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OfflineKizzle
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28547783 - 11/18/23 11:10 AM (2 months, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
https://twitter.com/Israel/status/1723971340825186754

Omg... the propganda is SO BAD.. Apparently Israel supports the gays in Gaza... while they're bombing them..



I'm pretty sure it's meant to humiliate Hamas more than anything.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake] * 1
    #28550452 - 11/20/23 03:12 PM (2 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
No, but it does mean that you are unwilling to do the most basic of preparation for a discussion on politics.

Or, you're just being disingenuous and arguing semantics in an effort to move the goalposts. Really giving off FW vibes here.





You're overthinking it.
I just asked for a source to the claim 12,000 civilians are killed thus by IDF.
That's it.



The source is the people that benefit politically from these numbers. Fortunately no one ever lies during war so we can trust them.


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake] * 1
    #28551247 - 11/21/23 08:32 AM (2 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
Yes, civilians are non-combat by definition.
And true, I'm sure some airstrikes have missed their target and hit civilians, unfortunately.

There's talks of a ceasefire potentially coming to fruition any hour... https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/white-house-says-israel-hamas-hostage-deal-closer-than-before-2023-11-21/



It's not that the strikes are missing. It's that there are civilians at the places they're attacking. Hamas doesn't keep their weapon caches confined to bases. They stash them in civilian areas to deter them from being destroyed. The only way to win a war is to destroy the weapons so there are going to be a lot of deaths because of this.


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Tulipslave] * 1
    #28551318 - 11/21/23 09:20 AM (2 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Tulipslave said:
Quote:

Kizzle said:
Quote:

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
Yes, civilians are non-combat by definition.
And true, I'm sure some airstrikes have missed their target and hit civilians, unfortunately.

There's talks of a ceasefire potentially coming to fruition any hour... https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/white-house-says-israel-hamas-hostage-deal-closer-than-before-2023-11-21/



It's not that the strikes are missing. It's that there are civilians at the places they're attacking. Hamas doesn't keep their weapon caches confined to bases. They stash them in civilian areas to deter them from being destroyed. The only way to win a war is to destroy the weapons so there are going to be a lot of deaths because of this.






Has there been undeniable proof of this?

Or is this something else Israeli officials/IDF are claiming?



No proof is undeniable to someone who wants to deny it. Do you deny that Israel tries to evacutate these areas before they attack? Because there's massive evidence of that happening. This isn't because of their great love for the Palastinean people or anything but because Israel isn't stupid. They know civilian deaths cause them to lose support and encourage attacks from other powers and they genuinely try to avoid them.


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28552150 - 11/21/23 09:02 PM (2 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Nah, I think it just means IDF intel is spottier than they claim. They didn't find a Hamas command center, they just assumed it would be there.



The US also had intelligence that it was being used for military purposes. The tunnels would have made it possible to move stuff out of there so who knows.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28553232 - 11/22/23 07:57 PM (2 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
https://twitter.com/realrobdurden/status/1725612273778004362

Daaayum... The BBC is calling out Israel. This is crazy.

Israel doesn't understand that their whole existence relies on managing PR, and they are fucking it up royally.



Neither does the Democratic Party. I don't know what's going through President Sad Sack's head because there's a significant number of voters who are now refusing to vote for him and he's doing nothing to address that. He's made no effort to justify the war or the high death count and he won't even pretend he's looking for a peaceful solution.


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28554443 - 11/23/23 08:53 PM (2 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Hey, you can't expect him to change his fundamental support for Israel by pointing out that Hamas is incapable of committing a genocide no matter how much they want it. Maybe they have a wunderwaffe.



Arguably this whole war is a direct result of underestimating what Hamas is capable of so it seems like a fair point.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28560710 - 11/29/23 12:40 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

Quote:

The hostages that Israel is releasing are often children who have been locked up without trial, for years. They didn't just get taken hostage a month ago. It's a much bigger deal, every hostage Palestine frees.



Children who attacked people. They weren't just people snatched up off the street like the actual hostages. There's no equivalence here.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28560723 - 11/29/23 12:45 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

There's a difference between a shitty justice system and kidnaping people to use as bargaining chips.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #28560733 - 11/29/23 12:53 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

I'm not justifying anything. There's a difference between arresting someone for a crime and capturing civilians. You can even argue it's just as bad and that doesn't make them hostages.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #28560798 - 11/29/23 01:27 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Kizzle said:
I'm not justifying anything. There's a difference between arresting someone for a crime and capturing civilians. You can even argue it's just as bad and that doesn't make them hostages.




