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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28559150 - 11/28/23 07:08 AM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Thoughts emanate from the brain which is part of your body. You thoughts are often automatic, not voluntary. You don't choose your thoughts any more than you choose to have your arm. And the essence of you is not the body. You can, however choose to modify your thoughts just as you choose to move your arm.

“The name given to the body is not your name. What are you beyond the body and its name? For a moment, see that you are without the body and its name.’ This is termed ‘waiting at the doorstep of God for a moment’. Say what you are without considering the body and its name. Look at yourself without the body and its name. Understand this point and you understand everything.”
― Nisargadatta Maharaj, I Am Not the Body: Discovering the Truth Beyond Bondage


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Offlinetree frog
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28559155 - 11/28/23 07:14 AM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Yeah, for sure.  The meaning is in the moment (context) and the sense of connection that moment has to other moments (continuity).

But I'm not sure any part of me is different.

Just parts bubbling up within the context of the environment.  Whichever feels most strongly about the context gets the 'sense of agency'.  Sometimes that's my anger.  Sometimes it's my wise loving heart reminding me how good my girlfriend is to me and encouraging me to let go of my injured pride.

Anyway, sometimes I like to split the ego on purpose to facilitate inner dialogue.  More often I split the ego on accident and end up at war with myself.  And mostly, what entities have taught me, is that the sense of self is a lot more fluid then our cultural norms have us imagine.


--------------------
Listen to the silence behind the engines' noise.  Jesus, Sweets, listen.  Hear it?  It's a love song.
For whom?
You are loved.
~ David Foster Wallace, Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way


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Offlinetree frog
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: Neurotech]
    #28559162 - 11/28/23 07:24 AM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Neurotech said:
Thoughts emanate from the brain which is part of your body. You thoughts are often automatic, not voluntary. You don't choose your thoughts any more than you choose to have your arm. And the essence of you is not the body. You can, however choose to modify your thoughts just as you choose to move your arm.




Agree with this mostly.

Just not sure there's an 'essence' depending on what you mean by it.  It sounds like you imagine there's a part of you that owns the thoughts and the arm and the body.  Or whose 'job' is to witness and modify those things.  But this is what natural language sounds like unfortunately so I may be misunderstanding.

Also, sorry for the thread derail OP.  I can stop with alternate perspectives if I'm killing the vibe.


--------------------
Listen to the silence behind the engines' noise.  Jesus, Sweets, listen.  Hear it?  It's a love song.
For whom?
You are loved.
~ David Foster Wallace, Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way


Edited by tree frog (11/28/23 07:36 AM)


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Offlinewhat-ok
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: tree frog]
    #28559172 - 11/28/23 07:38 AM (1 month, 29 days ago)

I’ve had encounters with a voice on multiple occasions “cubes” the voice was in a sort of fake Spanish sing song type rhythm with breaks and crescendos and accents. It was also represented visually behind closed eyes with a cascade of symbols flowing down like a waterfall. These symbols were connecting into chains of sentence like structures, creating pathways as they moved across the visual field. The voice went on while “my” internal dialogue was understanding it had some importance yet not knowing what the voice was saying. Was the voice mine? While this discourse was happening, I perceived it was coming from something very other/teacher and not “me”


--------------------
As we grow in our consciousness, there will be more compassion and more love, and then the barriers between people, between religions, between nations will begin to fall. Yes, we have to beat down the separateness.

Ram Dass


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: what-ok]
    #28559282 - 11/28/23 10:09 AM (1 month, 29 days ago)

How do you choose those?
I think you are not separate from the reflex mechanism

Choice is imaginary


--------------------
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InvisibleKiwi89
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28559375 - 11/28/23 11:40 AM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Choice is imaginary




Choice is a compound life experience equation. This may give a individual an illusion of 'reflex' or fait accompli.


Edited by Kiwi89 (11/28/23 11:41 AM)


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: Northerner]
    #28559381 - 11/28/23 11:51 AM (1 month, 29 days ago)

I had some experiences yesterday that I have never expereinced before.
I was woke up between 2-3am. I am unsure the time as I have not changed the time on one part of the clock. It shows the time in two places shines on the ceiling and the face. One is incorrect. I am uncertain... doesn't really matter.
I woke up because there was a bright light.
I thought the light got turned on. It didn't. I don't know the source of the light. It was bright.
Saw it two more times later that day.


--------------------
“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: Kiwi89]
    #28559432 - 11/28/23 12:45 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Kiwi89 said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Choice is imaginary




Choice is a compound life experience equation. This may give a individual an illusion of 'reflex' or fait accompli.




you may want to take this up offline or in a philosophy and psychology thread or not, but I know of nobody who can actually articulate when or how they chose anything, so I really think that choosing is a fallacious concept, while navigating through a field of signs and signals, some familiar and others not so familiar, is actually what is going on, at all times, in the mind.


