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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Metoo] * 2
    #28499138 - 10/10/23 05:22 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Metoo said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:

False dichotomy.

Alternative worldview: Hamas uses guerilla war tactics,  against a more and more online world, to great effect.

Your analysis of "Islamic" war tactics, as well as your analysis of "compassionate rape (Islam style)"  can be safely discounted as the, once again, aggressively anti-islamic bullshit that it is. Because both of those fall under traditional guerilla and terror tactics.




You seem to be implying that the "compassionate rape" things is my analysis but it is not. When I first read the chilling passages in which Muhammad gave detailed instruction when and how it is ok to have sex with the captured females I was shocked and looked for the contemporary Muslim perspective. This is where I came across the the argument that it was in fact a compassionate act - their husbands had just been killed so these women were available.

Since you are showing interest in the subject - there is a separate scriptural debate about the women whose husbands had not been killed but rather captured. Here, also, Muhammad gave very clear instructions how to proceed:

FROM THE HADITH OF THE SUNAN OF ABU DAWUD, VOLUME 2, # 2150:

Abu Said al-Khudri said:  "The apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain.  They met their enemy and fought with them.  They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Quranic verse, "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess".  That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period."  [The Quran verse is 4:24].

[Metoo: this para is pulled from the website, not my analysis]: The note on this Hadith says that "After the distribution of the spoils of war a man may have intercourse with the female slave after passing one menstrual period, if she is not pregnant.  If she is pregnant one should wait till she delivers the child.  This is the view held by Malik, al-Shafi and Abu Thawr.  Abu Hanifah holds that if both the husband and wife are captivated together, their marriage tie still continues; they will not be separated.  According to the majority of scholars, they will be separated.  Al-Awzai maintains that their marriage tie will continue till they remain part of the spoils of war.  If a man buys them, he may separate them if he desires, and cohabit with the female slave after one menstrual period.

https://answeringislam.org/Silas/femalecaptives.htm




My point is that your choice to use Muhammad's writings on rape, but not, for example, the (ordered by Greek commanders) mass rape of Trojans, is intended to have a very specific effect, best described as "Islamophobic".

However, a comparison between the above, including waiting, and the orders given to Greek soldiers during the sack of Troy, for example, actually does kinda make Islam seem more compassionate.

Quote:

As Professor Kathy L. Gaca, an authority on ancient sexual violence puts it, evidence from the 8th century B.C.E indicates that martial rape was a top-down part of the orders given. It was integral to waging warfare, not a “boys will be boys” accompaniment to war. For instance, in the Iliad, Agamemnon’s most senior adviser, Nestor, threatens the Achaean Greek soldiers with death if they try to go home before “properly” conquering Troy, meaning raping Trojan women: “Therefore let none make haste to go till he has first lain with the wife of some Trojan” - Iliad 2.354-359




Guerilla tactics and using rape as a weapon of war has nothing to do with Islam. The way you describe it, Hamas invented both the sneak attack and the idea of raping female captives.

Edit: I could also point out, for example, that Islamic law prohibits fucking with the civilian food supply during war and poisoning wells, something that Israel (clearly) has no problem doing, since they have cut off all food supplies to Gaza.

Edited by Kryptos (10/10/23 05:32 PM)

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Invisiblesudly
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven] * 1
    #28499191 - 10/10/23 06:05 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Iran knows that a nuke would be a suicide attack for their regime. 




It'll make one hell of a jihad!


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: sudly]
    #28499195 - 10/10/23 06:07 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

He’s right though that’s why North Korea doesn’t exist anymore.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28499231 - 10/10/23 06:36 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

mycosis said:
Those dang hippies should have known better than to be partying so close to so much suffering. :facepalm3:




Raver girl keeps filming as she runs in a hail of bullets, climbs over dead bodies and gets shot in the stomach. 

https://reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/s/rRERMko9jb




Interview with girl in this video. She was actually shot in the leg and caught grenade shrapnel in her stomach.

https://twitter.com/onhivng2/status/1711764365517709625?s=46&t=v6A7MSXUAx3KM0glMf5Wdg


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Invisiblemycosis
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods] * 1
    #28499240 - 10/10/23 06:43 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

It's getting harder and harder to just have a good time. :facepalm3:

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OfflineMilleresque
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mycosis] * 1
    #28499298 - 10/10/23 07:33 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Israeli’s defence minister has “released all restraints on troops”…whatever the hell that means. The US says that Israel won’t be actually be adopting the definition of a siege, and they’ve “had talks with the Israeli government about this”.

