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Seriously_trippin
Cosmic Guru Ganesh



Registered: 07/12/13
Posts: 14,470
Last seen: 5 hours, 12 minutes
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: sudly]
#28471800 - 09/17/23 01:17 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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sudly said: If he ran you would have been informed that he's not a socialist, some call him a democratic socialist, but I'd consider him almost with cuddly capatalism, similar to how Sweden operates.
You wouldn't be calling Sweden a socialist country if Bernie was the nominee.
A lot of Americans are in the water and they're being told the coast guard are pirates by the people that threw them in the water in the first place. Plenty of struggling people are voting against their own interests because of the political kabuki theatre they've been exposed to.
It isn't going to change, even though there are hypothetical ways to do it, they're overhauls of the system from the top down, and the head is rotten.
I don't share your optimism that if he ran the swing votes and republicans would've immediately understood he wasn't a socialist and even see him as a "buddy to capitalism"
Ive been the guy arguing exactly what youre arguing to independents and republicans and essentially they plugged their ears and yelled its socialism and that will make us communist. They use socialist and communist interchangably they care so little about discussing actual nuance.
Whenever anyone makes the comparison to places like Sweden and demonstrating how it can work in America its ALWAYS gets met with cries of "it's going to bankrupt us, it's going to turn us into socialist Venezuela,going to turn us into communist China, in Canada if you have cancer you have to wait months to get treatment, on and on and on. No one seems to care that it would save us money over the long run. They don't care about the countries that it works but because "America's bigger and different then Sweden" Until it came to the pandemic then they said Sweden didn't lock down and they had almost no covid.
People are interested in what proves their point they already decided on because talking heads on TV and the internet told them that was the case and they decided to agree.
I'm not saying Bernie wouldn't be good for the country. Ultimately I think it'd be a good thing long term for the country but also when it comes right down to it he wouldn't have been able to anything he promised without the house and senate approving and excuse me if I think that's extremely unlikely that they would've been able to agree on anything little alone fully socializing Healthcare in America.
-------------------- R.I.P Zombi3, Blue Helix Modest Mouse Zappa Slothie That Kid With The face ShLong Le Canard split_by_nine & Big Worm Forever Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,789
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It's a blend of good parts from socialist and capatalist policies, not a black and white one size fits all.
The majority of Republicans and democrats support universal background checks, parental leave and marijuana legalisation.
All things Bernie proposed, meaning he would get some republican votes on those alone.
The majority of democrats support universal healthcare but not the majority of republicans, a lot of the time because they don't know it would save the country trillions by removing the for profit middle man of insurance companies replacing them with a single government provider. There'd still be able to get private insurance, but would have their bases covered.
There's a variety of universal healthcare approaches, and they usually prioritise emergency cases and waiting times are an issue that can be worked on, but the overall is far more favourable and productive to a healthy America.
A strong president can use the power of his position to sway senate and house members to retain the presidents support, that an executive actions can get the ball rolling on a lot of issues.
I think there's a good chance Bernie would have won, and if he did, that he'd put in a better representative effort than we've seen any other president do.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,291
Last seen: 10 minutes, 43 seconds
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: Ice9]
#28471819 - 09/17/23 02:11 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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Ice9 said: Bigbadwooof must be unaware of all the recordings and notes that show that Trump knew the vote was both counted accurately and that claims of vote irregularities were false, pretty much immediately after the election.
Damn though, that dude got red pilled hard. Sad really.
Have you even seen the matrix bro? Lol
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: Enlil]
#28471823 - 09/17/23 02:20 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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Enlil said:
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Bigbadwooof said:
January 6th was a protest. A peaceful protest.
You've said some stupid shit, but this is might be the pinnacle of stupid shit. How many people have to die before it crosses over the line from "peaceful?"
This may be the dumbest post you've ever made. Who died in the January 6 protest? Someone had a stroke, someone had a heart attack... and the cops shot a lady. I guess some dude got trampled to death, but if you can't mosh stay out of the pit.
People died in peaceful civil rights protests back in the day. It happens.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,291
Last seen: 10 minutes, 43 seconds
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#28471824 - 09/17/23 02:23 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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I dunno fellas... The number one person Trump didn't want to go against was Sanders, and Trump, for all of his faults, is good at reading the crowd. He knew he would lose.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,789
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#28471839 - 09/17/23 03:14 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
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Bigbadwooof said:
January 6th was a protest. A peaceful protest.
You've said some stupid shit, but this is might be the pinnacle of stupid shit. How many people have to die before it crosses over the line from "peaceful?"
This may be the dumbest post you've ever made. Who died in the January 6 protest? Someone had a stroke, someone had a heart attack... and the cops shot a lady. I guess some dude got trampled to death, but if you can't mosh stay out of the pit.
People died in peaceful civil rights protests back in the day. It happens.
You are into some Orwellian shit brother.
You reppin the slogan, "War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength."
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,340
Loc: attending Snake Church
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: sudly]
#28471847 - 09/17/23 03:32 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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Bigbadwooof said:
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Seriously_trippin said:
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Bigbadwooof said: When the Republicans had an insurgent, grass roots candidate rise up in their party, that candidate was allowed to win the nomination, and go on to be president. This is something that cannot happen in the Democratic party. They won't allow it.
