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Onlinelifeiswhatyoumake
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The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. * 3
    #28495425 - 10/07/23 12:18 PM (7 months, 7 days ago)

People started talking about this in the Ukraine war thread, so I made this thread so we can have a place to talk about it without getting off topic in the other thread.



From what I've gathered, Hamas launched a coordinated multi-front attack on Israel in the morning of October 6, 2023.  The attack included over 2,000 rockets fired over the border, and at least thirteen trucks filled with Hamas militants armed with AR-style weapons.  The trucks seem to mostly be acting on their own, just driving around Israeli settlements and shooting civilians at random, and going door to door to kill people in their homes, take them hostage back to Gaza, or keep them hostage in their homes.

There appears to have been no resistance at all by Israel military to stop these trucks from crossing the border.  A total intelligence failure.  Perhaps they put their guard down because this weekend is a holiday weekend for Jews?

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has declared war.  Air strikes are already underway in Gaza and at least 200 have been killed there.

Post updates to this conflict here.



https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/07/middleeast/sirens-israel-rocket-attack-gaza-intl-hnk/index.html

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/7/sirens-warn-of-rockets-launched-towards-israel-from-gaza-news-reports

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-says-palestinian-militants-are-infiltrating-gaza-rcna119315

Edited by lifeiswhatyoumake (10/07/23 12:33 PM)

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake] * 1
    #28495452 - 10/07/23 12:52 PM (7 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

There appears to have been no resistance at all by Israel military to stop these trucks from crossing the border.






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OfflineMilleresque
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic] * 3
    #28495491 - 10/07/23 01:24 PM (7 months, 7 days ago)

This is a seriously complicated, painful, loaded subject to broach…and I’ve only had one sip of my morning coffee after the usual “fuck my life” pre dawn mantra.

And if you thought the Ukrainian thread attracted some moronic partisan opinions, well, stand back.

This is horrific and for me I have to look at actions like these as another prison riot. The violent and rebellious lashing out that comes from living in apartheid, occupied, funnelled, controlled, with your food and electricity under the control of your jailer.

It will accomplish nothing but an overly heavy response…as it always does. Israel’s government is not “the good guy”. Hamas is not “the good guy”. The Palestinian people have been living under a set of circumstances that are abysmal and illegal. This whole situation, for all people involved is simply awful and my heart breaks a little this morning, thinking  of people who are just like me, going through this. Israeli and Palestinian.

I don’t know how it happens but the occupation has to stop, otherwise this shit will continue. People don’t want to live in prison. They tend to get their backs up every now and again. I hope (knowing otherwise) that Israel can use some goddamn restraint and Hamas realises that this shit only invites worse shit, but I get it. It’s a howl of anger and pain.

Now there’ll be more howling, and bleeding, and death.


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“Develop an interest in life as you see it; in people, things, literature, music - the world is so rich, simply throbbing with rich treasures, beautiful souls and interesting people. Forget yourself.“

Henry Miller

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OnlineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Milleresque]
    #28495502 - 10/07/23 01:39 PM (7 months, 7 days ago)

Seriously I hope the people of Palestine will rise up against all these Hamas people doing terrorism stuff and hurting folks

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL] * 3
    #28495517 - 10/07/23 02:02 PM (7 months, 7 days ago)

What is there to say? Decades of Israeli oppression has finally boiled over. Israel has responded with airstrikes, but these will mostly only be aimed at massacring civilians, per usual. Hamas' command structure is probably underground at this point. Thing is, the people of Gaza are used to this and willing to bear just about any cost. The Hamas operation is wildly popular amongst them.

The IDF looks like it will try a ground operation to occupy Gaza. Unfortunately, it looks like this will cause Hezbollah to get involved now too. There is video of soldiers heading to the border. Hezbollah is much more capable than Hamas.

This might turn into a serious regional war involving Lebanon.

The Israel project, as long as it pursued a policy of total aggression both towards its neighbors and towards the locals from whom it has stolen an entire country, was always unsustainable. And the US policy of holding Israel's hand as it did whatever it wanted, committed any crime it wanted, has failed miserably.

This is the natural result. Now we will face the consequences.

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OnlineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: chopstick] * 1
    #28495527 - 10/07/23 02:13 PM (7 months, 7 days ago)

Yes that's the radicalist slant used to try to justify these unbelievably atrocious acts of terror!

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL] * 5
    #28495551 - 10/07/23 02:40 PM (7 months, 7 days ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Yes that's the radicalist slant used to try to justify these unbelievably atrocious acts of terror!




It’s weird how there’s no outrage at the atrocious acts of terror inflicted upon the Palestinian people every day.

Easy to moralize about the proper limitations of an oppressed people as you sit comfortably in the AC in a nation that hasn’t been attacked by a sovereign nation since their great grandfather was alive.



Palestinians are not given the options that the Western media urges them to use instead of violence. We are told to be more outraged at the Boycott, Divest, Sanction movement than by illegal settlements, assassinations of journalists, and just overall wanton violence against certain ethnic groups. Even the lapdog Human Rights Watch acknowledges the apartheid system at this point.

Anyone equivocating at this point is just a useful idiot. At the very best, they are advocating for a status quo which has resulted in horrific consequences for the occupied people.




As far as what this ‘Storm of Al Aqsa’ will accomplish for the Palestinian people, that remains unknown. Obviously there is Israeli retaliation happening, level entire apartment buildings in Gaza City, and cutting off electricity to the entire of Gaza (another war crime). But what would you have them do? They’ve been living in an open air prison for over 50 years, they’d rather fight than succumb to slow death.



By the way, Mossad created Hamas to undercut the popularity and reasonable-ness of Fatah and the PLO. So don’t think Israeli leaders are weeping over this recent attack. They’re absolutely stoked that they can once again easily demonize the Palestinian people, equate them with terrorism, and accelerate their plans for an Israel entirely ethnically cleansed of Palestinians.


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OfflineMilleresque
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL] * 1
    #28495562 - 10/07/23 02:46 PM (7 months, 7 days ago)

I just don’t understand what Hamas thought these acts would achieve, other than political support for the Israeli prime minister, who is an abomination. I just don’t get it. Who stands to benefit? What was Hamas end goal here?

Again, who stands to benefit the most? How could Israeli intelligence services so apparently unaware that this was in the works?

I’ll say it: Israel has been riven by political protests for almost a whole year. Benjamin has lost a lot of political captial.

He’s now getting a lot of support. Interesting.


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“Develop an interest in life as you see it; in people, things, literature, music - the world is so rich, simply throbbing with rich treasures, beautiful souls and interesting people. Forget yourself.“

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Milleresque]
    #28495598 - 10/07/23 03:17 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

Ben is gonna get it now.

Nothing like a conflict to bring agreement between rival factors or  unpopular leadership. In today's day in age, any two bit government can string along an ambush like this. If Hamas thinks things are wrong now, just wait.

I could care less for either side as they both dip their wicks in this shit. If I was a betting man, the Palestinians are gonna be in a world of eating more shit sandwiches.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Edited by SirTripAlot (10/07/23 03:21 PM)

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #28495625 - 10/07/23 04:21 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1710777004046336510

All resistance combat units throughout Syria and Lebanon were put on war alert by the issuance of an order from Seyyed Hassan Nasrallah.

The resistance is ready to start the final battle in a united front."

— Hezbollah


Shit is getting real. What a catastrophe for our world. An avoidable one too, if the Israelis had merely chosen to be respectful towards Palestine and their Arab neighbors instead of supporting ISIS and oppressing the Palestinians while believing themselves to be invincible and superior to everyone else.

Israel has been fucking around for decades, and now they're finally about to hit the "find out" stage. This has been a long time coming and it is extremely unfortunate that it all had to come to this.

Too bad this will come at a huge cost in human lives, with unpredictable consequences.

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OfflineB Traven
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
    #28495641 - 10/07/23 04:44 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

I haven't done a deep news dive yet, as I'm just not ready to wade through all the inevitable bullshit.

But I'm really struggling to understand how over a dozen trucks loaded with armed men were able to drive around in Israel, and randomly go from house to house killing people.

And I understand that a bunch of rocket attacks at once can overwhelm any defenses, but don't they also have all sorts of surveillance and aerial defense systems in place?

I'm not a big military technology buff, but I really thought the IDF was advanced enough to at least meet a threat like this head-on.

I normally hate conspiracy theories with a passion, but this just feels absurdly convenient. I'd honestly love to be proven wrong there.


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Beware of advice- even this.

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven] * 2
    #28495652 - 10/07/23 04:50 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

I've seen a couple claims of intelligence failures. Which is very possible.

Also, apparently IDF troops go home for the Sabbath? Hence, the intelligence failure was magnified, because due to religious custom the soldiers weren't even near their posts.

Thing about religious nuts killing other religious nuts, and religious nuts in general, is that they follow these weird-ass rituals for some reason, and those rituals rarely, if ever, make sense.

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OfflineB Traven
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #28495660 - 10/07/23 04:58 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

Yeah, that's a great point.

I guess, too, that both Hamas and the IDF are motivated to exaggerate the magnitude of the offensive. An odd case where Hamas wants to claim as many kidnappings and civilian casualties as possible, and the IDF is also interested in hyping this up to justify going HAM. As opposed to more symmetrical warfare, where the tendency is to downplay both your own casualties and the numher of civilians you killed, and do the opposite for your enemies.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Milleresque]
    #28495707 - 10/07/23 05:58 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Milleresque said:
I just don’t understand what Hamas thought these acts would achieve, other than political support for the Israeli prime minister, who is an abomination. I just don’t get it. Who stands to benefit? What was Hamas end goal here?

Again, who stands to benefit the most? How could Israeli intelligence services so apparently unaware that this was in the works?

I’ll say it: Israel has been riven by political protests for almost a whole year. Benjamin has lost a lot of political captial.

He’s now getting a lot of support. Interesting.




There have been reports that the joint effort was directed at the gulf state’s normalization of relations with Israel. But honestly, even if their goals were to random soldiers back to Israel in exchange for Palestinians being released from prison, it’s worth it.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28495914 - 10/07/23 09:20 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

Meh, them coming to power in 1982 (Hezzzbollla) as a response to Israel's invasion of Beirut during Lebanon's civil war still smells butthurt. Without a doubt, they are stronger now, but mainly in antiquted conventional warfare.

I disagree that this will be worth it to Hamas and their mutual allies. Time will tell, but this isn't some tit for tat, let's just launch some old motars over the border shit and praise the martyrs. I think the response from Israel will be exponentially more damaging.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Edited by SirTripAlot (10/07/23 09:22 PM)

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28496096 - 10/08/23 02:27 AM (7 months, 6 days ago)

Israel could and would take out Hamas in a couple days, if there were no other regional or world wide considerations, and obviously there are. The U.S. gives Israel a lot of slack, and the limits have not been fully tested but there are limits.

Iraq says they're joining the war against Israel, we'll see. Conflict between U.S. and Iraq has seemed inevitable, but the timing might be tricky with the American election cycle. Normally the U.S. right wing would be gung ho for this (saving Jerusalem etc.), but is American political unity possible now for any issue?


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Milleresque] * 3
    #28496156 - 10/08/23 04:55 AM (7 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Milleresque said:
I just don’t understand what Hamas thought these acts would achieve




I think the Palestinians have decided it’s worth going down swinging, they have nothing left to loose and have had enough of living in an outdoor jail, sanctioned to hell.
It’s a pity they didn’t target Netanyahu and other Israeli hardliners.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28496176 - 10/08/23 05:22 AM (7 months, 6 days ago)

Yeah, no disagreement with any of that.

I always thought Israel should give the Palestinians some land and  all this could have been avoided, but that was probably naive. There is some twisted conflict beyond the land issue.

Israel has sustained peace with Egypt and can negotiate rationally with Saudi Arabia but not with Palestine. They say civil wars are the worst.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OfflineB Traven
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28496286 - 10/08/23 09:05 AM (7 months, 6 days ago)

Palestine never had a chance to be a truly independent country. Their entire existence has been similar to the Bantustans of South Africa.

Combine that with the Israeli state's policy of collective punishment, and the ability of people from around the world to move to Israel, claim citizenship, and immediately move into illegal settlements, and yeah. There's a brew of boredom, resentment, and rage that won't be easily dispelled.

Israel is an odd place. People move there every day, while a lot of locals see no future there and are trying to get the fuck out. Reminds me of Florida a little.


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Beware of advice- even this.

Edited by B Traven (10/08/23 09:06 AM)

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven] * 3
    #28496360 - 10/08/23 10:16 AM (7 months, 6 days ago)

My limited information makes Palestine seem exactly like an open-air prison. As far as I can tell, the borders are closed in every direction, including non-Israeli directions, by Israel. All utilities are controlled by Israel, all infrastructure is controlled by Israel. Unemployment is >50%, and IDF forces routinely shoot into Palestine indiscriminately. And, of course, Israeli settlements routinely pop up (with associated massacres of the previous occupants).

Personally, I agree with the idea that it is human nature to seek to escape confinement.

I also think that when people run out of ways to redress their grievances peacefully, they will turn to violence.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28496382 - 10/08/23 10:44 AM (7 months, 6 days ago)

The UN itself enshrines the right of armed struggle by occupied peoples.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28496402 - 10/08/23 11:05 AM (7 months, 6 days ago)

Unfortunately, the UN is also human and therefore rarely consistent and evenhanded.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28496428 - 10/08/23 11:28 AM (7 months, 6 days ago)

Religious freaks killing other religious freaks. Let’s just hope they finish each other off this time before the rest of the world is dragged into their biblically based insanity.


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NotSheekle said
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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods] * 1
    #28496492 - 10/08/23 12:16 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

People die, ideas don't. Dead people cheapen life, and a place with >50% unemployment has a lot of people with not much going on.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods] * 2
    #28496622 - 10/08/23 02:28 PM (7 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Religious freaks killing other religious freaks. Let’s just hope they finish each other off this time before the rest of the world is dragged into their biblically based insanity.




Before? Did you forget the apartheid state side’s existence is dependent on our military support?


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28496786 - 10/08/23 04:53 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

List of US politicians as of 2018 with dual citizenship in Israel

Edited, false information.

Edited by Stable Genius (10/09/23 04:20 PM)

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OfflineIce9
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28496796 - 10/08/23 05:00 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

You can strike Feinstein off that list
:batlol:

Other than that, nice lazy dual loyalty antisemitic trope

*Jesus that list is way out of date.  How does it have relevance today?


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

Edited by Ice9 (10/08/23 05:21 PM)

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #28496818 - 10/08/23 05:16 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:

Seems like a large representation from one particular party to me  :shrug:




asians are good at math:shrug:

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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28496824 - 10/08/23 05:21 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
List of US politicians as of 2018 with dual citizenship in Israel



Seems like a large representation from one particular party to me  :shrug:




Fake news. That’s literally just a list of Jewish politicians. God damn you are a sucker for misinformation


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (10/08/23 05:22 PM)

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OfflineIce9
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #28496825 - 10/08/23 05:22 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Its typical antisemitic crap.  Not surprised SG frequents sites where that type of "information" is promulgated :picard:


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Ice9]
    #28496830 - 10/08/23 05:28 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

But he’s soooo anti-Nazi


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NotSheekle said
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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #28496831 - 10/08/23 05:28 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Oh well if it’s crap it’s crap, fair point.
You’d remember Trump also recognised the Golan Heights as part of Israel.
Point is why doesn’t the U.S. government, left or right, ever condemn any Israeli aggression?

