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OfflineSkellies


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
    #28499725 - 10/11/23 07:39 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Hezbollah is exchanging fire with Israel on the border with Lebanon. If Hezbollah chooses to increase their engagement it could be a major factor.

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OfflineB Traven
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28499729 - 10/11/23 07:40 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Come on now.

I'm sure Hamas ordered the missiles from AliExpress, like anyone would.

Or, at least anyone in Gaza. Because Amazon doesn't offer free Prime shipping there.


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OfflineIce9
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #28499749 - 10/11/23 08:01 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

I think the idea was to make it appear that the US supply lines to Ukraine were a threat to global stability due to their "leakiness" or that Ukraine was directly re-selling the weapons on the black market.  I guess?  I suspect the weapons got there because Russia sold or traded captured weapons to Iranian arms dealers, for drones and what not, who then resold to Hamas, which is a way simpler explanation than this was some type of Russia galaxy brain move. :shrug:


Ectstatic, I appreciate that you just don't tell people they are an "idiot for believing" something they post with words "I read, I heard. there are reports etc." that indicate the poster is just relaying information.  It is really nice having a back and forth with someone who has basic reading comprehension down pat.


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Ice9] * 2
    #28499751 - 10/11/23 08:06 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

I think that’s a reasonable explanation. There have been reports of Ukrainians selling weapons on the black market for over a year now.


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OfflineIce9
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28499789 - 10/11/23 08:47 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Without a doubt people in Ukraine are selling arms meant for their conflict.  Corruption is still a major concern there.  I would also expect some of those could have ended up in Hamas hands.

https://nordicmonitor.com/2023/05/isis-arms-trafficker-says-ukraine-army-earned-67-million-profit-annually-by-selling-old-arms/


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: twighead] * 1
    #28499924 - 10/11/23 10:39 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
If Hamas had used HIMARS I would assume that they were diverted from a shipment to Ukraine. I would not assume that the US supplied the rockets directly and willingly.

While Iran likely does want to arm Hamas, I really don't think they'd be stupid enough to do it directly in a world full of arms dealers and a major war of attrition in Europe, where war materials can quietly disappear and people won't notice.

Actually, having written all of that out...I would assume that these were rockets diverted from the Russian war effort, maybe.

Either way, as with my response to Metoo above, it seems that you are not equally applying your standard across the board. If the presence of Iranian designed weapons can be assumed evidence of Iranian involvement, why does the presence of US designed weapons not imply the same?

If US weapons can be acquired without the explicit blessing of the US, why would that not be true for Iran? Both the US and Iran have robust weapons industries and both countries are prolific exporters of weapons, often through vaguely criminal intermediaries.



The analysis is good n' all but it's fact that Hamas receives the majority of their funding via Iran since 2006 when Saudi Arabia bailed on them.




Israel receives the majority of their funding via the US. Is it the fault of the US when some random IDF commando decides to execute a few Palestinian kids on the other side of the fence?

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Psilynut2]
    #28499938 - 10/11/23 10:46 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

. If the presence of Iranian designed weapons can be assumed evidence of Iranian involvement, why does the presence of US designed weapons not imply the same?



 
    Because you comparing rifles that any of us can purchase parts for and assemble at home to a giant sophisticated missile that has to be stolen and looks impossible to hide .
    How the fuck are you going to steal a missile so large it needs a giant truck to be driven around on from Iran and then get it to Palestine with no one noticing ?
  You aren't applying the most basic level of rational thought to this .

    You really think the us or Iran could lose equipment like that without knowing exactly where it is ?




Yes, I do. Because if the missile was so giant and impossible to hide, how TF did ~3000 of them get through the Israeli blockade for the purposes of this attack?

I will tell you how. Mostly paraphrasing a NYT article I read a few days back: Iran sells ten missiles to an intermediary, which claims that only nine missiles work, and sells those nine to Russia, while sending parts of one to Hamas. Iran probably knows that their weapons are being diverted, much like we know that US weapon shipments routinely get diverted, but they probably don't care. Missiles are assembled by specialists in Palestine, and stockpiled for attacks.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28499957 - 10/11/23 10:57 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

. If the presence of Iranian designed weapons can be assumed evidence of Iranian involvement, why does the presence of US designed weapons not imply the same?



 
    Because you comparing rifles that any of us can purchase parts for and assemble at home to a giant sophisticated missile that has to be stolen and looks impossible to hide .
    How the fuck are you going to steal a missile so large it needs a giant truck to be driven around on from Iran and then get it to Palestine with no one noticing ?
  You aren't applying the most basic level of rational thought to this .

    You really think the us or Iran could lose equipment like that without knowing exactly where it is ?




Yes, I do. Because if the missile was so giant and impossible to hide, how TF did ~3000 of them get through the Israeli blockade for the purposes of this attack?