Holding someone without charge, against their will... Makes them a fucking hostage dude.



No it doesn't. Holding someone without charge, against their will, with the sole intent to giving them back in exchange for something makes them hostages.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28563544 - 12/01/23 09:59 AM (1 month, 26 days ago)

Israel still thinks it can win the PR battle with censorship and when that falls they're like, "I guess everyone just hates Jews":shrug:


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28563930 - 12/01/23 03:05 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

Quote:

GenesisCorrupted said:
Couldn’t the argument be made that it was intentionally ignored so that they could go forward with the general genocide that they are doing now?



By ignore it you must mean they didn't immediately declare war and destroy Hamas like they're doing now because that's what preventing it would have taken. So which train of thought do you think was going through Netanyahu's head...

"We shouldn't go to war over this because doing so would result in large amounts of collateral damage and ruin all our attempts to imrpove relations with other countries and I doubt Hamas could pull it off anyway"

or

"I think I'd like to destroy myself politically by allowing 1200 Israelis to die on my watch that way a fraction of a percent of the population of Gaza will die muhahaha."


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
    #28564026 - 12/01/23 04:44 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

Quote:

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
Why would Israel have their border so weak and vulnerable when they know the people on the other side have a sophisticated plan to attack them?!



They didn't really. Israel has one of the most well protected borders in the world. I'd like to think this was karma, that maybe if Israel wasn't diverting so many military resources to protect illegal settlements the attack would have failed. Although I don't actually believe in karma.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28564475 - 12/01/23 09:24 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Kizzle said:
Quote:

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
Why would Israel have their border so weak and vulnerable when they know the people on the other side have a sophisticated plan to attack them?!



They didn't really. Israel has one of the most well protected borders in the world. I'd like to think this was karma, that maybe if Israel wasn't diverting so many military resources to protect illegal settlements the attack would have failed. Although I don't actually believe in karma.




Why are you making bogus ass excuses for Israel, when the truth is quite clear. This reminds me of the Nordstream pipeline situation. The president straight up said he would end the pipeline. A very credible journalist, who has been known to have sources in high levels of government his entire life reported what happened... And people want to play like there's some ambiguity. There's not.



The truth is by no means clear. The only thing that is clear is that there was a large coordinated attack that overwhelmed the forces in the area. I don't know why you would believe something so nonsensical without evidence.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28566072 - 12/02/23 10:21 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)

Quote:

GenesisCorrupted said:
Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

Quite possibly, maybe even probably.



    Not much say I have no confidence in my answer and can't back up my claim the way that does .  Did they redeploy troops to the West Bank  because there were violent activities occurring there ?



Even if there were. They knew for a fact, an attack was going to happen on the other side.
Bad time for you to reevaluate where your troops are.IMO



I don't think you understand how militaries operate. They create all sorts of plans ahead of time and most never get carried out. There was no date for the attack in those documents. Hamas saw Israel had moved their troops from the area and took advantage of it.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28566618 - 12/03/23 11:21 AM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
I have no opinion on the Israel knew but let it happen theory.
But if they knew and acted preemptively with enough force to stop the attack, Israel would have got a lot of negative publicity for that too. Many civilian lives and others would have been saved, but we wouldn't know about that.



It could have saved Israeli lives but it wouldn't have prevented the war and that's one of the reasons the theory makes no sense. Even if no civilians died in the attack it would still be more than enough justification for war. I guess it makes sense to some people that Israel has flawless intel on everything, are incapable of making mistakes and just wanted to look incompentent for some reason.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #28567484 - 12/03/23 08:22 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Factcheck.org

lmao... Ok dude.



Yeah, fact checking is ridiculous. Obviouslu if it's pro-Hamas it's the word of truth itself.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28567561 - 12/03/23 09:31 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

And that's a very different conclusion than what you might come to without fact checking. There's simply no evidence that this happened.


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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
    #28567633 - 12/03/23 10:42 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

Well I meant you in the general sense. Bigbadwooof scoffed at the idea of using factcheck.org even though it's a legitimate tool for fact checking.


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