--------------------
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InvisibleKiwi89
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28559475 - 11/28/23 01:29 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I know of nobody who can actually articulate when or how they chose anything




When I was younger I saw a friend who in his excitement ran across the road without looking, he was hit by a car, he was hit with such force that his shoes were left where the impact occurred. This experience has molded my choices when I cross roads, I am often more cautious than other people I know. I view the speed and direction of vehicles and make a decision based on how safe I feel to cross a road.

Choice is a long line of life experience and in the moment interpretation of the signs and signals, data input, that determines my choice. 

You do make a valid point though, being able to describe an abstract formula of such complexity is beyond me. It would be a formula that describes a life and it's interactions with other lives taking into account the chemical composition of the target at a point in time. Nice to think about but way beyond me.


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Offlinetree frog
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: Kiwi89] * 2
    #28559485 - 11/28/23 01:41 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

I think you both are saying the same thing from different angles, mostly.

From the perspective of the moment, it's nearly impossible to tell where our responses come from.  Still we can say people's choices are conditioned by their experiences.

And now I'm going to choose to have a smoke, because I was a dumbass and started again over the summer.  Am I making this choice now, or just being carried along by old karma?


--------------------
Listen to the silence behind the engines' noise.  Jesus, Sweets, listen.  Hear it?  It's a love song.
For whom?
You are loved.
~ David Foster Wallace, Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way


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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28559492 - 11/28/23 01:46 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

Kiwi89 said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Choice is imaginary




Choice is a compound life experience equation. This may give a individual an illusion of 'reflex' or fait accompli.




so I really think that choosing is a fallacious concept, while navigating through a field of signs and signals, some familiar and others not so familiar, is actually what is going on, at all times, in the mind.




Sounds a bit like a deinition or description of choice rather a negation. How do you define "choice"?


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: Kiwi89] * 1
    #28559533 - 11/28/23 02:29 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Studies have concluded that we have about 7 thoughts or "conceptual entities" a second, and there's multiple synaptic systems feeding these entities. Being able to identify one of these entities (thoughts) as a decision making point should be impossible, it's far too complicated and fast. But we understand that lots of things we can't see or pinpoint exist. What we can't control is instinctive base emotions, excitement, anger, lust, fear, etc. though we can control how we react to them, how we respond to that stimuli. By controlling the reaction we can control the chain of emotions and choices that we are making consistently. It's like controlling water.

"7 conceptual entities" is a curious choice of words for researchers. Like there's seven seperate threads of thought happening simultaneously in our minds, that could maybe explain how our minds can fracture and seemingly alive entities can exist in our psyche whilst the other entities observe it and give feedback.


--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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InvisibleKiwi89
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: Northerner]
    #28559600 - 11/28/23 03:25 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
"7 conceptual entities" is a curious choice of words for researchers.  Like there's seven seperate threads of thought happening simultaneously in our minds, that could maybe explain how our minds can fracture and seemingly alive entities can exist in our psyche whilst the other entities observe it and give feedback.




I think it is often hard to comprehend the meaning of a word in research papers without being fluent in the topic domain. Sometimes words can seem out of place or I interpret it's meaning to another form. I think this is extremely interesting though. 


I would assume everyone has to deal with intrusive thoughts at times in their lives. These can often seem so out of character that they seem to be from somewhere else. I think it is easy to see that our own thoughts can be surprising and out of place to ourselves sometimes. To make sense of these new 'voices' it is easy for our imagination to prescribe an other to explain where the thought has come from.

I see nothing unusual when people see or hear entities on drugs, though I do think it is our own mind communicating in ways that we are not accustomed to.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: Northerner]
    #28559680 - 11/28/23 04:06 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
Studies have concluded that we have about 7 thoughts or "conceptual entities" a second, and there's multiple synaptic systems feeding these entities. Being able to identify one of these entities (thoughts) as a decision making point should be impossible, it's far too complicated and fast. But we understand that lots of things we can't see or pinpoint exist. What we can't control is instinctive base emotions, excitement, anger, lust, fear, etc. though we can control how we react to them, how we respond to that stimuli. By controlling the reaction we can control the chain of emotions and choices that we are making consistently. It's like controlling water.

"7 conceptual entities" is a curious choice of words for researchers. Like there's seven seperate threads of thought happening simultaneously in our minds, that could maybe explain how our minds can fracture and seemingly alive entities can exist in our psyche whilst the other entities observe it and give feedback.



they are talking about the alpha or theta wave event,
mental contents change at this rate:
I nominally call it 10 times per second or 10 hz,
but some measurements are 7hz (perhaps it is slower during REM sleep than while awake, or maybe it is always 6hz, but the interference makes it seem higher especially while awake)

anything between 6 hz and 12 hz works for me as the rate of signals flowing to the cortex (and back) from the thalamus during waking consciousness and REM dreams.

the entities in this case are neural activation configurations.
you could think of them as mandalas
they encompass all sensory and memory based mental activation.


