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InvisibleFiery
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How in the world have Americans been so stuck in their ways for so long
    #28470665 - 09/16/23 12:46 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

How in the world has America been predominately a two party system for so long! This has led to deep rooted power and money with corruption involved, and the longer we go on the harder it is to unravel! I mean just look at the recent rebellions against "the system" and what happened there.

Remember how No civilization lasts forever? Many times recently I've heard America is at the end of it's "life" as we know it. I mean, we're talking like a 50 year timeline till the America as we know it is no more.

Thoughts?


Edited by Fiery (09/16/23 06:45 AM)


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Invisiblejack_straw2208
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: Fiery] * 1
    #28470671 - 09/16/23 01:37 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

Well churches are losing power, I mean, sure abortions illegal in some states for now but there are organizations dedicated to sidestepping that and providing better options to women who need them. I personally believe abortion should be viewed as a medical issue and should be freely available for any or no reason.

I think it'll get overturned before long.

I think legalizing marijuana and using psychedelics to treat mental health are going to have a huge impact on the next few generations, and I think it's gonna be shakey and precarious but also that we're poised on the brink of a new age of wealth and prosperity, as addictive as the doom and gloom stories can be.

All the breakthroughs and leaps in the last 20 years alone. I mean we could always blow it up but that's not as fun to guess about for me.

Shits bad but I think people are still getting used to having news and social media in their pockets at all times like even pooping and what have you.


--------------------
If you can’t tell what you desperately need, it’s probably sleep.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: Fiery]
    #28470719 - 09/16/23 05:02 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Fiery said:
How in the world has America been predominately a two party system for so long! This has led to deep rooted power and money with corruption involved, and the longer we go on the harder it is to unravel! I mean just look at the recent rebellions against "the system" and what happened there.

Remember how No civilization lasts forever? Many times recently I've heard America is at the end of it's "life" as we know it. I mean, we're talking like a 50 year timeline till the America as we know it is no more.

Thoughts?



My thoughts is we get so focused on the 2 party system being bad which it is that we tend to gloss over the fact that there's not alot of great systems of governance.

Serious question. What system do you think would actually work in america? parliamentary/monarchy/socialism/communism? I don't see alot of great options.

Arabic countries are stuck in barbaric ways but we don't talk about it because we want to be supportive, we know that there's alot of good people and good food there,we know the civilians don't reflect the governments actions. We know that it can be a good country even if they execute people for drinking or being gay because it's the people that make the country good or bad. The problems we have is with the leaders and radicals not the people of the country.  Why shouldn't we view ourselves that way?


--------------------
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Offlinerxb
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28470750 - 09/16/23 06:30 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:

Fiery said:
How in the world has America been predominately a two party system for so long! This has led to deep rooted power and money with corruption involved, and the longer we go on the harder it is to unravel! I mean just look at the recent rebellions against "the system" and what happened there.

Remember how No civilization lasts forever? Many times recently I've heard America is at the end of it's "life" as we know it. I mean, we're talking like a 50 year timeline till the America as we know it is no more.

Thoughts?



My thoughts is we get so focused on the 2 party system being bad which it is that we tend to gloss over the fact that there's not alot of great systems of governance.

Serious question. What system do you think would actually work in america? parliamentary/monarchy/socialism/communism? I don't see alot of great options.

Arabic countries are stuck in barbaric ways but we don't talk about it because we want to be supportive, we know that there's alot of good people and good food there,we know the civilians don't reflect the governments actions. We know that it can be a good country even if they execute people for drinking or being gay because it's the people that make the country good or bad. The problems we have is with the leaders and radicals not the people of the country.  Why shouldn't we view ourselves that way?




the us has many barbaric ways of our own... cops arresting people in their own yards without warrents, taking people in for failure to show papers... while not breaking laws.

the system is in a state of decay...

some forums you cant even say certain things without getting banned from discussions...

its a whole mess. lol


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28470756 - 09/16/23 06:40 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

Britain has 4 parties, but nobody has voted for two of them since 1920. At least they aren't troubled with questions about 3rd parties.

