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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,010
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
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Re: Unsolicited advice about the problem of giving of advice... Cringception. [Re: Lithop] 1
#28554702 - 11/24/23 07:12 AM (2 months, 3 days ago) |
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You make a some relevant insightful points I can relate to - such as below. I used to complain to JSB that many of my posts here cultivated various types of disturbances within me. He always told me my posts were fine. I disagreed. Many bother me! I ban myself from here periodically.
BTW, I the Sharon Salzberg reference!
Quote:
Lithop said:
... Whatever the intent, it can come across a bit pompous. My compulsion to make this comment is mainly because I've long been so like that too, offering unsolicited advice to everyone around me in a reactive way because GOD FORBID it's ME who has a problem, who has to develop, who is more often wrong than right... Doesn't mean I don't have true inentions toward those around me, but when I always need the world to line up just so for me to be able to feel at peace/comfortable- is it likely that the whole external world is what needs addressed? These desires to help can run amok and become something much less useful.
Don't get me wrong this place is great, I love it and get a lot out of talking to my friends on here, reading threads, seeing dank canopies and any amounts of the delightful fuckery that goes on but I think we can all do well to take a step out of the roles we play from time to time if only to better appreciate and enjoy the sense of community available here. Several times this year I've seen myself get puffed up after a few posts that I deem as being well recieved then get embarassed over something janky I say and ban myself for a month for my lack of impulse control 
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Lithop
Spaghetti Days


Registered: 04/09/22
Posts: 764
Loc: 🛸
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Re: Unsolicited advice about the problem of giving of advice... Cringception. [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#28554713 - 11/24/23 07:30 AM (2 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: You make a some relevant insightful points I can relate to - such as below. I used to complain to JSB that many of my posts here cultivated various types of disturbances within me. He always told me my posts were fine. I disagreed. Many bother me! I ban myself from here periodically.
BTW, I the Sharon Salzberg reference!
Yeah, personally, I often end up finding value in feeling those disturbances, doesn't mean it's a 'nice' feeling though. And then comes trying to deal with it appropriately without causing more disturbance to myself... Do you learn from the ones that bother you, you reckon?
I seem to do one, where I make a joke out of my insecurity/ want for external approval so as to make it seem like I don't care before immediately realising how transparent it comes across.Those always bug the hell out of me 
 Also, I love Sharon Salzberg too!
 wait a second... am I being therapied by Genesis thread?!
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,010
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
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Re: Unsolicited advice about the problem of giving of advice... Cringception. [Re: Lithop]
#28554731 - 11/24/23 07:54 AM (2 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Lithop said:
Yeah, personally, I often end up finding value in feeling those disturbances, doesn't mean it's a 'nice' feeling though. And then comes trying to deal with it appropriately without causing more disturbance to myself... Do you learn from the ones that bother you, you reckon?
Absolutely! I've learned a lot! On one hand, I passionately despise text only communication, as it can feel so inhuman and so inhumane to not partake of the emotional nourishment of eye contact and facial expressions, and a handshake or even a hug. Yet, I'm overcome with fascination and curiosity when I read someone's words that make my blood boil and my head gets hot and my hands sweat. Now that's a fucking awesome education! I ask myself, "What the hell is going on?!"
Edited by RJ Tubs 202 (11/24/23 07:56 AM)
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TheStallionMang
Do U know who yur fuckin with?


Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 4,523
Loc:
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Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: Honestly, I really like RGV. Like genuinely. He seems like a really cool guy. I just have different opinions. And it seems like he wants to make fun of me for it. Psychedelic gummy bears?
Dude was never making fun of you. You just read shit that way and that's squarely on you bub
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Lithop
Spaghetti Days


