Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | Next >
OfflineB Traven
Stranger
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/10/20
Posts: 2,478
Loc: Central Megalopolis
Last seen: 5 hours, 36 minutes
Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Huskies] * 1
    #28507921 - 10/17/23 09:59 AM (3 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Huskies said:
Hey guys, I was wondering if there is an established consensus on the benefits of coffee/caffeine/coffee grounds in grain boiling or grain jars, I know that for tubs it is a no go.

On a similar note, I was wondering if we should do a Potency Thread similar to this one, where we establish everything we know that does/does not help potency. Perhaps that info could be contained just here.




Well, the only thing we KNOW affects potency is genetics.

It's pretty much accepted/established that supplementing grains or substrates does nothing. There's a lot more nutrition in the grains we use than the mycelium needs. And trying to add precursors flies in the face of biology.

Things like immature fruits being stronger, colder growing conditions and longer consolidation times increasing potency, etc., are hunches that we simply don't have the ability to prove or disprove. Now that we have better and cheaper testing methods, it's something we could start to nail down. But you'd still need to design an enormous multi-factorial study to get any definitive answers.


--------------------
Beware of advice- even this.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineB Traven
Stranger
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/10/20
Posts: 2,478
Loc: Central Megalopolis
Last seen: 5 hours, 36 minutes
Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: tree frog] * 1
    #28507922 - 10/17/23 10:01 AM (3 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

tree frog said:
Quote:

Huskies said:
Hey guys, I was wondering if there is an established consensus on the benefits of coffee/caffeine/coffee grounds in grain boiling or grain jars, I know that for tubs it is a no go.




I use it for sclerotia.  I don't know if others still do.

I've ran other species on the coffee jars and it doesn't hurt anyway.  Have 16 bags of enoki colonizing now that were done like this.

But yeah, if you're looking for potency, ms -> agar -> grow (multiple tubs) -> clone (multiple fruits) -> agar -> grow -> bioassay.  Keep the winners.

Shoeboxes and other small foot print methods work well for this.

You can also start with potent genetics.  PE, APE, etc.  Exotics (maybe not start here but if you have a few grows under your belt that's another option.)




I've grown out all sorts of cubensis varieties that aren't "known for potency," and never had much trouble getting them up to "PE" levels. PE is also a pain in the ass to grow.

In my opinion, it's best to learn how to manipulate and test the genetics yourself.


--------------------
Beware of advice- even this.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKroxx
Alchemist Seeker of Truth


Registered: 10/07/23
Posts: 32
Last seen: 1 month, 6 days
Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: BeefSupremeJr]
    #28521983 - 10/29/23 07:06 AM (2 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

BeefSupremeJr said:
-regular misting






So are you saying you shouldn't mist at all or you just don't need to mist more than once? I was reading Mateja water tub TEK for BRF cakes, Mateja states:
"FAE will cause evaporation to occur slowly so in about 1-5 days you'll need to gently mist to replace the amount of droplets that have vanished in the course of the days."

Has this been debunked and the post is outdated or is regular misting still needed? Thanks in advance!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
modboy
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,258
Loc: where?
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Kroxx] * 3
    #28521992 - 10/29/23 07:22 AM (2 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

BeefSupremeJr said:
regular misting






Quote:

Kroxx said:
you'll need to gently mist to replace the amount of droplets that have vanished in the course of the days.





regular is noobs misting 3times a day. once every 3 or 5days is hardly regular is it? mist when needed not by some schedule.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
Trusted Cultivator
Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Kroxx] * 2
    #28522007 - 10/29/23 07:46 AM (2 months, 29 days ago)

It also depends on environment, that's why he said "as needed". My tubs rarely go to second flush and I never mist before second flush. If the tubs are hydrated appropriately and spawned with sufficient depth, the substrate won't have issues maintaining conditions.

My sub surface looks like this throughout:



The beads never evaporate, so I never mist. Even my thick shoeboxes maintain beads without requiring misting. I'd lean more toward evaporation not being a pinning trigger, my tubs almost never experience evaporation, and pin just fine.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKroxx
Alchemist Seeker of Truth


Registered: 10/07/23
Posts: 32
Last seen: 1 month, 6 days
Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28522050 - 10/29/23 08:25 AM (2 months, 29 days ago)

Gotcha that's what I figured, I've read to post on surface conditions too but I just wanted to make sure. I'm too new to have a good idea of what regular really means :lol: . So if I where to rephrase it I would say: mist based on surface conditions not time.


I would also like to add to stipes quote:
Quote:

Stipe-n Cap said:
The idea that higher nutrient content (ammendments/nootz) in substrate boosts performance/increases yield;





Stipes made a wonderful post on nutrition and additives of substrate, I had to do a few searches to find the information so hopefully this will help others!

