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Seriously_trippin
Cosmic Guru Ganesh



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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
#28539535 - 11/11/23 10:36 PM (2 months, 14 days ago) |
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You're talking your way in circles trying to find any possible way to not hold hammas accountable that you can. You're talking about 0 reprecussions,0 accountability and not bringing any terrorists to justice.
And bullshit I'd lose that bet. Unless you despise your family and wouldn't mind seeing your mom beheaded on video I'm fucking positive if it were your family you wouldn't have the same "fuck em theyre completely lost causes" attitude and you wouldnt want a single person to be brought to justice for it. I know you're passionate about this and hate what isreal has done but that tough guy "you'd lose that bet" shit is completely devoid of reality and frankly bullshit.
Okay so 60 hostages are claimed BY the terrorists themselves I'd add to have been killed by friendly fire. There's still hundreds of other who haven't. In hostage situations with terrorists alot of the hostages do die. But to say they're all fucked and there's nothing you can do to save them is just complete crap. As much as you say you condemn what hammas did you sure seem to have 0 ideas on how to hold them accountable for what they did. You're saying isreal shouldn't try and save hundreds (still hundreds even if 60 were killed) of hostages, they shouldn't retaliate or do anything but strengthen their border. That hammas shouldn't be held accountable they shouldn't be punished in any way shape or form.
You're quite litterally saying isreal is bad so hammas gets to get off completely Scott free after slaughtering over 1,000 civilians and all the hostages they took are just theirs to do whatever they want to with them and hammas should never be held accountable except for the sake of argument so you can sound like you don't support a terrorist organization.
-------------------- R.I.P Zombi3, Blue Helix Modest Mouse Zappa Slothie That Kid With The face ShLong Le Canard split_by_nine & Big Worm Forever Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many
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lifeiswhatyoumake
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
#28539538 - 11/11/23 10:40 PM (2 months, 14 days ago) |
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  I dropped a trance track "Peace Love & Trance": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4uQBM-mRYU ;   
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Kryptos
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Quote:
Seriously_trippin said: You're talking your way in circles trying to find any possible way to not hold hammas accountable that you can. You're talking about 0 reprecussions,0 accountability and not bringing any terrorists to justice.
And bullshit I'd lose that bet. Unless you despise your family and wouldn't mind seeing your mom beheaded on video I'm fucking positive if it were your family you wouldn't have the same "fuck em theyre completely lost causes" attitude and you wouldnt want a single person to be brought to justice for it. I know you're passionate about this and hate what isreal has done but that tough guy "you'd lose that bet" shit is completely devoid of reality and frankly bullshit.
Okay so 60 hostages are claimed BY the terrorists themselves I'd add to have been killed by friendly fire. There's still hundreds of other who haven't. In hostage situations with terrorists alot of the hostages do die. But to say they're all fucked and there's nothing you can do to save them is just complete crap. As much as you say you condemn what hammas did you sure seem to have 0 ideas on how to hold them accountable for what they did. You're saying isreal shouldn't try and save hundreds (still hundreds even if 60 were killed) of hostages, they shouldn't retaliate or do anything but strengthen their border. That hammas shouldn't be held accountable they shouldn't be punished in any way shape or form.
You're quite litterally saying isreal is bad so hammas gets to get off completely Scott free after slaughtering over 1,000 civilians and all the hostages they took are just theirs to do whatever they want to with them and hammas should never be held accountable except for the sake of argument so you can sound like you don't support a terrorist organization.
No, I am saying that the drive for retribution in antithetical to preventing further retribution. Justice is one of those words that we think means a good thing, but it really doesn't. It's a nice way of saying "we will hurt you more". One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. That's why Hamas has new recruits all the time.
Yes, this means that if you wish to prevent further terrorist attacks, then you need to allow the terrorists to "get away with it". You don't end a fight by punching back, you end a fight by walking away.
Hence, fortify the border to prevent further attacks from being as damaging, and wait for Hamas to run out of steam, and die out on its own. "Accountability", in this case, would look like Hamas having trouble recruiting, until it's just a few true believers raving in the street that people avoid until they die of old age, or much more likely, alcoholism/drug abuse. Because that's what impotent despair looks like. Wanna know why we have a fentanyl crisis in the US? Impotent despair.
And if you're not familiar with ASPD, commonly known as "psychopathy", which I believe to be a spectrum, not a binary diagnosis, then let me tell you: I don't hate my parents. I don't hate anyone. I just don't care. Empathy is an intellectual exercise for me. It doesn't happen inherently. That's just how my brain is wired.
Just like the leaders of Hamas don't care. They do not care about the suffering they cause. To them, violence is a tool. Suffering is a tool. Fear is a tool. All in an effort to breed hate, which can be turned into a weapon.
Violence doesn't work on psychopaths. It only shows them you still care enough to do violence, and therefore they are successful in keeping your attention. The opposite of love is not hate, it is apathy.