Registered: 04/09/22
Posts: 764
Loc: 🛸
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Re: Unsolicited advice about the problem of giving of advice... Cringception. [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#28554772 - 11/24/23 08:45 AM (2 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: Absolutely! I've learned a lot! On one hand, I passionately despise text only communication, as it can feel so inhuman and so inhumane to not partake of the emotional nourishment of eye contact and facial expressions, and a handshake or even a hug. Yet, I'm overcome with fascination and curiosity when I read someone's words that make my blood boil and my head gets hot and my hands sweat. Now that's a fucking awesome education! I ask myself, "What the hell is going on?!"
Agreed on the pitfalls of text only communication. On that note have seen many peers, and myself, failing to grasp why the subtlties of in person communication get lost in translation. Maybe it's more of a problem for certain generations onward who have grown up in a time where screen communication is so prominent.
Response wise, it's definitely interesting and as you say, awesome education to feel the extent of our own reactions to words on a screen- I know I often project the worst possible tone on stuff I disagree with- even if none is explicitly implied. Just one way that can really muddy up the actual content of the message...
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TheStallionMang
Do U know who yur fuckin with?


Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 4,523
Loc:
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Worst therapist constest [Re: Lithop] 1
#28554773 - 11/24/23 08:46 AM (2 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Lithop said: Genny, you seem like a fun & sound fella- I can relate to your what your underlying intentions seem to be, for real. But I also reckon it's largely your M.O that brings a lot of the resistance you seem get from people on here, resistance you fight again and again. I see a sort of performative aspect to many of your posts, your prescence and how they link up- that might just be by the nature of this being an open forum- but I see it as going a little beyond that into the region of you wanting to be seen to do/be 'good'.
Look, for example, at the weight you put on how you think others percieve your opinions, prime or most recent example being where you tell RGV to recheck your review of him... Whatever the inent, it can come across a bit pompous. My compulsion to make this comment is mainly because I've long been so like that too, offering unsolicited advice to everyone around me in a reactive way because GOD FORBID it's ME who has a problem, who has to develop, who is more often wrong than right... Doesn't mean I don't have true inentions toward those around me, but when I always need the world to line up just so for me to be able to feel at peace/comfortable- is it likely that the whole external world is what needs addressed? These desires to help can run amok and become something much less useful.
Even still I catch myself trying to ingratiate myself with shroomerites who I look up to and so on. The TLDR being trying to feel some sembelance of self worth by manipulating a situation to get someone else to point it out to me as if it were their idea. It's fucking embarassing and cringey and it doesn't make me feel good when I'm obsessing about it after the fact but sometimes these well trodden paths seem to walk themselves while "we" are just along for the ride. Reactivity in a nutshell.
It's seemingly part of the selfs endless P.R campaign of "Look how good, look how approachable, look how useful!" many of us have going on within, an attempt to heal mistakes of the past by leaving no doubt as to the virtue we like to think we have grown into.
Lets say I was learning to weld, with the intention of becoming a great fabricator for my community- would it be appropriate for me to outright offer "free welding" to randos out of kindness as I develop my skills? I don't think it would. My unqualified attempts could put people in danger at worst and somewhere where my misguided attempt needs repaired by a professional, thereby leaving them in a slightly worse spot than where they started, at best. So perhaps by offering 'therapy' instead of treating each interaction with people with the nuance it calls for isn't the best approach to demonstrate the love you have in you that clearly wants putting to some use.
One of the tops comments on that video is the T.S Eliot quote: “Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm; but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves.”
It's not to say you're not nice, it just seems like a personality quirk that you're not really open to acknowledging... You elude to being in some sort of recovery from an accident, so with all due respect how about using more of the time to really immerse yourself in a bunch of damn good books, perhaps increasing the length or effort involved in your meditation sessions (assuming you have one) or any number of activities that would genuinely serve you in good stead moving forward- rather than having to rehash the same bits and bobs time & again on the mushroom website?
 Don't get me wrong this place is great, I love it and get a lot out of talking to my friends on here, reading threads, seeing dank canopies and any amounts of the delightful fuckery that goes on but I think we can all do well to take a step out of the roles we play from time to time if only to better appreciate and enjoy the sense of community available here. Several times this year I've seen myself get puffed up after a few posts that I deem as being well recieved then get embarassed over something janky I say and ban myself for a month for my lack of impulse control 
Remember your title mate: you've got student and a Daoist in there so why not make a concerted affort to let the way teach you and by cultivating the more receptive parts of yourself, more YIN & perhaps you'll ease into a way of being able to help others that is less obscured by your expectations/agenda. I'd rather count among my friends, one genuine student rather than ten questionable teachers. Discerning compassion. All things considered, I hope you see this comment for what it is intended to be, not as outright advice as much as an attempt to relate and share potential insight from another young guy who seems to share many similar foibles.
 Step into my office: I prescribe a careful viewing of Pixars 'Soul' and some I.V Sharon Salzberg, stat!
 All the best man.

