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tree frog
eats bugs


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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: CHUCK.HNTR]
#28570869 - 12/06/23 01:32 AM (1 month, 21 days ago) |
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My bad, it was more of a koan then a riddle. But no, not nothing.
Mind can't be removed from seeing. And mind is alive.
Appreciate you humoring me. Have some
-------------------- Listen to the silence behind the engines' noise. Jesus, Sweets, listen. Hear it? It's a love song. For whom? You are loved. ~ David Foster Wallace, Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way
Edited by tree frog (12/06/23 03:21 AM)
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Heroic Dosage
Psychonaut Storyteller



Registered: 11/30/23
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: tree frog] 1
#28570877 - 12/06/23 02:00 AM (1 month, 21 days ago) |
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I interact with the same entity every time I do mushrooms (3g or more).
She's (and it's definitely a she) become a dear friend of mine now and tends to present herself as a cephalopod.
I've learned a lot from her!
I intend to do a write-up in the near future explaining my theories as to what these entities actually are.
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tree frog
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: Heroic Dosage]
#28570885 - 12/06/23 02:13 AM (1 month, 21 days ago) |
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What kind of cephalopod does she manifest as?
-------------------- Listen to the silence behind the engines' noise. Jesus, Sweets, listen. Hear it? It's a love song. For whom? You are loved. ~ David Foster Wallace, Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: tree frog] 1
#28570900 - 12/06/23 03:18 AM (1 month, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
tree frog said: Because we don't see objects. We see our perception of objects. So the mind can't be seperated from our experiences. From what we actually, see.
And the mind, is alive.
The DMT elves, making up reality? Our own mind, building our experience of creation right before our eyes.
The mind pulls this magic trick, like a stage magician. It creates an image of reality, an illusion. And then it carefully removes itself form the picture.
Obviously other people have realized this. Including a lot of Western traditions of philosophy and modern cogsci (I'm less familiar with those wikipedia links though). Still, it was nice to get a deeper than intellectual understanding of it thanks to DMT and Harmalas. To watch the magic show happen and know that it was happening and what was happening.
Also, thanks for humoring me Actually five are coming.
edit: And yeah, it was more of a koan then a riddle (riddles have clever answers I suppose.) I was just curious if anyone understood what I was getting at without me pointing it out.
edit2: And I've been experimenting off and on with Ayahuasca (and vaped DMT) for about ten years. Studying and practicing Buddhism for over five. So the insight didn't come all at once. I had to pick at it and poke it until it unraveled in the light of reason. Prior to that I thought maybe I really am communing with machine elves who somehow know me better than I know myself. The mind is a very good magician. Still fools me 99.99% of the time into taking my perceptions seriously.
I can't go back though. I still do DMT but it's for internal work mostly. Trauma processing. Similar to how I use mushrooms. It's lost that bit of magic. I no longer commune with machine elves but deeper parts of myself. But, I guess that was kinda what I wanted to point out. That strange quality of everything being alive on DMT, not just moving but actually living, is because it really is alive. It's really a mind that we're looking at. The same mind we see everyday. Just under a much different lens that makes the illusion harder to maintain.
I think taking an absolutist approach, as to the validity of the metaphysical realm hyperspace, is either way (definitely real or definitely not) to fall into the same pointless trap.
The only thing I know for sure -and perhaps the only thing that matters to me- is that it is real while I am there. Just as I think it is pointless to dismiss this reality while I am here!
I can't know why I know, now I am here, but I can know why I know when I am there, and so to dismiss hyperspace -while straight- seems as flawed an approach to me, as dismissing our consensual reality while in hyperspace (which I constantly do btw).
But I wonder if this debate is not essentially a rationalist vs mysticist one? Debating the existence of God, with none of us possibly being able to know for sure either way, but taking a certain comfort in being free from the existential doubt and uncertainty from having at least taken a position (I fall more into the yes camp btw!)?