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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Ice9]
    #28496835 - 10/08/23 05:31 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
Its typical antisemitic crap.  Not surprised SG frequents sites where that type of "information" is promulgated :picard:




Piss off with your antiemetic crap labels. Israel is reaping what it has invested in.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Ice9] * 2
    #28497092 - 10/08/23 08:47 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

"Anti-semitism" is just a really cheap label designed to deflect criticism from Israel, Zionism, and other corrupt billionaire oligarchs whom also just so happen to be jewish (George Soros comes to mind.)

It's garbage and not at all surprising that people who post articles from fucking CNN like Ice9 would resort to using it.

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see that the US Gov goes out of its way to defend Israel even when they are flattening entire apartment buildings full of women and kids, and that this has contributed to the unsustainable situation in Israel which has now turned into an open war, because people on a certain side refuse to compromise and refuse to acknowledge that the Palestinians are also human beings like us.

The US Government and Israel both just want you to believe that the genocide of the Palestinians is fine and necessary and OK because Palestinian lives are worthless.

Speaking of flattening apartment buildings, funny how Israel has been given a free pass on this for decades, they are doing it right now as we speak, but if Russia does it then we need to risk WW3 to stop it. Lmfao. US foreign policy has never been anything more than a hypocritical and corrupt joke.

If anything, the way that the US is responding to the crisis in Israel just lends even more justification to the Russian operation in Ukraine. The world will no longer tolerate the US Gov's position which is that some lives are super important (Israeli, Ukrainian) while others are worthless to the point that it's perfectly fine to commit outright genocide against them (Palestinians, Donbass civilians).

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
    #28497110 - 10/08/23 09:03 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

:asianofapproval:

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
    #28497121 - 10/08/23 09:15 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:


If anything, the way that the US is responding to the crisis in Israel just lends even more justification to the Russian operation in Ukraine.





That's one hell of a special pleading.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28497126 - 10/08/23 09:21 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Chopstick firmly aligning himself with the group that is beheading hostages


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #28497141 - 10/08/23 09:40 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

There is no getting around that killing over 200 civilians at a music festival can not be justified by acts of some government they don't like. They probably killed some of their own in this.  This is not the kind of accident that happens because people were around somebody important and it was collateral damage or one of their fire crackers malfunctioned and didn't go where the tried for it to go. 
Cheers

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot] * 4
    #28497164 - 10/08/23 10:44 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Israeli editorial nails it



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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods] * 1
    #28497172 - 10/08/23 11:02 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Yeah. That does hit the nail on the head Koods, although barring some mass popular protest Netanyahu isn’t going anywhere. He’s in love with power and, I suspect, he would do anything whatsoever to hold onto it.

Time will tell but I’m fairly certain a snide operator like Netanyahu will squeeze every bit of support he can from this horror show.

And it is a horror show. From all angles and any way you look at it. Sometimes I wish I was some kind of hard, emotionless “macho man”, but I’m not and this bloody shit gets me really upset. we kill each other over the stories we tell. This is not a demarcation of intelligence.

“Money killing monkey over pieces of the ground.”


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: gww]
    #28497173 - 10/08/23 11:04 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

gww said:
There is no getting around that killing over 200 civilians at a music festival can not be justified by acts of some government they don't like. They probably killed some of their own in this.  This is not the kind of accident that happens because people were around somebody important and it was collateral damage or one of their fire crackers malfunctioned and didn't go where the tried for it to go. 
Cheers




Hanlon's Razor is doing a lot of work right now stopping me from calling this Bibi's Reichstag Fire.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
    #28497182 - 10/08/23 11:20 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Just here to follow the shit show :cookiemonster:


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods] * 1
    #28497205 - 10/09/23 12:39 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Israeli editorial nails it






No argument here.

+1

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: gww]
    #28497208 - 10/09/23 12:51 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

gww said:
There is no getting around that killing over 200 civilians at a music festival can not be justified by acts of some government they don't like. They probably killed some of their own in this.  This is not the kind of accident that happens because people were around somebody important and it was collateral damage or one of their fire crackers malfunctioned and didn't go where the tried for it to go. 
Cheers




Civilian deaths on both sides are sickening, over 600 Israeli and close to 400 Palestinian.

The problem though;
High Israeli death tolls are considered shocking.
High Palestinian death tolls are considered normal.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #28497210 - 10/09/23 12:53 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
The problem though;
High Israeli death tolls are considered shocking.
High Palestinian death tolls are considered normal.





The more you tell yourself this the more you'll start to believe it.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
    #28497213 - 10/09/23 12:57 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see that the US Gov goes out of its way to defend Israel even when they are flattening entire apartment buildings full of women and kids

Speaking of flattening apartment buildings, funny how Israel has been given a free pass on this for decades, they are doing it right now as we speak, but if Russia does it then we need to risk WW3 to stop it.





You leave out a very important detail here that makes your entire argument fall apart: Israel lets civilians know they are about to be bombed before they bomb them, giving the citizens time to escape.  Russia doesn't do the whole warning thing, they just bomb the buildings with the civilians inside.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
    #28497216 - 10/09/23 01:03 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
List of US politicians as of 2018 with dual citizenship in Israel



Seems like a large representation from one particular party to me  :shrug:



Lmao so every Jewish person is automatically considered a dual citizen of Israel now and automatically has no agency of themselves and must support expanionist zionism? I hate to break it to you - but it's actually often the case American Jew's themselves do not have an all loving view towards Israel's governments actions. Nor do many people within Israel condone them.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: twighead]
    #28497224 - 10/09/23 01:16 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

So what!
Many Israelis don’t like what their government does to Palestinians.
The U.S. government funds Israel and backs them no matter what atrocities they commit. Explain that while you’re laughing your arse off.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
    #28497225 - 10/09/23 01:19 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
Quote:

Stable Genius said:
The problem though;
High Israeli death tolls are considered shocking.
High Palestinian death tolls are considered normal.





The more you tell yourself this the more you'll start to believe it.




Go find one article where the U.S. government has condemned Israel.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28497227 - 10/09/23 01:26 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
So what!
Many Israelis don’t like what their government does to Palestinians.
.



bruh that's exactly what I just said

It was in response to an image you posted that generalized every single jewish member of congress as 'holding dual citizenship' - and accusing them of holding conflicted interests by merit of ethnicity.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: twighead]
    #28497237 - 10/09/23 02:14 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

I started to like this guy, and still do.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28497254 - 10/09/23 04:06 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)



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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Asante]
    #28497263 - 10/09/23 04:50 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Asante, I think I get it, but right now I’m not sure either party presently at war deserves to be weighed on so opulent a set of scales. Dull it down. WWJD?

News just in: Israel is imposing a “full blockade” of the Gaza Strip. If they’re talking an old school siege that would entail starving the entire population not yet displaced by the aerial strikes. And no where near all of those would be “terrorists”.  I hope they wont do that.

No power in Gaza at present. No food getting in. Where in the fuck are people meant to go? I’m just curious.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Milleresque]
    #28497294 - 10/09/23 06:17 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Milleresque said:
Asante, I think I get it, but right now I’m not sure either party presently at war deserves to be weighed on so opulent a set of scales. Dull it down. WWJD?






WWJD? Remind people to look for the balance in things in deciding which side Fate will be on.

Its exactly in conflicts like this that actions should be weighed on the scales of Justice.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake] * 4
    #28497314 - 10/09/23 06:48 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
Quote:

chopstick said:
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see that the US Gov goes out of its way to defend Israel even when they are flattening entire apartment buildings full of women and kids

Speaking of flattening apartment buildings, funny how Israel has been given a free pass on this for decades, they are doing it right now as we speak, but if Russia does it then we need to risk WW3 to stop it.





You leave out a very important detail here that makes your entire argument fall apart: Israel lets civilians know they are about to be bombed before they bomb them, giving the citizens time to escape.  Russia doesn't do the whole warning thing, they just bomb the buildings with the civilians inside.




“Hey folks, you have 5 minutes to leave your home before we bomb it. Also, we have walled you inside a 25 sq mile area for the last half century, so there is nowhere to go anyway. Good luck!”


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28497320 - 10/09/23 06:55 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
List of US politicians as of 2018 with dual citizenship in Israel



Seems like a large representation from one particular party to me  :shrug:



This is just a straight-up lie.  Why would you post something obviously false like this?  I find it ironic when cryptonazis distinguish themselves from being anti-jew to anti-zionist by saying "not all jews align with Israel."  Then they equate being jewish with being a citizen of Israel with a photo like the one you posted.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #28497329 - 10/09/23 07:16 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Its an old ass dog whistle too. Even older than the state of Israel.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28497396 - 10/09/23 09:00 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Quote:

chopstick said:


If anything, the way that the US is responding to the crisis in Israel just lends even more justification to the Russian operation in Ukraine.





That's one hell of a special pleading.





Lol, more Palestinian civilians are about to die over the next few weeks than have died in the ENTIRE WAR in Ukraine over the past almost 2 years.

And the US Government is going to be clapping and cheering, "Fuck yeah go Israel! Kill all those fuckin' animals!" the whole fucking time.

Of course, I know you are completely incapable as a human being of recognizing any kind of hypocrisy within anything, and you are happy to be one yourself, but for those of us who actually do care, it's obvious that this conflict makes the US position on Ukraine look like a fucking joke.

It's also proof that the Russians have indeed been waging a surgical war designed to reduce civilian casualties as much as possible this whole time.

Israel is about to show the whole world what it actually looks like to go full-on apeshit and kill as many civilians as you can just for the thrill of it. And they will do it to thunderous applause. Because remember, Palestinians aren't actually human, they're just subhuman animals.

The way that Israelis look at Palestinians is no different than how the Nazis viewed Jews. The only reason they aren't rolling out ovens and gas chambers for the Palestinians is because of the outcry it would cause. But apparently, bombing them to rubble is perfectly acceptable.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: chopstick] * 4
    #28497420 - 10/09/23 09:32 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
But apparently, bombing them to rubble is perfectly acceptable.



The utter lack of self-awareness in a post calling out someone for the same.  Astonishing.  Really, Chops, you are special. 

I won't speak for others, but it should be clear that attacking civilians (unprovoked, in retaliation, as a terror method, provoked) by governments and other organized political groups (Hamas, controlled by Iran), is a disgusting tactic and should be dealt with thoroughly.  The fact that anyone thinks it is ever justifiable is disgusting.  When you make excuses for attacks on civilians, you legitimize that tactic to be used both against you, and by your government.  Governments and political rulers should not even be empowered to put criminals to death, let alone civilians. 

    Chops and SG, your continued support for civilian attacks in Ukraine leaves you no right to criticize Israel's treatment of Gaza.  If anything, your views in this seem to be antithetical to your stated reasons for supporting Russia's war.  You support the powerful, well funded nation in its efforts to regain its rightful historical territory through any means necessary, including bombing the citizenry to literal pieces.

Anyone who thinks Hamas has any intentions for the betterment of Palestinians is delusional.  The group is a proxy arm of Iran and Hezbollah, and their primary mission is determined by Iran for the benefit of Iran.  The Palestine people are a good source of recruits for them, largely due to Israel's atrocious and inhumane treatment of them.  When you deny people basic liberty and safety, it makes fertile breeding ground for extremist views.  All that said, Hamas is not concerned with the betterment of Palestinians, and the continued poor treatment of Gaza is beneficial to Hamas as a recruiting tool.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Ice9] * 1
    #28497479 - 10/09/23 10:41 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)



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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
    #28497610 - 10/09/23 12:45 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

chopstick


I know you are completely incapable as a human being of recognizing any kind of hypocrisy within anything, and you are happy to be one yourself, but for those of us who actually do care, it's obvious that this conflict makes the US position on Ukraine look like a fucking . joke.





Interesting that you mentioned hypocrisy. Cheerleading for those that cross geographical lines to attack....FIRST, mind you, you got some projection going on buddy. Also read up on logical fallacies it may temper the meth induced blather. The mental gymnastics required for what you pose, with zero evidence adds the cherry on top.


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Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #28497630 - 10/09/23 12:55 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Egypt warned Netanyahu

https://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-intelligence-official-says-israel-ignored-repeated-warnings-of-something-big/




Good find Koods, that’s actually a massive story. I doubt it’ll get wide traction although I sincerely hope it does.

Makes you wonder why you’d ignore such warnings. Hubris? Or…nah it’s got to be hubris. I bloody hope they hammer Netanyahu with questions over this.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Milleresque] * 1
    #28497650 - 10/09/23 01:24 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

I think it is either hubris or Netanyahu intentionally let this happen so he could destroy Gaza once and for all.
Either is horrible and Netanyahu needs to be replaced ASAP.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
    #28497657 - 10/09/23 01:29 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Conspiracy Nutter mode

This conflict will hurt Biden (can't keep middle east secure :blah: )

Netanyahu and Trump are friends bigly aside from some recent stuff.

The pieces fit :sherlock:


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Ice9]
    #28497685 - 10/09/23 01:55 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Conspiracy nutter mode is that this is a Reichstag fire engineered, or at the very least allowed, by Bibi to justify the upcoming genocide of gaza.

Conspiracy nutter mode also says that Trump giving Russia Israeli intelligence gave Iran the information they needed to pass to Hamas to circumvent the Israeli Iron Dome, as well as the human intelligence networks.

Given both, the outcome would be (a) trump got paid and (b) Bibi justifies a genocide.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Enlil]
    #28497795 - 10/09/23 03:35 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Stable Genius said:
List of US politicians as of 2018 with dual citizenship in Israel



Seems like a large representation from one particular party to me  :shrug:



This is just a straight-up lie.  Why would you post something obviously false like this?  I find it ironic when cryptonazis distinguish themselves from being anti-jew to anti-zionist by saying "not all jews align with Israel."  Then they equate being jewish with being a citizen of Israel with a photo like the one you posted.





So you’re saying all those people listed(except Dianne Feinstein) aren’t dual citizens?
What’s the problem with posting an obviously large number of pro Israel U.S. politicians when people are asking why is the U.S. ALWAYS ready to look the other way when it comes to Israeli aggression?

It’s either correct or it’s not.
Prove its false and I’ll remove it.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #28497808 - 10/09/23 03:46 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Stable Genius said:
List of US politicians as of 2018 with dual citizenship in Israel



Seems like a large representation from one particular party to me  :shrug:



This is just a straight-up lie.  Why would you post something obviously false like this?  I find it ironic when cryptonazis distinguish themselves from being anti-jew to anti-zionist by saying "not all jews align with Israel."  Then they equate being jewish with being a citizen of Israel with a photo like the one you posted.





So you’re saying all those people listed(except Dianne Feinstein) aren’t dual citizens?
What’s the problem with posting an obviously large number of pro Israel U.S. politicians when people are asking why is the U.S. ALWAYS ready to look the other way when it comes to Israeli aggression?

It’s either correct or it’s not.
Prove its false and I’ll remove it.




Okay! no problem! I picked a random name, Sander Levin. Looked him up on wiki. He's Jewish! He was born in Michigan, though :frown:, and he has no citizenship in other countries, :frown:, so it turns out he has no dual citizenship in Israel...

Maury: That, was a lie!

[Crowd goes wild]

Well, I guess I've proven you false, but calling you a straight up liar, while arguably true, is against the forum rules.

So I guess I'll use Hanlon's razor again. Never attribute to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity.