What you call "passion" is a calculation in my mind: If it was done to them, it could happen to me. Same reason I support leftist causes. It removes complications from my life. It gets the people that are in my way, out of my way.
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Kryptos
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Seriously_trippin
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos] 1
#28539583 - 11/11/23 11:48 PM (2 months, 14 days ago) |
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Well I suppose the only way you wouldn't care about your family being held hostage or beheaded on video is to have a mental disorder where you litterally can't care. And I'm not saying that to disparage you, you yourself are saying you wouldn't care. So at least I'm not upset at you for being dishonest now.
But I'm sure you're aware that most people don't have ASPD and would want anything and everything to be done to get those family members back unharmed and that the thought of a loved one being held hostage by terrorists with a penchant for beheading people is almost too much to bear.
And those are the people I'm referring to. When you have a country and your citizens have loved ones being held hostage its very unreasonable to think that they would just accept their family being completely given up on.
As far as the rest of your argument goes that's where we simply disagree. I don't think It's realistic to think doing nothing at all except strengthing the border in response to a terror attack is an appropriate response. You think it is realistic. We will just have to agree to disagree on that.
-------------------- R.I.P Zombi3, Blue Helix Modest Mouse Zappa Slothie That Kid With The face ShLong Le Canard split_by_nine & Big Worm Forever Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many
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Kryptos
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Most people believe in retributive justice, yes. I agree with this sentiment.
I also recognize that this is the exact sentiment that led to the current situation between Hamas and Israel. A history of retributive "justice" where nobody remembers why they are fighting or why they hate each other, apart from that's what their parents and grandparents before that did, all the way back to when the British empire started stirring shit up in the middle east for profits.
The Jews in Israel fight the Arabs in Palestine because that's the family business.
It is often very uncomfortable to break out of generational inertia. I do agree with you that most of Israel and most of Palestine would be much happier killing the other guy, and then dying when the other guys' kids come back to kill them.
I just think it's stupid as fuck. But ego is a hell of a drug.
Well, I guess the people living there wouldn't be happy with the second half of that (the other guys' kids coming back to kill them), but there is a common human delusion that you will be the exception, and not the statistic.
Edit: of course the leadership of both Israel and Hamas know what they are doing, i.e. that more violence is going to keep them in power, and they know they (personally) will not have to pay the cost. They also get what they want.
Edited by Kryptos (11/12/23 01:00 AM)
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Seriously_trippin
Cosmic Guru Ganesh



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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
#28539632 - 11/12/23 01:09 AM (2 months, 14 days ago) |
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Retribution is wrong, holding terrorists accountable and rescuing hostages is proportionate response. Isreal is in the retribution mindset(they don't care about collateral damage because it's war to them) and that's wrong but that's doesn't mean hostages shouldn't be saved and the people who launched the attack shouldn't be tracked down. I think they should see a jury. That's not what's happening I understand that and as ive said isreal is doing a horrible thing blinded by revenge. I just believe there is a way to do this where you don't completely back down and roll over to the terrorists or kill tons of civilians in the process.
-------------------- R.I.P Zombi3, Blue Helix Modest Mouse Zappa Slothie That Kid With The face ShLong Le Canard split_by_nine & Big Worm Forever Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: SirTripAlot]
#28539665 - 11/12/23 03:18 AM (2 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Although most discussions throughout the years come down to what governments should be doing " the right thing" hell, even the humane thing.....the fact will always remain that altruism and nation building (and maintaining) do not occupy the same space.
Maybe Shivas.Wisdom was right all along. Maybe Anarchy is the only solution.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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The Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Bigbadwooof] 2
#28539799 - 11/12/23 07:31 AM (2 months, 14 days ago) |
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Israel’s president holds up a copy of Mein Kampf on TV and says it was found in a “children’s living room” in Northern Gaza.
https://x.com/jrc1921/status/1723634283888161042?s=46&t=NCHEHEdgn4yG76LKXrSTrw
Don’t worry folks, the kids we are murdering are Nazis so it’s fine.
Just embarrassing propaganda. I didn’t even post the video of the fake Gaza nurse claiming hamas was stealing their morphine.
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mushboy
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#28539806 - 11/12/23 07:34 AM (2 months, 14 days ago) |
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would you deny that radical right wing islam and nazism are often ideological twins? because i would argue that point.
it may be some lame propaganda piece but if you go look at hamas or other fundamentalist videos they talk about hitler. im not linking that trash but its easy to find.
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#28539824 - 11/12/23 07:42 AM (2 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Israel’s president holds up a copy of Mein Kampf on TV and says it was found in a “children’s living room” in Northern Gaza.
https://x.com/jrc1921/status/1723634283888161042?s=46&t=NCHEHEdgn4yG76LKXrSTrw
Don’t worry folks, the kids we are murdering are Nazis so it’s fine.
Just embarrassing propaganda. I didn’t even post the video of the fake Gaza nurse claiming hamas was stealing their morphine.
Did you see the clip of Netanyahu saying that it wasn't Hitler's idea to burn the jews... it was the Muslims that told him to do it?
