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gww
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: koods]
#28497141 - 10/08/23 09:40 PM (3 months, 18 days ago) |
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There is no getting around that killing over 200 civilians at a music festival can not be justified by acts of some government they don't like. They probably killed some of their own in this. This is not the kind of accident that happens because people were around somebody important and it was collateral damage or one of their fire crackers malfunctioned and didn't go where the tried for it to go. Cheers
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gww
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#28502918 - 10/13/23 07:54 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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If part of your charter for even being is to kill jews, me being just one of those simple thinkers mentioned above. Simple is to remember that it only takes one to make war.
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gww
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos] 1
#28505726 - 10/15/23 03:31 PM (3 months, 11 days ago) |
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I hear hamas is bombing the escape routes to keep the Palestine people from evacuating. All things counted, hamas are the animals made out by their actions and like a rabid dog, they can not be lived with and the people that voted them in before they just took over being used as shields does not change that. It sucks for the Palestine people but there is really no choice but to try and destroy hamas. They are making both sides suffer more then with out them. Just something that has to be understood. The Palestine people should run from them or rat them out and they may save themselves some suffering.
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gww
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven]
#28506055 - 10/15/23 08:37 PM (3 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
B Traven said:
Quote:
sudly said:
Quote:
B Traven said:
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sudly said: Iz about to be a genocide of a million kids yo. The calls for collective punishment about to be real.
Well, those children should have thought about that when they voted Hamas into power.
Yes, the children who voted..
Hamas took over Gaza in 2007. Gaza 2007
Precisely my point.
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gww said: they can not be lived with and the people that voted them in before they just took over being used as shields does not change that
64 percent of the population in Gaza is under the age of 25. So they were aged 10 or under the last time an election was held. 30 percent of the population is in the 25-54 age range, and a decent chunk of them were probably also too young to vote in that election. I think it's safe to say that at least 3/4ths of the current population didn't vote for Hamas in that election, and we'll never know how many of the remaining ones were pressured, the result of fraud, etc.
It is a good point with the vote part. However, If hamas is stopping people that want to leave, even the people who did vote way back then should be helping destroy them cause hamas hiding behind them is trouble for them.
Israel is not really in a position to let them go and plan another surprise. It is why snipers take the shot when they have a kidnaper threating to hurt a hostage or school shooting. The difference is both sides here have bigger guns and so more risk.
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gww
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven]
#28506456 - 10/16/23 07:23 AM (3 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
B Traven said: Simple what-if thought experiment:
The "people of Gaza" somehow manage to overthrow Hamas. They've had enough of their bullshit, and also a bunch of fighters within Hamas have become disillusioned after a successful entheogen-dosing operation. It all goes pretty smoothly, too. There are naturally some bumps in the road, but they take out all the top guys and set up a basic and practical interim government. Despite misgivings, people have a collective vision and realize that giving up the worst war criminals from their side to the IDF will garner much goodwill, and create an international photo op.
Iran, meanwhile, also sees regime change. While The Scorpions play over the news footage, Iran miraculously transforms into the cosmopolitan place it was in the 70's, minus the corrupt Shah. All the proxy war funding ends overnight.
Now, does anyone seriously think that in this scenario, Netanyahu will just say, ok, cool, now that you guys are playing ball, we'll help you out and stop fucking with you?
This whole "they need to get rid of Hamas" narrative is just an extension of Likud propaganda. While Hamas sucks and needs to go, their disappearance wouldn't actually help Gaza with their fundamental problems.
In the end though, the problems are real and current. Problems probably never disappear everywhere at once but are more a one step forward two steps back process. Right now, Israel has no choice. This is regardless of the past or of the future but just now where they are. Palestine now has no choice cause the deed can not be undone. Does the deed help them or hurt them? It seems it will cause two steps back to me cause they no longer have the high ground.
The hamas charter in regards to Israel has never allowed for a different out come as well. The way the gaza strip came to be has to be the subtext of the Israeli position and perhaps attitude from them. I am not sure even of the right or wrongness over all but just that it is what it is and they have no choice. Palestine Choices may suck as well but they do have leaders with a charter. They also acted on the charter as an avenue to stop other avenues from having any chance. In fact, it was a goal to curtail other avenues that (in my mind) would not leave them as the boss. Is there an answer or just no choice?
Edited by gww (10/16/23 07:29 AM)
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gww
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven]
#28506549 - 10/16/23 09:00 AM (3 months, 10 days ago) |
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What I am saying is hamas is real and because of that there are victims everywhere on all sides regardless of individuals and it is why individuals are going to reap suffering. It is a problem that has to be taken care of and like any medicine, it might have undesirable side effects. It is because of hamas power that there are any possibility of side effects and only when that disease is cured, other avenues can be taken on the rest and be based on right or wrong. It is hamas being strong enough to hurt all around it that is a current problem. This does not mean there are no other problems but does not make this problem not real either. The whole point is the victims don't have choice on either side due to the tumor of hamas. If a tumor was in my gallbladder and was going to kill me, removing it is going to hurt things on me that are ok but everything will be hurt on me if it is not removed.
Judging hamas is fair. Lots of other things to judge but this is one that on it own can and should be judged.
Edited by gww (10/16/23 09:12 AM)
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gww
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven]
#28506645 - 10/16/23 09:57 AM (3 months, 10 days ago) |
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I am arguing nothing but that hamas is an evil entity due to it's own actions that has left all no choice but to reject and squash them. The thing that started our interaction was me mentioning hamas was working at stopping its own side from complying an evacuation order that would leave them exposed if followed. They would have no civilians left to hide behind.