Well, SG, I don't think you were, necessarily, malicious in your efforts to defame the name of Sander Levin. I think you might just be stupid.

Shall we pick another name and do this process again? How about this time, you pick! I'm sure that will be more conducive to your argument. Who, of those that you named as having dual citizenship in the US and Israel, actually has a dual citizenship with Israel? Can you find one?

Edit: to use Hanlon's razor again, if you can't find one: are you, in fact, being stupid? (it's okay to be stupid, I don't judge idiots, my job is to identify idiots and make sure that they are not overwhelmed when we assign responsibilities)

Edited by Kryptos (10/09/23 03:57 PM)

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28497840 - 10/09/23 04:18 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Stable Genius said:
List of US politicians as of 2018 with dual citizenship in Israel



Seems like a large representation from one particular party to me  :shrug:



This is just a straight-up lie.  Why would you post something obviously false like this?  I find it ironic when cryptonazis distinguish themselves from being anti-jew to anti-zionist by saying "not all jews align with Israel."  Then they equate being jewish with being a citizen of Israel with a photo like the one you posted.





So you’re saying all those people listed(except Dianne Feinstein) aren’t dual citizens?
What’s the problem with posting an obviously large number of pro Israel U.S. politicians when people are asking why is the U.S. ALWAYS ready to look the other way when it comes to Israeli aggression?

It’s either correct or it’s not.
Prove its false and I’ll remove it.




That’s just a list of all the Jewish politicians in congress. You have no evidence any of them are dual citizens, and I doubt any of them are. Like usual you are just trafficking in right wing lies. You don’t seem to have any common sense


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28497841 - 10/09/23 04:18 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

I don’t really understand what he’s saying but it seems like someone has his nuts in a vise and they’re slowly turning the handle. :laugh2:

https://twitter.com/officejjsmart/status/1711463902679114219

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods] * 1
    #28497844 - 10/09/23 04:20 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

It bothers me that people like that have NO shame.  They spread misinformation, get called out and corrected on it, and then continue spewing misinformation.  it's a big problem.

Edited by lifeiswhatyoumake (10/09/23 04:20 PM)

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #28497847 - 10/09/23 04:25 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
That’s just a list of all the Jewish politicians in congress. You have no evidence any of them are dual citizens, and I doubt any of them are. Like usual you are just trafficking in right wing lies. You don’t seem to have any common sense




I’ve removed the offending list.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake] * 1
    #28497850 - 10/09/23 04:27 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
It bothers me that people like that have NO shame.  They spread misinformation, get called out and corrected on it, and then continue spewing misinformation.  it's a big problem.




Anyone with a smidgen of integrity admits when they get something wrong.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28497855 - 10/09/23 04:30 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

You didn't do any research before posting it, though.
Stop blindly believing shit.
You're part of the problem.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mycosis]
    #28497861 - 10/09/23 04:33 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

mycosis said:
I don’t really understand what he’s saying but it seems like someone has his nuts in a vise and they’re slowly turning the handle. :laugh2:

https://twitter.com/officejjsmart/status/1711463902679114219




That puffy bitch has late stage kidney disease. Wouldn’t be surprised if he gets dialysis


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NotSheekle said
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Edited by koods (10/09/23 04:34 PM)

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake] * 2
    #28497870 - 10/09/23 04:38 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
You didn't do any research before posting it, though.
Stop blindly believing shit.
You're part of the problem.



Everyone gets something wrong occasionally.

He owned up to it which is a big man thing to do in this forum. :shrug:

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mycosis] * 1
    #28497874 - 10/09/23 04:41 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

True, no one's perfect.
It took two people to call him out before he deleted it, though. 
This is how misinformation spreads.
It takes more energy to disprove misinformation than it does to spread it.
We all need to take more care and be sure to research what we're talking about before we say it.
Words matter.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Milleresque]
    #28497899 - 10/09/23 05:17 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Essential to keep in mind:




--------------------
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
    #28497930 - 10/09/23 05:39 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

U.S. on it's way.  The aircraft carrier and ships, a top of the line aircraft carrier is no small thing and is amazing to me the tech in it.

Israel is civilized,  They are not.  They are in the stone age.  Scorched earth is on its way.  Their military parade made me laugh.

The next month will be tuning into the news about the "war".  Jewish people care about people, they do not.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mycosis] * 1
    #28497941 - 10/09/23 05:47 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

mycosis said:
I don’t really understand what he’s saying but it seems like someone has his nuts in a vise and they’re slowly turning the handle. :laugh2:

https://twitter.com/officejjsmart/status/1711463902679114219




osta molekum? (not sure, some greeting?--I don't speak Chechen, I'm doing my best here)

hello to all (after the intial osta molekum), *sigh*, I wanna *sigh* touch on the topic, *sigh*, that is happening today, on the territory of Palestine and Israel. I want to call for peaceful cooperation*; So that, vitally, people will, for the first time, be respectful to this situation**. 50 years ago, it was the same, there. Especially, especially, I would like to call, upon muslim countries, so they work together, and form a coalition, and called upon their european friends west...[cuts off here midsentence]***

*ya hochu na mirovoe obchest'va, prizyvat'--I would like (un)to peaceful cooperatioon/coexistance (mirovoe obchest'va = peaceful society), call...[all]

**I'm adding more translation than strictly necessary to hit specific words, maybe?. Edit: I'll be honest man, this here is a key phrase and I'm having some trouble with it. I am somewhat out of practice, this is not my dialect, and the more I listen the more I question.

***Probably implying working with their western European friends (?)

---

Nuts in a vice? Nah.

Sobriety? Questionable.

Edited by Kryptos (10/09/23 06:15 PM)

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28498027 - 10/09/23 06:31 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

There will be a ground offensive soon.


--------------------
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Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
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Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28498030 - 10/09/23 06:32 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Yea, seems likely.
Israel has been airstriking Gaza quite hard in the last 24 hours.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
    #28498036 - 10/09/23 06:38 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Those dang hippies should have known better than to be partying so close to so much suffering. :facepalm3:

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mycosis]
    #28498040 - 10/09/23 06:42 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Hamas says it’s gonna start chopping off heads everytime israel bombs something in gaza


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mycosis]
    #28498045 - 10/09/23 06:46 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

mycosis said:
Those dang hippies should have known better than to be partying so close to so much suffering. :facepalm3:




Raver girl keeps filming as she runs in a hail of bullets, climbs over dead bodies and gets shot in the stomach. 

https://reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/s/rRERMko9jb


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #28498095 - 10/09/23 07:30 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

that video is fuckced its like school shootings go jihadist.

i feel like that video could be a grim reality here in a few years maybe sooner just replace hamas militants with maga fatasses. i really hope not tho.

the idea of right winged religious lunatics shooting up a rave/concert really hits home for me. straight up terrorism:sad:

:mad2:


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mushboy]
    #28498105 - 10/09/23 07:40 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

I have heard of all of the  NSFW snuff terrorism videos around. Can't do it....apparently mutilation, rape, beheading are in abundance.

This is indeed a suicide mission from Hamas. Many high ranking Israelis have used the term"rubble" in all of their statements, I believe them. I think everything is on the table but nukes.


--------------------
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Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28498113 - 10/09/23 07:44 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

yea, I also can't do it.
I have put no effort into finding this crazy videos showing the really intimate atrocities like rape or beheadings.
I don't think it would be good for me to see it.
I know what it'll look like.  it'll fuckin' haunt me.

I can handle the bombing videos, though.

Edited by lifeiswhatyoumake (10/09/23 07:45 PM)

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Milleresque] * 1
    #28498125 - 10/09/23 07:48 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Milleresque said:
I just don’t understand what Hamas thought these acts would achieve, other than political support for the Israeli prime minister, who is an abomination. I just don’t get it. Who stands to benefit? What was Hamas end goal here?




Here is my best attempt at answering your questions.

Hamas are now playing in the big league and the ramifications of the raid are more geopolitical than local. The target audience were the sponsors of the Palestinian cause, who up til now had a few options for who to support - PLO, Fatah, Palestinian Islamic Jihad a.s.o. Hamas' military success has established them as the only outfit currently able to hurt Israel and the sponsors will have noticed.

Some Western media made a lot of the fact that the slaughter of the civilians will not look good in the eyes of the liberal West (who traditionally support Palestinians) but this is irrelevant. The West does not financially sponsor Hamas (the way they pump money into other Palestinian bodies) and the loss of "moral" support is of only symbolic value. The real competition is for hard cash which will allow Hamas to grow, and it was never going to come from the US or Germany. So, the goal of Hamas was not to militarily defeat the IDF or even make a political point but rather to take the maximum number of hostages and kill as many other Israelis as possible, to show to everyone that Hamas is the real deal and offers the best return on anti-Israel investments. 

Another aspect which is misunderstood in the West is the perceived brutality of the raid but, again, this can be easily explained. Much like ISIS in its hay day, Hamas is recruiting the frustrated, impoverished Muslim males through the Middle East and beyond with their version of jihad, which ticks all the boxes. It includes camaraderie, common cause, hard training, adventure, pillage, plunder, killing of infidels, rape, slave taking - all this while remaining a respected, pious Muslim. And if you fall while pursuing jihad you will become a martyr and go to heaven - so it is a win, win even then.

It not commonly appreciated (and the Western media will not touch this topic) but Hamas follow the desert warfare manual revealed by the warlord Muhammad in 7th century AD. First liberate the prisoners the other side in holding - thousands were released by Israel in exchange for the captured soldiers or their bodily remains in the past. It is the easiest way to recruit committed fighters. Then use deception to confuse the enemy as to one's true intentions. Attack when least expected and with maximum force, to wipe out the opposition. Take captives - both male and female - for prisoner swaps and also as property, according to Muhammad's instructions. For those who are not aware, Muhammad even clarified that the captured females can be raped only after their period - in case they are already pregnant - so this is a well codified affair.

Many in the West will find this proposition chilling but, again, this unease is conditioned by the cultural norms we have absorbed since childhood. Some contemporary Muslim commentators take a different view and see it as a compassionate act - taking care of the females who have been left without male protection (their men had been killed) and we may have to open up to this alternative view - in the name of tolerance and diversity.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Metoo]
    #28498158 - 10/09/23 08:22 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Metoo said:
It not commonly appreciated (and the Western media will not touch this topic) but Hamas follow the desert warfare manual revealed by the warlord Muhammad in 7th century AD. First liberate the prisoners the other side in holding - thousands were released by Israel in exchange for the captured soldiers or their bodily remains in the past. It is the easiest way to recruit committed fighters. Then use deception to confuse the enemy as to one's true intentions. Attack when least expected and with maximum force, to wipe out the opposition. Take captives - both male and female - for prisoner swaps and also as property, according to Muhammad's instructions. For those who are not aware, Muhammad even clarified that the captured females can be raped only after their period - in case they are already pregnant - so this is a well codified affair.




That sounds like a hell of a stretch. Or at least a combination of basic bitch guerilla warfare tactics and "muh wemenz" hysteria tortured into a significantly anti-islamic take.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Metoo] * 1
    #28498161 - 10/09/23 08:25 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” Netanyahu told his Likud party’s Knesset members in March 2019. “This is part of our strategy.”



From Haaretz

https://x.com/haaretzcom/status/1711329340804186619?s=46&t=NCHEHEdgn4yG76LKXrSTrw




I wonder what he means by that! Oh well


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28498176 - 10/09/23 08:41 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

If you are uncomfortable with my analysis there is an alternative worldview you are free to adopt - as per the closing para of my post.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Metoo]
    #28498256 - 10/09/23 09:47 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Metoo]
    #28498270 - 10/09/23 10:00 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Israel are out of good options now and my prediction is will adopt the least bad one.

If they go ahead with the ground push, refugees will pour into Egypt which would cause mayhem. And force the Saudis to abandon the deal with Israel.

But they have to do enough to save face internally. It may end up with the usual aerial bombing, a few armed incursions on the edges and a new border walls with better sensors. Politically, this is all they will be able to afford.

Hamas have already won - but a heavy handed Israeli response would further extend the margin of victory.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Metoo]
    #28498295 - 10/09/23 10:25 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

I think its way to early to pick definitive winners and losers. The only success  Hamas has "won" is an ambush. The ramifications are still brewing.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28498304 - 10/09/23 10:31 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

I did not mean a military win - this is obviously out of reach of Hamas at this point - but a PR score with those who matter. Paradoxically, from now on Israel's military advances - with the attendant collateral - will get them behind on most counts, not ahead.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Metoo]
    #28498313 - 10/09/23 10:42 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Not sure if Hezbollah will join the party. The raid was clearly not co-ordinated with them - Hamas and Hezbollah compete for the same funding streams. But, given the Hamas success, Hezbollah has to prove its own relevance. They can do their own combined arms operation - takes time to prepare - or seize the opportunity and go in now.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Metoo]
    #28498355 - 10/09/23 11:48 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Metoo said:
Not sure if Hezbollah will join the party. The raid was clearly not co-ordinated with them




Military analyst retired Colonel Darin Gaub does not agree.
Quote:

I was told over 24hrs ago that a senior member of the Iranian army was up in Lebanon helping plan and synchronize all this.






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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28498364 - 10/10/23 12:22 AM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Look, let's all be upfront, I think war with Iran will make Afghanistan look like a cake walk, and that was a disaster.

In a circle of violence and vengeance.

I think Hamas has to target Erdowan to have a pinch of a chance to topple him. Otherwise Gaza will be wiped.

It looks like some in America are chanting and trying to be hawks in neocon style for war with Iran.

So my question is, does anyone here think that war with Iran will be a productive enterprise?

It looks to me like countries without nukes are targeted by those that do.

Be it Russia in Ukraine, or the US when they inevitably invade or strike Iran.

Let's reflect back here when Iran nukes Erdowan.

They'll call it a strike from the gods, a single touch of his power to topple his enemy, at whatever cost. For Allah has willed it.

Quote:

'afeal dhalik li'ana allah 'arad dhalik

allahu akbar





--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


Edited by sudly (10/10/23 12:35 AM)

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28498377 - 10/10/23 12:57 AM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Hamas did not co-ordinate with Hezbollah in a sense that there was no HB attack timed to coincide - this is a matter of record. The Hamas attack was probably created by Iran so no surprise their man was at hand to help run the op.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Metoo]
    #28498385 - 10/10/23 01:17 AM (7 months, 4 days ago)

If my scenario eventuates, mid term we may be looking at the Gaza border becoming a DMZ type setup, with all kinds of walls, fences, trenches, minefields, tunnels, sensors and drones clashing in the middle.

The way I have time for the resourcefulness of the Ukrainians, the raid by Hamas was very, very well put together. It is scary how even modern militaries struggle against raids by commited combatants with hi-tech backup. DARPA's darling, drone swarms, are one answer but Israel do not have them.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Metoo]
    #28498386 - 10/10/23 01:28 AM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Metoo said:
Hamas did not co-ordinate with Hezbollah in a sense that there was no HB attack timed to coincide - this is a matter of record. The Hamas attack was probably created by Iran so no surprise their man was at hand to help run the op.




Yeah... from Lebanon, so they would've known about it.
I'm not saying they were part of the attack force, even though they did send a few rockets over the border on Sunday, in response to Israel sending a few over, which I'm sure you're aware of.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: sudly]
    #28498393 - 10/10/23 02:01 AM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
So my question is, does anyone here think that war with Iran will be a productive enterprise?