I hate to make this argument, but I think it is proof that the two party system was not forced on us.


--------------------
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InvisibleFiery
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: jack_straw2208]
    #28470760 - 09/16/23 06:46 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

jack_straw2208 said:
Well churches are losing power, I mean, sure abortions illegal in some states for now but there are organizations dedicated to sidestepping that and providing better options to women who need them. I personally believe abortion should be viewed as a medical issue and should be freely available for any or no reason.

I think it'll get overturned before long.

I think legalizing marijuana and using psychedelics to treat mental health are going to have a huge impact on the next few generations, and I think it's gonna be shakey and precarious but also that we're poised on the brink of a new age of wealth and prosperity, as addictive as the doom and gloom stories can be.

All the breakthroughs and leaps in the last 20 years alone. I mean we could always blow it up but that's not as fun to guess about for me.

Shits bad but I think people are still getting used to having news and social media in their pockets at all times like even pooping and what have you.





GREAT POST! WOW, so many truths here!


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #28470761 - 09/16/23 06:47 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:


Serious question. What system do you think would actually work in america? parliamentary/monarchy/socialism/communism? I don't see alot of great options.





A democratic system with more than 2 parties that are so deeply ingrained they can't be erased or defeated in elections.


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28470763 - 09/16/23 06:49 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Britain has 4 parties, but nobody has voted for two of them since 1920. At least they aren't troubled with questions about 3rd parties.

I hate to make this argument, but I think it is proof that the two party system was not forced on us.





Interesting, but to me it's just unwise to limit ourselves in America to two parties who make major decisions in our lives. I think its brainwashing from years of conditioning. And also makes corruption much easier.


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Offlinerxb
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: Fiery]
    #28470779 - 09/16/23 07:27 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

again 3rd and 4th parties WOULD do well here if given a voice.

suppression is the key.

if you believe people arent voting third party because they listened to all sides and made their own unmodified decisions about what they individually thought sounded best to them.

thats not happening here.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Offlinegww
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: rxb]
    #28470788 - 09/16/23 07:42 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

I disagree.  I think people listen but even if they like what is said, they factor in chances of what is said getting done.  You can have the best ideals in the world but with out a support group helping you accomplish them, they are just ideals.  Our system works like it does cause that is the nature of the beast for it to work in actual governing.  This is why things that are easily seen as good or bad take a bit for shifts to relate per legislation.  Unlike a dictator that is top down.  The good thing about our system is that there is hope of eventual improvement with out revolution.  As long as we don't end up with a Caesar.  Everybody talks about third party rather then working on the party they have.  That is why isreal and the nazis ended up like they do when one party has to work with the other one to get rid of the third one.  This does not mean a party can not become obsolete and replaced like hopefully happens to the republican party which no longer stands for policy but just power but hopefully the other party still has a chance so things can not move to far too fast bad though this means good comes slow as well.


Edited by gww (09/16/23 07:43 AM)


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Offlinerxb
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: gww]
    #28470856 - 09/16/23 09:00 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

gww said:
I disagree.  I think people listen but even if they like what is said, they factor in chances of what is said getting done.  You can have the best ideals in the world but with out a support group helping you accomplish them, they are just ideals.  Our system works like it does cause that is the nature of the beast for it to work in actual governing.  This is why things that are easily seen as good or bad take a bit for shifts to relate per legislation.  Unlike a dictator that is top down.  The good thing about our system is that there is hope of eventual improvement with out revolution.  As long as we don't end up with a Caesar.  Everybody talks about third party rather then working on the party they have.  That is why isreal and the nazis ended up like they do when one party has to work with the other one to get rid of the third one.  This does not mean a party can not become obsolete and replaced like hopefully happens to the republican party which no longer stands for policy but just power but hopefully the other party still has a chance so things can not move to far too fast bad though this means good comes slow as well.