Democrats don't believe in Democracy, they are currently rigging the nomination process in the primary election, for the 3rd time, more brazenly than ever.
https://x.com/RobertKennedyJr/status/1701682584881643691?s=20
How can anyone vote for a Democrat?
Trump litterally told everyone the election was rigged with 0 proof. Lost 60 court cases alot of which by judges appointed by him, tried to use a slate of fake electors, tried to make mike pence just declare him president, urged his rabid followers to March on the capitol with strength and had rudy guiliani come out and say there should be "trial by combat".
For the first time in history the democratic transfer of power was halted by supporters of a president. His supporters literally stopped the democratic transfer of power in a fair and free democracy with 0 proof that it was stolen and still lied to all his supporters.
Wow dude. You act as if Trump is the first presidential candidate to contest the outcome of an election. Politicians do this all the time, not just presidential candidates. It's actually a function of democracy. If we're not allowed to question the results of an election, then we don't have democracy.
In those cases, if Biden really did win, the system worked. So, what is your problem? He has every right to sue if he wants to.
By the way, the "democratic transfer of power" was not "Halted", so that's just made up nonsense. I don't know where you're getting that from.
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He begged for Georgia Republicans to "Find" votes for him and you have the gall to say it's democrats who dont care about democracy!?!
Because he believed he had won. He believed there were votes uncounted. He wanted them to find them. This, in my mind, is entirely political and overblown.
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You and every other trump supporter I've talked to about Jan 6th has 0 proof that the U.S. election was stolen yet still insists that democracy is rigged because some fat turd and political pundits told you it was true. You give 0 shits about burden of proof and in the process has damaged American democracy and really democracy across the world irreparably.
I never said the election was stolen in the first place. I'm not a Trump supporter, firstly. The last person I voted for was Bernie Sanders. I never voted for Trump lol!
January 6th was a protest. A peaceful protest. It was not an "insurrection". Nobody tried to take over the government. You'd think if a bunch of gun nuts wanted to take over the government... They would have brought some fucking guns with them.
By the way, you don't think the Clinton Campaign weaponizing the FBI against Donald Trump and lying to the American people (Russiagate) for years on end to smear the man, because he won the election, is a thousand times worse?
They are using the judicial system to criminalize their opponents, instead of trying to defeat them in a democratic election process.
It wasn't a political pundit... it was DONNA BRAZILE... She was the head of the DNC. That, and the fact that Super Delegates even exist (Only within the D party, mind you)... Which is utterly undemocratic. Donna Brazile explained how the 2016 election was rigged, and it was. Debbie Wasserman Schultz was forced to step down, because she was rigging the Democratic process. Anyone who was paying attention knows the election was rigged in many ways.
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The DNC does screw over people like Bernie Sanders because they know a socialist is going to get absolutely no swing votes and so they screw people like Bernie sanders out of a chance and yes that is wrong.
That's not why, but at least we can agree that they "Screw over" (Another term for "Rig the electoral process") grass roots candidates.

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But trump had all the evidence available and they can't find enough voter fraud or irrelegularities to overturn a single state, Bill barr (a man who authorized clearing peaceful protestors away with tear gas from a church so trump could take a stupid picture with a Bible) that guy does investigation after investigation and could find nothing, losing 60 court cases,strong arming rafensburger a guy who BTW had everything to lose and nothing to gain by lying to trump saying he didn't win the state, trump KNEW he lost but he also knew if he said he won and it was all rigged his supporters would eat it up so he did. He said fuck American democracy, fuck what the people want, id rather make every american born from now on distrust American democracy to the point of thinking democracy itself is rigged over a lie for me to save face and most Republicans just agreed with him because they wanted to be right. Still do.
Questioning the results of an election is one of the core functions that keeps the process honest. Americans SHOULD be skeptical of authority. They SHOULD not place blind faith in the system. This is not a problem.
What I am arguing in this thread, is that the Democratic primary nomination process is rigged, and will never produce a candidate of the people, but rather a candidate chosen by the establishment. That is plain as day to anyone who is paying attention.
Whether or not the General Election process is rigged, is a different topic. To a degree, I would say that it is, on it's face, somewhat fundamentally undemocratic, due to Gerrymandering and the Electoral College (both of which work against Democrats, mind you).
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So your argument that democrats are the ones who dont care about American democracy is fucking laughable.
Hardly. It's demonstrable. By the way, your arguments all revolve around one person in the Republican party, Donald Trump. Not the party itself. The Democratic party, in it's fundamental structure (because of Super Delegates), is anti-democratic. Now the Democratic party is literally not even allowing challenger candidates to run in the caucus states of Iowa and New Hampshire. Those states have traditionally been the most important early states win, and highly predictive of the election outcome overall.
They know Biden will lose those states, so they aren't even letting challengers compete. It's undemocratic. It's inexcusable. You seem to be alright with the party rigging elections against grass roots candidates. In my mind, that's every reason to never vote Democrat again. I'll vote third party, and help some other party gain traction, with my vote, and hopefully put the Democratic party to rest.
