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GenericHero
one howdy stranger


Registered: 07/07/20
Posts: 1,487
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stuff 1
#28503727 - 10/13/23 08:21 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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How are you guys dealing with intrusive thoughts? I get two varieties. The ones that make my blood pressure and heart rate increase by what feels like quite a bit. Angry stuff. The other is like cold terror at the approach of death. I'm having trouble eating these days which is probably making it worse. I got some cyproheptadine but it doesn't do much. Took some this morning and all I've been able to eat is a sandwich. I try to cope with vigorous exercise but my aging body and low calorie intake is keeping this from being a consistent solution. I pulled or tore something in my leg and won't be able to run again until it heals...
I try cultivating awareness and "urge surfing" which I've rebranded as thought surfing. Like "I'm having a thought. It is okay to have a thought. It will subside in time." This can work for the non imminent death thoughts but not at all for the death thoughts. The non death thoughts are pretty frequent and my coping tools are easily overwhelmed. Can't do anything for the death thoughts. No place to run or hide. Nowhere is actually safe. I can see it coming. Can't do anything about it. I try to rationalize it. My rationalization seems pretty good, but it doesn't help. I'm stressed and sweaty. My sweat stinks.
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halfass mycology
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
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Last seen: 1 hour, 23 minutes
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A concentration practice, Zen, mantra, something. In it you choose (non)thought proactively. It is healthy. Try to develop something regular but if not at first don't let it stop you from practicing however you can. Starting small is fine. Just sitting or relaxing and counting your natural breathing... Find some intro reading on what appeals, or just a simple instruction.
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Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
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Re: stuff [Re: syncro]
#28504216 - 10/14/23 10:49 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Just out of curiosity, OP: Have you ruled out medical causes?
Thoughts of imminent doom (the second kind you describe) is pretty classic panic attack. Combine that with loss of appetite (especially if sudden) and I'd be considering a doctor, if you don't have a history with this.
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GenericHero
one howdy stranger


Registered: 07/07/20
Posts: 1,487
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Re: stuff [Re: syncro]
#28504250 - 10/14/23 11:17 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said: Just out of curiosity, OP: Have you ruled out medical causes?
Thoughts of imminent doom (the second kind you describe) is pretty classic panic attack. Combine that with loss of appetite (especially if sudden) and I'd be considering a doctor, if you don't have a history with this.
I am seeing a doctor, but I don't think they understand the severity of my issues. I was telling them the other day about my death thoughts and a few minutes later they asked me if I've ever had a panic attack. Huh, I thought that's what I just described. I don't know. I think I present as too calm out something. My classic coping behavior is stone faced flat affect kinda thing. I also feel safe at the doctor's. There are nurses around and there's probably an aed around the corner somewhere. I feel like this makes them sceptical of my claims. I dress poorly and don't comb my hair or shave. They know I've partied in the past. I think most assume I am drug seeking. I don't even ask for stuff like benzos. Dunno, I've been documenting the symptoms for the next time I see the doc. I will try to make them understand the magnitude.
Quote:
syncro said: A concentration practice, Zen, mantra, something. In it you choose (non)thought proactively. It is healthy. Try to develop something regular but if not at first don't let it stop you from practicing however you can. Starting small is fine. Just sitting or relaxing and counting your natural breathing... Find some intro reading on what appeals, or just a simple instruction.
I've got a meditation track that I listen to. I practice putting my thoughts and concerns into a box. These thoughts are too big. I can't do anything about the terror.
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halfass mycology
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Anonymous #1
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Are you comfortable giving examples of your thoughts?
Your reaction to the thoughts is the most important initially.
I had to be taught to literally say STOP outloud to stop my own thoughts. I felt silly but it worked. Eventually, because I did feel awkward, etc. It was more important I got my shit together. So I persisted. I was NOT ok.
You know how you feel, I am only speaking about my own experience. But once I was able to literally stop it.. I felt like I had more control over thoughts, feelings, etc.
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




Registered: 08/01/23
Posts: 7,180
Loc: PNW
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So right before you experience, these feelings of eminent doom. What was happening?
We need to identify your triggers.
Once we figure out what’s causing these attacks.
We can start pulling it apart and figure out why.
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GenericHero
one howdy stranger