Israel going after people that committed a criminal act and will do it again if given the chance is self defense and they really have no choice in it. hamas is not going to give its self up and may think it is right to boot. They took a route to address their problem the way they did and we are where we are with what comes from that.
You may be correct on why hamas exist. Doesn't change that it can not be lived with on what they did. Hamas justified killing civilians. You call my positions justify killing civilians, I call it a bad situation with risk that have to be taken not by choice but due to criminal acts by others that have to be addressed and was not ask for. I have no doubt that Israel would have rather this not have happened and no choice would have to be made.
Two people can be on an argument and have both legitimate points in the argument. None of this changes that hamas did what it did and it has to be addressed. Had they not, this right now would not be happening and those other problems would have what ever legitimacy they have.
By the way, Palestine civilians are not the target, they are the shields that hamas is trying to use. That is bad for all except hamas.
Edited by gww (10/16/23 10:09 AM)
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gww
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: B Traven]
#28506705 - 10/16/23 10:43 AM (3 months, 10 days ago) |
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I will put on more thing out there so people don't think I am genocidal towards the Palestine people. Israel gave a thousand prisoners to get one solder hostage back. Right now hamas has hundreds of hostages. Israel has no choice but to address what hamas did and it will not just be palistine civilians at risk but more, this is the problem that is facing Israel that hamas created and hamas has to be addressed. They left no easy way and it is one of the reasons they just have to be disrupted. It is just something that can not be lived with. It is in the purist sense self defense. It will not be free for Israel.
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gww
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TQuote:
lifeiswhatyoumake said:
Quote:
gww said: Right now, Israel has no choice.
I disagree. Israel could simply staff their border like any intelligent country would do. Don't let enemies walk through your border wall with no resistance, that's pathetic and inexcusable. Just have snipers set up on Gaza 24/7, waiting for known targets to appear and just blow their brains out. Or use some of those American missiles that have no blast radius and simply cut through their intended target directly. No need to kill millions of possible civilians.
I think Netanyahu is overreacting because he is a criminal and has a small pp. And obviously I don't support HAMAS.
The enemy did not walk through, they blew holes in the fence. Too late to be fixated on security failure that already happened. Not that is does not need to be looked at. It is a bit of hyperbole to say millions of dead civilians are possible unless you think they are going to drop a bomb. I think Netanyahu is showing signs of fascist traits with some of his domestic moves with his own populace but that is a different problem. Walking through or blowing a fence and not just being an political enemy but killing a bunch of civilians taking hostages makes them past a danger now. It only takes one to make war and so they did. As bad as their war is, it is a war against both peoples. I doubt snipers have much effect on the missiles they were also lobbing over.
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gww
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Yet I did say this on security.
Quote:
Not that is does not need to be looked at.
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gww
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Hamas has said they have already killed 20 hostages. I can't see kicking down on past security mistakes that can not change this situation that is now. That does not mean there may not be a time for heads to roll over it but the pain is real where we are now and that has to be addressed now. I have no doubt that hamas wants a response in the hopes Israel will lose the high ground with said response. There is nothing good here for anybody but for now the blame is not on both feet. hamas needs destroyed for this current action hopefully before they kill all the hostages. What would be worse would be them killing them and thinking of it as a win.
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gww
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos]
#28508392 - 10/17/23 04:54 PM (3 months, 9 days ago) |
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The guys with the right window won't tell us unless they like what they see. In time it will probably be known.
Russia got real good pictures of a plane going down.
Edited by gww (10/17/23 04:55 PM)
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gww
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#28509174 - 10/18/23 08:36 AM (3 months, 8 days ago) |
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So you are not buying that there was no crater like Israeli bombs make everywhere where they are dropped?
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gww
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#28509181 - 10/18/23 08:48 AM (3 months, 8 days ago) |
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Might be what you say, I was just watching a retired general going over the parking lot photos and making that point.
I am not judgmental at this point but do wonder what your thoughts would be on the subject if it were proved to you that it was actually not Israel on this one thing. I have not made my mind up on who did it yet but do know that hamas doing what they did, wanted a response or would not have did it.
Sorry ballsalsa for the edit after you posted: However, PS they they leveled whole buildings and not just half leveled, but this one is the one with hats being hung on.
Edited by gww (10/18/23 09:04 AM)
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gww
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa]
#28509192 - 10/18/23 08:57 AM (3 months, 8 days ago) |
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Fair enough. Probably.
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gww
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#28509324 - 10/18/23 11:10 AM (3 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seriously though, the IDF has access to Hamas militant communications but somehow didn’t thwart the massive attack they planned and executed two weeks ago? Anyone wondering how the public was led into supporting the Iraq War, here ya go.
I am not sure but think MTG as well as many other conspiracy promoters take this very same position on the 9-11 attack. Now at the time I was sure they used it to go for unrelated Iraq, but I do not believe they wanted it to happen so they could.
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gww
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It was a failure, but could have been just as easily a failure to believe it could happen as expecting me to believe they wanted it to happen.
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gww
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: sudly]
#28509537 - 10/18/23 01:48 PM (3 months, 8 days ago) |
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The only thing difference the hospital makes is like I said, it is what hats are being hung on. Secondly, in this one incident, the accident by who is the question. Hamas killed the innocent citizens at a concert and in their homes knowing the accidents would be the result.
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gww
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Kryptos] 1
#28509862 - 10/18/23 07:01 PM (3 months, 8 days ago) |
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You may never know then.
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gww
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Re: The Official Israel/Hamas War Thread. [Re: Enlil]
#28509916 - 10/18/23 08:03 PM (3 months, 8 days ago) |
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Maybe? Then again, it might reduce a rally point that fires up people who's propensity is to forget hamas part and want to jump in on their side. It is even doing that a bit in this little place.
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