My lame brain opinion, if Iran enters the war it WILL quickly escalate to U.S. involvement, and we know how those roosters operate  :awesomenod:

I doubt Israel will nuke anyone,.. unless they're losing.

Russia and Iran are allies.

Russia and Syria are allies. Israel shoots rockets into Syria daily. The U.S. still has troops in Syria helping steal protect Syria's oil.

This has more potential for ww3 than the Ukraine SMO.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Metoo] * 2
    #28498398 - 10/10/23 02:14 AM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Metoo said:
If you are uncomfortable with my analysis there is an alternative worldview you are free to adopt - as per the closing para of my post.




False dichotomy.

Alternative worldview: Hamas uses guerilla war tactics,  against a more and more online world, to great effect.

Your analysis of "Islamic" war tactics, as well as your analysis of "compassionate rape (Islam style)"  can be safely discounted as the, once again, aggressively anti-islamic bullshit that it is. Because both of those fall under traditional guerilla and terror tactics.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28498400 - 10/10/23 02:17 AM (7 months, 4 days ago)

You're on a roll today.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Metoo] * 1
    #28498403 - 10/10/23 02:31 AM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Metoo said:
Hamas did not co-ordinate with Hezbollah in a sense that there was no HB attack timed to coincide - this is a matter of record. The Hamas attack was probably created by Iran so no surprise their man was at hand to help run the op.




https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/09/no-evidence-yet-of-iran-link-to-hamas-attack-says-israeli-military


https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/09/u-s-and-israeli-officials-remain-uncertain-of-iranian-involvement-in-hamas-attack-00120606

Egypt knew. They told Israel. Nothing was done.


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Edited by Milleresque (10/10/23 02:33 AM)

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28498440 - 10/10/23 03:36 AM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Hamas had a special military operation too, but they didn't have the teeth to stick in like the US and Russia.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: sudly]
    #28498451 - 10/10/23 04:12 AM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Yes but they made the most of one bulldozer, a couple of fishing boats and a few ultra lights.
Necessity was truly the mother of all invention… and desperation was the father.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Metoo]
    #28498456 - 10/10/23 04:35 AM (7 months, 4 days ago)

When the dust settles, you think the outright targeting of civilians will be a PR boost to Hamas on any entity not orginially associated with them?

The elememt of suprise is universal and a heralded military strategy.... whether  its to break through, envelop, or outflank an enemy on the battlefield. This could be even be a  feint, or a rouse.

The shock of the above has physical and mental attributes associated with it. Pearl Harbor, the Trogan Horse, Trenton, 9/11, etc. The issue I am having is that suprise must overwhelm, demoralize, and put such an operational strain / morale destroying stake through the heart that victory is in grasp. It must also make a furtherance of successful military operations to commence. What is Hamas gonna do now,...what military operation is now in a better position? Execute those taken hostage?

I don't see it here....I think the vast majority of people will back Israeli efforts and possibly bring those on the fence with them.

Edited by SirTripAlot (10/10/23 04:53 AM)

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28498464 - 10/10/23 04:51 AM (7 months, 4 days ago)

A PR boost? No it’s completely unhinged madness, like that poor girls body in the back of that truck utterly disgusting and sickening.

I guess this is what happens when an entire nation is treated like animals for decades.
I’m not justifying their actions, just questioning and trying to understand why this has happened.



Like that screenshot is just wrong

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #28498481 - 10/10/23 05:39 AM (7 months, 4 days ago)

No doubt, Israel has some soul searching to do. It has come to the point that even Jewish news sites admit this and are highly critical/ want the politics to change regarding Palestine. The status quo gotta change.

So does the rest of the world when it comes to Palestine....this is not just laid at the feet of the Jewish state. Do people realize the Palestinians where kicked out of Jordon and didnt get the West Bank, nothing? The PLO moved to Lebanon....guess what, they didnt stay there either.

How much aid does Palestine get....WTF do they do with it? What about Egypt and their blockade? If the Palestinian authority/ Hamas put as much effort of this attack, into other things....would the Palestinians be in a better position?


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Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Edited by SirTripAlot (10/10/23 05:51 AM)

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28498530 - 10/10/23 07:26 AM (7 months, 4 days ago)



Done with the full blessing of the US government. You know, because Israel is so special.

Hamas mentioned the other day that they only used 2,000 soldiers for the border raid operation, and that they have some 40,000 more in reserve.

This means Hamas still has a lot of fight left in them and that a potential IDF ground operation into the Gaza strip will be exceptionally difficult to pull off. The IDF is not like Wagner, their ground troops are not that experienced and they are used to their air force doing all the heavy lifting. They will take high casualties in such an operation.

Israel should call off the ground operation and just be sated with killing a few thousand "animals" aka civilians via airstrikes. Otherwise they risk both a failed ground operation that will be both costly and embarrassing and they risk Hezbollah joining the war, which they said they would do incase of a ground operation, and would be nothing short of a catastrophe. Israel will have a very difficult time fighting a war on multiple fronts.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: sudly] * 2
    #28498538 - 10/10/23 07:37 AM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Look, let's all be upfront, I think war with Iran will make Afghanistan look like a cake walk, and that was a disaster.

In a circle of violence and vengeance.

I think Hamas has to target Erdowan to have a pinch of a chance to topple him. Otherwise Gaza will be wiped.

It looks like some in America are chanting and trying to be hawks in neocon style for war with Iran.

So my question is, does anyone here think that war with Iran will be a productive enterprise?

It looks to me like countries without nukes are targeted by those that do.

Be it Russia in Ukraine, or the US when they inevitably invade or strike Iran.

Let's reflect back here when Iran nukes Erdowan.

They'll call it a strike from the gods, a single touch of his power to topple his enemy, at whatever cost. For Allah has willed it.

Quote:

'afeal dhalik li'ana allah 'arad dhalik

allahu akbar








Every fundamentalist extremist regime, to whatever degree it's appropriate to use those terms, has to fight on at least two fronts. Their first problem is always keeping people on the ground in their own country under control. War is a great way to do lots of things to handle that situation, from paying restless young men to follow orders to forcing civilians to declare their loyalty. It's the ultimate "shut up, your problems aren't important right now, we can talk about who runs things after I'm done running this war" type of move. It rallies the base and forces the dissidents in a corner. Sometimes it blows up and leads to a regime change, but it's often the only viable move for men who know nothing but violence, corruption, and subjugation.

Also, never forget, in any conflict there are people making a killing on arms sales and military supply.

Like the US and Russia, the US and Iran have gotten tremendous mileage out of rattling sabres at each other and fighting proxy wars. I don’t really see it progressing past that for now, as there's not much benefit. Iran knows that a nuke would be a suicide attack for their regime. The US has always known that it doesn't want to occupy Persia. A boogeyman with some military might and political stability is an OK deal for the hawks. It's worth a lot of money in defense contracting. Yelling about war with Iran at a time like this is great political theater, though. Most of their base remember the hostage crisis, and bought those Mickey Mouse "Fuck You, Iran" bumper stickers.

The Israeli blockade and occupation (and Egypt's fuckwaddery) created fertile ground for Hamas to take over political life in Gaza. But Hamas still doesn't have much reach, or much of a future. So they're the perfect nihilistic aggressor to funnel money and arms to, while you remain "not at war."

This is all like El Salvador or Nicaragua in the 80's. There's no real point to any of it, and no "clean" outcome where one side gets what they want.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven] * 1
    #28498556 - 10/10/23 08:08 AM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Well said.


Also think it’s important to note that virtually every military/resistance group of Palestine is/was participating in this offensive, from Hamas, to Islamic Jihad, to Marxist-Leninist factions.

But Hamas has the highest negative word association with the whites so that’s the noun we’re going with. Just look at the thread title.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
    #28498636 - 10/10/23 09:48 AM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:





Obviously necessary, all those pesky human shields and what not.
sarcasm, for those of you unaware of my previous criticisms of choppie here


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Ice9] * 1
    #28498828 - 10/10/23 01:22 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
When the dust settles, you think the outright targeting of civilians will be a PR boost to Hamas on any entity not orginially associated with them?

The elememt of suprise is universal and a heralded military strategy.... whether  its to break through, envelop, or outflank an enemy on the battlefield. This could be even be a  feint, or a rouse.

The shock of the above has physical and mental attributes associated with it. Pearl Harbor, the Trogan Horse, Trenton, 9/11, etc. The issue I am having is that suprise must overwhelm, demoralize, and put such an operational strain / morale destroying stake through the heart that victory is in grasp. It must also make a furtherance of successful military operations to commence. What is Hamas gonna do now,...what military operation is now in a better position? Execute those taken hostage?

I don't see it here....I think the vast majority of people will back Israeli efforts and possibly bring those on the fence with them.




My post one page back was in response to the forum questions about the goals of Hamas. To your point - their goal was not to impress the Western world with their civility and war ethics but rather to give the sponsors a bang for their buck. And to secure new funding from the donation pool available worldwide for jihad, in its various forms.

Given how deadly effective the raid was Metoo thinks that money will pour in from both the traditional sponsors of Hamas, as well as those who up til now preferred to support other jihadist outfits like Taliban or Boko Haram. I will repeat what I said before - this show was not for the West and it is borderline irrelevant that our sensitivities were triggered. This bit is really easy.

What is harder to integrate from our cultural perspective is that, beyond capturing and killing as many Israelis as possible, Hamas do not need to achieve any military success for their gig to be a legendary, morale-building win for the jihadi cause. You think in terms of a military operation, which would need to achieve a breakthrough, outflank the enemy etc. But jihad is a process and its proponents have both time and massive social, religious and cultural backing to keep going - generation after generation. What makes this clash truely asymmetric is that, to the leadership of Hamas holed up in the hotels Quatar, both the Israeli and Palestinian casualties are a PR win, whereas for the Israeli side they are both a loss.

On the Western media game. It started 90% for Israel but as the movies of killings ran out they got replaced by the footage of bombs falling on Gaza so around 50/50 now. There will be no more new phone clips from the rave concert or Ashkelon but the other ones will keep coming, so there is only one way this PR battle is going.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28498876 - 10/10/23 02:02 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:

False dichotomy.

Alternative worldview: Hamas uses guerilla war tactics,  against a more and more online world, to great effect.

Your analysis of "Islamic" war tactics, as well as your analysis of "compassionate rape (Islam style)"  can be safely discounted as the, once again, aggressively anti-islamic bullshit that it is. Because both of those fall under traditional guerilla and terror tactics.




You seem to be implying that the "compassionate rape" things is my analysis but it is not. When I first read the chilling passages in which Muhammad gave detailed instruction when and how it is ok to have sex with the captured females I was shocked and looked for the contemporary Muslim perspective. This is where I came across the the argument that it was in fact a compassionate act - their husbands had just been killed so these women were available.

Since you are showing interest in the subject - there is a separate scriptural debate about the women whose husbands had not been killed but rather captured. Here, also, Muhammad gave very clear instructions how to proceed:

FROM THE HADITH OF THE SUNAN OF ABU DAWUD, VOLUME 2, # 2150:

Abu Said al-Khudri said:  "The apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain.  They met their enemy and fought with them.  They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Quranic verse, "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess".  That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period."  [The Quran verse is 4:24].

[Metoo: this para is pulled from the website, not my analysis]: The note on this Hadith says that "After the distribution of the spoils of war a man may have intercourse with the female slave after passing one menstrual period, if she is not pregnant.  If she is pregnant one should wait till she delivers the child.  This is the view held by Malik, al-Shafi and Abu Thawr.  Abu Hanifah holds that if both the husband and wife are captivated together, their marriage tie still continues; they will not be separated.  According to the majority of scholars, they will be separated.  Al-Awzai maintains that their marriage tie will continue till they remain part of the spoils of war.  If a man buys them, he may separate them if he desires, and cohabit with the female slave after one menstrual period.

https://answeringislam.org/Silas/femalecaptives.htm

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
    #28498943 - 10/10/23 02:56 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:


Done with the full blessing of the US government. You know, because Israel is so special.

Hamas mentioned the other day that they only used 2,000 soldiers for the border raid operation, and that they have some 40,000 more in reserve.

This means Hamas still has a lot of fight left in them and that a potential IDF ground operation into the Gaza strip will be exceptionally difficult to pull off. The IDF is not like Wagner, their ground troops are not that experienced and they are used to their air force doing all the heavy lifting. They will take high casualties in such an operation.

Israel should call off the ground operation and just be sated with killing a few thousand "animals" aka civilians via airstrikes. Otherwise they risk both a failed ground operation that will be both costly and embarrassing and they risk Hezbollah joining the war, which they said they would do incase of a ground operation, and would be nothing short of a catastrophe. Israel will have a very difficult time fighting a war on multiple fronts.




Yeah, a completely unprovoked attack. It would have been better to have a circle of restoration and maybe banter in a focus group. I am certain, if someone started chopping heads in your hometown, you would advocate a more kind, gentle approach.:cookiemonster:


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I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
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Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot] * 2
    #28498961 - 10/10/23 03:11 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Fuck all this painting with a broad brush.

It's stupid.

"Israel" and "Gaza" are effectively the same place. Lots of people on both sides of that arbitrary line hate their governments, especially right now. How safe it is to express that thought, or disobey military orders, is another matter.

There is no one "contemporary Muslim thought" any more than there's one "contemporary Christian" or "contemporary Jewish" thought. Hamas didn't develop and take over Gaza on the strength of an old religious text. They didn't decide to commit atrocities because the Koran said it was OK. Their hatred and malice metastasized under a situation that would push most people to extremes. Everyone makes up an ancient-sounding reason to justify their bullshit. And if parts of the Muslim world are supporting this madness, that too stems from anti-colonial resentment and global geopolitics. People have used both the Bible and the Koran to justify pretty much whatever they want. Even Buddhists have pulled shit like that.

Regardless of what might be "warranted" as response, we all know they'll go completely overboard. With the explicit support of the US government.


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Edited by B Traven (10/10/23 03:26 PM)

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven]
    #28499053 - 10/10/23 04:34 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

B Traven said:
There is no one "contemporary Muslim thought" any more than there's one "contemporary Christian" or "contemporary Jewish" thought. 




Agreed - relying on a single source of information is a trap and so I consulted many analyses, supporting differing viewpoints. The post above references the opinions of a few Muslim scholars who vary in their interpretation of Muhammad's instructions. Some believe that the captured women whose husbands are alive can be raped straight after their period while others claim that they have to be sold first. Some also take the view that the marriage bonds these women were under automatically dissolve when the captives are taken to a Muslim country and they can be raped then. So yes, there is a diversity of opinions and I have clearly outlined it.

Quote:

B Traven said:
Hamas didn't develop and take over Gaza on the strength of an old religious text. They didn't decide to commit atrocities because the Koran said it was OK.





Here I also agree - partially. The jihad warriors we see in the videos have been fucked by Israel for decades and their root motivation is absolute frustration. The religious framework supporting what they do adds another dimension of purpose to the project, though - and gives an after-life insurance policy in case they get martyred. And yes, the Christian crusaders were exactly the same.

