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GenesisCorrupted
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Prototaxites
#28497891 - 10/09/23 05:09 PM (3 months, 17 days ago) |
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Over 360 million years ago at this point in history during the early Devonian. Trees did not exist, yet let alone huge forests. Plants could grow no higher than a man’s waist, making this giant fungus. The tallest living thing on land, and so in a role reversal, the mushrooms towwered above the other plants, creating an ecosystem so otherworldly it would fit perfectly in a science-fiction story.


 That’s all the way back to 1843, but when it was discovered, no one had any idea the fossils they were looking at where actually of a giant prehistoric fungus. so its true identity evaded discovery for over a century. This was because it shared qualities from several different organism groups. With an average diameter of a meter wide trunk made it look like the base of a tree. Upon a closer inspection of tisdue. It was formed a little tubes of hyphy which are filaments that make up the body of a fungus, the first attempt to classify the new fossils concluded that it was a peculiar ancient Connifer that fossilized while rotting. So fungus grew on it. Which would explain why It had features from both groups, however, this theory was quickly abandoned. it was large, similar to marine algae. But overwhelming evidence that the organism grew on land. As recently as 2001 when the specimens will be examined, and based on its internal structure, it was finally re-classified as actually a giant ancient fungus Proven with modern technology, it was found out by studying the carbon isotopes. Specifically the ratios between two common forms of carbon carbon, 12 and carbon 13.




Edited by GenesisCorrupted (10/09/23 05:13 PM)
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covertjoy

Registered: 07/09/23
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Amazing. Would love a viable sample of this preserved in amber or something to try to cross with Ps. Natalensis!
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GenesisCorrupted
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Even though the DNA is fully petrified? Ask them. There are samples in many museums. And it is possible to find it yourself. I would love to see what you could make.
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covertjoy

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Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: Even though the DNA is fully petrified? Ask them. There are samples in many museums. And it is possible to find it yourself. I would love to see what you could make.
I am thinking along the lines of the movie Jurassic Park. I don't think it would be possible without some extreme level of technology and/or luck! From what I am reading the oldest DNA is 2 million years old, which itself is insane. This would be 180x older than that!
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GenesisCorrupted
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Doesn’t matter. They were able to analyze it’s DNA. Which means that a DNA sample exists. Which means that you could ask for one. Why not?
The real challenge for you. Would be in trying to mimic the conditions in which it was alive. I’m talking humidifier. I’m talking like chemicals that you would need to mix in with the soil. At really poisonous levels for most plants alive right now. Imagine stuff around a volcano. You would need to have gas probably introduced into its environment on a consistent level. You would need to have this clean room set up for it. You can’t introduce anything. It would be like an actual scientific endeavor. But I do believe you could do it if you really were dedicated. Imagine if you and me. Right now. We’re inventing the future of psychedelic mushrooms. If you cross bread, a mushroom that could grow as tall as a saguaro cactus. It would take a week to grow under perfect conditions. And it would be psychedelic in nature? I would want some credit for giving you the idea if you’re cool with that. But we could change the world.
Edited by GenesisCorrupted (10/09/23 06:10 PM)
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covertjoy

