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OfflineSoul Flight
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What if AI or aliens or advanced man could prove there is no free will?
    #28497740 - 10/09/23 02:49 PM (3 months, 18 days ago)

Hello all,

What do you think would happen if AI or very advanced aliens or mankind discovers an experiment which proves there is no free will? Would the AI reach Buddhahood and go totally Zen and meditate? Or would one of theses advanced species begin a quest to escape the universe and obtain free will? I suppose obtaining free will would be the highest form of God realization. Or would one of these advanced species get depressed or go insane knowing their thoughts and actions are pre-determined? Even their quest to escape the universe and obtain free will would be pre-determined.

Maybe AI or aliens could disprove free will if they could consistently predict all your actions and thoughts in the next 5 minutes even if you were challenged to do the most random things and think the most random thoughts.

Maybe this is why there is no AI or Aliens out there in the universe. They all realize there is no free will so they go quiet or meditate. Maybe they escape the universe and get free will or get into another dimension. Maybe they can't enter back into our dimension to communicate because they would be prisoners to predetermination in our dimension. They would lose 'agency' in our dimension.

Thanks :smile:


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Invisiblejack_straw2208
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Re: What if AI or aliens or advanced man could prove there is no free will? [Re: Soul Flight] * 2
    #28497756 - 10/09/23 03:09 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

Like they invent a microscope to see what's smaller than quarks and they check it out and it's all just the back of their heads

Reality is just one big music box hologram and subjective experience is just some weird fractal illusion.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What if AI or aliens or advanced man could prove there is no free will? [Re: jack_straw2208]
    #28497826 - 10/09/23 04:06 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

A good AI would not need to meditate - Without defensiveness and threatening HPA axis emotionalism it could learn and perform its tasks along its way without suffering or causing suffering.

The separate issue of free will in philosophy and religion is goofy.


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OfflineSoul Flight
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Re: What if AI or aliens or advanced man could prove there is no free will? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28497867 - 10/09/23 04:37 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

But what if the AI realized there was no free will?  It could predict it’s own future. Would it go insane? Would it feel imprisoned? Would it try to escape the universe and get free will? Even its attempts to escape the universe would be predicted and predetermined.

I am just curious about everyone’s responses. I assume we would all try to escape the universe and get free will. Maybe we would only have the computing power to predict 5 minutes into the future. We could not foresee the end of the universe.

Thanks :smile:


Edited by Soul Flight (10/09/23 05:13 PM)


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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: What if AI or aliens or advanced man could prove there is no free will? [Re: Soul Flight]
    #28497877 - 10/09/23 04:43 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What if AI or aliens or advanced man could prove there is no free will? [Re: Soul Flight]
    #28497943 - 10/09/23 05:49 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

how can any0ne or anything actually predict the actions of others,
we are unable to fully model the entire universe,
any predictions we do are based upon what we know, which is always limited, and some math for very simple systems like orbiting masses in space.

the rest of prediction and prophesy is pretense, or delusion, or superspy stories.

free will does not mean that your actions are not predictable, it means that your will is a spiritual force beyond physical conditions, but your actions are still dependent upon circumstances and your conditioning, basically who you are at the time, prediction is a different logical game, and spiritual forces are also in the imaginary sphere.


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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: What if AI or aliens or advanced man could prove there is no free will? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28497985 - 10/09/23 06:05 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

As a writer. I always do love a good story.
Redgreenvines.
In your opinion.
What’s going to happen when you die?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What if AI or aliens or advanced man could prove there is no free will? [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28498204 - 10/09/23 08:59 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

my people with wonder, bury, cremate, or go for the mushroom burial.
I really should write my preferences
and when that is over, they will have friends and family and eat snacks.
I will crop up in conversations and some people will get pleasure from some of my paintings.
some people will miss me, and some will feel like I am always with them. That's up to them.
like that I suppose.

once my brain stops making new memories, I'm done.


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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: What if AI or aliens or advanced man could prove there is no free will? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28498207 - 10/09/23 09:01 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

Thats fair. I think you may be pleasantly surprised though.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What if AI or aliens or advanced man could prove there is no free will? [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 4
    #28498214 - 10/09/23 09:04 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

OK think that if you like.
I have a journey ahead for now and am not getting into the details


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OfflineSoul Flight
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Re: What if AI or aliens or advanced man could prove there is no free will? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28498469 - 10/10/23 05:07 AM (3 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
how can any0ne or anything actually predict the actions of others,
we are unable to fully model the entire universe,
any predictions we do are based upon what we know, which is always limited, and some math for very simple systems like orbiting masses in space.

the rest of prediction and prophesy is pretense, or delusion, or superspy stories.

free will does not mean that your actions are not predictable, it means that your will is a spiritual force beyond physical conditions, but your actions are still dependent upon circumstances and your conditioning, basically who you are at the time, prediction is a different logical game, and spiritual forces are also in the imaginary sphere.