But the financial backers of the global jihad operate differently. They are well educated, cultured, devout and use their funds to support the interpretation of Islam which aligns with their own views. In the case of the Saudi Wahhabis, this is a very scripture-based approach - remember that they only officially abolished slavery in 1962. The Islamic State structure was explicitly and entirely based on the warring doctrine of Muhammad - thousands of the captured Yazidi women attest to it. This is not a culturally insensitive beat up by the Western racists - their country was actually run on this sick software, for as long as it lasted.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Metoo] * 1
    #28499063 - 10/10/23 04:40 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Metoo said:The post above references the opinions of a few Muslim scholars who vary in their interpretation of Muhammad's instructions. Some believe that the captured women whose husbands are alive can be raped straight after their period while others claim that they have to be sold first. Some also take the view that the marriage bonds these women were under automatically dissolve when the captives are taken to a Muslim country and they can be raped then.






Geeze, imagine talking to your brothers and sisters about this and figuring out if it's more moral to rape a woman before or after she's sold into slavery.  Animals.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Metoo] * 2
    #28499138 - 10/10/23 05:22 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Metoo said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:

False dichotomy.

Alternative worldview: Hamas uses guerilla war tactics,  against a more and more online world, to great effect.

Your analysis of "Islamic" war tactics, as well as your analysis of "compassionate rape (Islam style)"  can be safely discounted as the, once again, aggressively anti-islamic bullshit that it is. Because both of those fall under traditional guerilla and terror tactics.




You seem to be implying that the "compassionate rape" things is my analysis but it is not. When I first read the chilling passages in which Muhammad gave detailed instruction when and how it is ok to have sex with the captured females I was shocked and looked for the contemporary Muslim perspective. This is where I came across the the argument that it was in fact a compassionate act - their husbands had just been killed so these women were available.

Since you are showing interest in the subject - there is a separate scriptural debate about the women whose husbands had not been killed but rather captured. Here, also, Muhammad gave very clear instructions how to proceed:

FROM THE HADITH OF THE SUNAN OF ABU DAWUD, VOLUME 2, # 2150:

Abu Said al-Khudri said:  "The apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain.  They met their enemy and fought with them.  They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Quranic verse, "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess".  That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period."  [The Quran verse is 4:24].

[Metoo: this para is pulled from the website, not my analysis]: The note on this Hadith says that "After the distribution of the spoils of war a man may have intercourse with the female slave after passing one menstrual period, if she is not pregnant.  If she is pregnant one should wait till she delivers the child.  This is the view held by Malik, al-Shafi and Abu Thawr.  Abu Hanifah holds that if both the husband and wife are captivated together, their marriage tie still continues; they will not be separated.  According to the majority of scholars, they will be separated.  Al-Awzai maintains that their marriage tie will continue till they remain part of the spoils of war.  If a man buys them, he may separate them if he desires, and cohabit with the female slave after one menstrual period.

https://answeringislam.org/Silas/femalecaptives.htm




My point is that your choice to use Muhammad's writings on rape, but not, for example, the (ordered by Greek commanders) mass rape of Trojans, is intended to have a very specific effect, best described as "Islamophobic".

However, a comparison between the above, including waiting, and the orders given to Greek soldiers during the sack of Troy, for example, actually does kinda make Islam seem more compassionate.

Quote:

As Professor Kathy L. Gaca, an authority on ancient sexual violence puts it, evidence from the 8th century B.C.E indicates that martial rape was a top-down part of the orders given. It was integral to waging warfare, not a “boys will be boys” accompaniment to war. For instance, in the Iliad, Agamemnon’s most senior adviser, Nestor, threatens the Achaean Greek soldiers with death if they try to go home before “properly” conquering Troy, meaning raping Trojan women: “Therefore let none make haste to go till he has first lain with the wife of some Trojan” - Iliad 2.354-359




Guerilla tactics and using rape as a weapon of war has nothing to do with Islam. The way you describe it, Hamas invented both the sneak attack and the idea of raping female captives.

Edit: I could also point out, for example, that Islamic law prohibits fucking with the civilian food supply during war and poisoning wells, something that Israel (clearly) has no problem doing, since they have cut off all food supplies to Gaza.

Edited by Kryptos (10/10/23 05:32 PM)

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven] * 1
    #28499191 - 10/10/23 06:05 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Iran knows that a nuke would be a suicide attack for their regime. 




It'll make one hell of a jihad!


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: sudly]
    #28499195 - 10/10/23 06:07 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

He’s right though that’s why North Korea doesn’t exist anymore.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28499231 - 10/10/23 06:36 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

mycosis said:
Those dang hippies should have known better than to be partying so close to so much suffering. :facepalm3:




Raver girl keeps filming as she runs in a hail of bullets, climbs over dead bodies and gets shot in the stomach. 

https://reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/s/rRERMko9jb




Interview with girl in this video. She was actually shot in the leg and caught grenade shrapnel in her stomach.

https://twitter.com/onhivng2/status/1711764365517709625?s=46&t=v6A7MSXUAx3KM0glMf5Wdg


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods] * 1
    #28499240 - 10/10/23 06:43 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

It's getting harder and harder to just have a good time. :facepalm3:

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mycosis] * 1
    #28499298 - 10/10/23 07:33 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Israeli’s defence minister has “released all restraints on troops”…whatever the hell that means. The US says that Israel won’t be actually be adopting the definition of a siege, and they’ve “had talks with the Israeli government about this”.

Don’t make me laugh and fall off my chair! I hope it doesn’t occur, but I suspect Israeli troops have been told “it’s a free fire zone” (that would fit the definition of releasing all restraints on your soldiers) and anyone trapped there as Egypt has closed its border to fleeing Palestinians…will be murdered.

This is shaping up to look a little like a project in potential genocide under the cover of war. Again I hope not, with everything I am, but the dark ultra Orthodox Jews now in power in the Netanyahu government have the best opportunity to lay waste, once and for all, to the notion of a two state solution.

We live in eden and make it hell for one another. A plague on Hamas and a plague on Netanyahu and his monsters.

Fuck.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Milleresque]
    #28499311 - 10/10/23 07:40 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

I really hope that doesn't happen, but you might be right.
It's always worth it to try to save every innocent life.
It's hard, but it's the right thing to do.

I mean, all Israel has to do is keep freakin' military at the border to watch out for attacks.  The more this goes on the more I feel like Israel purposely allowed their defenses to lower so they can justify this potential genocide.  It's just way too much of a failure to not be intentional.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Milleresque] * 1
    #28499315 - 10/10/23 07:42 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Milleresque said:
This is shaping up to look a little like a project in potential genocide under the cover of war.




Nothing potential about it.

This is something I see with Ukraine, considering my exposure to media of both sides, where you start to pick up on small things. For example, I read an article the other day where the headline was something like "98 killed in Hamas Raid, 197 dead in Gaza"

What's the difference between "killed" and "dead"? What do those words imply? Which one has agency, and which one is a passive description of the situation? Why?

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28499333 - 10/10/23 07:54 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

They say they’ve got a secret weapon and if Israel doesn’t quittit they’re gonna use it. :crankey:

https://twitter.com/Sprinter99800/status/1711893400738287659

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mycosis]
    #28499389 - 10/10/23 08:36 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

I just saw a news report that headlined : "" US intelligence hunts for evidence of Iranian involvement in Hamas attack .""
    My first thought was that they are literally posting pictures of Iranian missiles the size of king kings dick on social media .


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Psilynut2]
    #28499451 - 10/10/23 09:57 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

They also used primarily AR-15 pattern rifles, does this mean that the US is definitively involved in the attack as well?

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #28499466 - 10/10/23 10:18 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Ya your right bro Iranian  weapons manufactures are probably selling those things in the side of the road to anyone .
    Or maybe you can just order all the parts online and put one together yourself , like an ar15 .

  If Hamas had used Himars in their attack would you assume they got them somewhere other than the US govt ?


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Edited by Psilynut2 (10/10/23 10:34 PM)

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Psilynut2]
    #28499487 - 10/10/23 10:54 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

If Hamas had used HIMARS I would assume that they were diverted from a shipment to Ukraine. I would not assume that the US supplied the rockets directly and willingly.

While Iran likely does want to arm Hamas, I really don't think they'd be stupid enough to do it directly in a world full of arms dealers and a major war of attrition in Europe, where war materials can quietly disappear and people won't notice.

Actually, having written all of that out...I would assume that these were rockets diverted from the Russian war effort, maybe.

Either way, as with my response to Metoo above, it seems that you are not equally applying your standard across the board. If the presence of Iranian designed weapons can be assumed evidence of Iranian involvement, why does the presence of US designed weapons not imply the same?

If US weapons can be acquired without the explicit blessing of the US, why would that not be true for Iran? Both the US and Iran have robust weapons industries and both countries are prolific exporters of weapons, often through vaguely criminal intermediaries.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28499489 - 10/10/23 10:58 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

I would not be surprised at all if Russia supported this attack. Seems exactly like the kind of fuckery they would get involved in


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods] * 3
    #28499539 - 10/11/23 12:41 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I would not be surprised at all if Russia supported this attack. Seems exactly like the kind of fuckery they would get involved in




I was waiting for this. Not from anyone in particular, but I knew it would happen. Koods, you won’t accept any of the “conspiracies” vis a vis the US backing, funding and delivering the various coups and geopolitical pressure that resulted in the present European quagmire (despite a near century long history of US foreign policy, including assassination, the training of death squads and the overthrowing of democratically elected governments)….

But it’s russias doing that Hamas did this? They instructed and/or funded and/or promoted this attack?Somehow Russia also ensured Israeli intelligence and defence was looking the other way. It’s  perfect!  and it all makes sense!

Give me a single credible source for that chain of suppositions, please. I’m laughing.

I’d be looking at US involvement before a single other foreign power. Not for involvement in Hama’s horrific attack, but the background of decades, of policies, of a distinct failure to rebuff or admonish the decidedly apartheid regime Israel has perpetrated over the Palestinian people.

Russia doesn’t even factor in this. It’s not their fault US involvement results in so much instability and degradation. But yes, I’m sure Putin is enjoying a quiet chuckle right now.



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Edited by Milleresque (10/11/23 12:48 AM)

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Offlinetwighead
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28499546 - 10/11/23 12:57 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
If Hamas had used HIMARS I would assume that they were diverted from a shipment to Ukraine. I would not assume that the US supplied the rockets directly and willingly.

While Iran likely does want to arm Hamas, I really don't think they'd be stupid enough to do it directly in a world full of arms dealers and a major war of attrition in Europe, where war materials can quietly disappear and people won't notice.

Actually, having written all of that out...I would assume that these were rockets diverted from the Russian war effort, maybe.

Either way, as with my response to Metoo above, it seems that you are not equally applying your standard across the board. If the presence of Iranian designed weapons can be assumed evidence of Iranian involvement, why does the presence of US designed weapons not imply the same?

If US weapons can be acquired without the explicit blessing of the US, why would that not be true for Iran? Both the US and Iran have robust weapons industries and both countries are prolific exporters of weapons, often through vaguely criminal intermediaries.



The analysis is good n' all but it's fact that Hamas receives the majority of their funding via Iran since 2006 when Saudi Arabia bailed on them.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #28499701 - 10/11/23 07:00 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I would not be surprised at all if Russia supported this attack. Seems exactly like the kind of fuckery they would get involved in



There are reports captured US "trophy" weapons were transfered from Russia to HAMAS for this attack to undermine the US arming Ukraine. :shrug:


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28499710 - 10/11/23 07:16 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

. If the presence of Iranian designed weapons can be assumed evidence of Iranian involvement, why does the presence of US designed weapons not imply the same?



 
    Because you comparing rifles that any of us can purchase parts for and assemble at home to a giant sophisticated missile that has to be stolen and looks impossible to hide .
    How the fuck are you going to steal a missile so large it needs a giant truck to be driven around on from Iran and then get it to Palestine with no one noticing ?
  You aren't applying the most basic level of rational thought to this .

    You really think the us or Iran could lose equipment like that without knowing exactly where it is ?


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods] * 1
    #28499715 - 10/11/23 07:29 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I would not be surprised at all if Russia supported this attack. Seems exactly like the kind of fuckery they would get involved in




I think Putin and North Korea and Venezuela and Cuba and Iran teamed up in their secret volcano lair to launch the most diabolical plan against Israel ever formulated (paraglide out of Gaza because Bibi ignored Egypt’s warning).

Sounds exactly like the type of thing I’d make up in my head.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Ice9] * 1
    #28499718 - 10/11/23 07:30 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
Quote:

koods said:
I would not be surprised at all if Russia supported this attack. Seems exactly like the kind of fuckery they would get involved in



There are reports captured US "trophy" weapons were transfered from Russia to HAMAS for this attack to undermine the US arming Ukraine. :shrug:




That’s ridiculous though because how could there be blowback from US military involvement?

If there’s precedent for this, I’m sorry, I was born 4 days ago.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
    #28499725 - 10/11/23 07:39 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Hezbollah is exchanging fire with Israel on the border with Lebanon. If Hezbollah chooses to increase their engagement it could be a major factor.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28499729 - 10/11/23 07:40 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Come on now.

I'm sure Hamas ordered the missiles from AliExpress, like anyone would.

Or, at least anyone in Gaza. Because Amazon doesn't offer free Prime shipping there.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #28499749 - 10/11/23 08:01 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

I think the idea was to make it appear that the US supply lines to Ukraine were a threat to global stability due to their "leakiness" or that Ukraine was directly re-selling the weapons on the black market.  I guess?  I suspect the weapons got there because Russia sold or traded captured weapons to Iranian arms dealers, for drones and what not, who then resold to Hamas, which is a way simpler explanation than this was some type of Russia galaxy brain move. :shrug:


Ectstatic, I appreciate that you just don't tell people they are an "idiot for believing" something they post with words "I read, I heard. there are reports etc." that indicate the poster is just relaying information.  It is really nice having a back and forth with someone who has basic reading comprehension down pat.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Ice9] * 2
    #28499751 - 10/11/23 08:06 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

I think that’s a reasonable explanation. There have been reports of Ukrainians selling weapons on the black market for over a year now.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28499789 - 10/11/23 08:47 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Without a doubt people in Ukraine are selling arms meant for their conflict.  Corruption is still a major concern there.  I would also expect some of those could have ended up in Hamas hands.

https://nordicmonitor.com/2023/05/isis-arms-trafficker-says-ukraine-army-earned-67-million-profit-annually-by-selling-old-arms/


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: twighead] * 1
    #28499924 - 10/11/23 10:39 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
If Hamas had used HIMARS I would assume that they were diverted from a shipment to Ukraine. I would not assume that the US supplied the rockets directly and willingly.

While Iran likely does want to arm Hamas, I really don't think they'd be stupid enough to do it directly in a world full of arms dealers and a major war of attrition in Europe, where war materials can quietly disappear and people won't notice.

Actually, having written all of that out...I would assume that these were rockets diverted from the Russian war effort, maybe.

Either way, as with my response to Metoo above, it seems that you are not equally applying your standard across the board. If the presence of Iranian designed weapons can be assumed evidence of Iranian involvement, why does the presence of US designed weapons not imply the same?

If US weapons can be acquired without the explicit blessing of the US, why would that not be true for Iran? Both the US and Iran have robust weapons industries and both countries are prolific exporters of weapons, often through vaguely criminal intermediaries.



The analysis is good n' all but it's fact that Hamas receives the majority of their funding via Iran since 2006 when Saudi Arabia bailed on them.




Israel receives the majority of their funding via the US. Is it the fault of the US when some random IDF commando decides to execute a few Palestinian kids on the other side of the fence?

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Psilynut2]
    #28499938 - 10/11/23 10:46 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

. If the presence of Iranian designed weapons can be assumed evidence of Iranian involvement, why does the presence of US designed weapons not imply the same?



