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OfflineBeefSupremeJr
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Re: PF Tek Penis Envy from liquid culture very slow. OK? [Re: Fidelus]
    #28509351 - 10/18/23 11:30 AM (3 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Mainet2r12 said:
Quote:

BeefSupremeJr said:
Quote:

Mainet2r12 said:
If Stamets books are outdated, can you direct me to the state of the art?  Other books or perhaps articles with some science based growing data?  Thanks for the help folks.




You have not read the hitchhikers guide to the shroomery and it shows.




OK, thanks for the advice.  When you grow up and learn to be pleasant, give advice without the snarky holier than though tone, you might become a person who is able to make friends.  That said, I don’t mind the pissy delivery as long as the information is useful.

Does that directory have the scientific experiments to back up the claims that 70F is a good temp for mycelium propagation?




Hey man, no offense intended. Relax.  It was a joke. I responded to you at length in my own thread. I've no issue making friends and I've contributed hundreds of hours of my time to contributing useful information. 

Im happy to try to help you but slow your roll please.


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OfflineMrJong
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Re: PF Tek Penis Envy from liquid culture very slow. OK? [Re: BeefSupremeJr]
    #28509460 - 10/18/23 12:46 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

BeefSupremeJr said:
Hey man, no offense intended. Relax.  It was a joke. I responded to you at length in my own thread. I've no issue making friends and I've contributed hundreds of hours of my time to contributing useful information. 

Im happy to try to help you but slow your roll please.




I forget whose signature it was that stated something along the lines of "It doesn't matter what you think of me, all that matters is healthy spawn."


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: PF Tek Penis Envy from liquid culture very slow. OK? [Re: MrJong]
    #28509462 - 10/18/23 12:47 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)

Cronicr


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OfflineBeefSupremeJr
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Re: PF Tek Penis Envy from liquid culture very slow. OK? [Re: MrJong] * 1
    #28509476 - 10/18/23 12:58 PM (3 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

MrJong said:
Quote:

BeefSupremeJr said:
Hey man, no offense intended. Relax.  It was a joke. I responded to you at length in my own thread. I've no issue making friends and I've contributed hundreds of hours of my time to contributing useful information. 

Im happy to try to help you but slow your roll please.




I forget whose signature it was that stated something along the lines of "It doesn't matter what you think of me, all that matters is healthy spawn."




"i hope you all find the correct skin thickening tek well before the feds knock on your door"

guess who said that


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InvisibleFidelusS
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Re: PF Tek Penis Envy from liquid culture very slow. OK? [Re: BeefSupremeJr]
    #28513183 - 10/21/23 03:17 PM (3 months, 6 days ago)

Thanks for the time and help with your advice and opinions.  I’ve backed off on the heat mat a bit but I’m gonna let this batch run its course with the setup I’ve got.  Good news is that the mycelium is progressing down the jars, not stalled, just slow.  I’ve read that PE is a slow grower and that’s what makes it a tough grow; more time for contamination to take over. So far so good on that front.  The super sterile procedures are paying off.

In addition to buying the jars all loaded and autoclaved from Midwest, I also sterilized the room with bleach and with a strong UV light for several days before starting the injections.

I’ll post pics at birth, and again if they fruit.

One last time on this question, which is not in the Hitchhikers guide nor answered above.  If you don’t recommend any kind of humidifier, how do you maintain the 90% these things need?

And this one, how do you suggest keeping the CO2 level down and O2 up, just no lid at all?

Thanks


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OfflineScrewup
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Re: PF Tek Penis Envy from liquid culture very slow. OK? [Re: Fidelus]
    #28513189 - 10/21/23 03:27 PM (3 months, 6 days ago)

You didn’t sterilize anything just sanitized. Get a SAB and voila.


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InvisibleMycolorado
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Re: PF Tek Penis Envy from liquid culture very slow. OK? [Re: Fidelus]
    #28513192 - 10/21/23 03:34 PM (3 months, 6 days ago)

:whathesaid:
Forget bleach and uv.  Work in a sab and get rid of the heat mats. 