One side fearing/resisting the reality of hyperspace (which lets be fair makes a horrifying mockery of consensual reality and would shake a God fearing conservative Christian to his very core) and the other side fearing and resisting simple nothingness?
Personally I could believe hyperspace was illusionary up to a point (or dose).
The difficulties in dismissing the experience as mere hallucination or subconscious-manifestation, for myself, comes from one certain experience I had in which I saw the mechanical machines/aliens doing things so utterly beyond my human experience (and therefore human/subconscious reference points) and so faaaar beyond my sober and sane ability (although my mind was sober) to even comprehend -let alone express- that I feel it would be completely disingenuous of me to dismiss them now while sober. The sheer technological complexity of what they were showing me (complexity that seemed purposefully designed to validate their existence) is just too far beyond my comprehension and ability to understand or explain away.
I believe the reason that DMT (and Salvia) can be so terrifying is not because it rips us out of consensual reality for a while, but because it is a red pill experience (in the matrix/movie sense not a political sense).
Hang on! Yeah I wanted a wild ride with magical elves and aliens but I didn't expect/want it to actually be fricking real!
No longer fun and games, or simply a drug experience to be marveled at objectively/intellectually, oh no! Suddenly what you have stumbled into is the horrifying truth (real or not)!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
Edited by wolf8312 (12/06/23 09:28 AM)
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tree frog
eats bugs


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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: wolf8312]
#28570903 - 12/06/23 03:22 AM (1 month, 21 days ago) |
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I edited and simplified that post you quoted.
I'm tired and will check out your post but won't be able to read it thoroughly or respond tonight.
edit:
The DMT elves I've encountered again and again on DMT and Ayahuasca, in my experience, were an encounter with emptiness itself. The void that takes all forms.
I apologize if I came off ontological. My point was that we can't separate ourselves from our sense impressions. Rather on DMT or otherwise.
-------------------- Listen to the silence behind the engines' noise. Jesus, Sweets, listen. Hear it? It's a love song. For whom? You are loved. ~ David Foster Wallace, Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way
Edited by tree frog (12/06/23 03:43 AM)
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




Registered: 08/01/23
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: wolf8312]
#28570904 - 12/06/23 03:27 AM (1 month, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
wolf8312 said: The difficulties in dismissing the experience as mere hallucination or subconscious-manifestation, for myself, comes from one certain experience I had in which I saw the mechanical machines/aliens doing things so utterly beyond my human experience (and therefore human/subconscious reference points) and so faaaar beyond my sober and sane ability (although my mind was sober) to even comprehend -let alone express- that I feel it would be completely disingenuous of me to dismiss them now while sober. The sheer technological complexity of what they were showing me (complexity that seem purposefully designed to validate their existence) is just too far beyond my comprehension and ability to understand or explain away.
Love this comment. As someone who saw “too much” I can quite confidently say that I did feel a lot like this tree frog before hand. Having had such an experience. I find the way he speaks with such certainty in this thread. To be incredibly dismissive, if not almost a philosophical assault on other peoples experiences.
I don’t have a negative opinion of it. But it just feels like you’re trying to speak for other people. Almost trying to answer a question they aren’t asking.
Edited by GenesisCorrupted (12/06/23 03:34 AM)
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: tree frog]
#28570906 - 12/06/23 03:34 AM (1 month, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
tree frog said: I edited and simplified that post you quoted.
I'm tired and will check out your post but won't be able to read it thoroughly or respond tonight.
Don't worry mate I understand.
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: wolf8312] 1
#28570907 - 12/06/23 03:42 AM (1 month, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said:
Quote:
wolf8312 said: The difficulties in dismissing the experience as mere hallucination or subconscious-manifestation, for myself, comes from one certain experience I had in which I saw the mechanical machines/aliens doing things so utterly beyond my human experience (and therefore human/subconscious reference points) and so faaaar beyond my sober and sane ability (although my mind was sober) to even comprehend -let alone express- that I feel it would be completely disingenuous of me to dismiss them now while sober. The sheer technological complexity of what they were showing me (complexity that seem purposefully designed to validate their existence) is just too far beyond my comprehension and ability to understand or explain away.
