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Kinoko314
Stranger Danger



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Re: Uncle Ben's Tek-If you ==-+ haven't tried it yet, stop what you're doing [Re: blackout]
#28477043 - 09/20/23 08:02 PM (4 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
blackout said: many are hopeless at cooking rice/grains or anything, are people really this ignorant/stupid not to realise this?! the mind boggles...
"Are people so stupid they don't realize people are too stupid to cook rice?"

I tried UB with 4 bags early on while waiting for pf-tek to colonize, and it was nothing but contamination.
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BeefSupremeJr
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Re: Uncle Ben's Tek-If you ==-+ haven't tried it yet, stop what you're doing [Re: PsillySeeEms] 2
#28477062 - 09/20/23 08:12 PM (4 months, 5 days ago) |
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using rice for a grain to noc up seems fine i guess but uncle bens isnt even really cheap. i see it at walmart for like $2.50 for a half pound bag. for 50 lbs of it, youd be looking at $125 plus tax. i can get 50lbs of wheat for 12$. so even then it doesnt make sense. Ive seen 50lb bags of rice bulk for around 40$ which is hell of a lot cheaper than UB if you insist on rice. Youre paying for the packaging I guess which seems convenient yet wasteful. I dont know. anyway i try to be understanding, it just seems like a wasteful way to have a very risky grow. Im trying to understand what draws so many people to it. is it just that you dont need a pc?
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NotFromGeorgia
it's 'Mr. Stranger' to you



Registered: 07/18/23
Posts: 327
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Re: Uncle Ben's Tek-If you ==-+ haven't tried it yet, stop what you're doing [Re: PsillySeeEms] 2
#28477082 - 09/20/23 08:21 PM (4 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
PsillySeeEms said: You would have to do a couple hours work to prepare that same 4 qts of whatever else, and baby sit a big enough pressure cooker that cost more money,plus buy all the jars or even plastic autoclaveable "mushroom bags" that cost almost half as much as a bag of pre sterilized rice as is..
Or, just conveniently grab a case for 10 bucks. Time is money right?
Instant pots are common. Mine fits 3qt jars. Each batch takes about 10 mins of active work using yoshi's low-prep tek. No need to babysit.
Jars can be found relatively easily from good-will, flea markets, older relatives, etc
Agar and sauce cups can be found locally for cheap, or as you suggested premade petris aren't too costly
Coir and SAB costs are shared equally between the teks, so no gain or loss there
ime all of that ended up being cheaper, and faster, than failing with UB
time is indeed money. wasted time is wasted money
-------------------- The most important step a man can take. It's not the first one, is it? It's the next one. Always the next step, Dalinar.
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B Traven
Stranger