yes part of suppression of 3rd parties is to say, if you vote a 3rd party you will get a "trump" or ... some other keyword for monster you arent voting for.

that is indeed part of the procress. what they are claiming is impossible and all the smart people know it and you will just give more votes to the bad guys... so get in line and vote the corruption you hate less.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Offlinerxb
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: rxb]
    #28470858 - 09/16/23 09:01 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

example we cant afford 20 billion for single payer health care....

but hey we found an extra 10 billion under this chair... and we are sending it to the ukraine


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


Edited by rxb (09/16/23 09:02 AM)


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: rxb]
    #28470860 - 09/16/23 09:03 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
again 3rd and 4th parties WOULD do well here if given a voice.

suppression is the key.

if you believe people arent voting third party because they listened to all sides and made their own unmodified decisions about what they individually thought sounded best to them.

thats not happening here.





Damn right about this. America is Basically like the Wizard of Oz, where the elite politicians are the "Man behind the screen" in this metaphor.



*MY* speculation is maybe not this election but the next- a new powerful, charismatic leader will arise, and be elected as President of the USA. Someone unexpected. Not a democrat or Repubelican either. Mark my words here- And this person might even be the anti Christ that leads the world into nuclear disaster.

Ok- let me put my crystal ball down.


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Offlinerxb
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: Fiery]
    #28470867 - 09/16/23 09:08 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

shrug... my guess is... based on history... if a 3rd party gets close, one of the 2 parties will blend into the new whig party... and we will have a 2 party system once more.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: rxb]
    #28470870 - 09/16/23 09:10 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

Yeah or it will go straight up Ecuadorian style and they will just execute any opposition- but here in America they'd have to do a cover up like gang violence or political madman sniper because that open face drive by in broad daylight doesn't fly here in America in most places(YET)


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Offlinerxb
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: Fiery]
    #28470874 - 09/16/23 09:14 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Fiery said:
Yeah or it will go straight up Ecuadorian style and they will just execute any opposition- but here in America they'd have to do a cover up like gang violence or political madman sniper because that open face drive by in broad daylight doesn't fly here in America in most places(YET)




they did get pac tho.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Offlinegww
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: rxb]
    #28470879 - 09/16/23 09:19 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

I hear you but on the other hand, my grandma in the 70s lived in a house that had no running water, no duct work, single pane windows, no storm windows.  My other grand parents raised seven kids in a two bedroom house.  All the wealth we see today does not solve every problem and also is not the only important thing that happens in life but is also hard to look at and say how bad it is today when as a whole, we have always had problems, always will but it ain't that bad.  My uncle use to tell me when ice cream was a nickel, he never had one but when it was a dollar, he could get it anytime he wanted.  This is not to discount what could be possible or say be satisfied but more just to add perspective.  Our rivers did used to be dirtier.  You can hardly find a gravel road anymore.  All government is not bad.


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Offlinerxb
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: gww] * 1
    #28470885 - 09/16/23 09:24 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

gww said:
I hear you but on the other hand, my grandma in the 70s lived in a house that had no running water, no duct work, single pane windows, no storm windows.  My other grand parents raised seven kids in a two bedroom house.  All the wealth we see today does not solve every problem and also is not the only important thing that happens in life but is also hard to look at and say how bad it is today when as a whole, we have always had problems, always will but it ain't that bad.  My uncle use to tell me when ice cream was a nickel, he never had one but when it was a dollar, he could get it anytime he wanted.  This is not to discount what could be possible or say be satisfied but more just to add perspective.  Our rivers did used to be dirtier.  You can hardly find a gravel road anymore.  All government is not bad.




sure enough my point tho is... give the people healthcare?? NOO TOO EXPENCIVE... bomb the shit out of another country??? look we found this money we forgot was sitting there... here are 10 new planes...and 3 tanks and dont forget the matches...and ciggarettes. here you go friend!!!

