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OfflinePlok
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Permanent tolerance due to DMT usage * 2
    #28532259 - 11/06/23 08:04 PM (2 months, 20 days ago)

A friend of mine smoked copious amounts of DMT years ago until he got to a point where it didn't effect him anymore.  Since then he has not been able to feel anything when he takes psychedelics (mushrooms or acid).

It doesn't matter how long he waits in between doses, he hardly feels anything anymore.  He took 3.5g of mushrooms last night after nearly a year between his previous dose and felt almost nothing.  He said he just got the yawns and felt a little energized but that was about it.

He's not on any kind of psychiatric medication.  Has anybody experienced anything like this before, or heard of anyone who has?  He's pretty bummed about it.


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Permanent tolerance due to DMT usage [Re: Plok] * 2
    #28532319 - 11/06/23 08:51 PM (2 months, 20 days ago)

Yeah being locked out from DMT by overuse is pretty common. Usually it only lasts up to a year, but I have heard of it being permanent.

It's not commonly talked about here but you can read a lot about it on Nexus.

I'm surprised LSD doesn't work on him though, usually that still works even when tryptamines won't anymore.


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Permanent tolerance due to DMT usage [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #28532381 - 11/06/23 10:32 PM (2 months, 20 days ago)

Intriguing. Thats wild that he smoked it that frequently.


--------------------
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That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Permanent tolerance due to DMT usage [Re: Plok]
    #28532496 - 11/07/23 03:14 AM (2 months, 20 days ago)

Thats nutz! Ive heard of permanent tolerances before. Very rare condition.

Has he tried other psychs such as Mescaline or Salvia?


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Permanent tolerance due to DMT usage [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #28532598 - 11/07/23 07:20 AM (2 months, 20 days ago)

I think it seems to be an issue with smoked DMT, idk if anyone has gotten that from purely oral DMT use, i myself took DMT orally daily/near daily for 4 years straight, and have smoked some Changa here and there, it always worked for me and still works to this day. Idk why smoked DMT would be different in that regard compared to oral DMT, but i stuck with oral DMT and i'm glad.


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Offlinetaskamil
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Re: Permanent tolerance due to DMT usage [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #28532805 - 11/07/23 11:25 AM (2 months, 19 days ago)

Are your friend also has tolerance to mdma ?

I think it may be result of glutamate neurotoxicity (1) or 5 HT 2 receptor down regulation.

Solution may be resetting tolerance by ibogaine, ketamine, st johns worth, harmala alkoloids(2) or lemon balm tea (3).

I found lemon balm tea which I heard from Sabnock is beneficial also after the trip, I think because of glutamate neutralization. Lemon balm  makes me feel good but making afterglow effect lessen.


1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9224489/

2. https://europepmc.org/article/med/24506035

3. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3652537/


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OfflineTyperwritermonky
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Re: Permanent tolerance due to DMT usage [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 2
    #28533422 - 11/07/23 07:54 PM (2 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Thats nutz! Ive heard of permanent tolerances before. Very rare condition.

Has he tried other psychs such as Mescaline or Salvia?




Permanent tolerance will absolutely result from abusing a tryptamine like DMT heavily.  Your receptors literally just fucking whither away and will not accept overloads anymore.  You truly burn them out and do damage.  It doesn't make you retarded like the dare ads said, most of these people function fine.  But they just burnt their receptors out completely.

Salvia would definitely work since that's different receptor sites creating most of the effects.  Mescaline I would imagine would still be very muted as it's still those 5HT2x sites.

I've been on ketamine sometimes and feel like I've blown a few receptors during some binges.  NMDA of course that is.  But I didn't get a permanent tolerance, I use it every few months and it's still 100% effective to me.

But I do know with the serotonin type psychedelics that you can just destroy the receptor sites.  That's why 25iNBOME was so bad and dangerous, even if it didn't physically hurt you, the receptor site affinities were so high that it just obliterated the receptor sites and clefts.  Some people who took an nBOME once at too high of a dose since blotters were laid insanely high would blow out their receptors forever, I've seen that happen before.  We also have the medical data for it, I mean nBOME was created to test serotonin sites specifically.  I do not know if after 10+ years they recovered, but years later they still reported very mute effects.

I imagine you could check the affinity chart for DMT and see just which receptors he fucked up.


Edited by Typerwritermonky (11/07/23 07:56 PM)


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Re: Permanent tolerance due to DMT usage [Re: Typerwritermonky] * 1
    #28533451 - 11/07/23 08:10 PM (2 months, 19 days ago)

Mescaline is stronger at adrenergic sites than at serotonergic sites, plus some action at TAAR1 at the same affinity as serotonin. I think it'd work fine even past serotonin-based tolerance.