 
    Because you comparing rifles that any of us can purchase parts for and assemble at home to a giant sophisticated missile that has to be stolen and looks impossible to hide .
    How the fuck are you going to steal a missile so large it needs a giant truck to be driven around on from Iran and then get it to Palestine with no one noticing ?
  You aren't applying the most basic level of rational thought to this .

    You really think the us or Iran could lose equipment like that without knowing exactly where it is ?




Yes, I do. Because if the missile was so giant and impossible to hide, how TF did ~3000 of them get through the Israeli blockade for the purposes of this attack?

I will tell you how. Mostly paraphrasing a NYT article I read a few days back: Iran sells ten missiles to an intermediary, which claims that only nine missiles work, and sells those nine to Russia, while sending parts of one to Hamas. Iran probably knows that their weapons are being diverted, much like we know that US weapon shipments routinely get diverted, but they probably don't care. Missiles are assembled by specialists in Palestine, and stockpiled for attacks.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28499957 - 10/11/23 10:57 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

. If the presence of Iranian designed weapons can be assumed evidence of Iranian involvement, why does the presence of US designed weapons not imply the same?



 
    Because you comparing rifles that any of us can purchase parts for and assemble at home to a giant sophisticated missile that has to be stolen and looks impossible to hide .
    How the fuck are you going to steal a missile so large it needs a giant truck to be driven around on from Iran and then get it to Palestine with no one noticing ?
  You aren't applying the most basic level of rational thought to this .

    You really think the us or Iran could lose equipment like that without knowing exactly where it is ?




Yes, I do. Because if the missile was so giant and impossible to hide, how TF did ~3000 of them get through the Israeli blockade for the purposes of this attack?



Do you have a source for the claim that 3000 missiles were used in the attack?


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28499959 - 10/11/23 10:58 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

twighead said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
If Hamas had used HIMARS I would assume that they were diverted from a shipment to Ukraine. I would not assume that the US supplied the rockets directly and willingly.

While Iran likely does want to arm Hamas, I really don't think they'd be stupid enough to do it directly in a world full of arms dealers and a major war of attrition in Europe, where war materials can quietly disappear and people won't notice.

Actually, having written all of that out...I would assume that these were rockets diverted from the Russian war effort, maybe.

Either way, as with my response to Metoo above, it seems that you are not equally applying your standard across the board. If the presence of Iranian designed weapons can be assumed evidence of Iranian involvement, why does the presence of US designed weapons not imply the same?

If US weapons can be acquired without the explicit blessing of the US, why would that not be true for Iran? Both the US and Iran have robust weapons industries and both countries are prolific exporters of weapons, often through vaguely criminal intermediaries.



The analysis is good n' all but it's fact that Hamas receives the majority of their funding via Iran since 2006 when Saudi Arabia bailed on them.




Israel receives the majority of their funding via the US. Is it the fault of the US when some random IDF commando decides to execute a few Palestinian kids on the other side of the fence?




Yes, but it’s not like the Palestinian Authority can then go air strike the United States the way Israel does Iran.

People making these analogies without pointing out the massive power disparity between the involved parties is being disingenuous.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Enlil]
    #28499973 - 10/11/23 11:04 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

. If the presence of Iranian designed weapons can be assumed evidence of Iranian involvement, why does the presence of US designed weapons not imply the same?



 
    Because you comparing rifles that any of us can purchase parts for and assemble at home to a giant sophisticated missile that has to be stolen and looks impossible to hide .
    How the fuck are you going to steal a missile so large it needs a giant truck to be driven around on from Iran and then get it to Palestine with no one noticing ?
  You aren't applying the most basic level of rational thought to this .

    You really think the us or Iran could lose equipment like that without knowing exactly where it is ?




Yes, I do. Because if the missile was so giant and impossible to hide, how TF did ~3000 of them get through the Israeli blockade for the purposes of this attack?



Do you have a source for the claim that 3000 missiles were used in the attack?




https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-israel-was-duped-hamas-planned-devastating-assault-2023-10-08/

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28499979 - 10/11/23 11:06 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

One thing I will say is this:

If Hamas wanted their attacks to carry a degree of nuance with the Western world, they should’ve joined the Waffen SS.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28499981 - 10/11/23 11:08 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Cool link, but I asked for one that supports your claim that 3000 missiles were used...not 3000 rockets. Psily was specifically talking about these:



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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Enlil]
    #28499987 - 10/11/23 11:12 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

i researched that pic the other day and only found an anti tank weapon with the name used for that big ass bitch mentioned in that post.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mushboy]
    #28499998 - 10/11/23 11:20 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Why are people doing war stuff all thw time now why are members here once again supporting war crimes and terror stuff :mad2:

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Enlil]
    #28500000 - 10/11/23 11:21 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Cool link, but I asked for one that supports your claim that 3000 missiles were used...not 3000 rockets. Psily was specifically talking about these:





What is that like a scud missle I wonder where that came from if it's even real :rolleyes:

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Enlil]
    #28500004 - 10/11/23 11:24 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Cool link, but I asked for one that supports your claim that 3000 missiles were used...not 3000 rockets. Psily was specifically talking about these:






I can't find any evidence of something like that being used at all.

Now, I'm no expert, but that looks a lot like a Shahab 3 MRBM, with a range of approximately 2,000 km. The distance between Palestine and Jerusalem, on the other side of Israel, is 77km. Seems like a waste.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28500005 - 10/11/23 11:25 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

because its the way of things? war stuff is always happening.

people here commit crimes all day long. do you really expect everyone to share the same moral framework?

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28500006 - 10/11/23 11:25 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

You're the one who said 3,000 of them were.  :shrug:


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Enlil]
    #28500010 - 10/11/23 11:28 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

That thing seems like over kill for a tank.

But I’ve gotta admit the Palestinian amateur rocketry club has come a long way in the last decade.
They’ve increased their range and accuracy immensely.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28500020 - 10/11/23 11:40 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

much like we know that US weapon shipments routinely get diverted,




  Routinely ? I imagine some weapons get misplaced or lost over the years but  you're saying it happens regularly ?  Do you have any evidence of that claim .  Especially something relating to large equipment you can't just throw in the back of a truck .
  I  was talking specifically about the giant missile in the picture . That isn't something you're going to get out of Iran and into Palestine without the Iranian govts help .


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Enlil]
    #28500022 - 10/11/23 11:42 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Umm, thats not exactly what rocket brigades use. They A-Team their missiles from drain pipe, fuel and fertilizer.

What these rockets don't really have is a target, unlike a weapons system. They are shot in the general direction of a city and in the last decade or so, they increasingly often hit the city they were aimed at.

This is how you got very many rockets fired and a total death toll of a couple dozen from these rockets.

They infiltrated american hobby rocket clubs to acquire the technology.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Psilynut2]
    #28500041 - 10/11/23 12:00 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
You're the one who said 3,000 of them were.  :shrug:




Clearly they weren't. So, the lack of Iranian missiles being used by Hamas is now evidence of Iranian support for Hamas?

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

much like we know that US weapon shipments routinely get diverted,




  Routinely ? I imagine some weapons get misplaced or lost over the years but  you're saying it happens regularly ?  Do you have any evidence of that claim .  Especially something relating to large equipment you can't just throw in the back of a truck .
  I  was talking specifically about the giant missile in the picture . That isn't something you're going to get out of Iran and into Palestine without the Iranian govts help .




It's a big enough problem that the US government has a dedicated action plan.

I'm guessing that the government won't actually announce what percent of weapons get misplaced. For reasons that are pretty obvious.

Having done some more looking at that picture, and some more searching, That looks a lot like a Yemeni flag, no?

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mycosis] * 1
    #28500042 - 10/11/23 12:01 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

mycosis said:

But I’ve gotta admit the Palestinian amateur rocketry club has come a long way in the last decade.
They’ve increased their range and accuracy immensely.





I saw this:






and, i abhor the terrorist act ok!!, but in the initial seconds of seeing that not knowing of the war, the former rocket boy I was, recognized what a long way they have come.

Lightning fast launch removes the rocket from the launch site, now a target, supersonic stable flight, straight trajectory, its a spectacle for their fellows to admire, instead of the fail rockets of decades past.

Impressive for a group of locals with a photocopied manual in a highly restricted land.


doesn't mean i endorse it but, they clearly evolved lots.

As building rockets goes, this is pretty much the tits.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Asante] * 4
    #28500047 - 10/11/23 12:10 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Digging secret tunnels and launching home made rockets!

All the things we dreamed of as young boys! :naughty:

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mycosis] * 2
    #28500079 - 10/11/23 12:44 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

NYT: US intelligence shows Iranian officials surprised by Hamas attack.

Quote:

The United States has collected multiple pieces of intelligence that show that key Iranian leaders were surprised by the Hamas attack in Israel, information that has fueled U.S. doubts that Iran played a direct role in planning the assault, according to several American officials.

These key Iranian officials did not know the attack was coming, according to the intelligence. The United States, Israel and key regional allies have not found evidence that Iran directly helped plan the attack, according to the U.S. officials and another official in the Middle East.

While they would not identify the Iranian officials who expressed surprise at the attack, the U.S. officials said they were people who typically would be aware of operations involving the Quds Force, Iran's paramilitary arm that supports and works with proxy forces.

U.S. officials said the intelligence investigation was continuing and could turn up evidence that Iran or other states were directly involved in the Hamas operation. Senior officials said they were keeping an open mind, reviewing old intelligence reports and looking for new information.

Iran has provided large numbers of weapons and support to Hamas over many years. U.S. officials have made clear that they believe this makes Tehran broadly complicit in the attack. But that was a different issue than direct knowledge and involvement, they said.

Morgan Muir, a senior U.S. intelligence official, told members of Congress in a briefing on Tuesday that there was no direct link between Iran and the Hamas attack, U.S. officials said. Mr. Muir provided few details but told lawmakers that U.S. agencies had intelligence contradicting assertions that Iran had helped plan the attack.

The United States and its allies regularly track and monitor meetings between Quds Force leaders and their proxies and allies, including Hamas. But officials say there is no evidence that those meetings were used to plan the attack in Israel. While officials concede that there could have been other secret meetings that Western intelligence did not track, for now they have found no evidence of such meetings.

The U.S. officials spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the intelligence and requested that The New York Times not report the means of collection to protect sources and methods.

Jake Sullivan, the national security adviser, said on Tuesday that agencies had not collected intelligence about direct Iranian involvement in the attack.

Officials said Mr. Sullivan’s remarks reflected the intelligence collected so far, which did not point to direct involvement by Iran.

“We have said since the beginning: Iran is complicit in this attack in a broad sense because they have provided the lion’s share of the funding for the military arm of Hamas,” he said. “They have provided training, they have provided capabilities.”

President Biden is facing fierce criticism from some members of the Republican Party, including candidates for president, who accuse the administration of being soft on Iran. The Biden administration has been trying unsuccessfully to revive a nuclear deal with Iran and recently negotiated a deal for the release of prisoners. In exchange, Iran gained access to $6 billion in frozen oil revenues for humanitarian purposes.

Former President Donald J. Trump and other Republicans tried to cast blame on Mr. Biden, saying that those funds helped to finance the assault. But that $6 billion is not U.S. taxpayer money, as Mr. Trump and others falsely stated. Nor is there evidence that the money, which officials have said is subject to Treasury Department oversight, was used to finance the attacks.

Treasury Secretary Janet L. Yellen did not rule out the possibility of reversing a decision made last month to unfreeze the $6 billion in Iranian funds if it is determined that the country was involved in the attack by Hamas. Ms. Yellen said the funds had not yet been touched.

The United States moved an aircraft carrier to the region, a step meant to deter Iran or its proxies from opening another front in the wake of the assault.




This also lays out a very clear difference that I was also trying to lay out in my previous posts. Iran may be "broadly complicit", as they generally fund and train Hamas, just like the US is "broadly complicit" in the genocidal actions of Israel towards Palestine.

But Iran is not directly responsible for this attack, much like the US is not directly responsible for an IDF commando picking off Palestinian kids for fun. Sorry ecstatic.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #28500082 - 10/11/23 12:47 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Truth be told US intelligence is constantly surprised and caught off guard…except when they’re couping foreign countries left and right all willy nilly.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Skellies]
    #28500084 - 10/11/23 12:49 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Skellies said:
Hezbollah is exchanging fire with Israel on the border with Lebanon. If Hezbollah chooses to increase their engagement it could be a major factor.




Sirens going off across a shitload of West Bank settlements right now, just in the wake of Bibi moving all troops to the southwest to contain Gaza.


Not sure whether it’s explicitly Hezbollah but I don’t see how they wouldn’t be involved to some degree. Some reports that the fence separating Lebanon and Palestine has been blown up, but no confirmation.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28500182 - 10/11/23 02:05 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:

Clearly they weren't. So, the lack of Iranian missiles being used by Hamas is now evidence of Iranian support for Hamas?




That sounds like a huge logical leap to me.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Ice9] * 2
    #28500189 - 10/11/23 02:10 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
Quote:

koods said:
I would not be surprised at all if Russia supported this attack. Seems exactly like the kind of fuckery they would get involved in



There are reports captured US "trophy" weapons were transfered from Russia to HAMAS for this attack to undermine the US arming Ukraine. :shrug:



Ah hah!!! Russia is couping Israel :smug:


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Psilynut2]
    #28500242 - 10/11/23 02:53 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:

Clearly they weren't. So, the lack of Iranian missiles being used by Hamas is now evidence of Iranian support for Hamas?




That sounds like a huge logical leap to me.




I agree.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28500262 - 10/11/23 03:04 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

I don't know why you'd even go there


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Enlil]
    #28500351 - 10/11/23 04:16 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

I did not make the claim that Hamas was using Iranian missiles, nor did I posit that the presence of Iranian missiles necessarily involved Iran.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #28500388 - 10/11/23 04:56 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

No.  What you did was way more deceptive and dishonest than that.  Someone posted a link about hamas showing a missile and suggested that if that missile is Iranian, that would be an indicator that Iran was helping Hamas.  You then said that the presence of AR-15s would equally be an indicator that the U.S. was helping Hamas.  Someone called you out on that by arguing the vast difference between a common firearm available on the open market and a truck mounted missile.  Then you said that 3000 such truck mounted missiles were used in the attack..until you backpedaled from that to saying that rockets were used.

What part of that did I get wrong?


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #28500402 - 10/11/23 05:10 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Israeli government official is berated and chased away after showing up at a hospital. Seems like a lot of Israelis are willing to blame their government for what happened.

Quote:

Minister Idit Silman is greeted with scorn and screams of dismayed citizens at Assaf Harofeh




https://twitter.com/mqudsi/status/1712187040039616756?s=46&t=v6A7MSXUAx3KM0glMf5Wdg

That doctor is PISSED OFF. Wow

I suspect that once the immediate crisis is over, Netanyahu is toast


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Edited by koods (10/11/23 05:17 PM)

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Enlil]
    #28500494 - 10/11/23 06:16 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
No.  What you did was way more deceptive and dishonest than that.  Someone posted a link about hamas showing a missile and suggested that if that missile is Iranian, that would be an indicator that Iran was helping Hamas.  You then said that the presence of AR-15s would equally be an indicator that the U.S. was helping Hamas.  Someone called you out on that by arguing the vast difference between a common firearm available on the open market and a truck mounted missile.  Then you said that 3000 such truck mounted missiles were used in the attack..until you backpedaled from that to saying that rockets were used.