Registered: 07/07/20
Posts: 1,487
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Quote:
Anonymous #1 said: Are you comfortable giving examples of your thoughts?
Your reaction to the thoughts is the most important initially.
I had to be taught to literally say STOP outloud to stop my own thoughts. I felt silly but it worked. Eventually, because I did feel awkward, etc. It was more important I got my shit together. So I persisted. I was NOT ok.
You know how you feel, I am only speaking about my own experience. But once I was able to literally stop it.. I felt like I had more control over thoughts, feelings, etc.
Well, it would be something like the story structures in my head fall apart suddenly and I realize what's really going on. We grow up reading stuff that gives us a nice framework for interpreting all this data. Children's books all have the sun smiling down on us. The Bible tells us these things were made for us. Reality is the sun is huge beyond imagination. All of our organs are ill equipped to perceive or understand it. It would kill us but for the properties of this planet on which we find ourselves. There is a bottomless pit all around us in every direction. We are traveling at great speeds. Something like 6k mph around the sun. 800k mph around the center of the galaxy. While the galaxy itself moves something like 2mil mph towards the great attractor. I'm surrounded by a bunch of dangerous apes stuck inside these story structures. I had a lady tell me the other day that God made cows so we could drink their milk...
I can't figure out why I'm me. Would I have been something else if not me? How does one become a me? Weird weird shit.
All this weirdness and danger. My kitchen has a few sharp knives. An earthquake could happen and cause me to fall on one. I might have a clot waiting to be thrown. Bad or distracted drivers as I pedal around on a bike. It's coming for me. It's going to get me. It is inevitable. It might be horrible like burning to death in a fire. Then the after. Nothing. I can't wrap my head around it. It's like staring into the sun. The organ defends itself with an auto response. Watering, blinking. How did my hand come to be in front of my face? My brain does something similar when I think about death. I don't have to try to think about it. The thoughts find me. They don't have to come front and center either. I recognize the precursors so to speak. They will cause a response.
Funny you mention the vocal escape. I've developed a sort of high pitched sing song behavior. I hadn't understood that it might have a purpose. My girlfriend would hear me do it from time to time. She found people on Reddit who were doing something similar in response to bad thoughts. She told me and I realized that was what I was doing. Sometimes I will yell loudly. I worry about forgetting where I am and doing this in public.
Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: So right before you experience, these feelings of eminent doom. What was happening?
We need to identify your triggers.
Once we figure out what’s causing these attacks.
We can start pulling it apart and figure out why.
They happen when I am alone and un distracted. They can happen out and about also. I can't look at the sky anymore. Can't even look at it on screens.
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halfass mycology
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




Registered: 08/01/23
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This sounds like you have a fairly crippling case of agoraphobia
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,327
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Those are the thoughts and thought process? Rapid thoughts, mostly seen with bpd and anxiety.
Telling yourself out loud to stop helps.
Reframing your thoughts? Are you comfortable or uncomfortable with them?
Do you want to just organize them or do you understand them?
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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GenericHero
one howdy stranger


Registered: 07/07/20
Posts: 1,487
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Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: This sounds like you have a fairly crippling case of agoraphobia
Yeah, the sky is falling sucking.
Quote:
loladoreen said: Those are the thoughts and thought process? Rapid thoughts, mostly seen with bpd and anxiety.
Telling yourself out loud to stop helps.
Reframing your thoughts? Are you comfortable or uncomfortable with them?
Do you want to just organize them or do you understand them?
Sort of, it's hard to put into words. Dunno about the speed. I guess they could be fast.
I do do vocalizations to try to break out. Sometimes it helps. Other times it's just another part of the experience.
I am uncomfortable with these thoughts. They cause a physiological response that I hate.
I don't know what you mean by organize. I understand them as well as I can at this time with my resources I suppose. My biology has a preserve life function. It is incompatible with my level of consciousness. I know I will die. This triggers fight or flight kinda thing. I can't get my body okay with the idea.
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halfass mycology
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,327
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Ever decompress your vagus nerve to take you out of the fight or flight?
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,327
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Organization of your thoughts is putting them in places, times , etc Control It's difficult with emotions for me Thoughts... I had to learn i control Just like feelings
You experience something traumatic before it started? Or triggered
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,010
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 day, 5 hours
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Quote:
GenericHero said:
I can't figure out why I'm me. Would I have been something else if not me?
There's 100-300 million sperm per ejaculation.
Imagine all the people you could have been.
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




Registered: 08/01/23
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But he couldn’t have been them. They would’ve been them.
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
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Loc: USA
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That was the reply I was hoping for.
Thank you
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




Registered: 08/01/23
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GenericHero
one howdy stranger


Registered: 07/07/20
Posts: 1,487
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
GenericHero said:
I can't figure out why I'm me. Would I have been something else if not me?
There's 100-300 million sperm per ejaculation.
Imagine all the people you could have been.
Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: But he couldn’t have been them. They would’ve been them.
 
