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breakbeatz69
Old School PF Tek’er



Registered: 09/09/23
Posts: 195
Last seen: 12 days, 18 hours
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Old School PF Teker TERRIFIED to dunk and use coir
#28469444 - 09/15/23 12:26 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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Ok so this is my second post here so bare with me. So I’ve recently got back into “mycology” and 20 some years ago I used the original PF Tek to grow. I Birthed when I was supposed to after seeing reddish heads in the jars, used a dual chambered terrarium, never dunked or coated in coir….etc.
After some great advice from another member who gave me links to the new TeK and swayed me to use a water tub instead of the dual chambered terrarium…..I’m TERRIFIED to fuck up my jars. Right now I have 24 jars that are on their way to being completely covered in mycelium of the B+ strain and another 24 jars I did a few days ago with LC penis envy. Point being, the B+ jars are getting close so I have some questions before I have a panic attack. Lol
So, as far as birthing goes, if I’m going to dunk and cover in coir, I know I need to birth about a week after the jars are fully colonized on the outside so the mycelium can grow a little longer. So am I supposed to birth before I see primordia forming and before I see the red heads pinning? Doesn’t this stop the cakes from developing shrooms all together by birthing too early?
Also, after dunking 20-24 hours, I know it’s coir time. I know I need to get the coir to “field capacity”, do you use cold, warm, or hot water for mixing up the coir?
And after I cover the cakes in coir, seal them in a water tub for a couple days then spray a fine mist from at least 3 ft above the tub to start the fruiting, what happens next? Do the mushrooms start growing through the coir layer from the cake inside? Or do the mushrooms just start growing from the mycelium that’s spread to the coir now?
Also, isn’t it bad to have even fine water droplets on the mycelium and shrooms once they start emerging?
The reason I’m asking these questions is because all of this seems to go against everything I was taught with the original Tek. Can someone or a lot of you answer my questions and then just tell me to chill the fuck out and that everything will work out fine please?? Lol I’m obviously trying the new Tek because the harvest yield just looks ridiculously huge going that route compared to the old method I’ve known my whole life.
And on a side note, why are all the pictures of the shrooms grown with the new Tek shown having white caps? Is that just because of the strain that was used? Will my B+’s sprout out with the normal reddish brown caps even if I use coir with the new Tek? Thanks in advance for any and all the help with my questions and any other advice anyone may have. You all rock!
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stroopwafelman


Registered: 03/21/23
Posts: 375
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Re: Old School PF Teker TERRIFIED to dunk and use coir [Re: breakbeatz69] 1
#28469468 - 09/15/23 02:39 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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Just follow the Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes and you should be good.
Birth before any primordia/pins are in the jar, no reason to wait until those show up, go with the usual 100% colonization + 7 days timeframe.
You can make the coir with room temp or hot water, it's an inert substance with no nutritional value for any contam that may be in the air. If you're paranoid like me you can pasteurize a jar of field capacity coir in a water bath. Make sure it cools down to room temp before casing obviously.
As for the droplets - tiny droplets = good, pools of water = bad.
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breakbeatz69
Old School PF Tek’er



Registered: 09/09/23
Posts: 195
Last seen: 12 days, 18 hours
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Re: Old School PF Teker TERRIFIED to dunk and use coir [Re: stroopwafelman]
#28469526 - 09/15/23 05:38 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
stroopwafelman said:Make sure it cools down to room temp before casing obviously.
And by “casing” you mean the coir is the case? Casing and its definition is a new word for me.
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breakbeatz69
Old School PF Tek’er



Registered: 09/09/23
Posts: 195
Last seen: 12 days, 18 hours
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Re: Old School PF Teker TERRIFIED to dunk and use coir [Re: stroopwafelman]
#28469529 - 09/15/23 05:42 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
stroopwafelman said: Just follow the Water Tub Tek for fruiting BRF cakes and you should be good.
Birth before any primordia/pins are in the jar, no reason to wait until those show up, go with the usual 100% colonization + 7 days timeframe.
You can make the coir with room temp or hot water, it's an inert substance with no nutritional value for any contam that may be in the air. If you're paranoid like me you can pasteurize a jar of field capacity coir in a water bath. Make sure it cools down to room temp before casing obviously.
As for the droplets - tiny droplets = good, pools of water = bad.
And then as far as fruiting goes, do the caps start growing on the coir layer or do the push through the coir layer from underneath?
And then will my caps be of normal color using coir?
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stroopwafelman


Registered: 03/21/23
Posts: 375
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Re: Old School PF Teker TERRIFIED to dunk and use coir [Re: breakbeatz69]
#28469530 - 09/15/23 05:43 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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Yes, the coir. You "case" the PF cakes with it. By the way don't be afraid to press it in with some force so it sticks, healthy PF cakes are fairly tough. The mycelium will colonize the coir too (check the water tub tek I linked above) and the mushrooms will appear on the surface of that mycelium. Not sure where you saw "white mushrooms" but at least a few pages in there are pics of normal colored cubes there.
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breakbeatz69
Old School PF Tek’er



