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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Suicidal? * 5
    #28537461 - 11/10/23 04:42 PM (2 months, 16 days ago)

Edit- In the light of day I am wondering if this should be moved to the suggestions for site sub*

I understand there is a subthread for suicide prevention, but it doesn't get used.. 2 years and no one has needed help? A couple of the names in that thread were prominent posters who are suddenly gone.

In honor of Max, who had great aspirations when creating, stickying the thread might be of better outreach:

A new and disoriented, intoxicated, and/or desperate shroomerite could find it when seconds count, and more people would know this even exists and be encouraged to participate.


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


Edited by birdeatingspider (11/11/23 01:17 PM)


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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider] * 1
    #28542052 - 11/13/23 09:42 PM (2 months, 13 days ago)

I agree that it should be stickied.


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OfflineskOsH
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 1
    #28548741 - 11/19/23 05:16 AM (2 months, 8 days ago)

I'm definitely suicidal. Pretty much every day. I don't know how to stop it, I've been on every psychiatric medication under the sun, I've seen therapists, and I just know what they're going to say, before they say it, so that doesn't help.

I don't really know what to do. I don't really have friends. The ones I used to have, were kinda shitty friends, who just used me, and one of them tried strangling me to death. That one, for some reason, keeps trying to get a hold of me to "Hang out"

Fuck no, that guy wanted to kill me!

I had a different guy who wanted to kill me. He could have blown my brains out, or killed me in any number of ways. I was scared, probably could have beat him up, but that's if he wasn't armed. Some pathetic 40 something picking on a 19yo at the time. Well...that guy certifiably ruined my life. I really hope he's dead, or that he feels horrible about that incident, every...single...day. no one came to help me.

I believe in forgiveness for most things, but I'll never forgive this guy. He traumatized me in front of his 8yo son at the time. So appropriate.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: skOsH] * 2
    #28548786 - 11/19/23 06:55 AM (2 months, 8 days ago)

Quote:

skOsH said:

I don't really know what to do.




What helped me, in boundless misery, was God. Not from a book or from other people, but from my innermost self, out to me.

You have that too. Part of you is the Almighty, connect and your cup will be filled from within.





This is a contract that God cast into the world through me, a selfexplanatory way in which you can awake the Highest in you to connect with you consciously.

Its an inner connection, i can't stress this enough.

I think it will help you.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
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OfflineskOsH
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: Asante]
    #28549134 - 11/19/23 12:19 PM (2 months, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

skOsH said:

I don't really know what to do.




What helped me, in boundless misery, was God. Not from a book or from other people, but from my innermost self, out to me.

You have that too. Part of you is the Almighty, connect and your cup will be filled from within.





This is a contract that God cast into the world through me, a selfexplanatory way in which you can awake the Highest in you to connect with you consciously.

Its an inner connection, i can't stress this enough.

I think it will help you.




I think I am too scared of the past trauma to even do anything right now. I keep trying to do exposure based therapy, but it is not producing the results I would like


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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: skOsH] * 1
    #28549138 - 11/19/23 12:26 PM (2 months, 8 days ago)

It can seem overwhelming. Just make small goals for yourself that can be realized.
Once you realize that these things can change. Once you start feeling that change. Your momentum will start building.

Now you are on this site.
Have you tried using psychedelics with the intention of getting rid of trauma?

Because I know that DMT in particular. Has the ability to allow us to objectively view a trauma. And without all of our memories and associations attached. It’s much easier to let go of some of these traumatic events that have happened in our lives.

Ego death is an incredibly therapeutic experience. You would just have to be extra careful to experience it. Because you’re in a particularly vulnerable position.
But the potential for therapy Is enormous.


--------------------

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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: skOsH] * 1
    #28549176 - 11/19/23 01:18 PM (2 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

skOsH said:
I'm definitely suicidal. Pretty much every day. I don't know how to stop it, I've been on every psychiatric medication under the sun, I've seen therapists, and I just know what they're going to say, before they say it, so that doesn't help.

I don't really know what to do...





Just going to focus on this for now.
Re read what you've written a few times before answering:

Do you want to stop it(being suicidal)?
Not something you need to share, just be real with yourself.

As far as not knowing what to do, don't worry about any of that- to the most that life allows, right now, today. Thats just stuff that quite frankly, is not the same value as you.

Just really think and decide, if nothing else was wrong in my life, would I still want to not be here?

And if PTSD walls are protecting you with that layer of stuff plaguing your mind, than stop. Because that is simply where I highly feel EMDR could help.

Psychedelics can be the answer, but truly feel a therapist should be in the mix when it comes to unresolved PTSD. At least to start out.

Would you be open to journaling?


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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InvisibleGray Hound
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #28550571 - 11/20/23 04:54 PM (2 months, 6 days ago)

Suicide would be cool.

But unlike alot of other people.