Read this, make your own jars and fruit in a water tub. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24179086


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InvisibleFidelusS
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Disinfect, sterilize, santize [Re: Mycolorado]
    #28514234 - 10/22/23 01:58 PM (3 months, 5 days ago)

Correct, the term Sterilize is misused.  It is probably impossible to achieve 100% kill on all organisms in any room other than a specialized one.  However, you might want to look at the research data on UV and reconsider…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_germicidal_irradiation

I’ve been using UV to disinfect water for consumption in the backcountry, as have many others, and it works.  Even “dirty water”, while tasking bad will not carry any live pathogens or eggs after UV exposure.  I used UV sized for use in a room both inside the flow hood, and in several places in the room, over a period of two days prior to inoculation.  That was after washing with a bleach solution. Bleach is demonstrated to kill up to 99% of bacteria if mixed correctly and allowed to rest on the surface as recommended.

I think its a bit more complicated than you suggest, “just get a still air box”.  If you don’t disinfect the interior of the SAB, your gloves, and equipment, don’t you think there will be contaminants in the box?  Even if you don’t think so, there will be…

The UV is so effective I was cautioned against using it in a room with colonizing mycelium, but I can if I put a box over the tub, and I do.  UV demonstrably kills airborne contaminants as well as those on the surface.

I’ll check on the water tub method, but no way am I gonna stop using the flow hood, UV and bleach.

Thanks again!


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OfflineScrewup
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Re: Disinfect, sterilize, santize [Re: Fidelus] * 1
    #28514248 - 10/22/23 02:05 PM (3 months, 5 days ago)

Well we all use SABS and I don’t even disinfect mine anymore so…no it’s fine even if there is.


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OfflineBeefSupremeJr
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Re: Disinfect, sterilize, santize [Re: Fidelus] * 3
    #28514259 - 10/22/23 02:12 PM (3 months, 5 days ago)

Thats just not how a sab works.  It doesnt work by creating a sterile environment by itself being sterile.

You seem to think these concepts havent been considered or tried and they have-- ad nauseam.  Even without a hood we achieve a damn-near 100% success rate.  hoods are great by themselves but the bleach and uv..

Its outdated and obsolete. 

Listen man, i appeciate your curious nature and eagerness to learn. I do hope youre having fun reinventing the wheel but please dont assume we are just too dense to have considered these ideas. 

best of luck.  have  fun


Edited by BeefSupremeJr (10/22/23 02:13 PM)


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InvisibleMycolorado
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Re: Disinfect, sterilize, santize [Re: Fidelus] * 3
    #28514274 - 10/22/23 02:20 PM (3 months, 5 days ago)

If you have a hood, there’s no need for a sab.  Your understanding of cultivation and the fact that you’re doing pf tek led me to believe you were working in open air which is why I suggested it.  As far as disinfecting the interior of a sab, yeah, it helps to clean stuff up but no need for bleach and uv….simply wiping down and letting things settle before working is typically sufficient.  But, you have a hood so that’s moot.  As far as using bleach and uv to clean your entire grow space, that’s ridiculous…contaminants everywhere…they’re ubiquitous.  Thousands of cultivators on this site and elsewhere are producing hundreds of thousands of canopies in tubs, spawning in open air, some in dingy environments. Labs across the word have been doing microbiological work for decades on nutrient rich mediums and aren’t dousing their labs in bleach and uv rays.  Why you think it’s necessary in order to grow some mush via pf tek speaks to your current lack of understanding of both cultivation and contaminants and how the effect grows.  You can learn from the experienced cultivators trying to give you sound advice, through trial and error or just continue with what you’re doing which is pointless.


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OfflineKinoko314
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Re: Disinfect, sterilize, santize [Re: Fidelus] * 3
    #28514283 - 10/22/23 02:26 PM (3 months, 5 days ago)

A Still-Air-Box is not a Clean-Air-Box.  It works with gravity to allow contaminant particles to settle.  Most of us rarely clean our SABs, and it doesn't cause a problem.

UV can sanitize, but it becomes less effective the farther away you are, and doesn't go through any dust and dirt, so your SAB (or whatever) will have to be kept pretty clean as well.  Wiping with ISO is more effective.  I bought a UV wand when I started this hobby, and I can safely say that I never use it anymore.


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Disinfect, sterilize, santize [Re: Fidelus] * 4
    #28514324 - 10/22/23 02:52 PM (3 months, 5 days ago)

UV-C lamps are not permitted on cabinets at the NIH because the risk outweighs the benefit, If it's not good enough for them, it's not good enough for you.

