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The Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Blind Ass]
#28503061 - 10/13/23 09:53 AM (7 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Hypothetically speaking, what would happen if the US doesn't render any support to the Israeli so long as they commit to mass killing their neighbors over this recent attack?
ie. remains completely neutral? what's the status-quo about how that plays out? someone enlighten me, pls.
The US would have to make some convincing declaration or meaningful action to prove this neutrality.
Doing nothing means the status quo doesn’t really change. The carrier they moved off the coast is, as someone else correctly said, a deterrent to other powers in the region. The US won’t directly participate in the ethnic cleansing, we’ll just make sure nobody stops it. That’s our “neutrality.”
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The Blind Ass
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#28503072 - 10/13/23 10:02 AM (7 months, 1 day ago) |
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Meh...I understand the significance of our navy simply stationing certain vessels in the adjacent areas, however, my question was one of if we remained neutral, as in, truly neutral. No aid, the ship is offering aid via deterrence and or with the potential possibility of more if push came to shove, so to speak.
Truly neutral, imho, that would entail said ships leaving said area, we fuck off, and pretend as hard as possible as if nothing is happening until something makes that completely impossible. Like the good old days? Idk.
It was just a hypothetical. Purely out of curiosity.
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B Traven
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Blind Ass]
#28503073 - 10/13/23 10:03 AM (7 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Hypothetically speaking, what would happen if the US doesn't render any support to the Israelis so long as they commit to highly questionable mass killing & other shenanigans of an unethical/immoral nature wrt their neighbors over the most recent major attack?
ie. remains completely neutral? what's the status-quo, projection-wise/simulation-wise...w/e... about how that all would play out? someone enlighten me, pls.
I'd like to think there could be some sort of middle path, potentially, where they provide a basic amount of support for anti-terrorist police and security measures while engaging with Israel on human rights issues. You know, a "we'll help you intercept missiles, but won't pay for bulldozers" type deal. I think even a shift of the political dialogue in the US would influence Israeli politics and policy to some extent.
There is no universe anywhere in which the US doesn't count Israel as an ally. It's been a fundamental part of the project from day 1. The US is also a nominally democratic country with the second-largest Jewish population in the world. And then, of course, there's all the fundamentalist Christian nutjobs who revere that particular patch of desert over all others, and want to do whatever they can to bring on The Rapture...
This might sound dumb, but I honestly think the solution lies in immigration reform in other countries. It would deprive both extremes of the captive populations they rely on for support.
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Edited by B Traven (10/13/23 10:04 AM)
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Enlil
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven] 5
#28503077 - 10/13/23 10:06 AM (7 months, 1 day ago) |
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Whatever we say here on this drug forum, Israel will absolutely commit mass murder on civilians in the coming weeks. That's unavoidable. Similarly, it is unavoidable that Hamas, or its successor(s) will regroup and find a way to commit mass murder on civilians in Israel. This cycle isn't going to stop anytime soon, and the world will keep spinning.
Deciding who is justified in a situation like this would necessarily be arbitrary. None of it is justified. All of it is barbaric. That shouldn't be surprising, given the barbaric nature of humans.
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The Blind Ass
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven]
#28503089 - 10/13/23 10:15 AM (7 months, 1 day ago) |
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A change in the media influence and portrayal of the situation would be a great start, i wasn't literally proposing uber-neutrality, i just wanted to know if anyone know of any simulated scenarios that might've been run by some of the galaxybrainbois or whomever does that sort of thing ~ mostly as concerning potential outcomes of said action, or, rather, inaction.
That's more so what I was hoping for. I'll look into it myself later, it's more than likely not ever going to happen, but, like I said - twas asked out of pure curiosity.
Anyways, the middle way is generally what I'd opt for in most cases too. The thing is, proposing things like immigration reform, at least for the time being, isn't likely a primary focus of Yahoo's team / military/gov's gameplan.
Might be nice, esp if others play along nice with it (which is usually not the case, but it still happens) just that it does not seem a realistic move to make atm unfortunately.