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Re: Uncle Ben's Tek-If you ==-+ haven't tried it yet, stop what you're doing [Re: BeefSupremeJr] 1
#28477083 - 09/20/23 08:22 PM (4 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
BeefSupremeJr said: Im trying to understand what draws so many people to it. is it just that you dont need a pc?
Yup, that's it. I think most people are inoculating in open-air, too. So really, you don't need any equipment at all. And there are only 2 steps. That's incredibly attractive, and can make just about any alternative look daunting.
Sometimes it's just what people are exposed to, as well.
The first information I found on growing mushrooms was in the MMGG (Oss and Oeric).That laid out scraping spores on agar, inoculating grain jars, and then top-fruiting them. I got as far as growing some lovely penicillin in my petri dishes.
The next time I encountered anything new was when I ordered syringes and instructions from PF. It blew my mind that I didn't have to mess around with agar, and could just use a spore syringe. I followed his instructions to a T (and some were pretty wonky, by today's standards).
In both those cases, I would have followed pretty much any instructions I was given. If either manual had said "go buy microwaveable rice," I would have done it.
But we all know what's truly daunting: the prospect of staring down a sea of bacterial spawn, and trying to decide whether it's already too far gone or not. Or having months of anticipation dissolve into nothing more than a sea of green.
-------------------- Beware of advice- even this.
Edited by B Traven (09/20/23 08:23 PM)
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PsillySeeEms
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Re: Uncle Ben's Tek-If you ==-+ haven't tried it yet, stop what you're doing [Re: BeefSupremeJr]
#28477086 - 09/20/23 08:23 PM (4 months, 5 days ago) |
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The refried bean packs though, now were talking! 90 seconds in the nuker, and then you can squeeze perfect stripes of hot mooshy beans across your taco or burritos. Then, simply (not for me though, I kinda hate waste!) toss the empty used package in the trash, instead of scrubbing a pan. Trying to spoon it out over your nachos? With the pouch, its squirt squirt squirt!... perfect bite size servings over every chip with ease! It's too good to be true, so ya don't do it! Please buy tin cans that are hard to remove the contents (unless you know the trick of pocking a hole on the other side first), then scrub those out along with the pan and the drops on the floor and stove.. and recycle them, thanks!
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B Traven
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Re: Uncle Ben's Tek-If you ==-+ haven't tried it yet, stop what you're doing [Re: PsillySeeEms] 3
#28477092 - 09/20/23 08:26 PM (4 months, 5 days ago) |
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I used to go hard with the dehydrated refried beans. Boiling water, mix, immediately add a giant chunk of cheddar. I'd just eat it like that.
That's also how they prepare them at Taco Bell (minus the cheese part).
-------------------- Beware of advice- even this.
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PsillySeeEms
Stranger


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Re: Uncle Ben's Tek-If you ==-+ haven't tried it yet, stop what you're doing [Re: NotFromGeorgia]
#28477123 - 09/20/23 08:38 PM (4 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
NotFromGeorgia said:
Instant pots are common. Mine fits 3qt jars. Each batch takes about 10 mins of active work using yoshi's low-prep tek. No need to babysit.
Jars can be found relatively easily from good-will, flea markets, older relatives, etc
Agar and sauce cups can be found locally for cheap, or as you suggested premade petris aren't too costly
Coir and SAB costs are shared equally between the teks, so no gain or loss there
ime all of that ended up being cheaper, and faster, than failing with UB
time is indeed money. wasted time is wasted money
Yep, IP are awesome. I find them at goodwill, just like the last brand new cases of jars (small mouth, but 5 fit perfect in a 6qt IP, so thats like 5 rice pouches) for like 5 bucks a flat. 6qt IPs are $25-40 for practically new ones used all day long by the dozens, and so I keep looking to buy them all up.
I'm not even gonna waste time, because I'm gonna have like 5 IPs running on timers all day (with proper circuits), and try dropping agar pucks right down through the steam vents after its all cool off, using the cheap 25-50lb bags of rice I been seeing and finding the perfect amount of water to add.. I hide IPs behind greasy junk so I can come back on 50% off day, but some asshole keeps putting them back out on display, lol. 25 a piece! For automated PCs that I think I can just use the pot as the main jar as is, before cracking the lids and spawning to bulk. Easy to lowball FB marketplace sellers too, for ones that have only cooked a roast or 2, haha.
Is it possible to just cook the batch of rice, and noc up the whole pot, especially if you have a fleet of 6-8qt IPs? Might turn into my new plan!
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Hysteria
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Re: Uncle Ben's Tek-If you ==-+ haven't tried it yet, stop what you're doing [Re: PsillySeeEms] 4
#28477138 - 09/20/23 08:45 PM (4 months, 5 days ago) |
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Just talked a friend out of trying UB for his first ever grow. Gonna give him some T3s and prints and he will start with agar instead. If you can save just one person.....
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NotFromGeorgia
it's 'Mr. Stranger' to you