UV-C provides a false sense of security, much like using antibacterial agar but without gruesome DNA mutations. UV-C has very few, if any uses for home cultivation purposes, unless you're attempting some advanced mutagenesis type shenanigans.

UV-C absolutely does not outperform isopropyl for sanitizing your work surfaces, ISO conveniently comes with zero risk. You cannot sanitize the atmosphere, so stop trying.


Quote:


Ultraviolet radiation is a form of non-ionizing radiation, and biological effects from it vary with wavelength, photon energy, and duration of exposure. The 100-280 nm wavelength band is designated as UV-C, which is used for germicidal purposes.

The sterilization/decontamination activity of UV lights is limited by a number of factors, including:

Penetration – In the dynamic air streams of BSCs, microorganisms beneath dust particles, plastics, and work surfaces are not affected by the UV light because it cannot penetrate particles so far from the UV source.

Relative humidity – The germicidal effects of UV light drop off precipitously when relative humidity is above 70%.

Temperature and air movement – The optimum temperature for the UV lamp to be effective is 77-80 degrees F. Temperatures below this range result in reduced efficacy, and air movement can exacerbate this.

Cleanliness – Dust and dirt block the germicidal effectiveness of the UV lamp, so weekly cleanings are necessary.

Age – Check UV lamps every six months to assure proper function, as the amount of germicidal wavelength emitted decreases with bulb age and hours of use.

Overuse – UV lights are routinely left on overnight or longer in an effort to decontaminate workspaces, but this practice can result in the germicidal wavelength no longer being produced by the bulb.

For these reasons and other concerns, the National Sanitation Foundation (NSF) does not recommend the use of UV lights




https://www.ehs.washington.edu/about/latest-news/trouble-uv-light-your-biosafety-cabinet


The National Sanitation Foundation  discourages the use of UV-C. UV-C has no place in your home cult lab. UV-C is absolutely 100% pointless and represents an unnecessary health risk. Straight up noobs arguing in favor of x technique or technology without the appropriate foundational knowledge/wisdom appears to be becoming the hallmark of psychoactive fungi cultivation.

Take pride in your work, do the appropriate research, and listen to those here who have been around for a while; You might be surprised to discover that they actually know a thing or two.

If you have questions regarding equipment function and efficacy, read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27615199

Quote:

BeefSupremeJr said:
"i hope you all find the correct skin thickening tek well before the feds knock on your door"

guess who said that




:howyoudoing:


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OfflineScrewup
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Re: Disinfect, sterilize, santize [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28514950 - 10/23/23 03:38 AM (3 months, 4 days ago)

Jesus Christ guys chill he’s fuckin dead at this point


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InvisibleFidelusS
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Re: Disinfect, sterilize, santize [Re: Screwup]
    #28515122 - 10/23/23 09:28 AM (3 months, 4 days ago)

Hey Screwup, thanks for throwing some chill on that…

OK, here goes…

There is no point debating the UV light.  The data is out there and to me it just looks like a zero effort, no cost (now that I own it), zero risk (the room is sealed and it operates remotely) way to reduce the potential for contamination.  I’ll just keep on keepin on.

Since the flow hood is here, and its easy to use, I’ll just do that.  I get how the SAB works and it sure is a cheap solution.  It is clear that you all are getting results using it.

And there is this about ISO:
“70% Ethanol
Aqueous alcohol solutions are not appropriate for surface decontamination because of the evaporative nature of the solution; a contact time of ten minutes or more is necessary and not achievable using a 70% (v/v) aqueous solution of ethanol. 70% ethanol can be used to soak small pieces of surgical instruments and for wipe downs following a disinfectant (e.g., 10% bleach) that might leave a corrosive residue.“

From this site: https://ehs.stanford.edu/reference/comparing-different-disinfectants

So, there is one data point that suggests the ISO is not effective and bleach is.

Two points were made above by Beef and others. One, this crew is achieving success and has been using methods that have evolved over time via trail and error, proving to be successful with less effort.  And two, what’s wrong with me?  Don’t I respect you all.

Regarding two, I do.  Of course I do.  Otherwise why be here? Why ask? Why engage?  C’mon man, the scientific man questions, looks for proof and disproof, challenges, offers ideas…. Isn't that how you all got so good at what you do?

Regarding one, are you all done?  Nothing more to discuss and learn about?  Everyone achieving perfect grows with zero contamination loss ever?  If that’s the case then just collect what you know into one doc and close the books, sign off, enjoy the sunshine.  Truly, anyone who just wants to reinvent a wheel doesn’t need your guidance doing it.