...esp not with the Holy LandTM being in jeopardy. 
it's hell on earth for some no matter what. like enlil said, (in short) shit's going down no matter what, and it's going to be fucked for everyone, more or less.
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Kryptos
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Blind Ass] 1
#28503130 - 10/13/23 10:45 AM (7 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: We're similar in that regard then. Sometimes, it might...sometimes. I've seen it happen many a time, i've also seen nothing really happen wrt 'becalming hostility from the inside out' , so to speak.
That's why I mentioned the incapacitation part after the earlier idea... as a secondary measure to cover my bases. Either way, hell of a lot better than death, that's final. That's all i'm saying.
The looneys are too pissed off, out for blood, and are on all sides of the dispute, despite many of their own brethren - probably most?idk - basically being saner, chiller, and like, wtf..no...lets not kill each other like tards.
Not that the latter will be able to do much against the former in the immediate with tensions so damn high already and so much blood spilled over the years and now, well...all this new blood being spilled.
I guess I mentioned it at all because with everything that's happened since hell...the first battle/war in history, why the fuck haven't things like what I mentioned been utilized appropriately as non-lethal measures before things go right to declaring war or near it? It is feasible, relatively cheap af, and incredibly effective a measure to stop anyone from doing anything but groveling on the ground drooling, maybe having a whiteout (psychedelic ver of a blackout/ incapacitated fully) and tripping balls having deep blissful dreams and or nightmares. I bet a few would just say fuck it, if they somehow remained fully lucid and awake afterwards to see all the mayhem with their mind fully psychedelicized to the nth degree.
I would, 'this shit's too insane, i'm out, peace' - either way - whomever used it the other...they'd be in no way, shape, or form able to fight back for the most part for hours at a time, and, with the right assortment of psychoactives being rotated in periodically and used in appropriate measures and all that - for the lsd/psilo/and or whatever other countless suitable chemical agents of that nature which can be used, something like Hamas could basically be nullified before it could do anymore real signifcant damage. Hostages and shit could then be taken back after searching - lots of shit. Just think it through more. Idk, maybe its total shit. Still, better than a bullet, flames, choking to death, or blowing up, bleeding out, etc.
Some might die, likely even - if that kind of thing were to be used on a massive scale, but it'd be like a drop in the bucket compared to anything remotely close to modern warfare - guerilla/terrorista styled, 1st world style, or otherwise. At least it has the potential to create a long enough of a gap in the situation, a pause of sorts, so that cooler heads might step in and prevail before the hotheads blew each other to smithereens, taking whoever else might be caught in the crossfire with them or whatnot.
Meh, I'm disappointed it hasn't been used on a massive scale...sue me. Just trust me, its better than what they're going to likely do, and whatever they become from doing so in the eyes of the world at large afterwards is largely going to fuck them out of the ol sympathy garnered from the ' ww2 nazi gas chamber / history has sucked for us - so you'd better back us b/c remember our history? kind of an attitude' - not that their 'enemies' are any cooler or better, hell they should do the same imho... fuck it. 
Operation Moneybags.
Biggest problem is delivery of agent to target in an adequate fashion, which simultaneously guarantees proper dosage of every combatant while avoiding...well, this. Which would be very similar to a WWI era chemical attack, the quintessentially foundational definition of a warcrime.
Otherwise, if the problem of dosage and delivery were to be resolved (which is a goddamn big IF) I agree, this would be a pretty useful weapon.
Quote:
SirTripAlot said:
Quote:
Kryptos said:
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SirTripAlot said: Nice fantasy. Seems like the Jews got some land....not so much for Palestine. Still waiting on your claim that Iseralis shot 10,000 people in 2018. Additionally, do you have a link for the Jewsih Partaisians specifically targeting the civilian populace of Poland? I am genuinely curious.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%932019_Gaza_border_protests#Casualties
Total casualties for Gaza was around 10,000, compared to 5 casualties for Israel. Majority were GSW, but it seems some 3k were only injured by tear gas or shrapnel.