Love this comment. As someone who saw “too much” I can quite confidently say that I did feel a lot like this tree frog before hand. Having had such an experience. I find the way he speaks with such certainty in this thread. To be incredibly dismissive, if not almost a philosophical assault on other peoples experiences.
I don’t have a negative opinion of it. But it just feels like you’re trying to speak for other people. Almost trying to answer a question they aren’t asking.
I sometimes feel like what the entities are showing me is: We are extant and you know this now instinctively don't you?
But you cannot take us back with you through customs and we will evaporate if you try! The only way to know is to be here with us!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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tree frog
eats bugs


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I apologize for being dismissive. I was trying to speak from my own experience and do have a habit of building my ego on what I think I know.
I've edited both of my posts above in an attempt to clarify and be more open to other people's view points.
-------------------- Listen to the silence behind the engines' noise. Jesus, Sweets, listen. Hear it? It's a love song. For whom? You are loved. ~ David Foster Wallace, Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




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Loc: PNW
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: tree frog] 1
#28570912 - 12/06/23 03:52 AM (1 month, 21 days ago) |
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Like I said, I’m not offended.
I think you just need to have a huge breakthrough.

Something so earth shattering you’ll be humbled like I was.
I just don’t think people are always ready for it. But it’s fine. Have a good night tree frog
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: tree frog] 1
#28570915 - 12/06/23 03:56 AM (1 month, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
tree frog said: I edited and simplified that post you quoted.
I'm tired and will check out your post but won't be able to read it thoroughly or respond tonight.
edit:
The DMT elves I've encountered again and again on DMT and Ayahuasca, in my experience, were an encounter with emptiness itself. The void that takes all forms.
I apologize if I came off ontological. My point was that we can't separate ourselves from our sense impressions. Rather on DMT or otherwise.
No need. I don't want you to think I was being critical, or was offended. I enjoyed reading your post(s) and only responded because your post was thought-provoking and interesting, not because I wanted to shoot it/you down!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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tree frog
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Appreciate that wolf. I think I met you in discord today maybe? I will reread your post when I'm more awake and less defensive.
I can't sleep. Had an argument with my girlfriend and been up all night.
I've had one level 5 in three decades of eating psychedelics. A lot of level 4s.
But yeah, the level 5 was hard to rationalize. It was mushrooms not any form of DMT.
I guess I've been giving everyone my own rationalizations for my level four trips. The level 5 was to weird to even use words like entity.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28560443
I also have a lot of trauma so letting go with vaped DMT never worked for me (but I've had my thinking stop completely in nature for a good five minutes which was insightful). And I've been terrified to try a big dose of Ayahuasca again. Been persuing meditation and non-cube mushrooms.
edit: Thinking about it more, I think I have had level 5 vaped DMT trips. I think I just dismiss them because they're so weird and so short. But again, I don't find entities when I breakthrough. Concepts like self or other breakdown completely for me and there's memory of the experience but I'm not there in that sense I can say this is me, and this is someone or something else then me.
And wolf, I agree with what you're saying. Definitely real or not real isn't the way for me. I have been defensive tonight because of the home situation and I can see how Genesis finds me sometimes dismissive. It is a habit I have and I'm working on it. Shit, rereading this post I'm even dismissive towards myself.
-------------------- Listen to the silence behind the engines' noise. Jesus, Sweets, listen. Hear it? It's a love song. For whom? You are loved. ~ David Foster Wallace, Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way
Edited by tree frog (12/06/23 04:20 AM)
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: tree frog]
#28570930 - 12/06/23 04:30 AM (1 month, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
tree frog said: Appreciate that wolf. I think I met you in discord today maybe? I will reread your post when I'm more awake and less defensive.
