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OfflineMikesmyco
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Best autoclave for large scale
    #28499589 - 10/11/23 02:29 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Title says it all, on another form I had heard of a well known company doing terrible work and selling shotty autoclaves (330 550 1180L) each not sure if it’s allowed to say specific names or anything but it really put a wrench in my plans, I’m a few weeks away from starting my business and I have already bought a lot of other equipment so I can’t back out now! Anyways looking for solution to autoclave atleast 550-600L once a day many look at used canning retorts but they’re hard to come by any tips are helpful

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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Best autoclave for large scale [Re: Mikesmyco]
    #28499870 - 10/11/23 10:09 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

AFAIK most of the larger scale guys here use steam sterilizers. Autoclaves large enough to run 100+ bags are crazy expensive.


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OfflineCamera93
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Re: Best autoclave for large scale [Re: A.k.a]
    #28500201 - 10/11/23 02:19 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

whats the ticket on those Chinese autoclaves off Ali?


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OfflineMikesmyco
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Re: Best autoclave for large scale [Re: Camera93]
    #28501145 - 10/12/23 02:43 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Like the canning retorts? Not sure, I get a lot of things from Ali but I’ve never ordered a single machine that expensive it’s probably 30-40k plus 20k shipping I’m thinking on the low end, used local retorts can go for 20-30 depending the shape they’re in and they’re usually 50/60 years old

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OfflineMikesmyco
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Re: Best autoclave for large scale [Re: A.k.a]
    #28501146 - 10/12/23 02:44 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Yeah but the steam doesn’t really do it with grain right? I’m looking for the expensive option blue myco was one but I’ve heard of some serious problems with their gear

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Offlinetree frog
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Re: Best autoclave for large scale [Re: Mikesmyco]
    #28501386 - 10/12/23 09:21 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mikesmyco said:
Yeah but the steam doesn’t really do it with grain right? I’m looking for the expensive option blue myco was one but I’ve heard of some serious problems with their gear




Blocks are harder to sterilize than grain.  So if it is designed for blocks it will work for grains.


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Best autoclave for large scale [Re: tree frog]
    #28501925 - 10/12/23 04:24 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Yeah i think they run steamers for 24 hours but you could potentially make the unit as big as you wanted. Even if it’s 100 3lb bags every 24 hours that’s a very big operation.


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OfflineMikesmyco
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Re: Best autoclave for large scale [Re: A.k.a]
    #28507721 - 10/17/23 04:39 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Gotcha I appreciate the info my friend I might give bubbas barrels a call then and see what he has to say about it, 24 hours is a tough turnaround time for what I’m working with though but from what I’m told by friends in the industry that won’t properly sterilize at most pasteurize because unless it’s rated to a higher pressure it won’t achieve enough heat I’ll leave a post with what Eric’s gotta say about it

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Best autoclave for large scale [Re: Mikesmyco] * 2
    #28507802 - 10/17/23 07:30 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

When you're running that much volume you should be using a digital probe to ensure minimum internal temps have been reached, within a central bag (when running atmospheric). People who've been at it (atmospheric sterilization) for a while, know roughly how long to run their batches for, but this is after much trial and error.

When running atmospheric I'd highly recommend using a probe at minimum, but a probe/PID combo would be the best option. I'd also recommend verifying your cycle efficiency with self contained biological indicator ampoules (both atmospheric and autoclave). BI ampoules wouldn't be necessary on each run, but would provide piece of mind when initially dialing in, and if/when you decide to change substrates, sawdust production blocks vs spawn, for example; or 5lb blocks vs 10lb, or when changing the size of your spawn bags.

Be aware that spawn doesn't hold up all that well to long atmospheric exposures, the grains can become mushy, etc. Grain is best sterilized in an autoclave, while atmospheric is best suited for supplemented sawdust blocks.

Atmospheric sterilization will sterilize, it just takes a lot longer. Don't listen to people who claim that sterilization isn't really a thing. Gourmet farmers use spawn sparingly, their supplementation is different, they use either dry powders or soy hulls added to the sawdust blocks.

This supplementation scheme allows them to steam large volumes of production blocks while running smaller batches of spawn in autoclaves. Some farmers are fortunate enough to have walk in, cylindrical autoclaves. Production blocks are not "harder" to sterilize, they're considerably easier to run at atmospheric temps because they don't fall apart after 18+ hours of constant exposure.

Spawn is best run at pressure with high temps. There really isn't a "best for volume" model. You can run a gang of AA 75x', you can purchase one or more of the digital, 150L SS304 Autoclave, you can run a gang of 1941x' on burners...it's all a matter of preference, budget, floor space, volume, etc.

If you need to ask, if you're not capable of figuring this out on your own, you're not ready for any of it, imo; especially when asking this question at such a late stage in planning/execution.

Once you move away from benchtop autoclaves, or small volume vertical autoclaves, and begin toying with larger volume horizontals...well, mucho dinero aside, logistics become increasingly complicated.