What part of that did I get wrong?




Several unverified claims there.

First off, didn't even realize there was a link. Damn, and here I am trying to ID a missile from a picture. Pretty sure I'm right, though, because Wikipedia lists the Toophan missile as being between 116 and 145cm in length, and unless Yemen is also known as Liliput in certain circles, the pictured missile is a lot bigger.

I was also correct that the missile pictured is part of a military parade of Houthi rebels in Yemen, which is very different from Hamas and Palestine.

Next, I did fail to distinguish between rockets and missiles. Whoops. It is a small, but very important distinction.

Where the truck-mounted aspect came from, I am not certain. I assume you agree with my assessment that the pictured missile is likely a Shahed-3 MRBM, and then that kinda morphed together with me not distinguishing between missiles and rockets. Either way, I see no evidence of Hamas using something like that to begin with.

But ultimately, I stand by my original point. If the presence of military equipment created by one nation is evidence that nation is organizing an offensive, then why does this not apply to US-made weapons? Is it because of the fact that AR-15 pattern firearms are ubiquitous throughout the world? The Toophan has been mass produced since 1987, and has been used by pretty much every state and non-state military in the middle east. I would call that pretty ubiquitous. And also it is not truck mounted. It is a four foot long ATGM that can be fired from a tripod. Or a bipod.

I still don't think that Hamas claiming to have a toophan missile, while posting a picture of a clearly not toophan missile, mounted on a truck with a Yemeni flag, in the middle of a military parade in Yemen, should be considered evidence that Iran is backing Hamas, since they designed the Toophan.

EDIT: I will also add, that the claim was not that the presence of a picture of an Iranian missile "suggests" Iranian involvement, the claim was that it should be considered incontrovertible evidence of Iranian involvement. I think I expanded on this point several times, in that I do not deny that Iran is *generally* involved, no shit they are, but there is a big difference between being generally associated with Islamic rebels and directing their activities. I expect that this difference will become increasingly salient in the coming days, as we decide whether a war with Iran is a good idea or not.

Edited by Kryptos (10/11/23 06:38 PM)

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #28500498 - 10/11/23 06:19 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

I can't get over the Israeli intelligence services being oblivious to such a huge logistics operation when normally they detect who farted by IR satellite imaging.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Asante]
    #28500502 - 10/11/23 06:21 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
I can't get over the Israeli intelligence services being oblivious to such a huge logistics operation when normally they detect who farted by IR satellite imaging.





Yea, that's the biggest mystery in all of this so far.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
    #28500510 - 10/11/23 06:24 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

They Coventry'd them :sadyes:

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Asante] * 1
    #28500512 - 10/11/23 06:26 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

At this point I consider the scenarios where either (a) Trump gave Russia Israeli intelligence which they passed on to Hamas or (b) Israeli leadership intentionally letting Hamas in as a Reichstag fire event to be slightly more likely than the intelligence failure aspect.

Honestly, the first seems to be more likely, considering that Trump bragged about giving out Israeli intelligence, and on at least one occasion that I remember revealed that Israeli intelligence had provided information.

However, the recent claim from Egypt That Egyptian intelligence warned Israel three days in advance supports the latter scenario.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake] * 1
    #28500540 - 10/11/23 06:47 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
Quote:

Asante said:
I can't get over the Israeli intelligence services being oblivious to such a huge logistics operation when normally they detect who farted by IR satellite imaging.





Yea, that's the biggest mystery in all of this so far.




Complacency. Israel was too dependent on technology


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #28500543 - 10/11/23 06:49 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
At this point I consider the scenarios where either (a) Trump gave Russia Israeli intelligence which they passed on to Hamas or (b) Israeli leadership intentionally letting Hamas in as a Reichstag fire event to be slightly more likely than the intelligence failure aspect.

Honestly, the first seems to be more likely, considering that Trump bragged about giving out Israeli intelligence, and on at least one occasion that I remember revealed that Israeli intelligence had provided information.

However, the recent claim from Egypt That Egyptian intelligence warned Israel three days in advance supports the latter scenario.




It would be interesting to know exactly what the nature of the Israeli intelligence Trump gave to Russia.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #28500570 - 10/11/23 06:58 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

CNN is interviewing a guy who ran over a bunch of terrorists while escaping the music festival.




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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #28500606 - 10/11/23 07:11 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

It is an open air prison. That's why their warnings to civilians to leave is ridiculous. Israel controls what goes in and out.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: McKennasMoustache]
    #28500620 - 10/11/23 07:16 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

And Egypt


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #28500632 - 10/11/23 07:19 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
At this point I consider the scenarios where either (a) Trump gave Russia Israeli intelligence which they passed on to Hamas or (b) Israeli leadership intentionally letting Hamas in as a Reichstag fire event to be slightly more likely than the intelligence failure aspect.

Honestly, the first seems to be more likely, considering that Trump bragged about giving out Israeli intelligence, and on at least one occasion that I remember revealed that Israeli intelligence had provided information.

However, the recent claim from Egypt That Egyptian intelligence warned Israel three days in advance supports the latter scenario.




It would be interesting to know exactly what the nature of the Israeli intelligence Trump gave to Russia.




https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html

Here is the event I'm referring to. Israeli intelligence describing an ISIS plot. The biggest concern at the time was that it would reveal intelligence-gathering techniques used by Israel.

So, yeah, entirely possible that Israeli intelligence gathering was compromised. Of course the article doesn't mention specifics, but considering that the weakest part of the Israeli intelligence network is likely the human informants spread throughout Palestine, this could be a potential concern.

However, this event happened in 2017. Six years. That makes this hypothesis much less likely, as human intelligence networks don't operate on such timescales.

But methods by which human intelligence networks are formed...those stay pretty constant. But are also somewhat obvious?

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28500643 - 10/11/23 07:21 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Pretty sure there’s a lot of information trump bragged about that we will never know about considering how many things we do know about.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: McKennasMoustache]
    #28500646 - 10/11/23 07:22 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

McKennasMoustache said:
It is an open air prison. That's why their warnings to civilians to leave is ridiculous. Israel controls what goes in and out.




I heard a reporter who is currently in Israel describe their warnings as specific ones to leave certain buildings before they level them. Delivered unreliably by text message about 5 minutes beforehand.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods] * 1
    #28500655 - 10/11/23 07:24 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Pretty sure there’s a lot of information trump bragged about that we will never know about considering how many things we do know about.




And 99% of it was made up on the spot. That's why I rely on journalists, who sift through the garbage to find the important bits. This does seem oddly relevant.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #28500839 - 10/11/23 08:51 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

So after initial reports of Hamas beheading babies (obvious bullshit), the media went quiet and the IDF said they weren’t going to investigate the claims.

But apparently nobody passed that word to Biden, who claimed today in a press conference to have SEEN PICTURES of babies with their heads cut off.

Cool thing to tell the entire world and then quietly issue this retraction later:



Biden seeing evidence really meant “he heard about it from someone.”




Just brazen, balls out propaganda.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods] * 1
    #28500847 - 10/11/23 08:53 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
Quote:

Asante said:
I can't get over the Israeli intelligence services being oblivious to such a huge logistics operation when normally they detect who farted by IR satellite imaging.





Yea, that's the biggest mystery in all of this so far.




Complacency. Israel was too dependent on technology





While they do use sophisticated technology, Israel generally relies on a vast network of human intelligence to detect upcoming attacks. They’re renowned for it. Egypt knew. Egypt told Israeli intelligence (and Netanyahu directly) that there was a serious attack coming.

It’s no mystery. At least not to me. But this whole matter has already been buried by the blood happy media who don’t know which way to jump. Previous agencies/publications, once overtly publishing to raise the Palestinian plight, are now getting all wet over Israeli air attacks and the idea of a ground invasion.

Netanyahu needed this. After nationwide protests against him directly earlier this year…ooof what a bounty of political capital! If he can keep the fact of being warned squashed with disinformation, he and his ilk will get to destroy so much of Gaza the rest won’t be worth saving. And biden will allow it (ffs I watched some of his press address madness), until there’s massive international condemnation.

This is an almighty shit show of the highest proportions. What happened to Israelis was an abomination. What is and about to happen to Palestinians (who have NOWHERE to go) will be…an abomination.

Fuck Netanyahu. Honestly.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Milleresque]
    #28500856 - 10/11/23 08:57 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

So you’re going full LIHOP and I’m the conspiracy monger?


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #28500861 - 10/11/23 08:59 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

I’m not down with internet abbreviations Koods. Nor was I having a go at you mate. Was simply saying that human intelligence is what they rely on to discover and thwart attacks.

At least the guardian is still punching on

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/12/israel-hamas-war-egypt-warned-foreign-affairs-gaza


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #28500862 - 10/11/23 08:59 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

9/11 worked on us, this will probably work on Bibi.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Milleresque]
    #28500872 - 10/11/23 09:06 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Milleresque said:
I’m not down with internet abbreviations Koods. Nor was I having a go at you mate. Was simply saying that human intelligence is what they rely on to discover and thwart attacks.

At least the guardian is still punching on

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/12/israel-hamas-war-egypt-warned-foreign-affairs-gaza




LIHOP = Let It Happen On Purpose


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28500890 - 10/11/23 09:16 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

https://x.com/samknight1/status/1712297474046521843?s=46&t=NCHEHEdgn4yG76LKXrSTrw


CNN, on the topic of Biden just making shit up: it might be a lie, but it’s still scary to hear the president say it.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #28500892 - 10/11/23 09:17 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Netanyahu went to high school with Reggie Jackson.

Just a random, bizarre factoid


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #28500915 - 10/11/23 09:30 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Somebody else posted this in one of these threads, and I found it very helpful in wrapping my head around things:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-israel-was-duped-hamas-planned-devastating-assault-2023-10-08/

Even the fighters training for the invasion supposedly had no idea what they were doing.

And I bet stumbling across a rave in the desert was unexpected, too, unless they had people combing social media looking for events.

The more I think about it, the more that rave seems like the height of hubris. Puts Woodstock 99 to shame.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven] * 1
    #28500917 - 10/11/23 09:32 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

That rave happens every year at the end of sukkot

Festival goers are not observant Jews. Partying on Friday night is definitely not kosher.

Edited by koods (10/11/23 09:36 PM)

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #28500953 - 10/11/23 10:05 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Still, having a yearly rave near the border of Gaza is the height of hubris. Islam isn't really known for being cool with music and dancing, they're a lot like the Orthodox Israel is like that. Plus, ravers near Palestine, with >50% unemployed?

Also, the fact that there was an apparently crewed tank nearby tells me they knew the rave was a potential target.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28500959 - 10/11/23 10:07 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

I don’t believe it was crewed. Apparently a bunch of people hid under it for six hours


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods] * 2
    #28501122 - 10/12/23 01:30 AM (7 months, 2 days ago)

I’ve been watching some Israeli news and man you think the left hates Trump, it ain’t nothing compared to the shit going down in Israel re: Netanyahu.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #28501148 - 10/12/23 02:55 AM (7 months, 2 days ago)

https://www.memri.org/tv/senior-hamas-official-ali-baraka-prisoner-swap-america-planning-invasion-two-years-russia-support

Interesting interview..

Dude says hamas has putins green light among other things.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #28501178 - 10/12/23 05:15 AM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
That rave happens every year at the end of sukkot





Was it always held in that location?


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven]
    #28501199 - 10/12/23 06:05 AM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Seen reports that the airport in Damascus was targeted by the Israelis. There has always been sometype of exchange of fire with Syria, but if true....this is a definite escalation.



https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/syria-state-tv-says-israeli-attack-targets-aleppo-damascus-airports-2023-10-12/

Syria's state television said Israel launched attacks on the main airports in the capital Damascus and the northern city of Aleppo on Thursday.

Local media channel Sham FM said Syrian air defences were launched in response to both attacks. It said here had been damage but no casualties at the Aleppo airport, but did not give any information on the impact of the strike on Damascus Airport.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot] * 2
    #28501205 - 10/12/23 06:17 AM (7 months, 2 days ago)




:unwanted:


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Ice9]
    #28501284 - 10/12/23 07:46 AM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
There are reports captured US "trophy" weapons were transfered from Russia to HAMAS for this attack to undermine the US arming Ukraine. :shrug:




What reports? Hope it's not from Biden, he has no credibility, zero, none, he should do the right thing and resign for the beheaded children bullshit... world leader, what an effing joke.

Without even considering the weapons siphoned off from Ukraine, have you forgotten about this catastrophic, embarrassing failure? 



https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/07/05/taliban-afghanistan-arms-dealers-weapons-sales-terrorism/

Quote:

And the American largesse that created the Taliban’s boon in the first place was staggering. The U.S. Department of Defense estimated that left-behind stockpiles of arms and vehicles were worth $7.12 billion of the $18.6 billion spent from 2002 on arming the Afghan security forces. “This included roughly 600,000 weapons of all calibers, nearly 300 fixed-wing and rotary-wing aircraft, over 80,000 vehicles of several models, communications equipment, and other advanced materiel such as night vision goggles and biometric systems,” according to the U.S. Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction (SIGAR). After the military exit in the summer of 2021, SIGAR quoted a Taliban official as saying, “The group took possession of more than 300,000 light arms, 26,000 heavy weapons, and about 61,000 military vehicles.” That’s on top of what they already had.




Someone - "making weapons is great for U.S. employment"


U.S. weapons being used against Israel? It doesn't get any better than that.

:hahthatsrich:

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Asante]
    #28501303 - 10/12/23 07:58 AM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Asante said:



:unwanted:




That's about what sums up humans.

If only we would collectively rally on something good as much as something bad.


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Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28501537 - 10/12/23 11:30 AM (7 months, 2 days ago)

the religious types, and, those whom might know better yet still pretend in order to leech off their aloofness wrt the naked truth of things - have been blood-feuding...for forever, basically.

how's this any different from every other 'hygue' attacks by any covered by the media before? (other than israel's declaration) - is the US planning on anything wrt that front, too? 

i've read a little from various multi-slanted authors' opinion pieces regarding the current burst of fighting, and that it might lead to all out war - which i think that's dumb as could possibly be, but alrightythen.

Can someone tell me their op on how come that is or isn't a realistic possibility?

so fucking delusional and retarded I can't even,
we're supposed to have star trek lvl life right soon now this? bahhhh...:oldman:


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Blind Ass] * 2
    #28501542 - 10/12/23 11:37 AM (7 months, 2 days ago)

actually first contact was/is april 5th 2063 after the 3rd world war. we got some time and suffering to still go through before star trek happens:sad:

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mushboy]
    #28501557 - 10/12/23 11:51 AM (7 months, 2 days ago)

faak, you're right...:doh: :mad2::sad::oldman:


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #28501566 - 10/12/23 12:01 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

watch out for the eastern coalition:paranoid:

...and the borg:borg:

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mushboy] * 2
    #28501570 - 10/12/23 12:04 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Unfortunately, I think our world is a lot closer to the Idiocracy track than it is the Star Trek one.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven] * 2
    #28501579 - 10/12/23 12:09 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

According to Star Trek, we should be heading into the Bell Riots this upcoming year.

So we're actually pretty on schedule.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven]
    #28501619 - 10/12/23 12:56 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

B Traven said:
Quote:

koods said:
That rave happens every year at the end of sukkot





Was it always held in that location?