I havnt been able to pull the trigger. ( few times something showed up and turned things around when i was sure i was going to )

I wish there was a safe space i could talk about it more.

As the saying goes. What doesnt kill me. Makes me stronger?
Feel like that all im here for. Is suffering and pain.
For what. Hate towards life, humanity, and all its inhabitant existence. 

I also hate hearing all this talk about "standing up for one another"
"care for your fellow beings"
I dont see that shit a day in the light of my actual life.
Im pretty sure the saying is squeeze the shit out of your comrades and associates until it just bleeds out.
I've exhausted over 30 or so jobs. and it just felt like a war between me and the world. Aint nobody lookin out for me out there. and if there is, i am already damned. Damned in my actions and my doings. Ive tried it all. Honestly, lieing, Cheating, Stealing, Over-extending, under-extending, Loving, Excelling, Being better, Being less, Surrender, Fighting, Every fucking thing i do, Is sure to end up as a failure.


Do you want to stop it(being suicidal)?
Not something you need to share, just be real with yourself.

Its like something deep inside me believes i need to suffer and go through pain. but i am doing everything i can to fight that void, that evil, and that belief. but its like that inside void shows up on the surface of the world, and in other people. already 2 steps ahead of me.

Pretty sure ive tried everything, and none of it is working. the only thing that is working. is working against me. thats the only thing that works.


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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: Gray Hound]
    #28550574 - 11/20/23 05:01 PM (2 months, 6 days ago)

We can talk in my office if you’re comfortable. If you don’t want anything written down. We can go through PM.

I would need more details, of course.

But this applies to anyone in this thread.


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InvisibleGray Hound
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28550605 - 11/20/23 05:34 PM (2 months, 6 days ago)

No offense. I just dont do good with kindness. I feel totally blocked off to it. I feel blocked off to most everything anyways... so its really no bias.
Kinda wild to write a Pitty story about me and deny kindness? isnt it?


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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: Gray Hound]
    #28550611 - 11/20/23 05:37 PM (2 months, 6 days ago)

We could just talk.

I just wanted to offer it.


Edited by GenesisCorrupted (11/23/23 11:24 PM)


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Anonymous #1

Re: Suicidal? [Re: Gray Hound] * 1
    #28550632 - 11/20/23 05:49 PM (2 months, 6 days ago)

Keep talking
Im listening


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Anonymous #1

Re: Suicidal? [Re: skOsH] * 1
    #28550635 - 11/20/23 05:51 PM (2 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

skOsH said:
I'm definitely suicidal. Pretty much every day. I don't know how to stop it, I've been on every psychiatric medication under the sun, I've seen therapists, and I just know what they're going to say, before they say it, so that doesn't help.

I don't really know what to do. I don't really have friends. The ones I used to have, were kinda shitty friends, who just used me, and one of them tried strangling me to death. That one, for some reason, keeps trying to get a hold of me to "Hang out"

Fuck no, that guy wanted to kill me!

I had a different guy who wanted to kill me. He could have blown my brains out, or killed me in any number of ways. I was scared, probably could have beat him up, but that's if he wasn't armed. Some pathetic 40 something picking on a 19yo at the time. Well...that guy certifiably ruined my life. I really hope he's dead, or that he feels horrible about that incident, every...single...day. no one came to help me.

I believe in forgiveness for most things, but I'll never forgive this guy. He traumatized me in front of his 8yo son at the time. So appropriate.



Im listening


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: Gray Hound] * 2
    #28551062 - 11/21/23 04:52 AM (2 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Gray Hound said:

Feel like that all im here for. Is suffering and pain.

... it just felt like a war between me and the world.

... i am already damned. Damned in my actions and my doings.

... Every fucking thing i do, Is sure to end up as a failure.

... Its like something deep inside me believes i need to suffer and go through pain

... the only thing that is working. is working against me.




Can you see how angry, aggressive, and violent you feel towards your self?  It can be challenging to practice self compassion. If the term "self compassion" sounds stupid to you, that's simply a symptom of self loathing - one of the most common forms of human suffering.  Take care of yourself.


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider] * 1
    #28554347 - 11/23/23 07:26 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

birdeatingspider said:
In honor of Max, who had great aspirations when creating, stickying the thread might be of better outreach:

A new and disoriented, intoxicated, and/or desperate shroomerite could find it when seconds count, and more people would know this even exists and be encouraged to participate.




I really like this idea, my only hesitation is with JSB's wording of his OP in the thread-


Quote:

A place where Shroomery members can seek council and get talked down from the ledge




Suicidal ideation is often an acute crisis, this site and more particularly this specific subforum just don't have the traffic to respond to these situations consistently in real time... not to mention the training or expertise to do so effectively.

