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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Evidence of Hussein's crimes or just "common" knowledge?
    #2850381 - 07/02/04 08:51 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Seems there were no documents linking Rumsfeld to the prison abuses, so he is free from prosecution.

Using that prerequisite, we must have some documents linking Saddam to genocide, torture and murder.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Evidence of Hussein's crimes or just "common" knowledge? [Re: Swami]
    #2850422 - 07/02/04 09:25 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

From what I can tell Saddam's regime kept meticulous records of their gruesome acts, there are supposedly millions of documents to go through.

Although I imagine at least some of them are going to link Saddam either directly or indirectly, I doubt they are going to be many like "I hereby authorise the slaughter of xxx kurds, Signed S Hussein President of the Iraqi Republic'.

From some of the articles I have read it sounds like the Baath party did their best to distance him from the atrocities.


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Evidence of Hussein's crimes or just "common" knowledge? [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #2850467 - 07/02/04 09:49 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I doubt they are going to be many like "I hereby authorise the slaughter of xxx kurds, Signed S Hussein President of the Iraqi Republic'.

I doubt it as well, but that lack cleared Rummy, didn't it? There were no documents signed that said " I hereby authorize weenie electroshock..."


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Evidence of Hussein's crimes or just "common" knowledge? [Re: Swami]
    #2850507 - 07/02/04 10:14 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, I haven't seen any of the evidence presented against Saddam yet and I doubt you have either. Regardless of any supposed lack of evidence linking him with genocide he still has the invasion of Kuwait and i'm sure if they were that desperate to prosecute him they could find a few people willing to testify against him....


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OfflineGernBlanston
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Re: Evidence of Hussein's crimes or just "common" knowledge? [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #2850648 - 07/02/04 11:32 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Um, yah...

You do know that the US explicitly green-lighted the invasion of Kuwait, dontcha? As in, he asked Poppy Bush for permission, (sec-def)Cheney said okeedokee, and Saddam went it. Then when the international community cried Shennanigans, we got all high-and-mighty and told Saddam to get out, and of course subsequently bombed the hell out of Iraq.

So while we're trying people for the invasion of Iraq...


--------------------
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Evidence of Hussein's crimes or just "common" knowledge? [Re: GernBlanston]
    #2850792 - 07/02/04 12:54 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Sshh Gern...don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

BTW, when do you think Bush will indict the US (and free market lionheart) General Suharto for his genocide in East Timor?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,778
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Evidence of Hussein's crimes or just "common" knowledge? [Re: GernBlanston]
    #2851635 - 07/02/04 03:51 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

You do know that the US explicitly green-lighted the invasion of Kuwait, dontcha?



Really? Explicitly? Unless I've missed it somewhere, this doesn't sound explicit to me.

U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - I have direct instructions from President Bush to improve our relations with Iraq. We have considerable sympathy for your quest for higher oil prices, the immediate cause of your confrontation with Kuwait. (pause) As you know, I lived here for years and admire your extraordinary efforts to rebuild your country. We know you need funds. We understand that, and our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country. (pause) We can see that you have deployed massive numbers of troops in the south. Normally that would be none of our business, but when this happens in the context of your threats against Kuwait, then it would be reasonable for us to be concerned. For this reason, I have received an instruction to ask you, in the spirit of friendship - not confrontation - regarding your intentions: Why are your troops massed so very close to Kuwait's borders?

And....

U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - We have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960's, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America.

web page

Is there something you can point me to the shows the "explicit" approval?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
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Re: Evidence of Hussein's crimes or just "common" knowledge? [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #2851880 - 07/02/04 05:11 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

st0nedphucker said:
From what I can tell Saddam's regime kept meticulous records of their gruesome acts, there are supposedly millions of documents to go through.

Although I imagine at least some of them are going to link Saddam either directly or indirectly, I doubt they are going to be many like "I hereby authorise the slaughter of xxx kurds, Signed S Hussein President of the Iraqi Republic'.

From some of the articles I have read it sounds like the Baath party did their best to distance him from the atrocities.




gassing the kurds wasnt a crime, it was buisiness deal.
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/03/23/news-crogan.php


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Evidence of Hussein's crimes or just "common" knowledge? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2853428 - 07/03/04 08:07 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Is there something you can point me to the shows the "explicit" approval?

