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OfflineViaggio
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Meaning?
    #2847308 - 07/01/04 02:20 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Why are most convinced that there must be meaning to life?  Just curious...

:syringe:


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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InvisibleApril
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Re: Meaning? [Re: Viaggio]
    #2847319 - 07/01/04 02:25 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Because it would make our existance pointless... People don't want that!


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: Meaning? [Re: Viaggio]
    #2847339 - 07/01/04 02:33 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

What might lead a person into believing otherwise..?


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Meaning? [Re: Viaggio]
    #2847342 - 07/01/04 02:34 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

"Meaning" is subjective. You make up your own meaning. If you make it so for you, then it is for you.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Meaning? [Re: Viaggio]
    #2847485 - 07/01/04 03:26 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

> Why are most convinced that there must be meaning to life?

How else could I justify telling you how to live your life?


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Meaning? [Re: Viaggio]
    #2848158 - 07/01/04 06:47 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

It's about what life is meant by you...
And this 'meaning' exists with and from you...
Brought to the objectivity, the factor of 'existance' makes out all the meaning that life can bear. That's also for the existance of 'meaning'.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: Meaning? [Re: Viaggio]
    #2848412 - 07/01/04 08:26 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe it's like air...I can't see it, but I know it's there.


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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Offlineergot
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Re: Meaning? [Re: Viaggio]
    #2848921 - 07/01/04 11:31 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

"It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure." - Albert Einstein


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"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Meaning? [Re: Viaggio]
    #2848987 - 07/01/04 11:45 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

We are here to multiply and advance. I feel that the earth is merely an egg for humanity...someday it will hatch (if we don't break it first), and mankind will reach maturity. While humanity is merely another species of animal, evolution has handed us the stewardship of the planet and we will use our position to expand beyond it.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Meaning? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2849634 - 07/02/04 02:05 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

We are here to multiply and advance.

Excellent!

The one real "purpose" to Life that I can prove (to myself, anyway) is the purpose of procreation.


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You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Meaning? [Re: Viaggio]
    #2850309 - 07/02/04 07:44 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

meaning is resonance.
a good resonance is like a hug.


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: Meaning? [Re: trendal]
    #2850427 - 07/02/04 09:28 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Procreation makes sense, but what happens if a person's sex drive is purposely lowered via various medical means? Wouldn't they develop a new purpose? A new aim in life? There are so many chemicals and hormones. Too much or too little of any (such as testosterone, dopamine, etc) would easily affect the way someone might percieve a purpose. So is the purpose of my life to follow all of my natural urges?

Like most topics at S&P, I think this has been discussed before...purpose and meaning are different, right?


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Meaning? [Re: Viaggio]
    #2850527 - 07/02/04 10:20 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

there is always resonance
look at the paintings done by old guys --- numinous with meaning.

deferring meaning to testosterone is too much soccer and boobs.

no resonance, no meaning.
nodding your head now would be some resonance.

even bugs have sex, it is not that meaningfull unless full of resonance.


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: Meaning? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #2850578 - 07/02/04 10:54 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

It's interesting that you brought up a painting.  They do appear to be numinous with meaning, and completely opened to interpretation.  I guess life is to.  But I still wonder, why can't the painting just be beautiful?  It may seem to have meaning, but is it really there?

I think we should ask the painter.  Anyone got his number?  :pimpin:


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Meaning? [Re: Viaggio]
    #2850617 - 07/02/04 11:13 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I think beauty and meaning are crossover ideals.
they braid into a single direction


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Offlineobfuscatelesol
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Re: Meaning? [Re: Viaggio]
    #2853329 - 07/03/04 05:59 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not sure if you're asking the right question here... Meaning can be found everywhere. We can see meaning in a tree, in our thoughts of the tree, in our absense of thoughts of the tree, but again this is all subjective. We will all find some sort of meaning in something, as long as we still have our egos and dualisitc points of view (or maybe even without them, I wouldn't know).

