Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | Next >
Offlinetree frog
eats bugs


Registered: 09/14/23
Posts: 442
Loc: lives in trees
Last seen: 3 hours, 23 minutes
Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #28561199 - 11/29/23 07:03 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Blue Cthulhu said:
^You had me up until the last sentence, which I cannot make heads nor tails of. Can I choose to slice or would that be a meta-slice of choice?




You can, kinda.

Someone up thread used the water metaphor.  You can kinda direct the flow of the water through skillful application of effort (practice).  And in applying these skillful means, start to undue the habit (karma).

Imagine being such a bad chain smoker that you're literally always smoking.  And because you're always smoking, you don't notice you're doing it.

Choosing not to slice is like trying to quit that habit.  You've just become aware that it can be done.  Now you have to figure out how to get a willful animal to train its own mind how to stop the habit.

Thankfully, a dude figured it out about 2500 years ago so there's some really good practices for doing it around today thanks to the efforts of about 42 generations of people.

edit:  Oh, and in this scenerio, almost everyone you know is also an ignorant chain smoker.


--------------------
Listen to the silence behind the engines' noise.  Jesus, Sweets, listen.  Hear it?  It's a love song.
For whom?
You are loved.
~ David Foster Wallace, Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way


Edited by tree frog (11/29/23 07:10 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,526
Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #28561209 - 11/29/23 07:08 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Blue Cthulhu said:
^You had me up until the last sentence, which I cannot make heads nor tails of. Can I choose to slice or would that be a meta-slice of choice?



not really,
you have developed a habit of presenting sliced scenarios to watch the way people navigate through the halves, and you call their navigation choosing, and the sliced parts that they touch are called choices, at least in this kind of scenario.

you did not choose to slice, but you have come to it in following the footsteps of familiar respected people.

they came up with it by the same honest means, as well.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,459
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 2 hours, 48 minutes
Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: tree frog]
    #28561221 - 11/29/23 07:13 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

You made a choice to slice something in half.

Of the two, you made a choice to "pick" one. You had two options after the slice, and one after you selected between the two. If you didn't slice, there was only one option to choose, provided you would choose it to begin with.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (11/29/23 07:16 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,526
Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28561234 - 11/29/23 07:20 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

only if you look for it that way, and if you do, would you actually be able to describe to me what is going on in the act of choosing?

I do not see any mechanism or process for choosing in the mind, only for reflexive navigation.
however if you see something attractive in compelling ways, you may end up reflexively navigating towards that attraction, even if it involves planning and work.

sometimes the work is arranged as a series of choices and you navigate through that as well.

we do not choose to navigate, it also is a reflex.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetree frog
eats bugs


Registered: 09/14/23
Posts: 442
Loc: lives in trees
Last seen: 3 hours, 23 minutes
Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28561247 - 11/29/23 07:27 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

I think if you take the analogy far enough you find what Zen calls choiceless awareness.  Choice itself is sort of an illusion that arises from slicing reality up into smaller pieces.

The first cut is self/other as I understand it.  The first two boxes are me/not me.  Mine and not mine.

And I think it's as much a habit of biology as it is of social conditioning.  We're not the only territorial animals on this planet.

But yeah, to piggyback off redgreenvines here some, the choice isn't to start untying the knot.  It takes energy to constantly be attacking reality with a mental knife and I think people just get tired of it and will take a way out if it's presented.  Navigate away from suffering, and towards peace.


--------------------
Listen to the silence behind the engines' noise.  Jesus, Sweets, listen.  Hear it?  It's a love song.
For whom?
You are loved.
~ David Foster Wallace, Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way


Edited by tree frog (11/29/23 07:31 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlue Cthulhu
Undefined
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/27/19
Posts: 494
Loc: With the loons
Last seen: 2 hours, 51 minutes
Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28561254 - 11/29/23 07:31 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

I see. So "choice" is a framework for organizing perception of the flow of events, according to the slicing metaphor.

But... to slice or not to slice, that is the question.


--------------------
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet." :aliendance:
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,459
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 2 hours, 48 minutes
Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28561280 - 11/29/23 07:42 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

Subjectively, in my own mind, I can explain that. I guess that perception itself makes it a reality for me.

I drove to the store, but first I had to fix my truck. (Why? For subsistence) I am able to make that choice, because I have the ability for such.

If you feel that is simply reflex navigation, much respect, but I don't think of it that way. I could have chosen not to navigate by sitting on my ass(which, I assume you would also consider a reflex, too).