I do really like the idea of the JSB thread being the one that's stickied, but I'm not sure it can ever serve the purpose an alternative to a suicide hotline or crisis textline. The last thing I would want if I was in that state of mind is to post something to a thread and then see no one respond to it for hours on end while I continue to spiral

I do think it could serve a purpose as a support thread for people with suicidal thoughts, but on a less acute and more longer-term community support level. That would probably require an edit of his OP. Anyone have any thoughts on how to update the OP to better summarize the goal of the thread?

He already posted the # for the suicide hotline in the second post in the thread, I was thinking of just editing the second post with the crisis textline number as well and to say something along the lines of call/text this number if you are at imminent risk and have a plan to harm yourself or attempt suicide within the next 24 hours


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: feevers] * 1
    #28554473 - 11/23/23 09:49 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

Maybe having like a discord or something. Something that is more actively monitored by the community would help more.

Problem is, as you said, one of training. I've participated in a few threads when I felt like my input could be helpful, but there are times where I don't think my input would be helpful. Even though that's probably not true, from an acute suicidal ideation standpoint, where just having someone, anyone, respond would probably be better than nothing.

I think you could reasonably expect a number of people to pass by the thread within a 24 hour period. If a few of them are...for lack of better term, given permission to respond to all such cases, even if they don't feel like they could contribute positively at the time, that would probably help. But you also need the right people. I wouldn't want to say something that makes it worse.

Otherwise, I'd add the basics. Stuff like removing weapons from your home, erecting obstacles to carrying out a plan. I've definitely had moments where the five minute drive to the store to buy the right chemicals was all I needed to stop myself.


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: feevers] * 2
    #28554480 - 11/23/23 10:05 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

Totally agree,  feevers-
Tbh, I've found myself hovering over my phone much more since reviving this, in concern of a crisis.

So was thinking a post kinda defining different states of being suicidal.

There is ideation, which is a broad term in itself: you have thoughts of killing yourself. The majority do not act on it, can span decades, a lifetime. And that's who is welcomed, supporting another with more chronic of state.

Sometimes, just commiserating and having others to lean on in tough times makes a world of difference.
As well as the benefits mentioned in my OP.

Those who are feeling this way for the first time would be encouraged to vent/join in, but be made aware that this is not a site dedicate to suicide prevention, and unless otherwise asserted,  the responses will not be from trained professionals.
If someone is 'on the ledge', they must seek help.

Is it possible to code a banner in with the hotline?
Or a disclaimer like in WCA but more prominent.

Long term feelings of wanting to move on, for a variety of reasons- leaves a person feeling pretty destitute and empty. Company that experience and understand eases that.
There is a wisdom that could potentially comfort someone feeling suicidal as a new burden.

If an acute situation were to arise, the emergency information should be in red, front and center with a message to call.
Otherwise, posting in the sticky will alert a plethora of mindful, sensitive members who would pick it up sooner than if a member created their own thread, would imagine?
I took a step back to see what kind of traffic this got since bumping. My plan was to always check this thread first, and would imagine others would be willing and wanting to help.


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #28554505 - 11/23/23 11:03 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

The discord idea would fill the gap where the forum software lacks, real time/push updates when someone posts. It would be limiting though as many people don't use discord, I personally haven't dabbled much in it. It would also raise the expectation that someone could get real-time assistance or support, when I just don't think that's something that shroomery is designed to provide

I'm a trained crisis counselor and in the past have worked with the crisis textline as well as on an in-person crisis de-escalation teams, one key aspect to both is having some degree of access to a person's personal information (phone number, location, name etc.) should things ecalate and a call to first responders needs to be made. It happens quickly and that's not something we're set up for here, as admins would need to be at the ready with an IP address that likely wouldn't end up being very useful

I like the idea of stickying JSB's thread, with an edit to his OP front and center in red defining the goal of the thread and resources for those who are in acute crisis and need immediate help. Maybe this thread could be used to draft up what that would look like, with strategies along the lines of what Kryptos mentioned as well the contact information for all the relevant resources


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Anonymous #2

Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider] * 1
    #28554519 - 11/23/23 11:24 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

I was going to post this is another thread but then just decided to add it to my personal notes and delete it... but maybe it can help u idk. It sucks because online u can try help someone and share what helped with u personally but then they try replicate it in their own life and the shit hits the fan.
I don't want you to have brown walls my friend.

---
I can't attribute this to shrooms unfortunately because I did not have access to them when I was younger and "severely depressed". I found something else that was categorized as a psychadelic dissociative at the time. I'm not going to name the substance because I can only view it as a dirty chemical now. Although it was a bad chemical I learned this on, shrooms offers a much cleaner experience identical to this.


You know when you drink too much alcohol and you throw your arms around the toilet and hurl your lungs out? You swear up and down that you'll never touch alcohol again. And you mean it and believe your words...at least for a few hours or a day.