<homeless person says> buddy can you spare a dollar for some chicken?...

nope im busy shipping this tank to the russian front.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Offlinegww
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: rxb] * 1
    #28470904 - 09/16/23 09:39 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

It is not bad to have friends and my belief is our support of Ukraine is the right thing.  I even believe long term it will help us toward the health care thing.  I do agree that we would save money on health if we had single payer and increase access.  We would have impact against workers for insurance companies and I don't know cost wise where that fits but we could do it and it would make Americans over all more free in their choices of making a living cause a specific job would not hold as much sway.  It would be a step forward in my mind.  I don't think just letting Russia doing the bombing is a good answer and do not believe the money on that stops the other.  Having the will and the want is what stops it.  Arguments like we should not negotiate with drug companies because it stops their innovation and this being believed is what stops us, not protecting our interest.  Arguments like somebody might get something for free rather then pulling themselves up by their boot straps or I don't want to pay for somebody I don't like is what stops it. Some of those arguments stop people from helping them selves if it means including someone they don't like.


Edited by gww (09/16/23 09:41 AM)


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Offlinerxb
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: gww]
    #28470908 - 09/16/23 09:43 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

our support of ukraine may very well be a good thing.

but it eximplifies there are PLENTY of funds to end hunger and sickness in the us.

we can do so in ways that would work with the economy and drive profits.

we choose to not help people in our own yards... but instead blow up our enemies.

thats who we are. fuck the sick fuck the hungry fuck the dying...and fuck the healthy russians too.

hell if you dont like mods being bullies... fuck your right to participate in conversations.

we are americans and we can censor and kill with reckless abandon... fuck your opinoins.

im not for it... im for hearing out all sides and coming to better ways of doing things and helping and including as many and as much as we can.

... shrug.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


Edited by rxb (09/16/23 09:44 AM)


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Offlinegww
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: rxb]
    #28470912 - 09/16/23 09:48 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

Like I said, we could but enough don't want to yet.  More do now then did yesterday though.


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Offlinerxb
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: gww]
    #28470920 - 09/16/23 09:55 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

gww said:
Like I said, we could but enough don't want to yet.  More do now then did yesterday though.




when enough voices are crying out to change the world... how many will be silenced by oppression.

if they werent already being silenced... defamed... mocked... etc... would we be doing more to fix hunger and suffering now?

the fact is many people just like to censor opposing views. and keep the world a place where you have to fight for your place in it to survive.

there are other ways to do it. but you have to fight against the oppression.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: gww]
    #28470923 - 09/16/23 09:56 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

America has never been big on welfare.  It's something cultural wherein we convince ourselves that hard work will lead to success.  If we start acknowledging the reality that good people who work hard can actually end up homeless and hungry, then it undermines our entire illusion of control over our own destinies.  The reason millionaires are admired here is because of the mythology that they somehow rose to that position by being more worthy.

I don't see it changing anytime soon.  The only real path to quick change on that front is an appeal to stability.  Homeless/hungry populations create instability, and throwing money at that problem will keep the ship moving for the rest of us who aren't losers, etc...


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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: Enlil]
    #28470930 - 09/16/23 10:02 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
America has never been big on welfare.  It's something cultural wherein we convince ourselves that hard work will lead to success.  If we start acknowledging the reality that good people who work hard can actually end up homeless and hungry, then it undermines our entire illusion of control over our own destinies.  The reason millionaires are admired here is because of the mythology that they somehow rose to that position by being more worthy.