This is an excellent post, however, OP isn't interested in constructive criticism and dismisses without thought any notions that go against what he already believes. If that doesn't work, he'll pretend you said something else and adress the thing he made up that you said
These are all traits that great therapists have...
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Lithop
Spaghetti Days


Registered: 04/09/22
Posts: 764
Loc: 🛸
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Quote:
TheStallionMang said: This is an excellent post, however, OP isn't interested in constructive criticism and dismisses without thought any notions that go against what he already believes. If that doesn't work, he'll pretend you said something else and adress the thing he made up that you said
These are all traits that great therapists have...

Lol @ edited subject heading  Appreciate where you're coming from, but I still stand by my stance! I do feel Genesis is a well meaning guy- it's just easy to get caught up in conversational mischief on the computer and end up painting yourself into a corner.
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




Registered: 08/01/23
Posts: 7,182
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Considering the message I got. I think RGV checked it. Quote:
redgreenvines said: the science on NREM dreams is weakly based upon self reporting, and a difficulty in assessing REM.
During REM either alpha or (usually) theta rhythms are detected (they are not ever detected in NREM - therefore REM is associated with the alpha and theta neural activation waves***), and events that can be correlated with experiencing are visible in many areas of the cortex - this indicates a scientific record of dream events. Self reporting does not work for NDE's or for NREM dreams, those investigative forays are deeply flawed. Self reporting can be made up on the instant of questioning, and nobody can determine the truth.
NREM dreams can be co-opted to support consciousness that is not brain based, and I think that direction in science is also flawed. The literature about brain and behaviour is full of good and flawed approaches, so a person interested in it has to keep their mind open and follow the most reliable approaches, like for example, the fact that memory is an associative function.
(***) It is actually possible to have alpha or theta activation without REM, but it is extremely rare, and to ascertain this we need accurate EEG's accompanying the NREM time series detection of the event.
I would avoid referencing this fringe aspect of possibilities as a key to your dream therapies.
I appreciate the comment. It wasn’t about ego that I said that I wanted him to check my review. He doesn’t accept any PM. This comment means he did read it. I also never claimed that non-rem sleep dreams play a major role in any interpretations. I even tell people that they are very benign. Thus don’t offer very much insight into anything. I like analyzing rem sleep dreams. Every now and then somebody will show up with something super boring about them hanging out in a room reading something. Or waiting in a car to go somewhere. That is clearly not a rem sleep dream. I left the evidence in the review. I try not to take this site seriously. I’m also not offering to build anyone houses out of my Therapy. (Potentially giving somebody advice that could get them hurt.) I even tell people at the top that you should seek professional help if you’re really having a problem. But if I could back somebody away from the edge of a cliff, I want to try to do that. I hope nobody has a problem with me doing that in the future. This isn’t supposed to be a place for me to get put onto the cross though. I just wanted people to express feelings about their shitty dad. I don’t know why that’s debatable. But I don’t deny that you have the ability to do that. I’m not going to engage that’s all.
Edited by GenesisCorrupted (11/25/23 08:11 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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you just did, again, dragging up the NREM thing and showing how little you understand about mental activity - any dream is mental activity - any response to anything mental is mental activity. NREM is no mental activity.
adding NREM to your dream analyses is pretentious. bringing it back to every thread we participate in is an outcry for attention. What kind of attention, I am not sure.
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TheStallionMang
Do U know who yur fuckin with?


Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 4,523
Loc:
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Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: This isn’t supposed to be a place for me to get put onto the cross though
Ok martyr boy. You're acting like a douche bag and get called out then compare yourself to jesus fucking christ and claim we're crucifying you? That's pretty telling about who you are
You've been here about 15 min and should not make any claims about what this place is, or should or shouldn't be. You're a newb here and this place is what it is despite anything you feel or say about it
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TheStallionMang
Do U know who yur fuckin with?


Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 4,523
Loc:
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Re: Most disingenuous conversationalist contest - GC is WINNING!!! [Re: TheStallionMang]
#28554928 - 11/24/23 11:51 AM (2 months, 3 days ago) |
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Someone quote the above post so GC can read it. I picked up my 1st ignore in years and I'm sure it's him
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




Registered: 08/01/23
Posts: 7,182
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Last seen: 6 minutes, 12 seconds
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No I’m just trying to poke at you. I disagree.
For psychedelic gummy bears.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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What are NDEs?
And yeah, a lot of dream 'recollection' is made up to the best of our ability.
I didn't actually remember a lot of the dream and creatively pasted in what I kinda felt or wanted to be the filler to have a somewhat coherent story going on.
I wrote about my dream as soon as I woke up, but even within that few minutes the vividness of it faded. If I left it any longer then the recollection would be far more faded.
I'm not referencing rem or not rem or any of that, it'd be crazy to do so outside of laboratory conditions.
I'm just saying I wrote down my recollection of a dream as soon as I woke up, but acknowledge that me 'remembering' my dream isn't directly associative of the events in my dream, as my writing of the events have imaginary patchworks within.
There's nothing to prove and no one can interpret the dream, I can only reflect on the patchy notes I took upon waking.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Worst dad contest (Therapy) [Re: sudly] 1
#28555072 - 11/24/23 02:25 PM (2 months, 2 days ago) |
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NDE's are the Near Death Experiences that people report after emerging from anaesthesia in surgeries after flat lining.
I maintain that when flat lined there was no experience, but during resuscitation and recovery from unconsciousness a brief REM dream creates the NDE dream skeleton of experience that gets fleshed out by the patient.
NREM or dreamless sleep is like flat lining in relation to mental contents.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Worst dad contest (Therapy) [Re: sudly] 1
#28555074 - 11/24/23 02:26 PM (2 months, 2 days ago) |
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As far as my own reflections go, this is what I gathered from the notes on my dream last night.
Quote:
The Tale of the Seeker and the Traveler: Journey with the Twin Idols
In a world where the echoes of the past intertwined with the whispers of the future, there lived two individuals: a seeker, known for their deep curiosity, and a traveler, marked by an unquenchable thirst for understanding the mysteries of life. Both were visited by the same ageless dragon, a custodian of timeless wisdom, under a canopy of whispering stars. To each, the dragon presented two enigmatic idols: one smiling with joy yet shrouded in sorrow, and the other grimacing in anger but radiating subtle happiness.
Compelled by their respective desires to understand life's complexities, the seeker and the traveler each spent time with these idols. The seeker, holding the idol of joy, felt waves of sorrow reshape their perception of happiness, while the traveler, with the same idol, experienced profound sorrow that tinted their view of joy. Conversely, when each held the idol of anger, they found unexpected joy, either reshaping the seeker's understanding or revealing deep-seated happiness to the traveler. In these moments, both transcended the ordinary flow of time, delving into the intricate dance of emotions, seeing the world through a lens that transcended ordinary experiences.
As the celestial cycle marked the end of this timeless journey, both the seeker and the traveler approached the dragon to return the idols and share their insights. Each spoke of how they journeyed through the emotional spectrum with the idols and sought to understand the essence of their experiences.
The dragon, listening to both, with eyes that had seen the turning of ages, took back the idols. “In your journeys, you have each traversed the dual nature of the heart. What truths have you unearthed?”
Both the seeker and the traveler realised that within the idol of joy lay hidden depths of sorrow and within the idol of anger, a wellspring of happiness. They understood that emotions, much like these idols, were complex, each aspect revealing and concealing parts of the inner self.
However, both journeys were strewn with challenges. Shadowy figures, born from their own doubts and fears, emerged along their paths, whispering of false paths and illusions. But each, armed with the light of inner wisdom – a flame kindled from within for the traveler, a beacon of resolve for the seeker – learned to face these shadows, understanding their role in the journey of self-discovery.
This confrontation with the shadows taught them a profound lesson: in the odyssey of life, one cannot simply evade challenges and fears; they are essential to the journey, each shadow adding nuance and depth to the whole.
Reflecting upon their odysseys, both the seeker and the traveler understood the nature of control in life. Like using hands or horns to sift through sand, control could be delicate and precise or broad and sweeping. Both methods reveal different truths hidden within the sands of existence. Control, they comprehended, was not about mastering every grain but about understanding and adapting to the ever-changing patterns of life.
Thus, the tale of the seeker and the traveler with the twin idols spread, teaching that in the grand narrative of life, control is a dance with the ever-shifting sands of experiences, emotions, and the shadows they cast. It is a journey of embracing, understanding, and harmonising with the myriad aspects of existence, each moment a step in the intricate dance of life.
I don't claim any meaning to this, I just enjoyed the experience and reflecting on it.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: NDE's are the Near Death Experiences that people report after emerging from anaesthesia in surgeries after flat lining.
I maintain that when flat lined there was no experience, but during resuscitation and recovery from consciousness a brief REM dream creates the NDE dream skeleton of experience that gets fleshed out by the patient.
NREM or dreamless sleep is like flat lining in relation to mental contents.
Oh yeah, my flat line experience was just that, a flat line, true nothing to be experienced, or not, because it wasn't anything.
I fear no hell or heaven in death.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,127
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Re: Worst dad contest (Therapy) [Re: sudly] 1
#28555083 - 11/24/23 02:30 PM (2 months, 2 days ago) |
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I have experienced the void on a breakthrough dose of 5-MeO-DMT. It ain't no joke.
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