When you are suicidal and want to die its something similar. You THINK you want to die, you BELIEVE you want to die. But I think you just want to escape the situation you feel trapped and stuck in

That's what my depression was always caused by. Finding myself in a situation I couldn't escape from, and surviving in it long enough that u lose all hope of it ever getting better. The fog of war just surrounds the mind and strangles it.

There is something refreshing to me to take a high uncomfortable dose and experience the death of my own soul. Much rather test the waters of death temporarily. Squirm and writhe around on the floor, vomit, cry, get stuck in an endless loop of mental torture, hate ur own existence, beg for mercy, beg for another chance. It gets so bad and then like magic the chemical eases it's grip on ur mind. Just enough that u can be so relieved. So grateful that this awful experience is coming to an end.

I find it so calming coming out of a "bad trip" having faced such horrors of the mind.  It puts things into perspective for me.

If you can safely experience enough of these bad trips over a longer period of time... it can help to drown out some of the pain behind your depression. But first look inwards to find out WHY you are depressed to begin with

When your loved one dies, or if u are sexually assaulted, or if u are in a terrible car accident, or if your mate gets torn a part in front of u. I feel like it hurts so bad because it's such a big trauma. Such a shock of the mind.

There is a benefit to have a lot more of these smaller bad trips to obfuscate the mind a little. Dilute the waters in a safer way. Take a bit of that power away from such shitty memories that may bother u.


And once you no longer fear the 'bad trips', it becomes a lot easier to have good ones.


Some situations that cause depression you can escape from; not earning enough money, not eating healthy, being overweight, being addicted. These are ones that u have control over but u just haven't figured out the way yet

Some situations you can't control, like a death, a rape, a loss of all possessions suddenly, held up at gun point. You can't change these ones, but you CAN change your understanding of them in the greater scheme of things.

But we need to find out why, why are you depressed. Was there ever a time that you WERE happy?

If so what changed?

If you have never been happy, who/what got in the way of that?


---------
PS. If you ever pursue ego death via shrooms it is EXTREMELY important to;

1. Not drink alcohol before during or after your trip.

2. Eat healthy. I'm talking at least 7 different colors of vegetables or a salad as soon as u start coming down. And continue eating these veggies every meal. I'm a big fan of this type of broccoli bacon salad mix from the shop. So good

3. Drink Water only. And not like 3 sips and then say "ah, that'll do" every time u pee ur pee should be water colored. Not yellow or dark
---‐---

Reason; you don't want to be depressed and then have to deal with such mental fatigue the next day. Idk about yall but if I don't take care of my body it can take like 3 days to feel "normal" again as apposed to 1 day when hydrating and eating healthy.


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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #28554520 - 11/23/23 11:26 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

I really appreciate you posting this comment.
Sincerely, GC


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28555043 - 11/24/23 01:52 PM (2 months, 2 days ago)

All great brainstorming..

Discord, I feel would still be giving the site responsibility that can have negative repercussions.
Albeit, will say that I'm not at all familiar with the platform, so don't know the extent of potential benefits over a thread here.

Am hearing a willingness from great contributers to sort of 'watch over', and think with time, more would be wanting to help.
The more helpers, the more ways to view a new post incoming.
The more people feeling less alone and maybe even helped, the better the health of our community.

I'm seeing both sides to it, but think the pros outweigh the cons, still.
With so many people who vanish from here I would question how many commit suicide.
I know thats a bold statement, but the more I went digging and found peoples final message/general mindstate* before going dark, the more convinced I am.
Not to mention those we know about.

This website hosts drug users/abusers.
Again. Drugs and mental health go hand and hand.
There should be better active, real life support for those struggling with life and death. Not just a number and a collection of links. Think that's what he wanted, but once the thread hit page 2 no one knew it was available.
Vote pro sticky.

If you want I can draft up something for the OP, lmk feevers.


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


Edited by birdeatingspider (11/24/23 02:32 PM)


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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #28555113 - 11/24/23 03:07 PM (2 months, 2 days ago)

That’s a very poignant statement.
I have examples of people that I’m wondering about.
I haven’t even been here that long.


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Suicidal? [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 1
    #28555212 - 11/24/23 04:29 PM (2 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

GenesisCorrupted said:
I haven’t even been here that long.



Ya sure? :wink:

Just want to add, it makes my day big time when MIA members return saying they have a family and own a company, or just that they are clean.

Am not discounting the percentage of members who have grown up and drift off.

My attention is to the easily findable folk who were outwardly suicidal, no one knew what to do with it or completely ignored it as fault in character, back then. What happened, where'd they go?


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider] * 1
    #28555228 - 11/24/23 04:40 PM (2 months, 2 days ago)

Birdeatingspider is right.

Everyone leaves for different reasons. I have left for long periods. Wasn't suicidal. I was busy, or on a internet free period Or sometimes its gets to negative. There are lots of reasons.