The outcomes are completely different.... in motion to get something, or idle on my ass. Call it a decision or free will, but those outcomes were dependant on my choices. If there is no choice, there is no responsibility whatsoever. In this case going hungry.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (11/29/23 07:43 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,526
Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28561314 - 11/29/23 08:06 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

you can fool around with it during story telling, but in real life, if your truck breaks you try and fix it, you do not choose to try and fix it.

you could have a mental breakdown and join the truck at the road side or just walk away, but these also are not choices, they are paths taken, not forks in a path, they are just the way you feel you have to go.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,459
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 2 hours, 48 minutes
Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28561338 - 11/29/23 08:24 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

But my 5.4 trition engine did break down and I replaced the belt tensioner. I really did not feel like fixing it in 19 degree weather, but I did.

There are alot of feelings I feel that I do/ do not action on. I don't understand why feeling something precludes it from a choice or not a choice. So if I felt nothing/had no feeling, there would be forks in the road? I think feelings are apart of the choice process, but they don't usurp it completely or nullify that it is a choice.

Do you think people should be held to account for their feelings/ what they feel they should do?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (11/29/23 08:25 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleKiwi89
Stranger
Registered: 06/16/20
Posts: 648
Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #28561405 - 11/29/23 09:20 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

The discussion of free will can be coloured by the background that you are viewing it from, philosophy, neuroscience or cognitive science ect... SirTripAlot has a valid point here though, the law most definitely takes the view that we have free will.

I have to agree with others, I feel choices are possible. They are a complex algorithmic calculation dependent on chemical composition of the individual. At this point in time science can not prove that we do not have free will, so humanity still has hope.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinewhat-ok
friend
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 42
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: Kiwi89]
    #28561431 - 11/29/23 09:47 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

Typically I feel that everything in my life is a culmination of choices. The way I’m understanding it, choice could be replaced with fork. It all seems a formality. It feels like the only time I haven’t made a choice was my being born into this existence in the first place. Well maybe I just need to go deeper to remember? Sounds like I am rather stuck in my separateness (=


--------------------
As we grow in our consciousness, there will be more compassion and more love, and then the barriers between people, between religions, between nations will begin to fall. Yes, we have to beat down the separateness.

Ram Dass


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,526
Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28561760 - 11/30/23 07:28 AM (1 month, 27 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
But my 5.4 trition engine did break down and I replaced the belt tensioner. I really did not feel like fixing it in 19 degree weather, but I did.

There are alot of feelings I feel that I do/ do not action on. I don't understand why feeling something precludes it from a choice or not a choice. So if I felt nothing/had no feeling, there would be forks in the road? I think feelings are apart of the choice process, but they don't usurp it completely or nullify that it is a choice.

Do you think people should be held to account for their feelings/ what they feel they should do?



yes people should be held responsible for their actions, (which are perceptive extensions of thoughts just like speech is.)
Some of us naturally learn to care about what we are doing, and about other people, the rest of us have to note that it is important and learn to cultivate the feelings that produce "right action".

I think that you have the inner dialog (which is a sequence of reflex perceptions) confused with the idea of a sequence of choices.

This choice based concept has been promoted by the converged science of cybernetics in the 1950's and it is dragging us down to a medieval view of psychology.

memory is not data, and life is not choices. both memory and life are ongoing natural processes that do not resolve into binaries, although situations may be binary, and chemical reactions are often binary, our cognitive life is more gestalt, all going together, like feelings.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,459
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 2 hours, 48 minutes
Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28561881 - 11/30/23 09:12 AM (1 month, 27 days ago)

Do you have issue with the nomenclature of the word "choice"?

If one were to substitute that with "reflex perception", ....whether we actually make choices or simply react/ reflex to the situation, the net result is the same. You stated you agree that people should be held to account for their feelings/ reflex/ (what I call choices). I agree as well, and that what's occuring if you get caught robbing a bank in today's society.

-But- behind the scenes, it seems like it can be used as a huge scapegoat of making truly terrible crazy decisions simply as "reflexive"....it would mitigate any situation down to near blameless. It also dissolves intent to an almost pitiful existence.... it's a frightful proposition given man's proclivity for doing aweful things. I wholeheartedly agree reflex is a part of this, but it's not there exclusively and the sole factor for the choices I believe exist.

If that's just my inner dialog shining through, I am a less flawed person then I would be compared to not believing the above.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (11/30/23 12:01 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,526
Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #28562195 - 11/30/23 01:51 PM (1 month, 27 days ago)

well, you have to cultivate your perceptions in order to lay down a framework for reliable reflexes.

this becomes more clear in the reflex of self defense.
when a death occurs due to self defense reflexes, then the story about it makes it clear that there was no advance warning, and the reflex kicked in, and the person who was killed was attacking a person who could reflexively defend themselves.

however when a person kills another having mulled over it for a time, and with clear motivation in the story, then that person is guilty of a crime.

at neither point was the killer doing anything other than reflexive behavior, but the person who plotted a murder should have avoided that kind of activity, and is responsible for navigating towards it.

responsible for liking the direction that leads to violence, and likely to be attracted to violence again, so this person could use some work. maybe jail time, or maybe intensive deprogramming or reorientation to non-violent entertainments.

using the word choice in any of this makes no sense to me.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNorthernerM
splelling chceker
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/29/12
Posts: 14,136
Loc: FNQ
Last seen: 53 minutes, 11 seconds
Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28562276 - 11/30/23 02:46 PM (1 month, 27 days ago)

The word choice can mean options or actions. Because the meanings are so close to each other in context but really don't mean the same thing it can lead to a lot of dissonance.