Registered: 09/09/23
Posts: 195
Last seen: 12 days, 18 hours
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Re: Old School PF Teker TERRIFIED to dunk and use coir [Re: stroopwafelman]
#28469545 - 09/15/23 05:58 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
stroopwafelman said: Yes, the coir. You "case" the PF cakes with it. By the way don't be afraid to press it in with some force so it sticks, healthy PF cakes are fairly tough. The mycelium will colonize the coir too (check the water tub tek I linked above) and the mushrooms will appear on the surface of that mycelium. Not sure where you saw "white mushrooms" but at least a few pages in there are pics of normal colored cubes there.
Thanks, yeah I already read through the water tub Tek over and over since my first post. Another member linked that in my first post.
The White caps I kept seeing were from a link in my first post as well but in that thread it was asked why the caps were white but no one ever answered. Here’s the link: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27689057
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breakbeatz69
Old School PF Tek’er



Registered: 09/09/23
Posts: 195
Last seen: 12 days, 18 hours
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Re: Old School PF Teker TERRIFIED to dunk and use coir [Re: breakbeatz69] 2
#28469546 - 09/15/23 06:01 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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By the way, thanks for answering my questions. I really appreciate it. I searched and searched for answers but my questions weren’t very “search bar friendly”.
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PBJ710
Strangler


Registered: 07/05/19
Posts: 2,623
Last seen: 18 days, 7 hours
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Re: Old School PF Teker TERRIFIED to dunk and use coir [Re: breakbeatz69]
#28469561 - 09/15/23 06:29 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
breakbeatz69 said: The White caps I kept seeing were from a link in my first post as well but in that thread it was asked why the caps were white but no one ever answered. Here’s the link: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27689057
White flesh with colored/dark spores is from leucistic fruits. White flesh with clear spores is from albino fruits.
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breakbeatz69
Old School PF Tek’er



Registered: 09/09/23
Posts: 195
Last seen: 12 days, 18 hours
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Re: Old School PF Teker TERRIFIED to dunk and use coir [Re: PBJ710]
#28469565 - 09/15/23 06:33 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
PBJ710 said:
Quote:
breakbeatz69 said: The White caps I kept seeing were from a link in my first post as well but in that thread it was asked why the caps were white but no one ever answered. Here’s the link: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27689057
White flesh with colored/dark spores is from leucistic fruits. White flesh with clear spores is from albino fruits.
Ahhh…ok gotcha. Thanks.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,808
Loc: Canada
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Re: Old School PF Teker TERRIFIED to dunk and use coir [Re: breakbeatz69]
#28469576 - 09/15/23 06:43 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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Typically we don’t coat PF cakes in coir. The mycelium just tends to fully colonize the coir which then prevents it from doing its job, which is to provide a micro climate. It won’t hurt anything it just doesn’t help much. Instead you should coat the cakes in vermiculite. The verm tends to be colonized less aggressively.
I usually recommend that after the dunk you roll the cakes around in dry verm so it sticks better. Then be sure to wait at least an hour before misting. This helps the verm adhere to the cakes.
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breakbeatz69
Old School PF Tek’er



Registered: 09/09/23
Posts: 195
Last seen: 12 days, 18 hours
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Re: Old School PF Teker TERRIFIED to dunk and use coir [Re: Pastywhyte]
#28469595 - 09/15/23 06:58 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Typically we don’t coat PF cakes in coir. The mycelium just tends to fully colonize the coir which then prevents it from doing its job, which is to provide a micro climate. It won’t hurt anything it just doesn’t help much. Instead you should coat the cakes in vermiculite. The verm tends to be colonized less aggressively.
I usually recommend that after the dunk you roll the cakes around in dry verm so it sticks better. Then be sure to wait at least an hour before misting. This helps the verm adhere to the cakes.
Now I’m totally confused. Everyone else I’ve talked to said coir works better on brf cakes for fruiting than verm. I’m so confused now.
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breakbeatz69
Old School PF Tek’er



Registered: 09/09/23
Posts: 195
Last seen: 12 days, 18 hours
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Re: Old School PF Teker TERRIFIED to dunk and use coir [Re: breakbeatz69]
#28469597 - 09/15/23 06:59 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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I just want the best fruiting possible.
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wrongbenson
Beginner