It's a potential lawsuit also. For the site and licensed clinicians if it reached that point.

FYI everyone here, or  majority, are under an alias.

Being aware and kind goes a long long way.

Just be mindful of others and their space. Its a gift to have a person share their "stuff".  We should treat it like that.
Empathy and respect go far.


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Anonymous #3

Re: Suicidal? [Re: Anonymous #1] * 2
    #28557742 - 11/26/23 08:13 PM (2 months, 16 hours ago)

Posted this another thread but feels like it fits here too. Going anon, but if anyone is going through some shit I’d urge them to get it out in writing.

Monitor lizarding this thread and hope I can be of service to anyone else struggling

Treat yourselves with kindness

:heart:

Quote:

Anonymous #2 said:
This has been the hardest year of my life.

I’ve experienced great loss in the literal sense, and in terms of my friendships and long term relationship failing apart… I’ve been waking up filled with anxiety and living every day in survival mode, frantically clawing toward whatever I think will make it stop. All the while under increasing pressure to meet expectations in my career, relationships, and in life as a whole.

During this time I bottled the emotions from my first real struggle with my mental health, never asking for help until it all boiled over. Fought like hell to tough it out for a couple years, not wanting to burden others, and in doing so unknowingly shut out and neglected everything and everyone that mattered most to me. I feel totally fucking lost, like I just need a break, yet I wouldn’t know what to do if I had one. I can’t relax, and I’m filled with shame and guilt that I let everything get to this point.

She’s gone, the close friendships I once had are gone. I’ve seriously damaged my personal relationship with my employer, and am failing at was once my dream job. In a matter of like 1-2 years I have become that distant, isolated and unreliable person in what feels like all of my roles and relationships.

I put in a lot of work to maintain the illusion that I have my shit together, but the people closest to me are starting to see through my disguise. It’s really amazing how fast it can all fall apart. From the outside it would seem like I have it made, but it couldn’t be farther from the truth.

Sorry to hijack, but needed to vent and took the invitation.




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Re: Suicidal? [Re: Anonymous #3] * 1
    #28558229 - 11/27/23 11:17 AM (2 months, 1 hour ago)

Thank you for adding this here, glad you did. Your action is actually a demonstration of what would make this thread great.

Instead of posting such a message and being at the mercy of whoever answers- if anyone, can be lessened if there were a visible safe space inhabited by those who feel similar and understand.


Anon3*, I keenly recall when it all caved in at once for me, and how suddenly everything was impossible.
Wish I could say it gets better.. but you get used to the extra weight.

Are you currently in therapy? It seems like you're in a dissociated state which is a natural protection from what is overwhelming.  It's protecting you from the multitude of 'stuff' on your plate.
With this I suggest yoga, it really grounds, puts you in touch with your body, and builds mastery and balance which can assist in self confidence, you might be struggling with, at the bottom of it all.

To repeat your words to you, keep talking- you're taking a brave, active step by doing so, and you will be heard by good company.
Take care and do some research on adrenals if you're not familiar- its what seems to be most problematic from a biological standpoint, when existing in survival mode over long duration.

Despite it all hitting the fan, you seem to have clarity, yet.
Don't let go, it's your way out.

Hope to see you around!
Remember to focus on your breathing:peace:


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Edited by birdeatingspider (11/27/23 01:17 PM)


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider] * 2
    #28558280 - 11/27/23 12:01 PM (2 months, 56 minutes ago)

Just to keep everyone apprised-

This is actively being looked at/worked on behind the scenes.
What we need from you all is input!


My vision for this thread is for those:

1. Suicidal but not currently a danger to self. Those with chronic illnesses, as example.
2. Been suicidal, live with it, have decided to stay for now, for various reasons.
3. Those who have lost, if feeling alright to join, may find comfort for their grief, or feel compelled to be a 'helper'.
4. The helpers who scoop up new posts in timely fashion. The helpers will be designated, and educated in how to respond if a crisis comes through.

Any additional ideas in these regards?

Any ideas in general?

A part 2 to come.
Let's hear feedback first, preferably in this thread, otherwise PMs are fine.
Thank You!!!


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #28558909 - 11/27/23 09:39 PM (1 month, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Maybe having like a discord or something. Something that is more actively monitored by the community would help more.

Problem is, as you said, one of training. I've participated in a few threads when I felt like my input could be helpful, but there are times where I don't think my input would be helpful. Even though that's probably not true, from an acute suicidal ideation standpoint, where just having someone, anyone, respond would probably be better than nothing.

I think you could reasonably expect a number of people to pass by the thread within a 24 hour period. If a few of them are...for lack of better term, given permission to respond to all such cases, even if they don't feel like they could contribute positively at the time, that would probably help. But you also need the right people. I wouldn't want to say something that makes it worse.