By using choice as the options and decisions as the action (rather than choice again) much confusion can be avoided. This is how this topic is traditionally approached.


--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleKiwi89
Stranger
Registered: 06/16/20
Posts: 648
Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: Northerner]
    #28562371 - 11/30/23 04:13 PM (1 month, 27 days ago)

So if my choices are A or B, then the action of selecting a letter is my decision.

Some people think that all decisions are predetermined, it does not matter that I think I have a choice of either A or B, it was always going to be.

Which is wild to think about when standing on a cliff, the choice to walk away of jump off is predetermined?!


Edit: should I have said the decision to walk away.


Edited by Kiwi89 (11/30/23 04:22 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist
Male Unread Journal User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/01/23
Posts: 7,170
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 9 seconds
Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: Kiwi89]
    #28562373 - 11/30/23 04:14 PM (1 month, 27 days ago)

No, it’s not. You can decide not to jump off that cliff or you can decide to jump off that cliff. Because you have volition over your decisions.:shrug:

Trying to say that there are no decisions being made by someone is not a winnable argument.

There may be motivations that drive us to our decisions. But they are ours to make.


--------------------

Wanna Play? I offer free
Dream Interpretation, Therapy &
GC’s Perfect Day Ayahuasca Recipe
Shroomery Manual? Click here.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleKiwi89
Stranger
Registered: 06/16/20
Posts: 648
Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 1
    #28562374 - 11/30/23 04:17 PM (1 month, 27 days ago)

Depends do you believe in determinism? I do not.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist
Male Unread Journal User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/01/23
Posts: 7,170
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 9 seconds
Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: Kiwi89]
    #28562375 - 11/30/23 04:17 PM (1 month, 27 days ago)

I also do not.


--------------------

Wanna Play? I offer free
Dream Interpretation, Therapy &
GC’s Perfect Day Ayahuasca Recipe
Shroomery Manual? Click here.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,526
Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28562493 - 11/30/23 05:28 PM (1 month, 27 days ago)

decision and choice are the same thing.
we have preferences, and they can be quite complex,
but choosing is really not what we do,
most of life is not either this or that, or multiple choice, although it is sold to us that way: pick your options.
well, I like a, f, n, & z.
If I have to commit in order to move to the next room, then I may or may not commit beyond admitting that I like a, f, n & z - depending on my budget,
on the other hand, if I came here to shop then I already know I need some things, and I get what I remember I need.
If there are 3 things to choose from I go through the process of how I feel about each.
picking fruit is the same, how do I feel about that bruised apple with great size and color, over the scrawny apples that are shiny and light.
I am present with my feelings that have already pointed the way.
there is no specific moment of choosing, while there is a moment when the product falls into the basket, but that is not the choice I made it is the product falling in the basket.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | Next >

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Am I the only one who does not encounter entities or alien environments on DMT? WWorker 1,769 18 12/31/07 03:21 PM
by WWorker
* A New Theory for the DMT Entities?
( 1 2 3 4 ... 18 19 )
LogicaL ChaosM 2,399 360 01/04/24 10:22 PM
by Northerner
* how much shrooms do u have to take to see entities
( 1 2 3 all )
gremlin 31,285 54 01/14/17 08:42 PM
by Bill_Oreilly
* encountered my first "shroom entity" valour 4,006 17 03/16/04 09:46 PM
by Anonymous
* Underworld Entities!
( 1 2 all )
Journey 5,580 23 05/03/03 08:01 AM
by KOPELANDIAA
* Malevolent entities on Salvia
( 1 2 all )
truffleupagus 4,807 21 05/09/08 11:33 PM
by LeperFace
* Reality of entities ReoSpeedwagon153 1,558 11 06/25/07 11:42 PM
by Silversoul
* Do your religious/spiritual beliefs (or lack thereof) determine what entities you meet (if any)? Quake3 1,756 11 12/09/07 07:54 PM
by yageman

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: psilocybinjunkie, Rose, mushboy, LogicaL Chaos, Northerner, bodhisatta
4,873 topic views. 2 members, 57 guests and 13 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.028 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 15 queries.