Registered: 07/20/23
Posts: 61
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Re: Old School PF Teker TERRIFIED to dunk and use coir [Re: breakbeatz69]
#28469630 - 09/15/23 07:22 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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I'm a 1st time grower so even far less experienced than you. But I just went through the process and here are my thoughts.
Quote:
breakbeatz69 said: So am I supposed to birth before I see primordia forming and before I see the red heads pinning? Doesn’t this stop the cakes from developing shrooms all together by birthing too early?
From what I read, pins are fine, but not what you are looking out for to start birthing. Just full colonization +7 days (Mateja does less days for consolidation)
Quote:
breakbeatz69 said: Also, after dunking 20-24 hours, I know it’s coir time. I know I need to get the coir to “field capacity”, do you use cold, warm, or hot water for mixing up the coir?
And after I cover the cakes in coir, seal them in a water tub for a couple days then spray a fine mist from at least 3 ft above the tub to start the fruiting, what happens next? Do the mushrooms start growing through the coir layer from the cake inside? Or do the mushrooms just start growing from the mycelium that’s spread to the coir now?
I used boiling water to rehydrate and steam as I saw in a bunch of threads. Let it cool and added cold water to cool. I used 4.5:1 ratio but was too dry so added more until field capacity. In Mateja's thread he says he has a bowl of water and wets his hands when forming the cakes pressing in the coir or it won't stick (I didn't do this but will next time). Also says 5-10mm thick layer which I followed but thought was way too thick - I will try <5mm next. Also Mateja stresses a lot that you don't mist until the coir layer is 50-75% colonized. if you mist before then you won't get the beading and proper surface conditions and end up with a soggy cake.
Some photos with dates so you have an idea. I had 2 verm cakes out of 18. 08/27 - birthdate
08/29 - some myc forming. these are prob too dry with my 4.5:1 coir ratio. also obviously not compressed in enough with loose bits all over and a mess.
 
08/31 - seeing some pins even though there's no FAE and no misting

09/03 - I moved the 50%+ cakes + pinned cakes to a new tub to introduce FAE and misting. Advise from shroomery was to just leave the cakes and introduce FAE and misting but I didn't want to waterlog the cakes that weren't ready ; the later cakes that I was patient with and let colonize on their own time did really well.

09/06 - harvested those premature pins that grew from 09/03. bottom left cake pins abort - I attribute this to too much FAE (i had lid flipped and diagonally displaced on top). I don't really have any aborts from here on out.

09/07

09/10 Was able to get better results once I figured out what conditions they want (something like below pic). Which is about like 1.25 mists per day and the lid right side up but just slightly ajar (I just rest it on one of the container handles in the locked position). Harvested too late on below oops.

Edited by wrongbenson (10/03/23 01:19 PM)
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wrongbenson
Beginner

Registered: 07/20/23
Posts: 61
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Re: Old School PF Teker TERRIFIED to dunk and use coir [Re: breakbeatz69]
#28469663 - 09/15/23 07:44 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
breakbeatz69 said: Now I’m totally confused. Everyone else I’ve talked to said coir works better on brf cakes for fruiting than verm. I’m so confused now.
Mateja says he doesn't have access to verm where he lives, so coir is used just really based on availability. From there people in the water tub thread just started using coir. He/she also recommended coir for beginners because it is easier to see what proper surface conditions look like.
I did notice that the myc colonized my coir cakes near 100% at times and I had so many pins growing in every direction from the sides, top, etc. and they grew slower or not as big sometimes as a concentrated cluster. I'll definitely do like half verm cakes and half coir cakes next time after reading what PastyWhyte says above. One of my two VERM cakes looked beautiful (i posted above) and the other verm was 1 of 18 cakes that didn't produce. But I believe that is because I birthed it way too early and maybe had a contam area that I dug out that wasn't colonized (I birthed all 18 jars on same day and that was the slowest jar and not at 100% yet).
Edited by wrongbenson (09/15/23 08:05 AM)
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Hysteria
Bum Looker


Registered: 02/19/23
Posts: 841
Loc: New England USA
Last seen: 3 hours, 46 minutes
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Re: Old School PF Teker TERRIFIED to dunk and use coir [Re: breakbeatz69]
#28469848 - 09/15/23 10:10 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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Pastywhyte is a god here and I'm nothing compared to him when it comes to mush cult, but I have to disagree about coir on cakes, at least for the water tub specifically. Coir is a thousand times better than verm in a water tub. Do half in coir and half in verm and you will see for yourself.
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breakbeatz69
Old School PF Tek’er



Registered: 09/09/23
Posts: 195
Last seen: 12 days, 18 hours
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Re: Old School PF Teker TERRIFIED to dunk and use coir [Re: Hysteria] 1
#28469863 - 09/15/23 10:25 AM (4 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Hysteria said: Pastywhyte is a god here and I'm nothing compared to him when it comes to mush cult, but I have to disagree about coir on cakes, at least for the water tub specifically. Coir is a thousand times better than verm in a water tub. Do half in coir and half in verm and you will see for yourself.
Yeah, I trust everyone more than myself with the new method. Just because I have some years behind me cultivating the original PF Tek way….birthing early, dunking, coir, and water tubs are all foreign to me.
With that being said, I bought the coir, so that’s the route I’m gonna go this time. Maybe I’ll try the verm on the live culture penis envy cakes I just started if the coir doesn’t give me good results. But for now I’m gonna follow the previous advice and stick with the coir….no pun intended. Lol
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Edited by breakbeatz69 (09/15/23 10:26 AM)
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