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Permanent tolerance due to DMT usage [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #28533625 - 11/07/23 10:38 PM (2 months, 19 days ago)

Can he feel pain? What if I broke a bottle on his head? This is not a helpful comment, sorry, I just find it funny. "HE FEELS NOTHING!"


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OfflineBardy
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Re: Permanent tolerance due to DMT usage [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #28533690 - 11/08/23 01:19 AM (2 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

CreonAntigone said:
Mescaline is stronger at adrenergic sites than at serotonergic sites, plus some action at TAAR1 at the same affinity as serotonin. I think it'd work fine even past serotonin-based tolerance.




Serotonin receptors are where the psychedelic effects come from though, so you might still get all of the stimulant properties of mescaline with a diminished hallucinogenic effect. Assuming that what Typewritermonkey says is correct?

This is the first I’ve heard of “permanent” tolerance. Maybe a few years down the line this guy will be able to trip again.

I dosed nBomes a handful of times about ten years ago. I didn’t get any diminished effects from serotonergic psychedelics after that. But I also didn’t dose very high, just enough to trip. It’s such a pity that they are so toxic, because I thought the nBome experience was amazing. It had such a warm, happy side to it, and amazing visuals. Haven’t had visuals like that from anything else yet. I’ve yet to try 2cb which I think might be on par from descriptions.


Edited by Bardy (11/08/23 01:22 AM)


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OfflineTyperwritermonky
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Re: Permanent tolerance due to DMT usage [Re: Bardy] * 2
    #28534217 - 11/08/23 12:30 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Yes that is what I meant, CreonAntigone is correct that of course the other receptor sites would light up as usual.

I also dosed 25i-nBOME a handful of times, but I had a gram of it in powder form, and broke it down myself, laying it mixed with HPBCD and like 250ug dosages.  The stuff sold on the streets and online was usually around 1-2mg, or a magnitude of 4-8x higher dose.  The few dosages I took of it ranging from 250-750ug didn't leave me with any damage either, but then again the biggest dose I took was significantly less than a single tab of the street stuff of which people took multiple tabs of.  Dosed properly it was fine, in fact everyone I gave it too found it very enjoyable.  Some people who were afraid of LSD enjoyed it very much because the lack of a mental trip.

Regardless, people who knew or didn't were taking anywhere from 2-8mg of 25inBOME at once, which is enough to cause permanent damage to seizures to death.  I also knew someone who accidentally took 55mg of DOB, they meant to take 5.5mg of it, but somehow fucked up weighing it.  They had clear overdose symptoms including hyperthermia, confusion, etc. but didn't need a hospital.  Following that episode, they were really burnt out and disassociated though, so I imagine this is a case where some damage was done.  But this person also abused other RCs such as 25i.


I know DMT is a classical psychedelic, but due to it's almost reverse tolerance sometimes one can use it over and over and over all day every day unlike LSD.  I imagine if there was a similar tolerance for things like LSD and mushrooms, people wouldve caused more damage by now abusing the classical psychedelics.  But most all of them except DMT come in with safety protocols via tolerance that keeps people from dosing every day effectively.


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InvisibleWaterGnome20
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Registered: 11/08/23
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Re: Permanent tolerance due to DMT usage [Re: Typerwritermonky]
    #28534327 - 11/08/23 01:59 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Yeah, I have noticed since smoking DMT even once, that I am much more tolerent/resistant/unable to trip from mushrooms now.

*Yet at the same time, I feel somewhat more sensative to shrooms too now, though I think the increased shroom sensativity is because I up-regulated my 5-HT2A receptors with St. Johns Wort for 2+ months.

I can get a solid shroom trip from 1g now. 2G is almost too much.

I don't really get visuals like geometries, it's mostly a brain-experience like intelligence enhancement, closed-eye/imagination visualizations/hallucinations, increased color perception, increased sound perception.

I took a SNRI when I was a teenager which I think permanantly ruined my ability to feel shrooms. Thats why I up-regulated my 5-HT2A with St. Johns Wort and I feel its healed my brain back to normal and given me the ability to trip again, but I can tell I'll never really be able to trip quite as good as I would have been able to if I had never taken the SNRIs (Cymbalta).

That being said, I can confirm that St. Johns Wort DOES work, you just have to take it for weeks straight , every day, for it to start up-regulating your receptors. (Check with your doctor before taking st. johns wort).

I thinking smoking DMT kinda burns you out because:

A. It is just such an extreme overload.

B. Left-over extraction acids and bases can maybe fry your brain a bit? Many extractions use Naptha and Lye both of which can dissolve things, probably including your brain.