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I don't think there is any DNA! At least that is the implication of this article: https://schaechter.asmblog.org/schaechter/2018/03/fungomania-ii-the-humongousest-fungus.html
Quote:
Prototaxites has morphological affinities with certain marine brown algae (kelps) but these did not emerge until 100 − 90 million years ago, thus this relationship can't be right. When all this is said, what would they not give for a minuscule amount of Prototaxites DNA!
That said, let's say we did have a sample of ancient fungal DNA that was chemically intact but the spore or hyphae around it was degraded. I wonder what the best approach to cloning it would be using current modern technology.
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GenesisCorrupted
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There are methods. I just wonder how you would be able to do it without getting in political trouble. You would have to use some sort of cloning machine. Or reverse engineer, a mushroom back into its primordial self, by continually exposing it to more of the degraded, DNA, and seeing if it grabs on any of it.
This is outside of my realm of experience. I’m just throwing out theories.
Edited by GenesisCorrupted (11/25/23 06:30 PM)
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durian_2008
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DNA is extracted from rock fossils, some scientists being more controversial than others.
It is conceptually simple-enough to grow that there are ethics concerns in high-school-level science fairs.
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GenesisCorrupted
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Ethical concerns, Schmechel‘s concerns. I want Jurassic era psilocybin mushroom hybrids!
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durian_2008
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To insert a plasmid into a denucleated cell is the same basic discussion as the anti-vaxxer thread. The techniques used on mammalian cell lines would apply to fungi and plants.
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GenesisCorrupted
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Just breed them. Then make the mushrooms kiss. What is not to like about this plan?
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durian_2008
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For instance, to isolate and purify DNA. (That stumped a famous PhD, when put on the spot.) It can be done in a kitchen.
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Alan Rockefeller
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Quote:
durian_2008 said: DNA is extracted from rock fossils, some scientists being more controversial than others.
No one has been able to create a living thing from a full genome DNA sequence.
Old DNA is fragmented so heavily that it is unlikely that an assembly of ancient DNA would be very accurate. Long reads are needed for accurate genome assembly due to the repeat regions. Ancient DNA is mostly useful for phylogeny, though a gene or two could be reconstructed and added to a modern fungus.
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GenesisCorrupted
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But like Jurassic Park. We do know the relatives of this mushroom. We could easily find those relatives and use that to fill in the blanks. It wouldn’t be the full stature of the ones back then. But we would still have some sort of gigantic mushroom.
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durian_2008
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Quote:
durian_2008 said: DNA is extracted from rock fossils, some scientists being more controversial than others.
Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: No one has been able to create a living thing from a full genome DNA sequence.
Old DNA is fragmented so heavily that it is unlikely that an assembly of ancient DNA would be very accurate. Long reads are needed for accurate genome assembly due to the repeat regions. Ancient DNA is mostly useful for phylogeny, though a gene or two could be reconstructed and added to a modern fungus.
I have followed your collection and sequencing of rare samples.
Non homologous end joining does seem to be caused by caustic means and by brute forces, when someone is intentionally trying to create a chimeric organism.
But, standard amplification assumes that the test subject it is chopped to bits, in the first place.
Pliable, greasy, liquid, and stinky tissues are alleged to come from animal fossils -- controversially.
Even in the most conservative versions of selective breeding, mostly unfortunate mutations are weeded out, and the rare survivors are selected for vigor, until their traits become stabilized.
I agree, the discussion pertains to doing something that is unlikely. Such a procedure would be as much an entertaining thought experiment as done for research purposes. I assume, at personal expense.
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durian_2008
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Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: Ethical concerns, Schmechel‘s concerns. I want Jurassic era psilocybin mushroom hybrids!
The prolific growth rates of fungi, slime molds, and contaminants -- such as in a terrarium -- creates an ethical concern, as some cultivators may have noticed in a matter of hours.
When tinkers play with corn pollen, for instance, they used what amounts to a clean room, in a bunker, in order to avoid genetic drift.
The life form that you want to recreate, in theory, would have overtaken an entire epoch of nature.
Although, experiments involving horizontal gene transfer have oftentimes been performed upon yeasts, primitive life forms, and parasitic bacteria, irl, what does it take, not to carry that out of your clean area.
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Alan Rockefeller
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Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: But like Jurassic Park. We do know the relatives of this mushroom. We could easily find those relatives and use that to fill in the blanks. It wouldn’t be the full stature of the ones back then. But we would still have some sort of gigantic mushroom.
What are the relatives of Prototaxites?
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durian_2008
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Quote:
What are the relatives of Prototaxites?
You might be the person, who discovers it.
To the best of my understanding, some people believe that it might be a symbiont, like a lichen.
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GenesisCorrupted
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It’s actually related to common algae.
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durian_2008
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People trying to classify Prototaxites seem to have been puzzled by the different tissue types, within the same structure.
Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: It’s actually related to common algae.
Are you referering to Lichens or Prototaxites?
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GenesisCorrupted
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This was so long ago. It very well could be related to both. All they know is that it has strong relationships in the algae family. The YouTube video actually talks about it pretty in-depth.
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durian_2008
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Quote:
Oregon’s Giant: The Largest Organism on Earth https://www.bibalex.org/SCIplanet/en/Article/Details.aspx?id=13515
Scientists think that the rhizomorphs are what enable a single Armillaria organism to grow so big...The rhizomorphs may be akin to mushroom stems that failed to sprout and grow a cap; instead it grew long and thin underground.
The tip of an Armillaria rhizomorph. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/e-The-tip-of-an-Armillaria-rhizomorph-The-yellow-subapical-region-represents-a-slowly_fig2_343598829
Does it anatomically resemble Prototaxites?
Quote:
Prototaxites: A Giant that Never Was? http://coo.fieldofscience.com/2010/02/prototaxites-giant-that-never-was.html Reconstruction by Kandis Elliot of Silurian liverwort mats being rolled by wind, gravity and/or water movement to form 'Prototaxites'. From Graham et al. (2010).
If modernday mushrooms are prone to forming such large masses, they are metabolically capable of supporting fewer, larger fruit, without going through the trouble of inserting ancient genes from whatever life form.
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