As for partisans targeting civilians, that's kind of how a resistance works. Occupiers necessarily use the civilian population as meat shields, either by putting their command structures within civilian locations, or through reprisal, or through collaborators.
Probably the hardest part of being a resistance fighter...you will need to kill innocent civilians to significantly target occupiers, because they integrate their power structures into the civilian life of the occupied nation. Kinda like the Heydrich example I used earlier. The decision was made that being able to reach out and touch nazi leadership, to make them actually fear for their safety, was worth the sacrifice of hundreds of innocent civilian lives in reprisals.
Here is my source (one, mind you that is not cherry picked for the sympthay of the Jewish state):
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2018/10/gaza-great-march-of-return/
According to the Al Mezan Center for Human Rights, since the start of the protests, over 150 Palestinians have been killed in the demonstrations. At least 10,000 others have been injured, including 1,849 children, 424 women, 115 paramedics and 115 journalists. Of those injured, 5,814 were hit by live ammunition. According to Israeli media, one soldier was moderately injured due to shrapnel from a grenade thrown by a Palestinian from inside Gaza and one Israeli soldier was killed by Palestinian sniper fire near the fence that separates Gaza and Israel outside of the context of the protests.
......While some protesters have engaged in some forms of violence including by burning tyres, flying incendiary kites or throwing stones and Molotov cocktails in the direction of Israeli soldiers, social media videos, as well as eyewitness testimonies gathered by Amnesty International, Palestinian and Israeli human rights groups show that Israeli soldiers shot unarmed protesters, bystanders, journalists and medical staff approximately 150-400m from the fence, where they did not pose any threat. ----------------------------------------- So, you mean to tell me innocent people got shot because of some minority faction decided to commit violence on the border, when the military is there. ? Was the response overwhelming, yes, I will take that as a valid criticism. Will you admit that is just wasn't clapping and singing?
Victim blaming? Geeze, another buzz word that is overused. Again, I have stated that Iseralis are not infallible , but to state that any action in response to this makes it right, I will never agree to.
I think our sources say essentially the same thing. Matter of fact I think we're generally in agreement. I don't believe that the march itself was 100% peaceful, but I think it is entirely fair to compare it to the situation of the BLM riots in 2020. A very small minority of shit stirrers were obviously present, as they always are. But if you're a soldier, holding a rifle and wearing combat armor...yeah, I'm gonna say you don't get to claim "proportional self defense" with your rifle unless we're talking about a dozen rock throwers per soldier. Step out of the way. A chain of disproportionate responses easily turns a rock into a missile.
That's kind of the problem with violence, it rapidly escalates. I believe you have a military background. Remember assault tactics 101? What are the two primary schools of thought when it comes to assaulting a fortified position? Both approaches necessarily lead to an escalation. Now, apply the same logic on a smaller or larger scale. After all, a rock thrown at a protest...only happens under the conditions of one of those two schools of basic assault theory. Same as fights between different groups of animals. 1.5x theory.
Nobody is right in this situation. Righteousness has left the building long ago. Personally, I am not interested in which side is right because both of them are wrong. My interest lies primarily in understanding their motivations. That's how I approach this topic.
Edit: That's how I try to approach every topic--I try to put myself into the shoes of every actor, and essentially game theory against myself to figure out their goals. Sometimes it works, sometimes I am insanely off the mark. Like when I claimed that Putin would never invade Ukraine. That required a complete rebuild of my personal mental map of Putin.
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Meh...I understand the significance of our navy simply stationing certain vessels in the adjacent areas, however, my question was one of if we remained neutral, as in, truly neutral. No aid, the ship is offering aid via deterrence and or with the potential possibility of more if push came to shove, so to speak.
Truly neutral, imho, that would entail said ships leaving said area, we fuck off, and pretend as hard as possible as if nothing is happening until something makes that completely impossible. Like the good old days? Idk.
It was just a hypothetical. Purely out of curiosity. 
Current status quo also appears to be US navy carrier group unloading weapons and ammo for Israel to use. We are definitely not neutral by any definition.