Otherwise, I'd add the basics. Stuff like removing weapons from your home, erecting obstacles to carrying out a plan. I've definitely had moments where the five minute drive to the store to buy the right chemicals was all I needed to stop myself.





We do have a discord.  We also have a health and wellbeing channel on it.  It's generally watched by people and would probably get a faster response than here.  It's still not a high traffic spot of the discord though.  Still might be hours for someone to notice or want to respond.


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: mndfreeze] * 1
    #28559336 - 11/28/23 11:11 AM (1 month, 30 days ago)

Well, I'm seeing several prevalent  potential 'helpers' vow to keep close eye on the thread. Again, we will be revising the OP by JSB- There will be no 'talking down from a ledge', here. So a few hour lapse between someone venting and another responding won't have the risk, or leeway for tragedy.

You would know better, I don't go on discord.
Still feel if we opened up the door to quicker/real time responses, it puts the site as a whole at risk to not only a loss that might have been avoided if passed off to professionals, but potentially culpable to liability.

Isn't discord a fast paced, not taken as seriously, and lacking long posts?
Because we are looking at an alternative direction when it comes to the depth of subject matter.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
- this is an open mic and I need more feedback and ideas!


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider] * 1
    #28559351 - 11/28/23 11:23 AM (1 month, 30 days ago)

Survivors of attempts or thoughts.
Hearing from people who made it.


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: loladoreen]
    #28559683 - 11/28/23 04:07 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Yes, added.
I think that would be the subgroup that was missing mention so far.

Keep it coming!


Not just who belongs, what does everyone feel this thread should accomplish? :takingnotes:


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #28559700 - 11/28/23 04:15 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

I think removing the label suicide or suicidal would be beneficial.
Removing any stigma.
I think it can be an open discussion to discussion emotional turmoil,mental health, etc.


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #28559707 - 11/28/23 04:19 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Quote:

birdeatingspider said:
Well, I'm seeing several prevalent  potential 'helpers' vow to keep close eye on the thread. Again, we will be revising the OP by JSB- There will be no 'talking down from a ledge', here. So a few hour lapse between someone venting and another responding won't have the risk, or leeway for tragedy.

You would know better, I don't go on discord.
Still feel if we opened up the door to quicker/real time responses, it puts the site as a whole at risk to not only a loss that might have been avoided if passed off to professionals, but potentially culpable to liability.

Isn't discord a fast paced, not taken as seriously, and lacking long posts?
Because we are looking at an alternative direction when it comes to the depth of subject matter.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
- this is an open mic and I need more feedback and ideas!





Yeah I was just pointing out to kryptos that we do have the discord and it is an option for people who need a lil faster response than they might get here.  It's active enough and heavily moderated.  No shennigans occur in that channel.  General chat is definitely more lax and chaotic.


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: mndfreeze]
    #28559758 - 11/28/23 05:02 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Ah gotcha.

Just curious, have you ever had/managed a crisis in your health wellbeing channel?
I know Discord hasn't been an available channel til somewhat recently.


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: loladoreen]
    #28559772 - 11/28/23 05:15 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Quote:

loladoreen said:
I think removing the label suicide or suicidal would be beneficial.
Removing any stigma.
I think it can be an open discussion to discussion emotional turmoil,mental health, etc.




I thought about that. However, avoiding the word reinforces the stigma, IMHO.

We can certainly include the above, and no one will be excluded- although I wonder if it would dilute the overall purpose of the thread.
We still need posts for the rest of PMW.

But am asking the rest of supporters to weigh in.
Lola, you have great ideas keep them coming!


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider] * 1
    #28559774 - 11/28/23 05:16 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Thanks for replying to my post. I tried more than once to respond thoughtfully, but couldn’t figure out exactly what I was trying to convey. 

Not used to simply venting/asking for help just to do it, without some calculated reason or expectation attached to it. If that even makes sense. Probably somewhat of an imposter thing, in that I don’t think my situation necessarily warrants taking up space in a thread of this nature.

I was in a particularly bad space when I typed out that post but, with a clear head, I don’t feel I’m realistically at risk.

I greatly appreciate having been able to get some shit off my chest when I needed to, and be met with your kind responses. I’ll keep an eye on this thread, and will happily contribute in the future if I feel I’m able to help.

:heart:


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #28559780 - 11/28/23 05:19 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

A person can be suicidal and not realize. It is not always planned out.
In fact many suicides are spontaneous. Being able to have a welcoming and open arena would be more important than having a place that is only for suicidal thoughts.
Stigma halts healing.
Many have passed from successful suicide attempts that less than 24 hours prior were not suicidal.
Especially when substance use is involved. Things move quickly. Coming down? Hits hard.
Emotional trauma recovery posting would be more inviting.
Emotional dumping area
Need to talk? This is the place.