I believe it’s put on by the kibbutz, which are Israeli hippie communes


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (10/12/23 12:57 PM)

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods] * 1
    #28501665 - 10/12/23 01:46 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

B Traven said:
Quote:

koods said:
That rave happens every year at the end of sukkot





Was it always held in that location?




I believe it’s put on by the kibbutz, which are Israeli hippie communes




Ah, right, that makes sense.

And they've lived in the shadow of that border wall on a day-to-day basis, somewhat detached from the political reality... "far away" from the hectic north...


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Edited by B Traven (10/12/23 01:47 PM)

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos] * 3
    #28501698 - 10/12/23 02:14 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)


Quote:

Kryptos said:
According to Star Trek, we should be heading into the Bell Riots this upcoming year.

So we're actually pretty on schedule.





an uprising within a walled off district...
:shockandawe:

although its not san fran.. but still.

gene roddenberry knew his shit.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #28501700 - 10/12/23 02:15 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I’ve been watching some Israeli news and man you think the left hates Trump, it ain’t nothing compared to the shit going down in Israel re: Netanyahu.




Honestly surprised that he’s getting blamed for all this.

But it’s not like he was well-liked before.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28501714 - 10/12/23 02:24 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

koods said:
I’ve been watching some Israeli news and man you think the left hates Trump, it ain’t nothing compared to the shit going down in Israel re: Netanyahu.




Honestly surprised that he’s getting blamed for all this.

But it’s not like he was well-liked before.




I'd imagine part of it is that "SECURITY" is very much in his wheelhouse, and underpins his party's messaging.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven] * 1
    #28501720 - 10/12/23 02:27 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)



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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (10/12/23 02:29 PM)

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven] * 1
    #28501758 - 10/12/23 02:51 PM (7 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

B Traven said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

koods said:
I’ve been watching some Israeli news and man you think the left hates Trump, it ain’t nothing compared to the shit going down in Israel re: Netanyahu.




Honestly surprised that he’s getting blamed for all this.

But it’s not like he was well-liked before.




I'd imagine part of it is that "SECURITY" is very much in his wheelhouse, and underpins his party's messaging.




Agreed.

Many Israelis could stomach him so long as he kept the brown people in check. He failed.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28501827 - 10/12/23 03:22 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)


Quote:

That this human filth, despicable, without compassion and morality, the miserable squatter of the damned and his pissing trio, who together with her violent Hebrew gang caused the most horrific disaster for the Jewish people since the holocaust, prepare herself because this is what awaits her at least until she is prosecuted for her crimes.. May God only know sorrow And pain every day of her despised life




Quote:

Wow! Another Israeli minister, this time Transport Minister Miri Regev, violently chased away from a Tel Aviv hospital...




https://twitter.com/meir_marciano/status/1712431451281436900?s=46&t=v6A7MSXUAx3KM0glMf5Wdg


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Edited by koods (10/12/23 03:24 PM)

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mushboy] * 1
    #28501885 - 10/12/23 04:06 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:

Quote:

Kryptos said:
According to Star Trek, we should be heading into the Bell Riots this upcoming year.

So we're actually pretty on schedule.





an uprising within a walled off district...
:shockandawe:

although its not san fran.. but still.

gene roddenberry knew his shit.




Yeah I think the US-centrism was really the only thing wrong about Star Trek.

Although, that might be because I've been reading wildly foreign sci-fi lately, and of course everyone puts the epicenter in their own home country. Which sometimes makes sense, when it's like, Beijing or something. But when the big center of alien contact is like, Johannesburg...wut?

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods] * 1
    #28501889 - 10/12/23 04:08 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

This is why it sucks to see innocent Israelis killed. There are good people who strongly oppose the way the regime treats Palestinians, and when that regime pours gas on the fire and Israelis get killed, that same regime says “see?! This is why we need to genocide even harder.”


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28501895 - 10/12/23 04:11 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Although, that might be because I've been reading wildly foreign sci-fi lately




any examples?? :takingnotes:

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mushboy]
    #28501899 - 10/12/23 04:12 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)



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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic] * 3
    #28501905 - 10/12/23 04:16 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

reminds me of JM productions putting 'we will never forget' messages before every movie after 9/11 for a few months.

jm productions makes fine films series like gag factor and white trash whore

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mushboy] * 3
    #28501906 - 10/12/23 04:16 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Although, that might be because I've been reading wildly foreign sci-fi lately




any examples?? :takingnotes:




Three Body Problem trilogy is by far the best thing I've read recently. Reminds me of Asimov. Actually has some crazy new thoughts and ideas.

And is also pretty misogynistic, for that true Asimov feel.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28501913 - 10/12/23 04:18 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

hot :naughty:

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28501922 - 10/12/23 04:23 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

I’ve been watching the Foundation adaptation on Apple TV. It’s pretty good, they try to make it inclusive but the misogyny is built in lol


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mushboy]
    #28501952 - 10/12/23 04:40 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

I have heard many agrue that this was a nesscary and also a PR win from Hamas. From what I can gather, this has severely damaged the cheese and vilon, cry me a river for the Palestinians plight type shit.

Maybe it was a mistake to vote in Hamas? I know they shut down elections after that, but hey, this a a fine example of a reputable government that has done wonders for its people. Who wouldn't want another theocratic government that treat most of its citizens as subhuman? I mean it's totally justified to primarily attack civilians in thier quest for a Palestinian state. That brings so much credence to their cause.

If anything, it appears that the absolute wrong stances that Israel has taken seems alot more palatable to people on the fence. Good job guys, you just gave Israel a pass on the things that should have changed, but I understand that primarily attacking civilians was the smart choice to force this issue and draw attention to all those settlements, you only had three decades to come up with a plan. Let's see how all the friendly Middle Eastern countries will accept the refuges, I am sure they will....its not like the Palestinians haven't been kicked out before.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28501956 - 10/12/23 04:42 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I’ve been watching the Foundation adaptation on Apple TV. It’s pretty good, they try to make it inclusive but the misogyny is built in lol





Is it like the books? I know no movie can, but is it close?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28501993 - 10/12/23 05:00 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I’ve been watching the Foundation adaptation on Apple TV. It’s pretty good, they try to make it inclusive but the misogyny is built in lol





Is it like the books? I know no movie can, but is it close?




It’s been a decade since I read the books but I think they do a pretty good job with the tv adaptation. There’s currently two seasons, I’m halfway through the latter one.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic] * 3
    #28501998 - 10/12/23 05:02 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)



--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #28502009 - 10/12/23 05:12 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
I have heard many agrue that this was a nesscary and also a PR win from Hamas. From what I can gather, this has severely damaged the cheese and vilon, cry me a river for the Palestinians plight type shit.

Maybe it was a mistake to vote in Hamas? I know they shut down elections after that, but hey, this a a fine example of a reputable government that has done wonders for its people. Who wouldn't want another theocratic government that treat most of its citizens as subhuman? I mean it's totally justified to primarily attack civilians in thier quest for a Palestinian state. That brings so much credence to their cause.

If anything, it appears that the absolute wrong stances that Israel has taken seems alot more palatable to people on the fence. Good job guys, you just gave Israel a pass on the things that should have changed, but I understand that primarily attacking civilians was the smart choice to force this issue and draw attention to all those settlements, you only had three decades to come up with a plan. Let's see how all the friendly Middle Eastern countries will accept the refuges, I am sure they will....its not like the Palestinians haven't been kicked out before.




I don't think we are the intended target.

Seems to be an unironically pretty big PR win across Palestine and Israel, though. That's the whole purpose of a resistance movement. A resistance isn't there to topple a ruling regime, the resistance exists to create fear among the ruling regime, and force the ruling regime to make progressively stupider mistakes.

That's why killing Reinhard Heydrich, for example, was a priority for the WWII resistance. Everybody knew it was a one way mission, everybody knew the nazis were gonna massacre civilians in reprisal...but the point was to reach out and touch a Nazi official. It was a reminder that the nazis were not safe, that they would never be safe as long as they stayed in occupied territory.

Hamas just proved that no matter how much the US funds Israel, no matter how much time they spend building the most complex security apparatus this side of the CCP, it doesn't matter. Hamas can land fucking paratroopers in the suburbs of Tel Aviv anyway.

The location of the attacks, I think, underscores this. Hamas didn't strike where they usually do, along the border. No, they hit right in the heart of Israel. They hit the people who live in the "safe" areas, far from Palestine.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28502011 - 10/12/23 05:13 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I’ve been watching the Foundation adaptation on Apple TV. It’s pretty good, they try to make it inclusive but the misogyny is built in lol





Is it like the books? I know no movie can, but is it close?




It’s been a decade since I read the books but I think they do a pretty good job with the tv adaptation. There’s currently two seasons, I’m halfway through the latter one.




I'll have to take a look, then. Foundation was my all time favorite, and I heard it had been butchered.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28502017 - 10/12/23 05:18 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

My biggest gripe is the casting they did for Cleon, the acting just seems so forced.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28502025 - 10/12/23 05:22 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

If that is the case of this resistance, Hamas has diametrically failed in my opinion. They have given Israel a blank check to cash at will, and most won't bat an eye. It will take another 3 decades to even come back from this. I will eat crow if need be, but I belive Hamas, in its current and future form will fade with a whimper.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #28502028 - 10/12/23 05:27 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

Were any of y’all alive in 2018?

The Palestinians tried non-violence. They went to the fence every day to cook food and sing songs and protest the occupation. Israel shot like 10,000 of them.

It’s either die slow or fight back. To paraphrase Stokley Carmichael: for non-violence to work, your opponent needs a conscience.

Israel never gave peace a chance. And why would they? They’ve been importing Jews from all over the world (even non-Jews), exterminating/deporting Palestinians to refugee camps where they are never legally allowed to return to Palestine, and building settlements out the ass overtop the rubble of Palestinian neighborhoods and they’re STILL the minority population. Democracy and due process and abiding by international law in Israel/Palestine means Palestinians are actually granted power. Can’t have that.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #28502047 - 10/12/23 05:40 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

The original Star Trek was kind of a Cold War parable, right?

I'm sure that frustration led people in Gaza to vote for Hamas, to whatever extent they actually did of their own free will and without pressure (and really, who the fuck knows?). But there was also internecine fighting, people getting thrown off roofs, and just the isolated nature of Gaza itself.

Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel and the establishment of an Islamic state. If they become politically irrelevant, or soft, or even just lose control of their population, they're done for. No more support, popular or otherwise. No more Jihad money rolling in.

It's like asking whether Putin cares that he's dragging Russia into dangerous territory. No, of course he doesn't. The only thing that matters is that he stays in charge.


--------------------
Beware of advice- even this.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven] * 1
    #28502057 - 10/12/23 05:47 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

@ B traven

Some aspects of parts of a number of the series harp on it big time, amongst other things wrt earth-life today, the past, and potential future.  But, in short - yeah - the theme is there throughout var. series. :thumbup:

@ kryptos

My dude!
Three Body Problem = the tits of the bee's knees. :thumbup:

:manofapproval::chefskiss:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #28502083 - 10/12/23 06:03 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
If that is the case of this resistance, Hamas has diametrically failed in my opinion. They have given Israel a blank check to cash at will, and most won't bat an eye. It will take another 3 decades to even come back from this. I will eat crow if need be, but I belive Hamas, in its current and future form will fade with a whimper.




I think the only way that Hamas fades into obscurity is if Israel, and their western allies, do not overreact.

If you're willing to accept my hypothesis that the primary purpose of resistance is to spread fear among an otherwise universally superior opponent, then Koods' poll showing 80% of Israelis feel unsafe as a result of this attack shows...a pretty clear success thus far.

Second, I don't think Israel has a blank check, at least not to the extent they think they do. Yes, the war drums are beating, and yes, the media is pushing a certain blood frenzy that I haven't felt since around 2001-2003...But that's the problem. Afghanistan/Iraq were a US blank check turned into a two decade long failure, and ultimately was a win for the Taliban.

Many will not bat an eye, but they won't be able to keep the pictures of mutilated children in Gaza quiet for long.

Hamas has the upper hand right now, because violence craves retaliation. Many people believe in the concept of an eye for an eye. Many people are calling for Israel to commit to a ground invasion. I've seen calls to nuke Gaza, I've seen people explicitly calling for the eradication of the "Palestinian gene pool".

If Israel can avoid that, then you're right. Hamas will fade away, forgotten as the butchers of innocents.

Personally, though? I think were in for round 2:


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos] * 2
    #28502091 - 10/12/23 06:06 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

Human Rights Watch confirming Israel’s use of white phosphorus in Gaza and Lebanon:

https://x.com/hrw/status/1712573871596187916?s=46&t=NCHEHEdgn4yG76LKXrSTrw

Another war crime on to the pile, lads


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #28502110 - 10/12/23 06:16 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

damn, shit's so fucked no matter how anyone can spin it. :nonono:


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28502123 - 10/12/23 06:22 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Human Rights Watch confirming Israel’s use of white phosphorus in Gaza and Lebanon:

https://x.com/hrw/status/1712573871596187916?s=46&t=NCHEHEdgn4yG76LKXrSTrw

Another war crime on to the pile, lads




Any of you guys ever play Spec Ops: The Line?

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28502127 - 10/12/23 06:25 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

I can't believe people aren't following the law while they are killing other people .  Maybe we need a world police or something to enforce those laws.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Psilynut2]
    #28502135 - 10/12/23 06:39 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)



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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28502145 - 10/12/23 06:45 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Palestinians celebrate in Nablus after fighters infiltrated Israel






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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28502168 - 10/12/23 06:55 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Were any of y’all alive in 2018?

The Palestinians tried non-violence. They went to the fence every day to cook food and sing songs and protest the occupation. Israel shot like 10,000 of them.

It’s either die slow or fight back. To paraphrase Stokley Carmichael: for non-violence to work, your opponent needs a conscience.

Israel never gave peace a chance. And why would they? They’ve been importing Jews from all over the world (even non-Jews), exterminating/deporting Palestinians to refugee camps where they are never legally allowed to return to Palestine, and building settlements out the ass overtop the rubble of Palestinian neighborhoods and they’re STILL the minority population. Democracy and due process and abiding by international law in Israel/Palestine means Palestinians are actually granted power. Can’t have that.





All the links I see don't come close to that 10,000 shot figure. I see 10,000 protested, but not that many shot. What's your source? Also, there are descriptions of grenades, explosions, and riots....not the most peaceful.

Yeah, I was around....additionally in the 90s with Bill and the Camp David affair. Differnt accounts but it semed close.....How do you negotiate with somone that believes you should not exist?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Edited by SirTripAlot (10/12/23 06:55 PM)

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot] * 2
    #28502176 - 10/12/23 06:59 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
How do you negotiate with somone that believes you should not exist?




That's a good question for both sides to consider.

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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28502192 - 10/12/23 07:11 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

i gather that somewhere at some point reality pokes its little head through and brings along some good sense, then the shady talk can begin.

'they' can hate each other -or- rather, some deluded bloody mental image of one another, albeit - associatively emotionally charged to the max from whatever real events that have occured being in memory.  But, then you've got to think... if you were someone in either grouping of peoples - that, at the very least - some level of communication to some degree, by at least some of them has to happen, seeing as it's invaluable to do so from almost any of whatever point of view you can imagine.  In short, it simply can't be passed up altogether. 

So it happens, albeit - with lots of make believe that it doesn't.


--------------------
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