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Generally agree with Traven on solutions. Immigration reform to starve the human resources of both sides would solve the problem. However, other ways of starving human resources would work too. Give them something to do that doesn't involve sitting around bored.
Edited by Kryptos (10/13/23 10:58 AM)
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B Traven
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Blind Ass]
#28503159 - 10/13/23 11:07 AM (7 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Meh...I understand the significance of our navy simply stationing certain vessels in the adjacent areas, however, my question was one of if we remained neutral, as in, truly neutral. No aid, the ship is offering aid via deterrence and or with the potential possibility of more if push came to shove, so to speak.
Truly neutral, imho, that would entail said ships leaving said area, we fuck off, and pretend as hard as possible as if nothing is happening until something makes that completely impossible. Like the good old days? Idk.
It was just a hypothetical. Purely out of curiosity. 
Yeah, I got you, and I hear that.
Just like California would never secede from the US, but it's interesting to think about.
I still think it's interesting, and worth keeping in mind, that a LOT of US intervention and foreign policy is motivated or triggered by the presence of US citizens in a country. In the case of the Caribbean and Latin America, it's usually business interests. In the case of Israel, it's a TON of dual citizens.
That's obviously not the only factor, but it definitely contributes to the US treating Israel like the Whatever-th state-or-territory we'd be on after counting all of them.
Hell, "there are Americans there we need to save" is how we ended up with Texas.
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Edited by B Traven (10/13/23 11:09 AM)
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Kryptos
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven] 1
#28503200 - 10/13/23 11:39 AM (7 months, 1 day ago) |
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Less motivated and more triggered by.
It's a common tactic. Israel is actually the best example of it (settlers in Palestine needing protection), but Russia has used it in both Ukraine and Chechnya, and the US has used it as well.
Essentially, you send your citizens into danger so that you have an excuse to wipe out the enemy in retaliation.
Israel did it with the settlements, Russia did it in Donbass with Putin's little green men. The US does it is a much more cleverly disguised way: tourism. US citizens are told they can go anywhere, because if they go to dangerous areas, that gives the US military a good reason to step in and "democratize" the situation.
Quite literally this:
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven] 1
#28503232 - 10/13/23 11:59 AM (7 months, 1 day ago) |
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@ Kryptos:
The Moscow mishap/tragedy (iirc) involved some fentalogue-like agent, or some other narcotic, maybe a sedative/hypnotic, idk. There are pages in books worth chems that can be used that aren't lethal, generally speaking - some with LD50s wrt Humans as such that it makes them almost fool-proof in that highly divergent dosage variance in the peoples affected when spread over large areas via aerosolized particles, using crop-dusting-like methods with drones, choppers, planes, grenades, or, in the food & water/drink supply etc - won't lead to nearly as much death.
Even if some get a ton and others maybe not as much, still enough hopefully to no longer be able to carry out their duties, may as well - beats forever being dead...usually in a highly unpleasant manner, too. 
Ahh, found it... Regarding the incicent in Moscow? A study published in 2012 concluded that it had been a mixture of carfentanil and remifentanyl.
Kinda idiotic a class of chemical to use like that - if you're trying to incapacitate yet be as non-lethal as possible - not to mention those specific substances themselves, and, mixed too - to use them like that in the area they did, I have to wonder if someone didn't do the mathz well enough...either on dispersion, distribution, and or duration/potency, etc etc. Who knows? But, when delivered as it was throughout the area of intended usage, even if they did calculate it out right...considering all of what else is available in the total arsenal of modern day pharmacopeia? Could've achieved incapacitation without casualties, unless some inside had serious health complications, or certain one's that don't mix well with any narcs of any kind, etc. Idk, it just seems like they made a ridiculous choice to me. 
Why use some of the most deadliest of pharma's chems known to easily kill a human with such tiny amounts that handeling the stuff is a pain in the fucking ass - lethal in what..the low ug range or something - even in healthy mature adults? lol...ayiyi.. I can kind of understand what they were getting at or what they were going for, still - bad choice compared to the one's i'd be crop-dusting those blood feuding mofos with rn if I could instead of killing them outright with whatever they're bound to get slaughtered with/by.  Anywho, That was in Russia, so...yeah, Russia...idk... 