Read your own post again. Or better still ask a friend to read it and explain it to you.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,778
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Evidence of Hussein's crimes or just "common" knowledge? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2853507 - 07/03/04 08:46 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Ah, an especially weak attempt at an insult. An even lamer one than usual.

Learn what explicit means. Then try again.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineEd1
member
Registered: 07/03/04
Posts: 150
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Re: Evidence of Hussein's crimes or just "common" knowledge? [Re: Swami]
    #2853656 - 07/03/04 11:54 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


Seems there were no documents linking Rumsfeld to the prison abuses, so he is free from prosecution.

Using that prerequisite, we must have some documents linking Saddam to genocide, torture and murder.






Here's your evidence:

http://massgraves.info/


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OfflineEd1
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Registered: 07/03/04
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Re: Evidence of Hussein's crimes or just "common" knowledge? [Re: Swami]
    #2853674 - 07/03/04 12:05 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Its amazing that anyone can stoop to the level of blaming the USA for the invasion of Kuwait. Whoever says this must be an Islamic terrorist spreading propaganda.


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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 399
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Evidence of Hussein's crimes or just "common" knowledge? [Re: Swami]
    #2853847 - 07/03/04 01:43 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
I doubt they are going to be many like "I hereby authorise the slaughter of xxx kurds, Signed S Hussein President of the Iraqi Republic'.

I doubt it as well, but that lack cleared Rummy, didn't it? There were no documents signed that said " I hereby authorize weenie electroshock..."




Nothing from Hitler indicating he wanted the Holocaust to occur either. Are you absolving him of that atrocity now?


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OfflineGernBlanston
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Re: Evidence of Hussein's crimes or just "common" knowledge? [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2855091 - 07/04/04 01:49 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

germin8tionn8ion said:
Quote:

Swami said:
I doubt they are going to be many like "I hereby authorise the slaughter of xxx kurds, Signed S Hussein President of the Iraqi Republic'.

I doubt it as well, but that lack cleared Rummy, didn't it? There were no documents signed that said " I hereby authorize weenie electroshock..."




Nothing from Hitler indicating he wanted the Holocaust to occur either. Are you absolving him of that atrocity now?




Nothing? Nothing at all from Hitler - in the, what... 13 years he was in power in Germany? No notes? No memos? No quotes? No meetings with the people who carried out the mass executions? No state sponsored propaganda glorifying the purification of the Aryan race?

Man.. I had no idea we had such an illustrious scholar of Germany and Hitler in the second world war in our midst.

GODDAMNIT some of you people sure as fuck think highly of yourselves as sources for all knowledge and good-things.

Nothing my ass.

I REALLY shouldn't drink and come to these boards.
*sigh*


--------------------
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

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Re: Evidence of Hussein's crimes or just "common" knowledge? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2855610 - 07/04/04 06:54 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

We have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960's, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America.





Ir may not be approval but you must admit it is exceedingly two faced and hypocritical to say such things only to attack Iraq when they go ahead an invade Kuwait.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

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Re: Evidence of Hussein's crimes or just "common" knowledge? [Re: Ed1]
    #2855612 - 07/04/04 06:56 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Im guessing you are a teenager with a gun fetish?


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,778
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Evidence of Hussein's crimes or just "common" knowledge? [Re: GazzBut]
    #2855628 - 07/04/04 07:07 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Quote:

We have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960's, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America.





Ir may not be approval but you must admit it is exceedingly two faced and hypocritical to say such things only to attack Iraq when they go ahead an invade Kuwait.



Actually, I seem to recall a coalition kicking Saddams armies ass. With the much ballyhooed U.N.'s approval.

Quote:

Ir may not be approval



That's an understatement.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Registered: 04/14/04
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Re: Evidence of Hussein's crimes or just "common" knowledge? [Re: GernBlanston]
    #2856759 - 07/04/04 06:26 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

GernBlanston said:
Nothing? Nothing at all from Hitler - in the, what... 13 years he was in power in Germany? No notes? No memos? No quotes? No meetings with the people who carried out the mass executions? No state sponsored propaganda glorifying the purification of the Aryan race?