Registered: 08/01/23
Posts: 7,182
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 6 minutes, 12 seconds
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Re: Bad Father’s (Therapy) [Re: sudly]
#28556489 - 11/25/23 08:14 PM (2 months, 1 day ago) |
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Yeah, not to poop on your guys parade about your flat line.
Your brain stays alive for 12 minutes after you die. It doesn’t need very much oxygen. So in those 12 minutes. While time dilation is happening. I’m pretty sure your brain does stuff. So enjoy thinking about that.
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Bardy


Registered: 04/02/14
Posts: 2,184
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Quote:
TheStallionMang said:
Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: This isn’t supposed to be a place for me to get put onto the cross though
Ok martyr boy. You're acting like a douche bag and get called out then compare yourself to jesus fucking christ and claim we're crucifying you? That's pretty telling about who you are
You've been here about 15 min and should not make any claims about what this place is, or should or shouldn't be. You're a newb here and this place is what it is despite anything you feel or say about it
Quote:
TheStallionMang said: Someone quote the above post so GC can read it. I picked up my 1st ignore in years and I'm sure it's him
Lol
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




Registered: 08/01/23
Posts: 7,182
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 6 minutes, 12 seconds
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It’s a legal term. Cross examination. Look it up. Also. Quotes don’t show up when you ignore people. It literally just doesn’t appear in other peoples comments if they try and quote somebody your ignoring.

I am the one ignoring you. I un ignored you, so I could check what this guy was laughing about. The reason I’m ignoring you was actually because a month ago. You just jumped at the chance to make a bunch of assumptions about me. Because I mentioned that I wear a retainer.
It feels like you harbor some resentment towards me. So I’m just gonna leave you on ignore for a while.
This ain’t high school Mang, try and cool off.
Edited by GenesisCorrupted (11/25/23 09:04 PM)
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