forget would be cool. But I also would not be leaving the vicinity while this thing is running either. So I think you can get by without that. I might do a test setup with one of those smaller 20 gallon drums. I actually have a couple of those on hand right now. I’ll run it 120 though with a steel 5 gallon water reservoir for starters. I have a lot of left over materials from my bulk pasteurizer that i didn’t care for anyways.
I just use a use a regular food grade barrel. Stainless is super expensive but worth it if you have the money. I also use a regular 120v element. The dernord ones are the best. There's some videos by multiple people that make these on YouTube in differentways. I have mine set up as an all in one, I don't have a separate boiler and just have a false bottom made from cinder blocks and a weber grill grate. I also have a stainless float valve to keep water at the right level.
Quote:
That dude is selling spawn and "sterile" grain bags but not sure hes actually fruiting anything. Personally i'd much rather buy from someone using a pressurized vessel rather than atmospheric.
He's got an IG , he definitely fruits stuff. Probably a lot more than you lol. I get you can't be persuaded and no longer care to try. Go ahead and die on your hill while I chill over here atop my mountain of dried fruits. The naysayers have been giving us some laughs over here.
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deadmandave
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To each their own.
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Stromrider
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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: deadmandave]
#28544395 - 11/15/23 06:18 PM (2 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
deadmandave said: That dude is selling spawn and "sterile" grain bags but not sure hes actually fruiting anything. Personally i'd much rather buy from someone using a pressurized vessel rather than atmospheric.
I just watched that video and wtf. That guy is a complete clown. He said low and slow is what you want for grain sterilization 
The exact opposite is true. That's why all the legit commercial spawn producers are spending a quarter of a million bucks on these huge vacuum retorts. Anytime I get a couple bags of spawn from Maine cap and stem I'm always so jealous of how the mycelium looks on their grain. You can leave an oyster bag of theirs sitting colonized for a couple weeks and it never gets wet looking. It's because of the short time they're at temp and rolled into the lab to cool. That's some happy mycelium
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