@ B Traven
Some Evangelical Americans are batshit about Jesusland Jerusalem, also, likely would want to see it officially recognized as Israel's, if not their own, if they could. 
Check this -
Quote:
The Holy Land Experience (HLE) was a Christian amusement park in Orlando, Florida and registered non-profit corporation. HLE conducted weekly church services and bible studies for the general public. HLE's theme park recreated the architecture and themes of the ancient city of Jerusalem in 1st-century Judaea.
Also, apparently there was another one like it beforehand sometime during the 60's located somewhere in CT, USA. Life's weird.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Blind Ass]
#28503233 - 10/13/23 12:01 PM (7 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Meh...I understand the significance of our navy simply stationing certain vessels in the adjacent areas, however, my question was one of if we remained neutral, as in, truly neutral. No aid, the ship is offering aid via deterrence and or with the potential possibility of more if push came to shove, so to speak.
Truly neutral, imho, that would entail said ships leaving said area, we fuck off, and pretend as hard as possible as if nothing is happening until something makes that completely impossible. Like the good old days? Idk.
It was just a hypothetical. Purely out of curiosity. 
If that was the case it would be over rather quickly. No one to keep the GCC and Egypt in line, especially now that relations are thawing between the former and Iran.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Blind Ass] 3
#28503234 - 10/13/23 12:02 PM (7 months, 1 day ago) |
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We got taken on multiple field trips there in high school (NE Florida).
Truly a batshit place, I did get a handjob there though so it’s not all bad.
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B Traven
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#28503235 - 10/13/23 12:06 PM (7 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Truly a batshit place, I did get a handjob there though so it’s not all bad.
Church girls, amirite?
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The Blind Ass
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#28503236 - 10/13/23 12:06 PM (7 months, 1 day ago) |
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Wait, do you mean at The Holy Land park or??? 
that would be hilarious. must've been quite the gal. 
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The Ecstatic
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven] 1
#28503237 - 10/13/23 12:07 PM (7 months, 1 day ago) |
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[Quote:
B Traven said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Truly a batshit place, I did get a handjob there though so it’s not all bad.
Church girls, amirite?
She was Catholic I guess, hated church though lol
This was public school, believe it or not. They took us there under the guise of “history.” Not sure what we were supposed to learn from cartoon Moses or the breakdancing Jesus but the hj was decent.
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The Blind Ass
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#28503241 - 10/13/23 12:11 PM (7 months, 1 day ago) |
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God Bless America.
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chopstick
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https://t.me/antinatocoalition/13021
JUST IN: Israel bombs a civilian convoy that was evacuating out of Gaza city, on the road they promised not to bomb
At least 70 killed and 200 injured.
Typical Israel shit. Our world is going to shit and I don't know what can stop it now. If Hezbollah along with the rest of the resistance axis does nothing, Gaza will be wiped out and the West will cheer on and applaud the slaughter of 2 million people.
Israel is a cancer and whoever's idea it was to create it in the first place, has doomed this world to eternal strife.
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lifeiswhatyoumake


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: chopstick] 1
#28503285 - 10/13/23 01:04 PM (7 months, 1 day ago) |
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Do you happen to have video or pics of that happening? What time did it happen at? Any other details? I'm just trying to get all the facts and evidence we can. What road did this happen on?
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Stable Genius
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Ice9
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
#28503320 - 10/13/23 02:07 PM (7 months, 1 day ago) |
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What the fuck is "terriosm"?
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
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Asante
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
#28503321 - 10/13/23 02:08 PM (7 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
chopstick said: JUST IN: Israel bombs a civilian convoy that was evacuating out of Gaza city, on the road they promised not to bomb
At least 70 killed and 200 injured.
I'd like to see this debunked, but its totally plausible.
For someone who hammers hard on the holocaust, the similatities with how the Palestinians are dealt with are very uncomfortable.
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