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=28106983&page=0&vc=1


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineB Traven
Stranger
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/10/20
Posts: 2,478
Loc: Central Megalopolis
Last seen: 5 hours, 36 minutes
Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Kroxx]
    #28522112 - 10/29/23 09:28 AM (2 months, 28 days ago)

Yeah, basically the outdated concepts around the need to actively provide FAE and also mist on a consistent schedule create a situation where, at best, you're on a treadmill doing extra work for no reason. And then the worst case scenario is that all your fanning dries and therefore damages the surface, and then the aggressive misting creates perfect conditions for bacteria to fester in that damaged material.

It's akin to force-feeding yourself on a set schedule, rather than eating when you're actually hungry.


--------------------
Beware of advice- even this.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKinoko314
Stranger Danger
Male


Registered: 12/16/22
Posts: 1,521
Loc: Colorado Flag
Last seen: 13 days, 15 hours
Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28522206 - 10/29/23 10:41 AM (2 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Stipe-n Cap said:
I'd lean more toward evaporation not being a pinning trigger, my tubs almost never experience evaporation, and pin just fine.




I'm not sure it's fair to say there isn't evaporation happening.  I think it's evaporating at a rate that the mycelium is able to replace.

Whether or not evaporation is truly a pinning trigger, I don't have the experience to argue from first-hand knowledge.  I thought it was widely and fully accepted as truth though.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
Trusted Cultivator
Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Kinoko314] * 4
    #28522208 - 10/29/23 10:44 AM (2 months, 28 days ago)

Everything in this thread was at one point widely accepted.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBeefSupremeJr
Detritivore
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/02/11
Posts: 6,812
Loc: 29.9792° N, 31.1342° E
Last seen: 20 minutes, 33 seconds
Trusted Cultivator
Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 1
    #28522266 - 10/29/23 11:45 AM (2 months, 28 days ago)

i never accepted hyrdrogen peroxide.

but ya, nothing to add on misting. thanks for being on top of this thread stipe.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBaba Yaga
♥ coir grower

Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 3,955
Loc: Hyperspace Chicken Coop
Trusted Cultivator
Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 2
    #28522313 - 10/29/23 12:45 PM (2 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Stipe-n Cap said:
I'd lean more toward evaporation not being a pinning trigger, my tubs almost never experience evaporation, and pin just fine.





Totally agree with this. Coming from the pan corner there is a very similar believe that repeated saturation and evaporation cycles are essential for pinning but I ran different varieties fruited at spawn numerous times without misting at all and they would pin just fine as well even if the surface dried out a little.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejungatheart
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 06/11/22
Posts: 135
Last seen: 21 hours, 20 minutes
Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Baba Yaga]
    #28522320 - 10/29/23 12:51 PM (2 months, 28 days ago)

in


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
Trusted Cultivator
Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Baba Yaga]
    #28522323 - 10/29/23 12:52 PM (2 months, 28 days ago)

@beef

Yeah, I guess Peroxide wasn't. I'm not sure how that one ever made sense to anybody. This is a great thread idea, gives us an opportunity to talk/reason about the things we do, and why.


@Baba

It seems reasonable, I doubt there's much surface evaporation taking place in the wild. It's not like the ground is a bare fruiting surface, it's always covered with some sort of leaf litter, grasses, or some thing similar which would lock moisture/humidity at the surface level beneath all the debris.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineVast218
Learning
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/22
Posts: 123
Last seen: 1 month, 1 day
Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 1
    #28522331 - 10/29/23 01:00 PM (2 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Stipe-n Cap said:
It also depends on environment, that's why he said "as needed". My tubs rarely go to second flush and I never mist before second flush. If the tubs are hydrated appropriately and spawned with sufficient depth, the substrate won't have issues maintaining conditions.

My sub surface looks like this throughout:



The beads never evaporate, so I never mist. Even my thick shoeboxes maintain beads without requiring misting. I'd lean more toward evaporation not being a pinning trigger, my tubs almost never experience evaporation, and pin just fine.




One thing that confused me as a noob was that I thought the droplets were a direct consequence of misting, they are not! No amount of misting will produce these droplets on coir (I have tried lol).

The droplets are formed when the mycelium “squeezes” water out of the wet substrate as it grows. So all that matters is starting with the right level hydration and let mycelium growth do the rest, no misting needed.

Sorry I know this is obvious to most of you here, but some newbies might be confused like I was.


Edited by Vast218 (10/29/23 01:01 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleYuggoth
Mi-Go Cultivator
 User Gallery


Registered: 03/04/23
Posts: 493
Loc: Lost Carcosa
Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Vast218]
    #28522335 - 10/29/23 01:05 PM (2 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Vast218 said:
One thing that confused me as a noob was that I thought the droplets were a direct consequence of misting, they are not!




I had the same misconception! It's one of the many such things I added to the FAQ in my sig.

This is a fun thread.


