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InvisibleHFM
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Registered: 06/25/21
Posts: 347
Horizontal gene transfer of psilocybin through bacteria.
    #28130112 - 01/08/23 02:57 AM (1 year, 19 days ago)

Could biofilm force clamp connections between species?
Could you add psilocybin to a bacterias plasmid and pass it from one species to the next?
Could biofilm fuse spores or force dikaryotic mating?
What bacterias are beneficial or symbiotic to psilocybe,or any active species in their natural environment?
If you can genetically modify bacteria to produce insulin,why not psilocybin?
Just something I wanted to share,cheers


--------------------
Trees lay chipped across the paths,
we hunt their souls to eat the wrath-HFM


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Registered: 05/30/21
Posts: 2,875
Re: Horizontal gene transfer of psilocybin through bacteria. [Re: HFM]
    #28130130 - 01/08/23 03:40 AM (1 year, 19 days ago)

You can genetically modify bacteria to make psilocybin and it has in fact been done.
But the process used is to insert the genes necessary, not horizontal gene transfer or clamp connections.

Now, THEORETICALLY horizontal gene transfer could confer on bacteria the ability to make a new alkaloid, but I imagine that kind of change would take thousands of years and would not be replicable in a lab. It's an interesting thought.

I am about to make a post soon actually about an experiment of mine, that involves co-culturing between symbiotic ascomycetes in the Tuber genera and psilocybin mushrooms. I have grown a culture where I added truffle LC (Tuber Melanosporum) to a plate mostly colonized with cubensis, with interesting results. I don't think bacteria could be trained to make psilocybin, but it is possible the two could be grown in co-culture (in the same 'mycorrhizae') and that may be effectual at producing alkaloids under select conditions.

I do not think you can fuse species, but you can certainly grow two species closely together and create a sort of cooperation.


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InvisibleHFM
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Re: Horizontal gene transfer of psilocybin through bacteria. [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #28130135 - 01/08/23 04:03 AM (1 year, 19 days ago)

So more of what I was thinking was could you cover two species with a biofilm,and get the other species to produce the same akaloids or similar ones?
I hadn't seen that about E.coli but was thinking of them to produce it in a lab,so that's rad!

edit-Did you get a truffle to pin? I'm really interested in what you found out,can't wait to check it out,cheers


--------------------
Trees lay chipped across the paths,
we hunt their souls to eat the wrath-HFM


Edited by HFM (01/09/23 04:02 AM)


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Re: Horizontal gene transfer of psilocybin through bacteria. [Re: HFM]
    #28130141 - 01/08/23 04:33 AM (1 year, 19 days ago)

I think the species would continue to produce whatever they do typically. Only alkaloid-producing species would do so in a biofilm.

The most you could do would be to have them grow together in a mass or shared mycelial network, and the network acting as one could produce the alkaloids.


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InvisibleHFM
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Re: Horizontal gene transfer of psilocybin through bacteria. [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #28131688 - 01/09/23 04:00 AM (1 year, 18 days ago)

So looking at it more I thought why couldn't you encode bacteria and use them to microdose,would you be able to get a colony established that consistently pumped out a microdose directly into your gut.The new prozak.Then I looked at this Harvard paper on just that maybe I should have just looked it up on my own before posting,in my head I'm like "I'm so smart",probably read all this stuff high then forgot and am now just regurgitating it,cheers


--------------------
Trees lay chipped across the paths,
we hunt their souls to eat the wrath-HFM


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Offlineohkw
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Re: Horizontal gene transfer of psilocybin through bacteria. [Re: HFM]
    #28131764 - 01/09/23 06:24 AM (1 year, 18 days ago)

Taken aside that colonizing your gut with genetically altered bacteria is not exactly legal, consider the large surface area that your small and big intestine have. You would never know beforehand how big the population of genetically altered bacteria is going to be (beside a continuous variability). Thus, the amound of psilocin that is secreted into the gut may vary over multiple decimal powers.... Does not sound ideal, or does it?


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Invisiblecooleko
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Re: Horizontal gene transfer of psilocybin through bacteria. [Re: ohkw]
    #28131984 - 01/09/23 10:16 AM (1 year, 18 days ago)

What law is on the books about colonizing your gut with novel bacteria?


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Offlineohkw
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Re: Horizontal gene transfer of psilocybin through bacteria. [Re: cooleko]
    #28132157 - 01/09/23 12:38 PM (1 year, 18 days ago)

That depends on where you are, but here in Europe you can not simply release transgenic organisms into the environment. And that is what's happening in our hypothetic case when you take a dump.

If you'd use standard lab-strain E.coli for this, they wouldn't persist in the gut as they can not really compete with the microbiome. So it would require to transform a wildtype isolate, which could be pathogenic.
Would be funny to read on the news that there is a new pandemic with a halucinogenic diarrhea ^^


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Invisiblecooleko
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Re: Horizontal gene transfer of psilocybin through bacteria. [Re: ohkw]
    #28132291 - 01/09/23 02:05 PM (1 year, 18 days ago)

Ohh, thanks for enlightening me to to nuance I didn't consider.


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Invisibledjbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
Re: Horizontal gene transfer of psilocybin through bacteria. [Re: HFM]
    #28491417 - 10/03/23 07:47 PM (3 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

HFM said:
Could biofilm force clamp connections between species?
Could you add psilocybin to a bacterias plasmid and pass it from one species to the next?
Could biofilm fuse spores or force dikaryotic mating?
What bacterias are beneficial or symbiotic to psilocybe,or any active species in their natural environment?
If you can genetically modify bacteria to produce insulin,why not psilocybin?
Just something I wanted to share,cheers




I call it the “Ghost in a Jar” method. Aka Psilokombucha

You basically create a SCOBY using yeast, bacillus Subtillus and mycelium. A little sterilized saw dust can be added to the organism.

Then you feed that to a cow and wait for it to poop, pick the mushrooms, then start the process all over again by isolating the various species you put in to the mix from the dung.

Each time you create the new SCOBY you will be closer to transferring genes to the desired organisms. This is basically how mushrooms originally got their enzymes in the first place.(No source for this as it is part of a current research project. However there is evidence this is how it happened in India. Cows, an ancient psychedelic cult and the production of ancient psychedelic drink. The by product were fed to cows and that’s how psychedelic mushrooms came to be. 4 stomachs, enzymes, yadda yadda yadda More on this later.)

Or you could simply use the SCOBY to make a psychedelic kombucha. In time you could see a genetic transmutation. However I was thinking adding a virus would be more fitting and this whole process would be better carried out in a plant. Using plants with similar chemicals and adding the mycelium, bacteria, and a plant with a virus that cause DNA damage.

For example capsaicin, vanilla and Mucuna pruriens are one hydroxyl group away from something like mescaline. Maybe u could infect your Scoby with a virus too not sure.

Transferring the genes to a plant that just needs one more enzyme seems like the way to go. Then spread that plant everywhere. Mimosa and yopo trees are actually invasive. If either of those gain and extra PsiH enzyme gene they would be giant psychedelic mushrooms basically. Just make tea and leaf. 🍁


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