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Moses_Davidson
Non-Prophet



Registered: 05/21/20
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Talking to entities and hearing from the universe
#28484546 - 09/27/23 09:29 AM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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A purely scientific discussion can't talk about the very existence of entities or the consciousness of the universe because these things cannot be tested in repeatable experiments.
So, even though I think DMT entities are just hallucinated visualizations of non-verbal thoughts and augmented stimuli, I can't use the scientific method to say that they don't exist.
However, that being said, can repeatable scientific tests be arranged to qualify whether or not someone is actually talking to entities while tripping?
-------------------- "In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill "The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose." J.B.S. Haldane "Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." Mark Twain
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Talking to entities and hearing from the universe [Re: Moses_Davidson]
#28484600 - 09/27/23 10:38 AM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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the right questions probably do not include the terms entities or consciousness, but examine the state in which the encounters are claimed to occur, and the kinds of mental contents and personality profiles that are common to those who encounter this phenomenon.
By exploring the phenomenon directly in this way new insight about it will dawn, and some meaningful descriptions of the states of mind and the contents of experience can be formulated.
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


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Re: Talking to entities and hearing from the universe [Re: Moses_Davidson]
#28490031 - 10/02/23 02:20 PM (3 months, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
Moses_Davidson said: A purely scientific discussion can't talk about the very existence of entities or the consciousness of the universe because these things cannot be tested in repeatable experiments.
So, even though I think DMT entities are just hallucinated visualizations of non-verbal thoughts and augmented stimuli, I can't use the scientific method to say that they don't exist.
However, that being said, can repeatable scientific tests be arranged to qualify whether or not someone is actually talking to entities while tripping?
Evolutionary thinking is about noticing the ingenuity and novelty that emerges out of the repetition. If it's a repeatable scientific test, then there would be some novelty producing ingenious phenomena. Evolutionary thinking questions the nature of the questioner. Who is asking the question?
Dangerous memes | Dan Dennett
Leonardo da Vinci once wrote, “… if you look at any walls spotted with various stains or with a mixture of different kinds of stones, if you are about to invent some scene you will be able to see in it a resemblance to various different landscapes adorned with mountains, rivers, rocks, trees, plains, wide valleys, and various groups of hills.” So the next time you see the man or even a toad in the moon, you can think of your kinship with Da Vinci.
pareidolia noun par·ei·do·lia ˌper-ˌī-ˈdō-lē-ə -ˈdōl-yə : the tendency to perceive a specific, often meaningful image in a random or ambiguous visual pattern The scientific explanation for some people is pareidolia, or the human ability to see shapes or make pictures out of randomness. Think of the Rorschach inkblot test. —Pamela Ferdinand
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Talking to entities and hearing from the universe [Re: Moses_Davidson]
#28490032 - 10/02/23 02:21 PM (3 months, 25 days ago) |
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Dan Dennett: Cute, sexy, sweet, funny
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Talking to entities and hearing from the universe [Re: Moses_Davidson]
#28490038 - 10/02/23 02:34 PM (3 months, 25 days ago) |
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Dangerous Ideas | Daniel Dennett
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Tropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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Re: Talking to entities and hearing from the universe [Re: Moses_Davidson]
#28490057 - 10/02/23 02:59 PM (3 months, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Moses_Davidson said: A purely scientific discussion can't talk about the very existence of entities or the consciousness of the universe because these things cannot be tested in repeatable experiments.
So, even though I think DMT entities are just hallucinated visualizations of non-verbal thoughts and augmented stimuli, I can't use the scientific method to say that they don't exist.
However, that being said, can repeatable scientific tests be arranged to qualify whether or not someone is actually talking to entities while tripping?
Currently? No. Not unless you have the entities number to call them after and confirm.
I definitely find this an intriguing conversation though. I am not as skeptical as the old ones from around here but I definitely have my guard up, especially when it comes to my internal stimuli and experience. The brain is running the show I am experiencing as my life, and it's a tricky bugger. More than enough phenomena of human's tricking themselves or being tricked by their sense.
So despite that "hallucinated visualizations of non-verbal thoughts and augmented stimuli" or sensations of non-verbal communication have been something I've experienced more frequently lately. So while I'm not going to make much from so little evidence, and it could easily be I have pushed myself psychedelically or have underlying causes for these experiences, I also can't rule out that things attempt to communicate with us in ways we can't comprehend.
But I round it off with, brains are silly tricksters. They will bite their nose to spite their face, and go down swinging with all sorts of complexes if we let our selves or isolate ourselves from social interaction too long. Plus this thing fires off fucking wild dreams every night it could easily come up with that shit.
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle


Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
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Re: Talking to entities and hearing from the universe [Re: Tropism]
#28490129 - 10/02/23 04:53 PM (3 months, 24 days ago) |
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“There is no such thing as philosophy-free science; there is only science whose philosophical baggage is taken on board without examination. —Daniel Dennett, Darwin's Dangerous Idea, 1995” ― Daniel C. Dennett, Darwin's Dangerous Idea: Evolution and the Meanings of Life
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Talking to entities and hearing from the universe [Re: Cory Duchesne] 1
#28490173 - 10/02/23 05:52 PM (3 months, 24 days ago) |
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As I understand it,
Daniel Dennett claims we are very dangerous and that is a reason not to create artificial consciousness in our image since it too will be dangerous.
He sees a value to understanding mind and consciousness, and he sees that the effort to create artificial consciousness can help us understand consciousness, but this is tantamount to saying that A) We do not understand consciousness and may need to create artificial consciousness in order to understand it. AND B) We must fear what we do not understand eg. fear conscious man, and fear artificial consciousness as well, since both man and consciousness are still in the not well understood category, and therefore they are things that are worthy of fearing.
Reality around us and within us is mostly not perceived even when we are very attentive, so if not perceived, it cannot be claimed to be 100% understood, but this is no reason for more fear, but actually it is an instruction in favor of better attentiveness, we need to fear less to be more attentive, and proceed compassionately in a middle way towards more understanding.
I say that One must begin to see that man and consciousness have an understandable pattern (which is associative memory and perceptive reflexes), and we are not to be feared as dangerous, but to be understood at every phase and granularity of the manifestations of mind in terms of memory formation and perception (aka experiencing).
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




Registered: 08/01/23
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Loc: PNW
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Re: Talking to entities and hearing from the universe [Re: Moses_Davidson] 1
#28491604 - 10/04/23 12:49 AM (3 months, 23 days ago) |
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There’s this YouTube channel I watch. Where this guy said, he kept seeing the same woman in his trips. So when he offered to let his friend do some DMT for the first time. He kind of wanted to guide him through the process. And then his friend said “oh they really love you here.” “Yeah, it’s really loving and open place.” “No, they literally love you Shane. And there’s this purple woman here and she wanted me to say hi.” He had never told that person anything about her.
Edited by GenesisCorrupted (10/04/23 12:58 AM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Talking to entities and hearing from the universe [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
#28491688 - 10/04/23 04:52 AM (3 months, 23 days ago) |
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In the best of cases, when a story is told, at least 60% of the detail of the experience is left out in the cases that the speaker is erudite just because words take so long to think and speak, and the experienced changes are happening 10 times per second. For most people the kind of detail left out is more like 90%, and the words are approximate at best.
The "purple skin" aspect may have been left out of the conversation prior to the profound statement. However, a majority of purple tinted visuals and entities are common in psychedelic imagery.
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




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Re: Talking to entities and hearing from the universe [Re: redgreenvines]
#28495033 - 10/07/23 12:07 AM (3 months, 20 days ago) |
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But she knew his name. He never told him anything about any of his experiences. He wanted him to go in there with a completely blank slate, so he wouldn’t have anything painting his experience.
Edited by GenesisCorrupted (10/07/23 12:07 AM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Talking to entities and hearing from the universe [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
#28495146 - 10/07/23 05:47 AM (3 months, 20 days ago) |
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If he knew his name, and she was a construct within him, then the name was not a secret key proving autonomous existence.
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