--------------------
We have not succeeded in answering all our problems. The answers we have found only serve to raise a whole set of new questions. In some ways we feel we are as confused as ever, but we believe we are confused on a higher level and about more important things. -- Earl C. Kelley

Things I really wish I knew when I started // Vacuum sealer discussion thread // Shroomery gif zoo


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
Trusted Cultivator
Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Vast218]
    #28522336 - 10/29/23 01:05 PM (2 months, 28 days ago)

It's important to note that the droplets often won't form until full colonization. The tiny mycelial filaments which stick up from the substrate surface hold moisture like dew on a spiders web.

New folks often under hydrate their substrate, which leads to poor surface conditions, or they use shoeboxes which have very little separation between sub surface and the large 360° gap which pumps fresh air directly onto the sub, drying it out.

Proper starting water and proper substrate depth = 👌  surface conditions.

Tubs should self regulate their environment. If you're not seeing beads, you probably did it wrong.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKinoko314
Stranger Danger
Male


Registered: 12/16/22
Posts: 1,521
Loc: Colorado Flag
Last seen: 13 days, 15 hours
Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28522343 - 10/29/23 01:10 PM (2 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Stipe-n Cap said:
@Baba

It seems reasonable, I doubt there's much surface evaporation taking place in the wild. It's not like the ground is a bare fruiting surface, it's always covered with some sort of leaf litter, grasses, or some thing similar which would lock moisture/humidity at the surface level beneath all the debris.




I mean, a pile of leaves isn't exactly an airtight tub.  It keeps the ground under it from totally drying out, but it can't "lock in" water vapor.  I'm just suggesting there could still be a difference between slight/minimal evaporation and no evaporation.  Saying you have no evaporation is like saying your tub would never ever dry out, aside from water transferred to growing mushrooms.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
Trusted Cultivator
Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Kinoko314]
    #28522364 - 10/29/23 01:23 PM (2 months, 28 days ago)

I wasn't using "lock" in a literal sense, perhaps I should have said: "helps hold mositure close to the ground by insulating the surface from the surrounding environment while holding moisture".


I highly doubt my tubs experience any surface evaporation (within the given timeframe of the fruiting cycle), but even if they did, it would be imperceptible/unmeasurable. We cant make any claims about something that cannot be verified by observation or measurement.

It's not at all like saying the tubs will "never" dry out, they clearly would, eventually, however it would take a long time. I'm referring to the short time-frame for colonization and fruiting.

I can however observe the constant presence of moisture beads, they persist even while harvesting. The presence of such copious surface mosisture within an environment exceeding 70% humidity, leads me to believe that evaporation will (within the specified time-frame) be so slow/miniscule as to render it irrelevant.

The holes simply allow for fresh air to move. Some will experience evaporation, some won't, but those who don't, still experience heavy pinsetting. I doubt it plays a significant role, probs as outdated as fanning.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleYuggoth
Mi-Go Cultivator
 User Gallery


Registered: 03/04/23
Posts: 493
Loc: Lost Carcosa
Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28522443 - 10/29/23 02:27 PM (2 months, 28 days ago)

Hmm, we actually could measure evaporation by monitoring tub weight.

(FWIW I am also skeptical of evaporation as a trigger.)


--------------------
We have not succeeded in answering all our problems. The answers we have found only serve to raise a whole set of new questions. In some ways we feel we are as confused as ever, but we believe we are confused on a higher level and about more important things. -- Earl C. Kelley

Things I really wish I knew when I started // Vacuum sealer discussion thread // Shroomery gif zoo


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFezzgig
Shpongled
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/24/23
Posts: 37
Last seen: 16 days, 1 hour
Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Vast218]
    #28522460 - 10/29/23 02:39 PM (2 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Stipe-n Cap said:

One thing that confused me as a noob was that I thought the droplets were a direct consequence of misting, they are not! No amount of misting will produce these droplets on coir (I have tried lol).

The droplets are formed when the mycelium “squeezes” water out of the wet substrate as it grows. So all that matters is starting with the right level hydration and let mycelium growth do the rest, no misting needed.

Sorry I know this is obvious to most of you here, but some newbies might be confused like I was.




Noob here. Not obvious to me. Thanks for the info. I assumed it was from misting.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | Next >

Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Gypsum Dingo_lmaos 88 3 01/23/24 09:39 PM
by LogicaL Chaos
* Gypsum and Drywall Compound nettwerk 2,139 5 03/21/03 09:32 AM
by nettwerk
* Outdated/not Cubensis info in T.M.C. kristen 1,149 6 05/25/06 10:02 PM
by RogerRabbit
* gypsum? Loop_Theorist 899 6 09/30/02 04:24 PM
by Lost_Prophet
* gypsum ? Chemical_Smile 996 3 09/25/01 10:59 PM
by paulishminob
* how do i use gypsum? shirley knott 3,070 8 03/14/03 11:37 AM
by shirley knott
* adding gypsum to qt jars Horseman 3,967 10 09/14/23 04:04 PM
by Screwup
* Gypsum Substitute? condonethis 10,692 10 09/30/20 11:26 PM
by brownstone420

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
6,334 topic views. 34 members, 197 guests and 68 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.028 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 13 queries.