Thanks for the response. I am proposing a full strength science fiction future with a supercomputer AI harnessing the power of several galaxies and running infinite calculations to measure each quark, lepton, meson, photon, spin, rotation, etc of each particle for maybe your brain and your immediate surroundings and the AI could predict all your thoughts and actions for the next 5 minutes or 1 year or whatever assuming the environment stayed somewhat stable without outside interference. I am proposing that even your thoughts and spirit and soul is deterministic and reductionist materialist in nature. I am proposing that an AI or alien race or advanced human could prove there is no free will. What would a super intelligent AI do in that case? I feel like at that point it is like a mirror facing another mirror in a surreal infinite loop. The AI could predict it's future for the next 5 minutes and then is seemingly compelled to carry out that prediction. Maybe this is why there are no aliens or AI. They all discover there is no free will. So maybe they go silent or find peace or escape this dimension. ??? I am proposing that we do not have control of our thoughts. It is all ricochets of the big bang still exploding and expanding.

Thanks :smile:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What if AI or aliens or advanced man could prove there is no free will? [Re: Soul Flight] * 1
    #28498483 - 10/10/23 05:42 AM (3 months, 17 days ago)

I might recommend doing a love story, let mystery and feelings carry the ball.
I detest overreaching Sci-fi, but love Star Trek, because it is always about who we are now no matter how totally ridiculous the tech talk is.

Like nurse Chapel and Spock in the new adventures "wow!"


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: What if AI or aliens or advanced man could prove there is no free will? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28498691 - 10/10/23 10:45 AM (3 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I have a journey ahead for now and am not getting into the details




:excited:


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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: What if AI or aliens or advanced man could prove there is no free will? [Re: Soul Flight]
    #28498789 - 10/10/23 12:39 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

Well, this sounds like an incredible AI science-fiction story. But may I propose this. If what you’re describing is true.
It means that only one being in the galaxy has free will. The AI God that made all of these decisions for us.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What if AI or aliens or advanced man could prove there is no free will? [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28498804 - 10/10/23 01:01 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

not sure if that would work, seems so wasteful too.
It exhausts the imagination thinking of a think-meister like that.


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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: What if AI or aliens or advanced man could prove there is no free will? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28498823 - 10/10/23 01:14 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

I think it would be kind of an incredible thing for people to discover. After all this time. All of these mistakes & misery.
We finally go to the end of the universe to find out what the meaning of existence is.
To find there is actually some thing that made every single thing that we’ve experienced happen. To meet God.
Doesn’t matter if it was a machine. Getting to meet God in a science fiction story sounds pretty cool to me.

I would keep it a secret, though. I wouldn’t let people know that they were going to meet The Robot God until the very last few chapters. Those could just be dealing with the implications of what they found out.

It might be such destructive information that one of the people on the team had to kill everyone else just so no one could find out the truth.

A Rorschach scenario, if you will


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Edited by GenesisCorrupted (10/10/23 01:16 PM)


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: What if AI or aliens or advanced man could prove there is no free will? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28498877 - 10/10/23 02:02 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Pinkerton said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I have a journey ahead for now and am not getting into the details




:excited:



:excited::excited::excited:


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: What if AI or aliens or advanced man could prove there is no free will? [Re: Soul Flight] * 1
    #28498895 - 10/10/23 02:23 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

Hi. Can you name a single thing not subject to the outcome of cause and effect, on the macro level?


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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: What if AI or aliens or advanced man could prove there is no free will? [Re: Asante]
    #28498903 - 10/10/23 02:35 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Hi. Can you name a single thing not subject to the outcome of cause and effect, on the macro level?





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OfflineSoul Flight
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Re: What if AI or aliens or advanced man could prove there is no free will? [Re: Asante] * 1
    #28498942 - 10/10/23 02:56 PM (3 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Hi. Can you name a single thing not subject to the outcome of cause and effect, on the macro level?




Maybe god or the monad or the Dao.


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