I can't sleep. Had an argument with my girlfriend and been up all night.
I've had one level 5 in three decades of eating psychedelics. A lot of level 4s.
But yeah, the level 5 was hard to rationalize. It was mushrooms not any form of DMT.
I guess I've been giving everyone my own rationalizations for my level four trips. The level 5 was to weird to even use words like entity.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28560443
I also have a lot of trauma so letting go with vaped DMT never worked for me (but I've had my thinking stop completely in nature for a good five minutes which was insightful). And I've been terrified to try a big dose of Ayahuasca again. Been persuing meditation and non-cube mushrooms.
No wasn't me mate I'm not on discord! There are a lot of wolves about though!
Letting go with vaped DMT is no joke! I don't care who you are!
I think what helped me (certainly no expert with spice more of an Ana/Aya man) though was to prepare before hand. Breathing deeply and settling myself before I go in (a beer or two can also help!).
When it comes on strong it's usually very easy to tell early on if its going to be massive or a bit of a damp squib.
I can feel this colossal tingling energy/electricity coming toward me. What I find helps is to meet this energy head on in the same way you would a roller-coaster! Instead of saying "Oh fuck me no!" taking a more humorous "LETS FUCKING AVE IT THEN" attitude can help.
Of course just by typing this I am allowing ego to enter in which perversely almost guarantees this method will not work for me on my next experience! But I'm kinda expecting that anyway. It always fucks me just when I think I am getting the hang of it!
But sometimes it's just so fucking powerful and such a relentless psychedelic artillery barrage that I'm not even sure its possible to surrender to it!
Or at least I'm certainly no master of doing so, and make no mistake I fear it too bud!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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tree frog
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: wolf8312]
#28570931 - 12/06/23 04:38 AM (1 month, 21 days ago) |
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Yeah man, I'm kinda feeling like I'm being misunderstood in this thread a bit by Genesis in particular.
Genesis, in my personal judgement of my own experiences, I don't count it as a breakthrough if I can hold a conversation. With telepathic entities or otherwise. For me, there's no ego during a breakthrough experience. I've had lots of conversations with entities on sub-breakthrough doses. But, for me, and again, I'm only talking about my own scale and own internal judgements of my own experiences, if I can tell me from not me enough to converse, even through some sort of non-verbal means with entities that may or may not exist. It's not a breakthrough. And I've only had a handful of those.
I've encountered entities hundreds of times and yes I rationalize them and I apologize if I answer unasked questions. I also apologize for using we and you statements instead of I statements. It's a habit I am consciously working on.
I am trying to offer an alternate perspective for people because I don't just have one perspective on it and am still trying to understand better myself and I think alternate perspectives might help others have a deeper understanding of themselves.
Quote:
Love this comment. As someone who saw “too much” I can quite confidently say that I did feel a lot like this tree frog before hand. Having had such an experience. I find the way he speaks with such certainty in this thread. To be incredibly dismissive, if not almost a philosophical assault on other peoples experiences.
I've had a machine experience very similar to what wolf mentioned. Yeah, it was weird. I'd count mine as level 4. I've seen weirder if I'm understanding wolf's post because there's still the language of me and not me, i.e. ego, (no judgement wolf) in the post. And I felt your comment was quite dismissive of me lol. this tree frog don't get it he's not experienced enough (paraphrasing). It felt passive aggressive.
if there's a me and a not me. I don't count it as a breakthrough. Inside and outside. Not a breakthrough. Over here and over there. Not a breakthrough. Exists and does not exist? Nope. That one doesn't stick around either.
Just my own scale and language.
Anyway, trying to clarify. I know that probably came off harsh and I do know I have a habit of thinking I know everything. I've got an ego too. Even if I'm just this tree frog.
edit: nm the edit. I said enough. I don't need to take one last potshot.