Registered: 07/18/23
Posts: 327
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Re: Uncle Ben's Tek-If you ==-+ haven't tried it yet, stop what you're doing [Re: PsillySeeEms]
#28477151 - 09/20/23 08:51 PM (4 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
PsillySeeEms said: Is it possible to just cook the batch of rice, and noc up the whole pot, especially if you have a fleet of 6-8qt IPs? Might turn into my new plan!
The rice won't get completely sterilized. The bottom will burn, and the top won't stay heated enough to kill everything. IP heating cycles aren't like a normal PC. Putting wet grain in jars helps even it all out.
And besides, no idea how you'd inoc without contaminating. The vents aren't straight through the lid.
Good luck!
-------------------- The most important step a man can take. It's not the first one, is it? It's the next one. Always the next step, Dalinar.
Edited by NotFromGeorgia (09/20/23 08:52 PM)
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Tiamo
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Re: Uncle Ben's Tek-If you ==-+ haven't tried it yet, stop what you're doing [Re: NotFromGeorgia]
#28477314 - 09/21/23 03:34 AM (4 months, 5 days ago) |
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This is one of the best discussions of UB Tek I've seen. One good point gets raised, in my opinion, and one that is often overlooked on this forum. Not everyone wants to grow mushrooms as a hobby. Some want to grow mushrooms as a means to an end. Not everyone needs huge harvests. For some, an ounce or two will last them years. And finally, not everyone has an amount of disposable income to buy supplies to get a good harvest. There is something to be said about UB that appeals to this group. At first sight it looks like it could accomplish this goal. If you analyse it further you will realise that PF Tek is much superior for this and even cheaper considering the failure rate of UB, but most won't.
One of the things that held me back when first starting to grow was exactly this: I did not want to buy a lot of cultivation specific things considering I did not see growing mushrooms as a long term thing and did not want to deal with the hassle of disposing things afterwards that would go unused. On top of that, the budget was limited.
In a way I still don't really enjoy this hobby. I dread sterile work. I hate fussing about in a SAB. I don't have a lot of space to store cultivation supplies and they take over my bedroom. I grow to supply my friends and I with mushrooms. And I don't need to grow a lot to do that.
--------------------
If you have used a Miraculix Psilocybin QTest, could you please share your results? Shipping free Ps. natalensis spore prints to any address in The Netherlands, just
Mush love
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Hysteria
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Re: Uncle Ben's Tek-If you ==-+ haven't tried it yet, stop what you're doing [Re: Tiamo] 1
#28477329 - 09/21/23 04:29 AM (4 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tiamo said: ..... I did not see growing mushrooms as a long term thing.....
Boy were you wrong!
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Kinoko314
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Re: Uncle Ben's Tek-If you ==-+ haven't tried it yet, stop what you're doing [Re: PsillySeeEms]
#28477417 - 09/21/23 07:58 AM (4 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
PsillySeeEms said: The refried bean packs though, now were talking! 90 seconds in the nuker, and then you can squeeze perfect stripes of hot mooshy beans across your taco or burritos. Then, simply (not for me though, I kinda hate waste!) toss the empty used package in the trash, instead of scrubbing a pan. Trying to spoon it out over your nachos? With the pouch, its squirt squirt squirt!... perfect bite size servings over every chip with ease! It's too good to be true, so ya don't do it! Please buy tin cans that are hard to remove the contents (unless you know the trick of pocking a hole on the other side first), then scrub those out along with the pan and the drops on the floor and stove.. and recycle them, thanks! 
I've always hated beans. I must say, "squirt squirt squirt" doesn't give it any more appeal. Just gross.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Uncle Ben's Tek-If you ==-+ haven't tried it yet, stop what you're doing [Re: Stipe-n Cap] 4
#28477423 - 09/21/23 08:12 AM (4 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said:
PF tek doesn't require a pressure cooker; PF tek is inexpensive; PF tek is noob friendly; PF tek is designed for use with spore syringes; PF tek is designed to be run cheaply in volume, and is the only acceptable, reasonable introduction tek for new growers exploring the cultivation of many active species without the requirement for obtaining expensive equipment.
PF is a mush cult legend, who the fuck even started this nonsense? WillyMyco? 
I remember this emerging on the boards many moons ago as a novelty grow, and that's exactly what this is: Novelty.
Pssh!
PF tek is the only appropriate entry level tek. There is no comparison, there's no contention, there's no competition.
Uncle bens, or whatever you want to call those rice packs, fails on every single point of analysis; Failing to see this is either the result of incompetence, or intellectual dishonesty, probably both simultaneously.
The use of spawn is by definition more advanced than fruiting from PF jars, therefore PF is far less complicated, and far more noob friendly. Failure will be higher with UB when compared to PF, making PF the obvious choice for folks who want a hassle free, simplistic, inexpensive introduction to mush cult.
If you're the sort of person who views grinding brown rice into flour as a "hassle", you're a lazy fuck and should stop breathing out of your mouth, it's unhealthy. 
If producing your own BRF with a coffee grinder is too much of a pita, pre-milled brown rice flour is widely available and very inexpensive. Hydrated brown rice flour mixed with vermiculite is the superior comparative media.
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BeefSupremeJr
Detritivore