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: loladoreen]
    #28559792 - 11/28/23 05:28 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

There’s  a term for that.
The alluring abyss…
The concept of instantaneous death. Being presented to somebody. Maybe in the form of a pit they could throw themselves into. Is something that will just be acted on by people that have never presented or even thought about suicide before. Just because they weren’t aware of it. Didn’t mean they weren’t depressed.


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #28559852 - 11/28/23 06:10 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Quote:

birdeatingspider said:
Ah gotcha.

Just curious, have you ever had/managed a crisis in your health wellbeing channel?
I know Discord hasn't been an available channel til somewhat recently.




There have definitely been threads in this forum that seemed...significantly more serious than others. I imagine the only benefit of discord would be faster response time for such situations. I imagine there have been similar discussions on the discord. Drugs and mental health crises go hand in hand.

There does need to be a serious discussion about potential ramifications, though. I don't think it's likely to be a big issue, since, once again, drug use and mental health crises are like peanut butter and chocolate. I think a lot of this could be covered by good samaritan type laws, but someone might wanna loop in Enlil just in case.


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #28559861 - 11/28/23 06:16 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Quote:

birdeatingspider said:
Quote:

loladoreen said:
I think removing the label suicide or suicidal would be beneficial.
Removing any stigma.
I think it can be an open discussion to discussion emotional turmoil,mental health, etc.




I thought about that. However, avoiding the word reinforces the stigma, IMHO.

We can certainly include the above, and no one will be excluded- although I wonder if it would dilute the overall purpose of the thread.
We still need posts for the rest of PMW.

But am asking the rest of supporters to weigh in.
Lola, you have great ideas keep them coming!




This is interesting from a linguistic standpoint. Since suicide is a big no-no word, algorithmically speaking, the sudden prevalence of words like "self-deletion" to get around algorithmic content monitoring on big websites is causing an AI-driven shift in modern parlance.

Completely off topic, but fascinating nonetheless. I am interested to see how this plays out in the future. I remember reading a story of a mother putting her child (raised by youtube) to bed, and having the child sleepily mutter "Remember to like and subscribe" when she said goodnight. That had essentially replaced the traditional farewell in the mind of the child, as it is often the last spoken phrase on youtube videos.

So, perhaps adding modern euphemisms like "self-deletion" might be helpful in reaching a certain audience.


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: Anonymous #3] * 1
    #28559867 - 11/28/23 06:20 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #3 said:
Thanks for replying to my post. I tried more than once to respond thoughtfully, but couldn’t figure out exactly what I was trying to convey. 

Not used to simply venting/asking for help just to do it, without some calculated reason or expectation attached to it. If that even makes sense. Probably somewhat of an imposter thing, in that I don’t think my situation necessarily warrants taking up space in a thread of this nature.

I was in a particularly bad space when I typed out that post but, with a clear head, I don’t feel I’m realistically at risk.

I greatly appreciate having been able to get some shit off my chest when I needed to, and be met with your kind responses. I’ll keep an eye on this thread, and will happily contribute in the future if I feel I’m able to help.

:heart:




First, I am so relieved that you found some solace by posting.
You are welcome. Welcome to help, welcome to hurt, welcome here without any expectations :nicekitty:

Imposter Syndrome really sucks the good out of life. 
But can assure you, there are individuals who want to be the change they want to see in the word.:ghandi:

As lola pointed out,  just because you are feeling better doesn't exclude you from participating here- the idea is to retain members and coexist with those struggling.

The commonality is the knowing of what it is like to be there.
A big reason for this idea is for the social aspect.
As anon3 demonstrates, just being heard and responded to can help tremendously.
There is also hopefully a sense of belonging and natural desire to reciprocate the kindness.
It would be wonderful to get progress reports, or updates to follow along in another's journey. Friends in good company.


Cant help but feel this would divert from JSB's original intent and thread.
And I do feel if in a frantic, intoxicated state, that seeing the sticky might be a godsend.

Lola,
Are you suggesting a new thread altogether, or editing the title?


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: Kryptos]
    #28559877 - 11/28/23 06:27 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

birdeatingspider said:
Ah gotcha.

Just curious, have you ever had/managed a crisis in your health wellbeing channel?
I know Discord hasn't been an available channel til somewhat recently.




There have definitely been threads in this forum that seemed...significantly more serious than others. I imagine the only benefit of discord would be faster response time for such situations. I imagine there have been similar discussions on the discord. Drugs and mental health crises go hand in hand.

There does need to be a serious discussion about potential ramifications, though. I don't think it's likely to be a big issue, since, once again, drug use and mental health crises are like peanut butter and chocolate. I think a lot of this could be covered by good samaritan type laws, but someone might wanna loop in Enlil just in case.




Was asking about strictly discord.

Tried Enlil, he wouldn't take my dollar.
The legal stuff will be understood by the higher ups.
Lets keep this for brainstorming.