Now where a lot of people go wrong is in thinking, or assuming, or expecting that there is a purpose to life. People just have a hard time accepting things as it is, and accepting us and our existence as it is. Why? I'm not quite sure, I'm not one to suspect a purpose to life. Maybe out of fear... fear that all of our work, all of our anger, greed, annoyance, love, compassion, friendship and everything else we've done in life has been done in vain, and on a closer look, hasn't really done anything at all.

I feel that a liberating point of view (just in terms of state of being) is to just watch things as they play out, see the interconnectedness of everything (and I do mean everything) and just enjoy the cosmic orgiastic joke, without too much attachment to any meaning, purpose, or anything else. But I guess there is meaning in that, right?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Meaning? [Re: Viaggio]
    #2853856 - 07/03/04 01:47 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Because the antithesis of 'Meaning' is 'Despair,' the psychological response to the philosophy of 'Meaninglessness.' This, at least was how Christian existential philosopher Immanuel Kant put it at the beginning of the 19th century. Another fine word for this negative condition is 'Nihilism' - "a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless." -Merriam-Webster

Now, there are lots of people who derive a sense of ego-strength from entertaining the notion of Nihilism as being 'the truth,' and basically challenge everyone by asking: ''What's the matter, can't handle it?!" Such people attack the beliefs of others with cynicism, unbelief, atheistic responses, and accusations of childish 'wish fulfillment' deriving from Freudian psychoanalysis. Such people may have begun the Work of demythologizing their former religious beliefs, but they haven't gone far enough and they tend to 'throw the baby out with the bathwater.'
Fearful that 'nothing matters,' they lose the ability to listen once again to a message of hope, lose the ability to 'behold, all things are made new.' Even the intense here and nowness of the Psychedelic Experience fails to awaken these people to new-found faith and hope, and of course these deficiencies do not exactly lend themselves to being a loving person either.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Meaning? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2853893 - 07/03/04 02:06 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
We are here to multiply and advance. I feel that the earth is merely an egg for humanity...someday it will hatch (if we don't break it first), and mankind will reach maturity. While humanity is merely another species of animal, evolution has handed us the stewardship of the planet and we will use our position to expand beyond it.




Indeed, we are here to multiply, to divide, to exponentiate, and all those other mathematical functions.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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OfflineViaggio
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Re: Meaning? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2853899 - 07/03/04 02:09 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Nice post, Markos, but I hope no one misunderstands my view.  I do not have any despair nor any sort of nihilistic arrogance.  I genuinely ask these questions in hopes that someone will provide something new for me to consider.  Or (possibly) help fortify a subtle belief?  There isn't enough that makes sense or seems believable (to me), so my slate is mostly clean.

I am agnostic...so I ask questions :smile:


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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


Edited by viaggio (07/04/04 03:22 AM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Meaning? [Re: Viaggio]
    #2856287 - 07/04/04 02:22 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

The only reason I claim 'to Know,' is like C.G. Jung's response to John Freeman's BBC interview during which Jung was asked if he 'believed in GOD.' Jung replied: "I do not need to believe - I Know." This does NOT have to be taken as arrogance. Knowing or Gnosis is a species of theological "assurance," or 'certainty' which derives from mystical religious experience. The Intuition, the unshakable conviction of the Reality of the Eternal Presence constitutes 'Gnosis.' Now, even though that awareness is not always intensely evident, it waxes and wanes throughout one's day-to-day life, and when its Presence is not immediately Known, one can then still say with conviction, "I believe." I would have no 'beliefs' if I had not first experienced the transcendental. So, even though "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believed," I have 'seen,' feel blessed for having 'seen,' and now I Know AND I believe.

Exactly 'what' I believe does change - with regard to doctrines - but the Knowing remains the Constant, even though I must reformulate to myself and others what my 'beliefs' are. They change as I develop and become more conscious and as I demythologize beliefs which had previously been unconsciously assumed and not scrutinized for which degree of Reality they best represent: literal, allegorical, symbolic, or mystical.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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