Do you have a source for the claim that 3000 missiles were used in the attack?


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28499959 - 10/11/23 10:58 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

twighead said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
If Hamas had used HIMARS I would assume that they were diverted from a shipment to Ukraine. I would not assume that the US supplied the rockets directly and willingly.

While Iran likely does want to arm Hamas, I really don't think they'd be stupid enough to do it directly in a world full of arms dealers and a major war of attrition in Europe, where war materials can quietly disappear and people won't notice.

Actually, having written all of that out...I would assume that these were rockets diverted from the Russian war effort, maybe.

Either way, as with my response to Metoo above, it seems that you are not equally applying your standard across the board. If the presence of Iranian designed weapons can be assumed evidence of Iranian involvement, why does the presence of US designed weapons not imply the same?

If US weapons can be acquired without the explicit blessing of the US, why would that not be true for Iran? Both the US and Iran have robust weapons industries and both countries are prolific exporters of weapons, often through vaguely criminal intermediaries.



The analysis is good n' all but it's fact that Hamas receives the majority of their funding via Iran since 2006 when Saudi Arabia bailed on them.




Israel receives the majority of their funding via the US. Is it the fault of the US when some random IDF commando decides to execute a few Palestinian kids on the other side of the fence?




Yes, but it’s not like the Palestinian Authority can then go air strike the United States the way Israel does Iran.

People making these analogies without pointing out the massive power disparity between the involved parties is being disingenuous.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Enlil]
    #28499973 - 10/11/23 11:04 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

. If the presence of Iranian designed weapons can be assumed evidence of Iranian involvement, why does the presence of US designed weapons not imply the same?



 
    Because you comparing rifles that any of us can purchase parts for and assemble at home to a giant sophisticated missile that has to be stolen and looks impossible to hide .
    How the fuck are you going to steal a missile so large it needs a giant truck to be driven around on from Iran and then get it to Palestine with no one noticing ?
  You aren't applying the most basic level of rational thought to this .

    You really think the us or Iran could lose equipment like that without knowing exactly where it is ?




Yes, I do. Because if the missile was so giant and impossible to hide, how TF did ~3000 of them get through the Israeli blockade for the purposes of this attack?



Do you have a source for the claim that 3000 missiles were used in the attack?




https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-israel-was-duped-hamas-planned-devastating-assault-2023-10-08/

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28499979 - 10/11/23 11:06 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

One thing I will say is this:

If Hamas wanted their attacks to carry a degree of nuance with the Western world, they should’ve joined the Waffen SS.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28499981 - 10/11/23 11:08 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Cool link, but I asked for one that supports your claim that 3000 missiles were used...not 3000 rockets. Psily was specifically talking about these:



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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Enlil]
    #28499987 - 10/11/23 11:12 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

i researched that pic the other day and only found an anti tank weapon with the name used for that big ass bitch mentioned in that post.

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OnlineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mushboy]
    #28499998 - 10/11/23 11:20 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Why are people doing war stuff all thw time now why are members here once again supporting war crimes and terror stuff :mad2:

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OnlineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Enlil]
    #28500000 - 10/11/23 11:21 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Cool link, but I asked for one that supports your claim that 3000 missiles were used...not 3000 rockets. Psily was specifically talking about these:





What is that like a scud missle I wonder where that came from if it's even real :rolleyes:

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Enlil]
    #28500004 - 10/11/23 11:24 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Cool link, but I asked for one that supports your claim that 3000 missiles were used...not 3000 rockets. Psily was specifically talking about these:






I can't find any evidence of something like that being used at all.

Now, I'm no expert, but that looks a lot like a Shahab 3 MRBM, with a range of approximately 2,000 km. The distance between Palestine and Jerusalem, on the other side of Israel, is 77km. Seems like a waste.

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #28500005 - 10/11/23 11:25 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

because its the way of things? war stuff is always happening.

people here commit crimes all day long. do you really expect everyone to share the same moral framework?

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28500006 - 10/11/23 11:25 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

You're the one who said 3,000 of them were.  :shrug:


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Invisiblemycosis
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Enlil]
    #28500010 - 10/11/23 11:28 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

That thing seems like over kill for a tank.

But I’ve gotta admit the Palestinian amateur rocketry club has come a long way in the last decade.
They’ve increased their range and accuracy immensely.

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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28500020 - 10/11/23 11:40 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

much like we know that US weapon shipments routinely get diverted,




  Routinely ? I imagine some weapons get misplaced or lost over the years but  you're saying it happens regularly ?  Do you have any evidence of that claim .  Especially something relating to large equipment you can't just throw in the back of a truck .
  I  was talking specifically about the giant missile in the picture . That isn't something you're going to get out of Iran and into Palestine without the Iranian govts help .


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