(EDITED OUT BY TRENDL - NO FLAMING!!!) While Saddam might not have issued a proclamation, signed sealed and delivered, wanting the extermination of the Kurds, he certainly did actions and permitted actions that was leading down that path. Now, as for your quotes, no, their are NO documents that Hitler signed authorizing the holocaust, which is what we were talking about. Alot of Germans from that time will tell you that they werent' aware that the holocaust was happening. The point I was trying to make, one that people with such traits as 'literacy' easily could pick up one, was that you don't have to write "I, A. Hitler, authorize jews to be gassed en masse" to be shown as guilty as being behind an action. Since the other actions you spoke of, such as speeches and things, Saddam also did, it's obvious you don't understand the point of the thread I replied to, or the point of my thread.
Quote:


Nothing my ass.




IF SADDAM DIDN'T SIGN ANYTHING THAT OFFICIALLY AUTHORIZED THE EXECUTIONS, THE GASSINGS, AND THE ETHNIC CLEANSING, AND HITLER DIDN'T EITHER, BUT THEY BOTH SPOKE ABOUT THEM, DID NOTHING TO STOP THEM, AND MET WITH THE LEADERS THAT CARRIED THEM OUT, THEN YOU EITHER HAVE TO SAY THAT THEY ARE BOTH INNOCENT OR BOTH GUILTY.
Quote:


I REALLY shouldn't drink and come to these boards.




I agree on both points.


Edited by trendal (07/04/04 07:34 PM)


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OfflineGernBlanston
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Re: Evidence of Hussein's crimes or just "common" knowledge? [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2856816 - 07/04/04 07:12 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

germin8tionn8ion said:
Quote:

GernBlanston said:
Nothing? Nothing at all from Hitler - in the, what... 13 years he was in power in Germany? No notes? No memos? No quotes? No meetings with the people who carried out the mass executions? No state sponsored propaganda glorifying the purification of the Aryan race?




You must not be too terribly bright, understanding metaphors isn't that hard.



Obviously. By the way... that should be a semi-colon, not a comma. Oh! And where, exactly, was your metaphor? I must have missed something, being not too terribly bright and all.

Quote:

While Saddam might not have issued a proclamation, signed sealed and delivered, wanting the extermination of the Kurds, he certainly did actions and permitted actions that was leading down that path. Now, as for your quotes, no, their are NO documents that Hitler signed authorizing the holocaust, which is what we were talking about. Alot of Germans from that time will tell you that they werent' aware that the holocaust was happening. The point I was trying to make, one that people with such traits as 'literacy' easily could pick up one, was that you don't have to write "I, A. Hitler, authorize jews to be gassed en masse" to be shown as guilty as being behind an action. Since the other actions you spoke of, such as speeches and things, Saddam also did, it's obvious you don't understand the point of the thread I replied to, or the point of my thread.




Sorry, I've tried. But you caught me. I have yet to understand a damn thing you've said to this point, or more to the point, whether you've ever had a point! (not to put too fine a point on it)

Quote:


IF SADDAM DIDN'T SIGN ANYTHING THAT OFFICIALLY AUTHORIZED THE EXECUTIONS, THE GASSINGS, AND THE ETHNIC CLEANSING, AND HITLER DIDN'T EITHER, BUT THEY BOTH SPOKE ABOUT THEM, DID NOTHING TO STOP THEM, AND MET WITH THE LEADERS THAT CARRIED THEM OUT, THEN YOU EITHER HAVE TO SAY THAT THEY ARE BOTH INNOCENT OR BOTH GUILTY.



Ok. They're both guilty. I still don't see what this has to do with your response to Swami, which is the part I was respoding about in the first place. Must... get... smarterer...

Quote:


I REALLY shouldn't drink and come to these boards.
Quote:


I agree on both points.






Well, ain't you sweet.


--------------------
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,733
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Re: Evidence of Hussein's crimes or just "common" knowledge? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2856837 - 07/04/04 07:23 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

So what was April gillespie saying then luvdem? If you were an Iraqi how woould you have interpreted the US position?


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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