I'm glad I didn't smoke DMT any more than that. I'll never smoke DMT again after reading this, luckily I still feel great from shrooms but I do feel kinda... perma-fried from the DMT when it comes to tripping.


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OfflineBardy
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Re: Permanent tolerance due to DMT usage [Re: WaterGnome20] * 1
    #28534403 - 11/08/23 02:45 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

“B. Left-over extraction acids and bases can maybe fry your brain a bit? Many extractions use Naptha and Lye both of which can dissolve things, probably including your brain.”

This is definitely not true.

And Typwriter, what makes you think DMT has reverse tolerance? I remember smoking it multiple times a night a few times and it only ever got duller and eventually stopped working altogether by the end of the night.

That’s crazy about your friend’s DOB experience though.. dosage is a bad thing to screw up with potent drugs.

Yeah, the nBOMEs I had were very visual and warm without the super head fuck. It felt kind of like MDMA with crazy visuals. Not sure which one I was taking but I guess they’re all similar


Edited by Bardy (11/08/23 02:52 PM)


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Permanent tolerance due to DMT usage [Re: Bardy] * 2
    #28534467 - 11/08/23 03:37 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

I had a pretty long romance with DMT and have since found it opened up a set of visuals on mushrooms that I didn't used to perceive before. I only used DMT without harmalas one time though, every other time was with harmalas.


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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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OfflineBardy
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Re: Permanent tolerance due to DMT usage [Re: Northerner]
    #28534497 - 11/08/23 04:03 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

That’s pretty strange 😁 the first few times I did mushies were the most visual for me, then for some reason they tapered down on the visuals… been a fair while since I’ve taken a large dose of them though so maybe my tolerance has reset.


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InvisibleWaterGnome20
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Re: Permanent tolerance due to DMT usage [Re: Bardy]
    #28534980 - 11/08/23 11:46 PM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Bardy said:
“B. Left-over extraction acids and bases can maybe fry your brain a bit? Many extractions use Naptha and Lye both of which can dissolve things, probably including your brain.”

This is definitely not true.

And Typwriter, what makes you think DMT has reverse tolerance? I remember smoking it multiple times a night a few times and it only ever got duller and eventually stopped working altogether by the end of the night.

That’s crazy about your friend’s DOB experience though.. dosage is a bad thing to screw up with potent drugs.

Yeah, the nBOMEs I had were very visual and warm without the super head fuck. It felt kind of like MDMA with crazy visuals. Not sure which one I was taking but I guess they’re all similar





Actually, as expected, I am 100% right:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naphtha

"The safety data sheets (SDSs) from various naphtha vendors indicate various hazards such as flammable mixture of hydrocarbons: flammability, carcinogenicity, skin and airway irritation, etc."

"Naphtha was later removed as a cancer risk."




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lye

"potassium hydroxide (LYE) can be used to digest tissues of animal carcasses."


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Permanent tolerance due to DMT usage [Re: WaterGnome20] * 2
    #28535042 - 11/09/23 02:50 AM (2 months, 18 days ago)

So do you expect to trepan yourself and apply these chemicals directly to your brain?  How else would they get to it?

Have you any idea how difficult it is to actually contaminate a DMT extraction?

I'm just trying to figure out how you are 100% right, because it appears you don't know anything about this topic.


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OfflineBardy
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Re: Permanent tolerance due to DMT usage [Re: WaterGnome20]
    #28535063 - 11/09/23 03:59 AM (2 months, 18 days ago)

Dude 🤦‍♂️ Naphtha isn’t in the final product at all.. Maybe there are teeny tiny trace amounts, but nothing that could  hurt you considering most people aren’t smoking DMT 24/7. It’s a complete non issue if you know what you’re doing with your extraction and you’re not just drinking the shit like a dumbass.

Same goes for sodium hydroxide, which isn’t even that toxic in small amounts anyway. It definitely wouldn’t be good for your lungs, but like I said, if you know what you’re doing with the extraction process then your final product won’t contain any of this anyway.

Like Northerner said, you’re just proving to us how little you actually know about the topic. Now would be the time to gracefully admit you don’t know and you made a mistake.

The dose makes the poison.


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InvisibleWaterGnome20
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Re: Permanent tolerance due to DMT usage [Re: Northerner]
    #28535407 - 11/09/23 10:14 AM (2 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
So do you expect to trepan yourself and apply these chemicals directly to your brain?  How else would they get to it?

Have you any idea how difficult it is to actually contaminate a DMT extraction?

I'm just trying to figure out how you are 100% right, because it appears you don't know anything about this topic.





"trepan"

Sorry I only speak real English, what does "trepan" mean?


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Permanent tolerance due to DMT usage [Re: Plok]
    #28535410 - 11/09/23 10:14 AM (2 months, 17 days ago)

Interesting


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