Don’t make me laugh and fall off my chair! I hope it doesn’t occur, but I suspect Israeli troops have been told “it’s a free fire zone” (that would fit the definition of releasing all restraints on your soldiers) and anyone trapped there as Egypt has closed its border to fleeing Palestinians…will be murdered.

This is shaping up to look a little like a project in potential genocide under the cover of war. Again I hope not, with everything I am, but the dark ultra Orthodox Jews now in power in the Netanyahu government have the best opportunity to lay waste, once and for all, to the notion of a two state solution.

We live in eden and make it hell for one another. A plague on Hamas and a plague on Netanyahu and his monsters.

Fuck.


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“Develop an interest in life as you see it; in people, things, literature, music - the world is so rich, simply throbbing with rich treasures, beautiful souls and interesting people. Forget yourself.“

Henry Miller

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Onlinelifeiswhatyoumake
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Milleresque]
    #28499311 - 10/10/23 07:40 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

I really hope that doesn't happen, but you might be right.
It's always worth it to try to save every innocent life.
It's hard, but it's the right thing to do.

I mean, all Israel has to do is keep freakin' military at the border to watch out for attacks.  The more this goes on the more I feel like Israel purposely allowed their defenses to lower so they can justify this potential genocide.  It's just way too much of a failure to not be intentional.

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Milleresque] * 1
    #28499315 - 10/10/23 07:42 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Milleresque said:
This is shaping up to look a little like a project in potential genocide under the cover of war.




Nothing potential about it.

This is something I see with Ukraine, considering my exposure to media of both sides, where you start to pick up on small things. For example, I read an article the other day where the headline was something like "98 killed in Hamas Raid, 197 dead in Gaza"

What's the difference between "killed" and "dead"? What do those words imply? Which one has agency, and which one is a passive description of the situation? Why?

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Invisiblemycosis
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28499333 - 10/10/23 07:54 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

They say they’ve got a secret weapon and if Israel doesn’t quittit they’re gonna use it. :crankey:

https://twitter.com/Sprinter99800/status/1711893400738287659

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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: mycosis]
    #28499389 - 10/10/23 08:36 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

I just saw a news report that headlined : "" US intelligence hunts for evidence of Iranian involvement in Hamas attack .""
    My first thought was that they are literally posting pictures of Iranian missiles the size of king kings dick on social media .


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Psilynut2]
    #28499451 - 10/10/23 09:57 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

They also used primarily AR-15 pattern rifles, does this mean that the US is definitively involved in the attack as well?

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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #28499466 - 10/10/23 10:18 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Ya your right bro Iranian  weapons manufactures are probably selling those things in the side of the road to anyone .
    Or maybe you can just order all the parts online and put one together yourself , like an ar15 .

  If Hamas had used Himars in their attack would you assume they got them somewhere other than the US govt ?


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Edited by Psilynut2 (10/10/23 10:34 PM)

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Psilynut2]
    #28499487 - 10/10/23 10:54 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

If Hamas had used HIMARS I would assume that they were diverted from a shipment to Ukraine. I would not assume that the US supplied the rockets directly and willingly.

While Iran likely does want to arm Hamas, I really don't think they'd be stupid enough to do it directly in a world full of arms dealers and a major war of attrition in Europe, where war materials can quietly disappear and people won't notice.

Actually, having written all of that out...I would assume that these were rockets diverted from the Russian war effort, maybe.

Either way, as with my response to Metoo above, it seems that you are not equally applying your standard across the board. If the presence of Iranian designed weapons can be assumed evidence of Iranian involvement, why does the presence of US designed weapons not imply the same?