It's weird that I wound up being human in the now. Kinda cushy. I guess I should feel lucky or something. But I guess now would be the time to be, in that there are so many opportunities, what with the eight billion people and all
Quote:
loladoreen said: Organization of your thoughts is putting them in places, times , etc Control It's difficult with emotions for me Thoughts... I had to learn i control Just like feelings
You experience something traumatic before it started? Or triggered
I'm terrible at remembering the order in which things occurred. "The other day" or "that one time" are my favorite ways to express when something happened. I try to remind myself of distance between me and certain events. The people involved seem to live in my head though. I wish they would move out or get a job or something.
I guess I should learn how to not engage with thoughts but that seems like witchcraft to me. How can one remember something but not get a response in their body? Another strange life mystery.
I liked jamis from the new dune movie. "The mystery of life is not a problem to solve, but a reality to experience. A process that cannot be understood by stopping it. We must move with the flow of the process, join with it." I didn't care for him in the book. They made him really likeable in the new movie. Sad to see him die.
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halfass mycology
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,327
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No Not like that Example Ill deal with that tomorrow If you don't remember leave it
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




Registered: 08/01/23
Posts: 7,180
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 second
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Thinking of not existing is mu. I think more of the opportunities you have because of existence. I think your anxiety is the number one determining factor of your unhappiness.
There seems to have been some trauma in your life that is kind of emerging in a number of different ways. I could be wrong. But the agoraphobia in particular is something that you can conquer.
But the longer you avoid the problem. The worse I feel like it’s going to get. That doesn’t mean it’s time to lose hope. It means it’s time to get ready. Because you’re going to fight this thing.
When you go on your walk and you feel this anxiety. Try to question why.
If you can make yourself, realize that there is no reason to feel anxious. That you have nothing to fear. You can make yourself not anxious. It just takes a lot of practice.
Focus on your breathing. I find that to be the main first step of meditation. Then you focus on your heartbeat to slow it back down.
As long as you can control your breathing in your heart rate. You’ll find that you are remarkably calm.
I’m just throwing these out here because I don’t want you to have to use medication. I want to treat the condition. I don’t want to cover it up with medication.
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Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
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Quote:
GenericHero said:
Quote:
Kryptos said: Just out of curiosity, OP: Have you ruled out medical causes?
Thoughts of imminent doom (the second kind you describe) is pretty classic panic attack. Combine that with loss of appetite (especially if sudden) and I'd be considering a doctor, if you don't have a history with this.
I am seeing a doctor, but I don't think they understand the severity of my issues. I was telling them the other day about my death thoughts and a few minutes later they asked me if I've ever had a panic attack. Huh, I thought that's what I just described. I don't know. I think I present as too calm out something. My classic coping behavior is stone faced flat affect kinda thing. I also feel safe at the doctor's. There are nurses around and there's probably an aed around the corner somewhere. I feel like this makes them sceptical of my claims. I dress poorly and don't comb my hair or shave. They know I've partied in the past. I think most assume I am drug seeking. I don't even ask for stuff like benzos. Dunno, I've been documenting the symptoms for the next time I see the doc. I will try to make them understand the magnitude.
Quote:
syncro said: A concentration practice, Zen, mantra, something. In it you choose (non)thought proactively. It is healthy. Try to develop something regular but if not at first don't let it stop you from practicing however you can. Starting small is fine. Just sitting or relaxing and counting your natural breathing... Find some intro reading on what appeals, or just a simple instruction.
I've got a meditation track that I listen to. I practice putting my thoughts and concerns into a box. These thoughts are too big. I can't do anything about the terror.
I'm gonna take a different tack from the rest of the comments, go back here, and start over.

I've taken to sticking one of these in my back pocket. 4.5x3.25 inches. Then I can just...write shit down. No particular purpose. Just feel like writing shit down once in a while, and so I do. Great for random...uh, stuff. It's also great for shopping lists and taking notes. Plus, it helps balance out my back pockets, since it's about the width of my wallet. Avoid scoliosis and remove the mental load of unnecessary thoughts, all at once!
They're like 99 cents at walgreens.
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