Got only one hand and its tired. Will catch up in the am. Hope everyone has a good night/day!


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #28560454 - 11/29/23 08:18 AM (1 month, 29 days ago)

What would you like to see here
What should go here?
Users may choose only one ( total votes)
JSB's original thread stickied.
-
0 0%
An entire new thread dedicated to any emotional turmoil, not just thinking about death.
-
0 0%
Nothing
-
0 0%
Votes accepted from (11/29/23 05:18 AM) to (11/29/23 05:18 AM)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: Anonymous #4]
    #28560543 - 11/29/23 10:06 AM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #4 said:
What would you like to see here



Why don't you create a poll asking for a new thread?
New title or keep what is here?
Allow the shroomery members to decide.


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: loladoreen] * 1
    #28560794 - 11/29/23 01:25 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

See above? Do you not see the poll?

Every post I have requested ideas and feedback. This will be a member-made production, I assure you.


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #28560803 - 11/29/23 01:31 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

Might just be me. But I think the poll is broken. I can’t cast a vote.


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #28560808 - 11/29/23 01:34 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

The poll is closed. It closed at 4:18 am this morning.


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: birdeatingspider] * 1
    #28560810 - 11/29/23 01:36 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

Sorrys, had never made one before.
Shall try again.

What would you like to see here?
What should go here?
Users may choose only one (6 total votes)
JSB's original thread stickied. For those dealing with occasional- constant thoughts of death.
-
3 50%
An entire new thread dedicated to any emotional turmoil, not just thinking about death.
-
2 33%
No new thread or sticky
-
1 17%
Votes accepted from (11/29/23 12:00 PM) to (12/05/23 10:35 PM)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 3
    #28560825 - 11/29/23 01:46 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

In my opinion there's not a need for a generalized depression/mental health sticky, as this whole subforum is an open discussion place for those topics and many threads get made on them. Those threads probably recieve more traffic/attention than posts in a sticky would

Suicide is a topic that's a different animal. Sure there's stigma, but this is a drug forum and this sub has an anonymous feature, I don't think the term is something we need to shy away from


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: Gray Hound] * 1
    #28562086 - 11/30/23 12:23 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Gray Hound said:
I've exhausted over 30 or so jobs. and it just felt like a war between me and the world. Aint nobody lookin out for me out there. and if there is, i am already damned. Damned in my actions and my doings. Ive tried it all.




If you're in America, the system isn't much for supportive.

Some work places are toxic, some have shackles like drug tests, some have overbearing micromanagement, some just don't father fulfillment.

Hope something comes your way.


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: sudly] * 1
    #28562322 - 11/30/23 03:21 PM (1 month, 27 days ago)

The US system specifically, and the capitalist system more generally, teaches you to seek identity through labor. That's why when shit goes down, they say something like "[job] worker, 47, died in freak accident" and your name goes in the second line. This teaches you that you are your job. This also makes you exploitable, because once you identify as your job, you are less likely to leave for a better position.

Resist this. Seek identity in what you want, not what you work as.

This shit already bleeds into social interactions. "So, what do you do?" Is a request for your job title, which then defines your relative social position.


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: Kryptos]
    #28562778 - 11/30/23 07:44 PM (1 month, 27 days ago)

To avoid answering that question. I will usually make a joke. It’s no one’s business what I do for my job.
Also, obviously, the conversation has failed if that’s what we’re talking about.


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Re: Suicidal? [Re: Kryptos] * 2
    #28562809 - 11/30/23 07:55 PM (1 month, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
The US system specifically, and the capitalist system more generally, teaches you to seek identity through labor. That's why when shit goes down, they say something like "[job] worker, 47, died in freak accident" and your name goes in the second line. This teaches you that you are your job. This also makes you exploitable, because once you identify as your job, you are less likely to leave for a better position.

Resist this. Seek identity in what you want, not what you work as.

This shit already bleeds into social interactions. "So, what do you do?" Is a request for your job title, which then defines your relative social position.




One of my first Watts introductions. Forgot about it until it was posted in whatre you listening thread
Quote:

Nitro87 said:
si=UMEJ_1u4qcOThDz5



Always agreed with this philosophy. Seeing it play out repeatedly, as we all do, and fall trap to. Anyways, figured your belief tied in so felt to share.


Music is always true company when you can't even find the words; hearing them being sung to you through the speakers is personal-again, knowing you are not alone.

I have a playlist, "traumatic Moments':tongue2:
But it's nice to not be digging through songs when in a distressed state.
Would encourage others to find their sound if haven't already- filter through different genres and find whatever eases your mind.

Talks like the one above that everyone should hear, are important validaters.


General Reminder: Let's keep the language clean and shitposting away .

There will be a formal set of rules that is currently being drafted.

In the meantime, please treat this thread with the respect it and the people deserve, including yourself.
Please be mindful of what you post and how you choose to convey your message.


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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