If US weapons can be acquired without the explicit blessing of the US, why would that not be true for Iran? Both the US and Iran have robust weapons industries and both countries are prolific exporters of weapons, often through vaguely criminal intermediaries.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28499489 - 10/10/23 10:58 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

I would not be surprised at all if Russia supported this attack. Seems exactly like the kind of fuckery they would get involved in


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineMilleresque
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods] * 3
    #28499539 - 10/11/23 12:41 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I would not be surprised at all if Russia supported this attack. Seems exactly like the kind of fuckery they would get involved in




I was waiting for this. Not from anyone in particular, but I knew it would happen. Koods, you won’t accept any of the “conspiracies” vis a vis the US backing, funding and delivering the various coups and geopolitical pressure that resulted in the present European quagmire (despite a near century long history of US foreign policy, including assassination, the training of death squads and the overthrowing of democratically elected governments)….

But it’s russias doing that Hamas did this? They instructed and/or funded and/or promoted this attack?Somehow Russia also ensured Israeli intelligence and defence was looking the other way. It’s  perfect!  and it all makes sense!

Give me a single credible source for that chain of suppositions, please. I’m laughing.

I’d be looking at US involvement before a single other foreign power. Not for involvement in Hama’s horrific attack, but the background of decades, of policies, of a distinct failure to rebuff or admonish the decidedly apartheid regime Israel has perpetrated over the Palestinian people.

Russia doesn’t even factor in this. It’s not their fault US involvement results in so much instability and degradation. But yes, I’m sure Putin is enjoying a quiet chuckle right now.



--------------------
“Develop an interest in life as you see it; in people, things, literature, music - the world is so rich, simply throbbing with rich treasures, beautiful souls and interesting people. Forget yourself.“

Henry Miller

Edited by Milleresque (10/11/23 12:48 AM)

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Offlinetwighead
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28499546 - 10/11/23 12:57 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
If Hamas had used HIMARS I would assume that they were diverted from a shipment to Ukraine. I would not assume that the US supplied the rockets directly and willingly.

While Iran likely does want to arm Hamas, I really don't think they'd be stupid enough to do it directly in a world full of arms dealers and a major war of attrition in Europe, where war materials can quietly disappear and people won't notice.

Actually, having written all of that out...I would assume that these were rockets diverted from the Russian war effort, maybe.

Either way, as with my response to Metoo above, it seems that you are not equally applying your standard across the board. If the presence of Iranian designed weapons can be assumed evidence of Iranian involvement, why does the presence of US designed weapons not imply the same?

If US weapons can be acquired without the explicit blessing of the US, why would that not be true for Iran? Both the US and Iran have robust weapons industries and both countries are prolific exporters of weapons, often through vaguely criminal intermediaries.



The analysis is good n' all but it's fact that Hamas receives the majority of their funding via Iran since 2006 when Saudi Arabia bailed on them.


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OfflineIce9
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #28499701 - 10/11/23 07:00 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I would not be surprised at all if Russia supported this attack. Seems exactly like the kind of fuckery they would get involved in



There are reports captured US "trophy" weapons were transfered from Russia to HAMAS for this attack to undermine the US arming Ukraine. :shrug:


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28499710 - 10/11/23 07:16 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

. If the presence of Iranian designed weapons can be assumed evidence of Iranian involvement, why does the presence of US designed weapons not imply the same?



 
    Because you comparing rifles that any of us can purchase parts for and assemble at home to a giant sophisticated missile that has to be stolen and looks impossible to hide .
    How the fuck are you going to steal a missile so large it needs a giant truck to be driven around on from Iran and then get it to Palestine with no one noticing ?
  You aren't applying the most basic level of rational thought to this .

    You really think the us or Iran could lose equipment like that without knowing exactly where it is ?


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods] * 1
    #28499715 - 10/11/23 07:29 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I would not be surprised at all if Russia supported this attack. Seems exactly like the kind of fuckery they would get involved in




I think Putin and North Korea and Venezuela and Cuba and Iran teamed up in their secret volcano lair to launch the most diabolical plan against Israel ever formulated (paraglide out of Gaza because Bibi ignored Egypt’s warning).

Sounds exactly like the type of thing I’d make up in my head.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Ice9] * 1
    #28499718 - 10/11/23 07:30 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
Quote:

koods said:
I would not be surprised at all if Russia supported this attack. Seems exactly like the kind of fuckery they would get involved in



There are reports captured US "trophy" weapons were transfered from Russia to HAMAS for this attack to undermine the US arming Ukraine. :shrug:




That’s ridiculous though because how could there be blowback from US military involvement?

If there’s precedent for this, I’m sorry, I was born 4 days ago.


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