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OfflineMikesmyco
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Re: Best autoclave for large scale [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28510148 - 10/19/23 02:08 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Yeah I had figured it out on my own I’m getting the model up from those 150s the 200s but I was just curious to see what other had to input, can never stop learning that’s for sure

I disagree though there always is the best option it’s less subjective nobody in their right minds would be doing large scale production with a bunch of AA unless they have plenty of help with labor obviously the best option like you said is the horizontal canning retorts which I had already lined up for purchase but the seller was absolutely out of her mind she wanted me to purchase it “and her business” for 60k when she just had a reishi iso and a few others she worked with a bit with like 10 stainless steel racks lol kicker is she ALSO still wanted to be able to use it once a month atleast the girls nuts..

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InvisibleFriedEggS
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Re: Best autoclave for large scale [Re: Mikesmyco]
    #28510162 - 10/19/23 02:37 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

you can build your own bubbas barrel style sterilizer with a plastic 55 gallon barrel. there are lots of tutorials on youtube.


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Best autoclave for large scale [Re: Mikesmyco]
    #28510290 - 10/19/23 07:34 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mikesmyco said:
I disagree though there always is the best option it’s less subjective nobody in their right minds would be doing large scale production with a bunch of AA unless they have plenty of help with labor




I hate to break it to you, but this is precisely what farms do, if they didn't, I wouldn't have posted it. There's plenty of farmers here, perhaps one will chime in, sooner or later. I know Aye runs a farm, he uses a gang of AA 941s, if I remember correctly.

There's a Farm here in Canada that I purchase cultures from, the farm is called "what the fungus", same deal, gang of 75x's. He uses large polypropylene baskets with ss false bottoms to run hundreds of sawdust blocks/cycle.

Then there's Earth Angel mushrooms, T.R began using bench tops before moving to larger, horizontal autoclaves.

Then we have Myers Mushrooms, also a TC here though I don't believe he's been active in a while; he started the same way. Myers, or G0wer, as he's referred to here, used PID controlled Prestos, and All americans before upgrading to horizontal. Myers helped design the Bubba's Barrels atmospheric sterilizers.

I'm almost certain that Southwest Mushrooms utilizes large Bubba Barrels with PIDs to run sawdust, and AA 941s + 75x's to produce spawn and culture media.

The list goes on....There's other farmers here who do the same, I'll let them speak for themselves, if they choose.

Quote:


obviously the best option like you said is the horizontal canning retorts




This isn't all that obvious. Like I said, it's dependent upon a number of factors, not least being budget and availability, volume, plus the ability to actual run/maintain one of those units, etc.

I wouldn't bet my business on atmospheric sterilization for spawn, just too risky, imo; but, I am just a guy on the internet :shrug:

I hope you get it sorted. Are you intending to grow gourmet species or is this an active grow?

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OfflineMikesmyco
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Re: Best autoclave for large scale [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28526099 - 11/02/23 12:14 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I appreciate your knowledge stipe! I am in no way trying to diminish those successful farms/farmers however I can get realll nerdy on efficiency and labor matrix’s (probably to a point of ocd to be fair) and am less constrained by budget, plus I have a 75x and a few 41 AA and I don’t care much for the efficiency in terms of space or labor it provides

I share your opinion on the atmospheric sterilization being a bit risky I have chosen the 200L autoclave that I have sourced through help of friends and they are much cheaper than what is normally offered. (Let alone the cook times are astronomical)

It is an active grow I am in a legal area hoping to bring the medicine to the people!

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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Best autoclave for large scale [Re: Mikesmyco] * 3
    #28526196 - 11/02/23 05:59 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Good luck man.

Assuming you’re American in a legal state it might be rough, word on the streets is the market saturated out recently and you can’t even give cubes away.


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Invisiblestockw

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Re: Best autoclave for large scale [Re: A.k.a]
    #28526218 - 11/02/23 06:43 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Intresting. I've been wondering what the outcome would be in legal states in regards to saturation & prices as I'm in a country which looks like it could be following that path. Doesn't look good then eh?

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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: Best autoclave for large scale [Re: stockw] * 1
    #28526220 - 11/02/23 06:47 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

We're already hitting saturation point in non-legal countries.
Cubes are being sold for peanuts, peanuts are probably worth more.

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OfflineTiamo
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Re: Best autoclave for large scale [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #28526223 - 11/02/23 06:55 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I wonder why weed didn't become dirt cheap in legal areas?


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Best autoclave for large scale [Re: A.k.a] * 1
    #28526225 - 11/02/23 06:56 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
the market saturated out recently and you can’t even give cubes away.




even in illegal areas the market is rather saturated. up until a few years ago shrooms seem to come in batches but nowadays they are plentiful. everyone has shrooms. at least in my area:shrug:

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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: Best autoclave for large scale [Re: Tiamo]
    #28526230 - 11/02/23 07:03 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I think it's probably because mushrooms are actually damn easy to grow qty vs quality weed.

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Best autoclave for large scale [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #28526233 - 11/02/23 07:08 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

yah im figuring that one out:lol:

growing literal trash bags of dicks is not hard. its just expansion and basic math.

growing just a pound of primo bud is fucking hard:lol: but plants are easier overall imo.

just not at any scale. although im getting better:blush:

Edited by mushboy (11/02/23 07:10 AM)

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