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Re: Uncle Ben's Tek-If you ==-+ haven't tried it yet, stop what you're doing [Re: Stipe-n Cap] 1
#28477465 - 09/21/23 09:24 AM (4 months, 4 days ago) |
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my nose has been broken so many times it's really hard for me to breathe through. The moment I have a job with benefits I'm going to have it fixed but until then please bear with me.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Uncle Ben's Tek-If you ==-+ haven't tried it yet, stop what you're doing [Re: BeefSupremeJr] 1
#28477477 - 09/21/23 09:33 AM (4 months, 4 days ago) |
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Lol, whoopsie daisy.
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BeefSupremeJr
Detritivore



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Re: Uncle Ben's Tek-If you ==-+ haven't tried it yet, stop what you're doing [Re: Stipe-n Cap] 1
#28477498 - 09/21/23 09:56 AM (4 months, 4 days ago) |
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beefy needs a new nose!
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Hysteria
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Re: Uncle Ben's Tek-If you ==-+ haven't tried it yet, stop what you're doing [Re: NotFromGeorgia] 1
#28478302 - 09/22/23 04:26 AM (4 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: If you're the sort of person who views grinding brown rice into flour as a "hassle", you're a lazy fuck and should stop breathing out of your mouth, it's unhealthy. 
I would also like to highlight the importance of breathing through your nose. Mouth breathing causes all sorts of nasties.
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Hysteria
Bum Looker


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Re: Uncle Ben's Tek-If you ==-+ haven't tried it yet, stop what you're doing [Re: BeefSupremeJr] 1
#28478303 - 09/22/23 04:30 AM (4 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
BeefSupremeJr said: beefy needs a new nose!
What's the point? You're just gonna break it again.
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PsillySeeEms
Stranger