I, being a tech nerd, engineer, biz operator and a pilot will definitely overthink and prepare pretty much anything I get into.  So I bought all the books and read all the words and watched a bunch of vids.  The takeaways were, contamination, contamination and contamination, then some other stuff.  Reminded me of my biz prof and his real estate advice, location, location, location… He was mostly right.  And I’m guessing the folks who obsess on cleanliness are mostly right too.

How do we get there?  That’s all I’m trying to learn about.  As a pilot of 40 years I’ve seen friends and other die…. Mostly shortcuts, lack of focus, attempting the impossible.  All preventable and tragic.  It shapes my approach to everything, not just flying.  Its about the preparation, the planning and the execution, with not shortcuts or bullshit excuses.  That’s what keeps you alive in a domain that will absolutely kill you.  Flying informs my approach to everything and I’m not ashamed of that.  Its surely overkill sometimes, but the only thing getting killed is time.

So folks, I truly appreciate the guidance, your interest in my success, your willingness to respond and point me at articles of interest and to be familiar enough to fire off when you want to.  Its all good.

I get it. The goal is to achieve a successful grow without unnecessary complexity. I’m in.

As an update, today is week 4.  All but two of the jars have propagated to the bottom of the jar when viewed from the side. I see no contamination or dead spots. So the grow is slow but not stalled or dying.  In a few days I’ll lift each one out and check the bottoms, check the sides for “pull away”.  I hope I can birth this brood early next week.  The two strains are Penis Envy and Blue Meanie.  They appear to be propagating at the same rate.  When I start fruiting I’ll split the brood into two tubs so I can keep them separate.  Looking forward to some human trails to learn if there is any difference in potency. :smile:


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OfflineBeefSupremeJr
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Re: Disinfect, sterilize, santize [Re: Fidelus] * 1
    #28515124 - 10/23/23 09:32 AM (3 months, 4 days ago)

okay man.  let us know when you get some canopies and im sure we will all be very interested to know your methods.


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OfflineRoscoeReturnsS
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Re: Disinfect, sterilize, santize [Re: Fidelus] * 3
    #28515131 - 10/23/23 09:43 AM (3 months, 4 days ago)

UVC works. It just doesn’t work well, and the negatives add up quick.

UVC lamps used to be standard equipment in biological safety cabinets and laminar flow hoods 20 years ago. We even tested them to be sure they were producing enough energy at the proper wavelength to kill.

They don’t use them any more. Why? Because they started noticing that every piece of plastic, rubber, tygon, vinyl in the lab started to fall apart. The gasket material and adhesives in the hepa filters started to fail. Staff started to get eye problems and sunburn in Winter. Oh, and if there were any residual dirt, or any shadowed area the bacteria still survived. So you’re taking a huge risk to your health, destroying many of the items in your room, and not achieving what you think you are. There is a reason the lab community went away from it years ago.


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InvisibleMycolorado
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Re: Disinfect, sterilize, santize [Re: BeefSupremeJr] * 6
    #28515135 - 10/23/23 09:46 AM (3 months, 4 days ago)



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InvisibleFidelusS
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Re: Disinfect, sterilize, santize [Re: RoscoeReturns]
    #28515137 - 10/23/23 09:50 AM (3 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

RoscoeReturns said:
UVC works. It just doesn’t work well, and the negatives add up quick.

Because they started noticing that every piece of plastic, rubber, tygon, vinyl in the lab started to fall apart. The gasket material and adhesives in the hepa filters started to fail. Staff started to get eye problems and sunburn in Winter. Oh, and if there were any residual dirt, or any shadowed area the bacteria still survived. So you’re taking a huge risk to your health, destroying many of the items in your room, and not achieving what you think you are. There is a reason the lab community went away from it years ago.




BOOM!  Now that’s the kind of info that gets my attention.  Just that saying that they’ve been discontinued is one thing, the WHY is another.  And though I’m never in the room when the light is one, I sure don’t want to destroy all the other stuff in there.  THANK YOU!


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Disinfect, sterilize, santize [Re: Fidelus] * 3
    #28515148 - 10/23/23 10:15 AM (3 months, 4 days ago)

I feel like attacked :rofl:

If only my post's contained more information :lol:


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