I don't see it changing anytime soon.  The only real path to quick change on that front is an appeal to stability.  Homeless/hungry populations create instability, and throwing money at that problem will keep the ship moving for the rest of us who aren't losers, etc...




more status quo... more mind virus.... it is too hard so lets quit mentality.

you mock and censor and belittle everything that isnt already being done.

its short sighted... and its sad... change comes when the oppression of thoughts and ideas stops and people start working together to figure out a solution.

not when they sit back in their chair and say... oh it will never work dont bother trying... its hopeless its sad... you are nieve if you believe in change.

in another thread you litterally just told someone else that if they had a different opinion from you they should just not post... because they said that we were stuck in a loop that made it almost pointless.

its a form of bullying back to the status quo... and it fixes nothing and doesnt add ...

each voice even the ones you disagree with strongly like choppy for example have something noteworthy to add to the sum of the ideas... and blocking out and mocking all of that which you dont understand isnt making the community better.

its dumbing it down and feeding it with nehilism.

and a bit of your own narcissism.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: rxb]
    #28470933 - 09/16/23 10:04 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

I'm not mocking anyone.  I'm talking about how things are and offering a path forward.  If you take the butthurt-colored glasses off, you might see things as they actually are.


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Offlinerxb
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: Enlil]
    #28470938 - 09/16/23 10:06 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I'm not mocking anyone.  I'm talking about how things are and offering a path forward.  If you take the butthurt-colored glasses off, you might see things as they actually are.




maybe you dont mean to... or even know when you do it...

maybe you think you are a good guy... and making this all better.

but what you are doing is called supression. and you should stand back and become an equal participiant in conversations instead of throwing your weight around and railroading them.

again i dunno if you know you are doing it... but you do it alot and its for the worst.


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. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: Enlil]
    #28470940 - 09/16/23 10:07 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

I had a renter living in one of my houses that worked for browns shoe company for probably twenty years.  They lived in my house for probably 9 or 10.  She was diagnosed with MS and the plant closed and moved to mexico and they had to move from my house due to not being able to pay the rent.  I am pretty sure she did her part in the work department but stuff happens and you only have your part and no crystal ball.  I had 26 years when my plant closed and I had to move to indiana for four years which was a better option then nothing but nobody was getting hired for the job I took.  I get it and see it as a good thing to look up to those doing the right thing but also know there is more luck in life then people believe when it comes to outcome.


Edited by gww (09/16/23 10:09 AM)


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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: rxb]
    #28470943 - 09/16/23 10:08 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

ps as much as you have convenced yourself that im butthurt specifically about something you did to me.

im not.

its how you derail fruitful conversations that is bad. you are litterally off topic about leo in a conversation you banned me from cuz i was off topic about you.

its COMPLETELY hipocritical... and its suppressive and if you stopped it i would have no issues with you for you to be upset about ...

so stop

edit:

you have now litterally bullied me out of and banned me from THIS discussion for saying that your input in this discussion is supressive.

so you supressed me.... way to do the thing im asking you to stop doing ...


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


Edited by rxb (09/16/23 10:21 AM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: How in the world have Americans been so stuck int heir ways for so long [Re: gww]
    #28470947 - 09/16/23 10:13 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

In a nation as large as the U.S., things do not change very quickly.  America has a long tradition of pulling oneself up by the bootstraps.  That ethos is so ingrained in our culture that even the poor have convinced themselves that someday they will be rich.  The reality is that upward mobility, while certainly possible in the U.S., requires much more than talent and hard work.  Mostly, it requires luck.  No one wants to hear that, though.  No one who is successful wants to admit that luck played a major role.  The "American Dream" rests on the lie that people can choose to be successful.

There's no movement to change that ethos.  No one is even trying.  There's a solid buck to be made in selling people hope for future success.  It's the foundation of our economy.  You're not going to get public support to fix the homeless problem as long as they are seen to be victims of their own sloth.  Instead, you get people wanting them relocated, punished, etc.

If, however, you appeal to the idea that massive homeless populations can disrupt the system in a way that could make it fail, then you have more people willing to actually solve that problem.  No one who has been able to make it to middle class wants to lose that, so you start to get more support for spending real money for real solutions.


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