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Re: Uncle Ben's Tek-If you ==-+ haven't tried it yet, stop what you're doing [Re: Hysteria]
#28478348 - 09/22/23 06:12 AM (4 months, 4 days ago) |
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Great value brown rice is $3.98 per 5 lb bag (@ 5 cents per oz). That isn't really a bad deal now is it? $40 per 50 lbs, but you don't even have to buy it all at once either. Just what you need, maybe 10 lbs at a time for $8, and still getting a deal. Plus, you can eat it for dinners too, but walmart brand rice isn't really that good IMO. Perfect for mushrooms grains though.
Why wouldn't you want to use brown rice over any other grains, that might cost 10-15 bucks cheaper for a big sack? How can you beat the quality, knowing that its just nice clean rice grains with nothing else..?
Then get an 8qt instant pot that can fit 4x 1qt jars and your in business. Pop out a $10 case of 90s rice pouches worth every few 2-3 hours. They really are super efficient too, and save big on electricity compared to PCs. You still need to prepare the rice and spend a little time, even though the IP does most of the work. Use it to precook the rice too.. You need to spend a half a day on and off to get 16 qts if you have only one IP though. You could just buy 32 rice packs for $40 on the way home from work and grow a lb if you actually start them off right with a clean culture and use proper work procedures handling the pouches.. It's not like the 90 second mycologist dudes don't promote using agar and even g2g the rice bags in front of flow hoods, etc. Its not like it isn't a viable alternative to growing mushrooms, if you can handle keeping 32 taped up bags sterile somehow.
Then re clean & sterilize the empty plastic pouches, and stuff all 32 of them with half ounces of dried product, after printing a cool label back over it, making them double use plastic
Melt all the plastic rice pouches down and form them into badass new mono tubs, lol.
I dunno.
Maybe that is why it's so appealing?
Edited by PsillySeeEms (09/22/23 06:13 AM)
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
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Re: Uncle Ben's Tek-If you ==-+ haven't tried it yet, stop what you're doing [Re: PsillySeeEms] 5
#28478385 - 09/22/23 07:08 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Rice packs = spawn. Spawn is at least an intermediate level cultivation practice.
Rice packs = high rate of failure. This failure is largely due to the use of septic spore solution being introduced to a moist environment. Spawn is mixed at some point, whether it's directly after inoculation, during spawn run, or at very least just prior to spawning.
Bacteria has limited motility without the presence of sufficient moisture. Using too much spore solution will exacerbate bacterial infections due to increased bacterial motility throughout the medium; however, even when a single drop of MS-solution is used, the agitation of the rice prior to spawning blends the bacteria (or any other contaminant) globally throughout the packet, and then homogeneously throughout the bulk substrate at spawning. Bulk substrate is a water reservoir, contaminants love moist environments.
It's worth mentioning that any disruption of the mycelial colony via breakage will weaken the organisms ability to stave off infections, this is why spawn can stall out post shake. Stalling = contamination which has taken advantage of the weakened host. This also applies to the bulk substrate post spawning. Infected spawn will grow slowly, produce metabolites, Trichoderma, molds, and aggressive bacterial blooms.
It's at this stage when the new grower must decide which tubs to purchase, what hole configuration, what brand of coir to use, how much water is required, do I need to pasteurize? Etc, etc, etc, up to and including never ending threads asking the same questions ad nauseum. This is when I say: have you ever heard of PF tek?
UB produces failure on a biblical scale. Loss should be factored into your pricing analysis, failure means: more spore solution, more packets, time wasted, etc.
PF Tek is not spawn, it's a type of "all in one" fruiting substrate. The entire life cycle is played out in one sterile container. The design prevents cross contamination, provides adequate filtration; The substrate remains intact throughout, limiting the scope of inevitable infections. By maintaining the integrity of your media your colony will have a greater chance of producing fruit even while threatened by aggressive bacteria. This is simply not the case with UB. The granular structure of the BRF/vermiculite combo further restricts bacterial motility.
You don't know what you don't know. This is basic and self evident to anyone with an understanding of cultivation practices, the mushroom life cycle, and a basic understanding of contamination.
PF requires a pot, water, brown rice flour, and vermiculite. The one time purchase of jars is just that, one time. These jars can be truly sterilized, can be reused hundreds of times, they're capable of maintaining sterility, and are nearly fool proof.
New growers lack the requisite experience to identify problems with spawn. Spore solution to spawn will produce contamination, the same contamination will present itself in pf jars. UB packs restrict visibility, which makes identifying contamination difficult unless absolutely obvious, Trichoderma or some other mold would be an obvious indicator to some, while others confuce with bluing.
Contamination identification is an intermediate to advanced level cultivation skill. Even when bacterial, yeast, or mold contaminations are apparent to more advanced growers, the noob will ague as though their personal identity has been violated, then proceed to expand their rekt spawn.
PF is designed to allow maximum visibility when injecting spore solution down the face of your glass jars. This visibility allows the new grower to correlate outcome with growth patterns. They quickly learn which visual identifiers correlate to either outright failure or reduced fruiting performance without sacrificing downstream resources.
No shaking, no spawning, no requirement for ninja eyes. Even a highly infected cake can push a fruit or two.
UB= contamination expansion tek. Period.
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