-------------------- Listen to the silence behind the engines' noise. Jesus, Sweets, listen. Hear it? It's a love song. For whom? You are loved. ~ David Foster Wallace, Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way
Edited by tree frog (12/06/23 05:27 AM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,526
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: tree frog]
#28570938 - 12/06/23 04:55 AM (1 month, 21 days ago) |
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I reread the entire thread to try and understand wolf's problem and GC's support of that - All I can say is that this really has been a very interesting discussion, and may be a candidate for pinning in the forum.
Also treeFrog need not apologize, what is the point of apologizing for clear thinking anyway. We are not babies here, and we do seem to have internal family systems that we not only project as entities, but through which mask we seem to see each other.
Blind Ass's question https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28566563#28566563 deserves more space, however, I did not notice it earlier.
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Question to ponder:
How are entities which are perceived during certain psychedelic experiences fundamentally any different in their nature to those which are perceived while dreaming? ...
I am not sure they are, except the trigger in the dream is internal (no physical setting), and the triggers in tripping are set and setting.
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tree frog
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Registered: 09/14/23
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: redgreenvines]
#28570940 - 12/06/23 04:58 AM (1 month, 21 days ago) |
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I don't think wolf had a problem so much. I did edit some tired ass posts redgreenvines where I was using a lot of we and you statements. They might still be quoted above. Anyway that is dismissive because it assumes everyone is the same.
However it's a cultural habit at least in the US. So I'm swimming in that language and rarely find spaces that are conscious of I statements and how to use them. So I don't get as much practice as I like.
Also thanks for the vote of confidence brother (or sister? I shouldn't assume). I was hurt by Genesis' comment. It felt passive aggressive on this end.
And I've been having a rough night so yeah, it hurt.
-------------------- Listen to the silence behind the engines' noise. Jesus, Sweets, listen. Hear it? It's a love song. For whom? You are loved. ~ David Foster Wallace, Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way
Edited by tree frog (12/06/23 05:02 AM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,526
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: tree frog]
#28570944 - 12/06/23 05:01 AM (1 month, 21 days ago) |
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HA! IFS, ha, Brother! right, of course we are such entities.
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tree frog
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: redgreenvines]
#28570956 - 12/06/23 05:20 AM (1 month, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: HA! IFS, ha, Brother! right, of course we are such entities.
Finding an IFS brother on the shroomery, and one I had already become friends with no less, this turned my night around (morning now!).
Appreciate you brother.
Also, deleted the other post that was here. To much personal information for this forum lol. I got excited.
edit: for anyone else reading this I do men's work with a group of guys. Internal Family Systems (we call it parts work in our group), is one of the tools we use to help each other process. I mentioned it very early in the thread. MAPS is using it in trauma processing and Dick Schwartz, who developed the process, has worked a lot with indigenous teachers too.
-------------------- Listen to the silence behind the engines' noise. Jesus, Sweets, listen. Hear it? It's a love song. For whom? You are loved. ~ David Foster Wallace, Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way
Edited by tree frog (12/06/23 05:52 AM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: Northerner]
#28571005 - 12/06/23 06:20 AM (1 month, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Northerner said: ...Then I could see it was a long haired creature moving towards me. It seemed to be humanoid despite looking like a radiant Cousin It and had no feet. It floated towards me as the ground was rolling away from me under it. It drew closer, close enough for me to seen clearly what it was, it was hard for me to tell it's intention. ....
how about this https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0XLwzSO7qc/
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,322
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Re: Have you ever encountered an entity? [Re: Northerner] 1
#28571012 - 12/06/23 06:28 AM (1 month, 21 days ago) |
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Were all human and having our own experiences. Which can lead to interpersonal of something based on your current personal experience. No harm no foul We learn from it We all make mistakes. Its ok I didn't interpret either interaction as offensive. It's very mature to say your feelings are hurt. Because we all gain from that and become more aware.
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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