--------------------
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Offlinewhat-ok
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28559783 - 11/28/23 05:22 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

OK OK so when I’m in contact with the other/entity/what have ya in these deep states, I’m just in contact with parts of myself that lay in wait until I perturb the right dongles in my dingle?


--------------------
As we grow in our consciousness, there will be more compassion and more love, and then the barriers between people, between religions, between nations will begin to fall. Yes, we have to beat down the separateness.

Ram Dass


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: what-ok]
    #28559848 - 11/28/23 06:08 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Quote:

what-ok said:
OK OK so when I’m in contact with the other/entity/what have ya in these deep states, I’m just in contact with parts of myself that lay in wait until I perturb the right dongles in my dingle?



I would not put it that way.
A memory is like an impression. Impressions do not lay in wait.
However if something like that impression comes up in the future, then the impressions can emerge intact, along with a series of subsequent reactions,
including everything you know and have learned to say and do, which applies in this circumstance.

In any here and now context, some sensations and lingering mental content will be similar to several memories of other here and now occurrences (familiar you could say), over a series of subsequent  mind moments (1/10th of a second) some similar feelings and reactions emerge which are your thoughts and speech and action - your familiars you could say.

Some of that can linger for a while - especially if you are really stoned.
Several entities may appear and linger, and you may on behalf of each familiar provide the next gesture or thought that they represent, all from the same memory and perception process, without identifying with any of them.


--------------------
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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: what-ok] * 1
    #28559935 - 11/28/23 07:04 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Quote:

what-ok said:
OK OK so when I’m in contact with the other/entity/what have ya in these deep states, I’m just in contact with parts of myself that lay in wait until I perturb the right dongles in my dingle?



That's pretty much what I reckon it is. Basically a splintering of consciousness.

Many theories on it, but that's my take.


--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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Offlinewhat-ok
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: Northerner]
    #28560007 - 11/28/23 07:56 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

I always set intention to these experiences and the intention is usually one of humility and surrender. I ask whatever I’m working with to show, to teach. I’m completely open to it.

For me, contact with the entity/other also comes with a huge wave of emotion. Emotions best described as having this feeling of finally returning home or back to a place you are familiar with or had forgotten. Usually the experience has a deep hit of the feminine, motherly, warm, safe. Are these just fantastic memories/dreams? Why am I experiencing this feeling of homecoming from highly colored crawling geometric landscapes that seem so completely alien to my ideas of  home?


--------------------
As we grow in our consciousness, there will be more compassion and more love, and then the barriers between people, between religions, between nations will begin to fall. Yes, we have to beat down the separateness.

Ram Dass


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Offlinetree frog
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: what-ok]
    #28560123 - 11/28/23 09:18 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

That post is a lot to unpack.

First of all, the capacity for compassion is in all of us.  Most of us have a lot of trouble being compassionate to ourselves once we become adults.  Our self talk tends to get worse as we age I'm saying.  I.e. children don't believe they're bad unless that idea is put in them.  That's the coming home feeling.  Compassion is in your nature.  Even self compassion and even if that self compassion comes from a guide/entity.  It feels like home because it is home.  Shame is taught.

As far as fractals and why you find that here.  Psychedelics fuck with our concepts.  We create boundaries around everything because our sense impressions leave us with the idea that things are mostly solid and independent.  Mostly though, what we experience, is our mind kinda holding the frame.

We don't process each new piece of sense data on a conscious level.  We only process novel sense data on this level.  And we kinda hold the rest of the frame.  Drop a psychedelic, and that illusion of permanence slips away and it becomes fairly obvious what the brain is doing.  It's this same effect that loosens our grip on our ego as well.  The 'permanent' sense of self.  And loosening that grip is what allows entity contact.

ime/imo


--------------------
Listen to the silence behind the engines' noise.  Jesus, Sweets, listen.  Hear it?  It's a love song.
For whom?
You are loved.
~ David Foster Wallace, Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way


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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: what-ok] * 1
    #28560134 - 11/28/23 09:33 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

On the other hand.
Today I was laying in the bathtub. With my eyes closed. Tripping on some ayahuasca and a beautiful, feminine spirit kind of just showed up. She took me places. She showed me things. I got to see art that literally brought me to tears. Then she left. The energy of her was gone. I was sad that she left. But I was not unhappy with what I was shown.
I like to think of that as being an external thing.
But some people like to rationalize that is just being us in the throes of our compounds.
I think it’s debatable.
But not everyone has had a real spiritual experience before.


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