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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The Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mushboy]
#28539856 - 11/12/23 08:03 AM (2 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: would you deny that radical right wing islam and nazism are often ideological twins? because i would argue that point.
it may be some lame propaganda piece but if you go look at hamas or other fundamentalist videos they talk about hitler. im not linking that trash but its easy to find.
No more than Zionism, certainly.
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#28539885 - 11/12/23 08:28 AM (2 months, 14 days ago) |
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Netanyahu making excuses for Hitler:
&ab_channel=Insider
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Kryptos
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Quote:
Seriously_trippin said: Retribution is wrong, holding terrorists accountable and rescuing hostages is proportionate response.
Retribution, noun, "punishment inflicted on someone as vengeance for a wrong or criminal act."
"Holding someone accountable for their actions" is a euphemism that means "punishing someone as vengeance for a wrong or criminal act".
Quote:
Seriously_trippin said: I think they should see a jury.
You know what the purpose of a corporation is? It dilutes responsibility. It's not "I did a bad thing", its "I did the right thing for the corporation, and I broke a few eggs in the process" Woopsies, my intentions were good.
You know what the purpose of a jury is? It dilutes responsibility. Instead of a single judge deciding on what form the retribution will take, they then ask a dozen people to agree with it. That way, it's no one person that decides what the retribution will look like, and no one person can be blamed for that retribution.
You know what the purpose of having an unloaded rifle in an execution by firing squad is? It's so that every person in that firing squad carrying out the execution can just think that they didn't do it. They must have been holding the blank.
That is why you had such a viscerally negative response to my suggestion that Hamas should just be ignored until they go away:
Quote:
Seriously_trippin said: You're quite litterally saying isreal is bad so hammas gets to get off completely Scott free after slaughtering over 1,000 civilians and all the hostages they took are just theirs to do whatever they want to with them and hammas should never be held accountable except for the sake of argument so you can sound like you don't support a terrorist organization.
My belief that "holding Hamas accountable" is a counterproductive example of retributive justice that will ensure the cycle repeats calls into question the righteousness of your own beliefs. Not only that, but it openly questions the assumptions underlying those beliefs.
Here is another type of jury: A couple dudes get together and decide "we're gonna beat the fuck out of this dude. We all agree? Yes? Okay. I'm a good person, you're a good person, we're all good people, and we all agree we should beat the fuck out of this guy. This is a good action. We are all good people. Even though we're doing an objectively bad thing, we are still the good guys."
One person that disagrees with that sentiment immediately calls into question the initial assumption that they are all good people. This is why you end up with slogans like "if you're not with us you're against us". This is why people that refuse to seek "retributive justice" are generally not welcome in those situations. That's why they become "Hamas apologists", not because they defend Hamas, but because they refuse to seek punishment.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos] 1
#28540249 - 11/12/23 12:38 PM (2 months, 14 days ago) |
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Remember in school when the bully would fuck with the loner every day for weeks on end, and then one time the loner fought back and then they both got suspended?
That’s what this is like, except the bully doesn’t even get suspended. The principal just goes on the PA system to tell the school that the bully has a right to defend himself, and then gives the bully a baseball bat for when he goes and beats up the loner’s family.
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mushboy
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic] 2
#28540268 - 11/12/23 12:46 PM (2 months, 14 days ago) |
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You’re almost describing what happened to me growing up.
Spoiler I was the loner and the schools did nothing. One time a teacher laughed. That stung.
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GenesisCorrupted
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mushboy]
#28540275 - 11/12/23 12:52 PM (2 months, 14 days ago) |
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Teachers laughing should get the teacher suspended. You laugh you lose.
 Something similar happened to me.
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mushboy]
#28540294 - 11/12/23 01:09 PM (2 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: You’re almost describing what happened to me growing up.
Spoiler I was the loner and the schools did nothing. One time a teacher laughed. That stung.
I woulda had your back bro ;-)
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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The Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mushboy]
#28540322 - 11/12/23 01:25 PM (2 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: You’re almost describing what happened to me growing up.
Spoiler I was the loner and the schools did nothing. One time a teacher laughed. That stung.
One time this girl slapped me in class, dont even remember why, and I stood up and the teacher said “ecstatic, if you even think about it you’re going to the principal’s office.”
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Kryptos
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#28540324 - 11/12/23 01:26 PM (2 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Remember in school when the bully would fuck with the loner every day for weeks on end, and then one time the loner fought back and then they both got suspended?
That’s what this is like, except the bully doesn’t even get suspended. The principal just goes on the PA system to tell the school that the bully has a right to defend himself, and then gives the bully a baseball bat for when he goes and beats up the loner’s family.
I remember something similar happening to me. Except the day I snapped, my bully needed stitches, spent a few days in the hospital, and came back to school with a full arm cast from the shoulder down.
Never got bullied again after that. Strange. I guess this would be the "no survivors" approach.
I did enjoy taking a few weeks off school, though.
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