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Democrats are no saints..... but Trump
This is the problem with your politics. "but Trump" isn't a good reason to throw your ethics out the window and excuse the Democratic party's undemocratic actions.
One last thing I want to say. While it's true that Republicans have closed a large number of polling stations, it's also true that the Democratic party literally just throws voters (Sometimes even life-long Democrats) off the voter rolls, if they have information that shows they are likely to vote for a candidate like Sanders. If you don't believe me, look at what happened in New York city in 2016. To me, that's worse than closing voting stations, because they don't even have the option to drive further, and wait longer. They just don't get a say in the nomination process.
If I remember correctly, the Democrats, in 2016, closed voting stations in areas that supported Bernie too. So... Fuck Democrats.
A peaceful protest? First, it was a violent insurrection, and the prison sentences were well deserved. We had to send out the message, this is what you get if you mess with us.
Second, the Democratic Party didn't suddenly shift gears when they more or less fucked over Bernie. They had always been that way. They were going on the assumption that a leftist can't win, the lesson they learned from George McGovern in 72. McGovern only got nominated because people were sick of the war; there was little support for any of his other ideas. But in 2000 it's possible that Bernie could have won, but only because of Trump. An establishment Republican would have beat Bernie easily. Let's also not forget that after the California primaries, the Bernie voters stopped voting. If he had won there was no congressional support to push his progressive agenda anyway.
Blame the entire United States for being conservative. Blame the Democratic party for being hypocritical; they are. But until further notice the GOP is neofascist. I'll still vote for Democratic assholes no matter how bad they are. I can't criticize you voting third party. I used to do in my younger days. It's idealistic, but I lost my ideals, and 3rd party could act as spoiler and swing the election to the right, and the right is more of a threat to democracy (admittedly ultra-flawed democracy) than ever before. Yes I threw My ethics out the window a long time ago, and IMO Trump (or Disantes and Ramaswamy) are a good enough reason. Servants of capitalism are still better than Mussolini.
Also, what's the evidence for New York 2016 that was worse than closing polling stations. I wouldn't put anything past the Democrats, but I didn't hear about it.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,555
Loc: Utah
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: Brian Jones]
#28471854 - 09/17/23 03:50 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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Yeah, it's not a "peaceful protest" when you smash windows to break into congress, build a gallows, hang nooses, beat and kill the police who try to stop you, try to break through barricades to reach senators, bring zip ties, and look for senators to hang. But I guess some people will defend anything.
Let's be honest, everyone knows exactly what went down but some people will say any sequence of words they can to try to get away with it.
The prison sentences are letting them off easy. They wanted to hang our senators and congressmen, doing anything less to them is letting them off easy.
Anyone who supports and defends that shit is a traitor. They know it too, they know they want to overthrow the government. That's their whole thing. They just want to use any series of words to make them seem oh so innocent, but it's a bunch of bullshit.
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: nooneman]
#28471860 - 09/17/23 04:01 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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It's funny because what's left of the traditional Republicans agree. I never liked Mike Pence at all, but he stood up for the constitution at least. I think the more extreme of the rioters wanted to kill Pence even more than Pelosi or any Dem, if they could have got their hands on them.
The GOP always used to be the party of law and order.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,291
Last seen: 10 minutes, 43 seconds
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: Brian Jones] 1
#28471876 - 09/17/23 04:46 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (09/17/23 04:51 AM)
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,291
Last seen: 10 minutes, 43 seconds
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: Brian Jones]
#28471877 - 09/17/23 04:49 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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Brian Jones said: It's funny because what's left of the traditional Republicans agree. I never liked Mike Pence at all, but he stood up for the constitution at least. I think the more extreme of the rioters wanted to kill Pence even more than Pelosi or any Dem, if they could have got their hands on them.
The GOP always used to be the party of law and order.
The Democrats are the ones defending the FBI and the CIA now... it's all backwards. The Democrats are the party that stands against free speech.
I'm sorry, but if you want to talk about neofascism, I don't know how you don't see Democrats as worse. They are worse.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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christopera
Stranger


Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,201
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#28471884 - 09/17/23 04:59 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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Let’s see five examples of the Democratic Party being against free speech.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#28471886 - 09/17/23 05:03 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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Bigbadwooof said: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/officials-investigating-why-126000-voters-were-purged-from-ny-rolls
Bernie is from Brooklyn... obviously.. where they threw 126,000 voters off the voter rolls.
OK. That's a good source, and I couldn't find any others that didn't agree with your argument.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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christopera
Stranger


Registered: 10/13/17
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: Brian Jones]
#28471888 - 09/17/23 05:06 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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Voter rolls get purged all the time. I’m not saying I’m a proponent but it certainly is not unique to Brooklyn.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: christopera]
#28471915 - 09/17/23 05:43 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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christopera said: Voter rolls get purged all the time. I’m not saying I’m a proponent but it certainly is not unique to Brooklyn.
Bro.. this was NOT normal one bit.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,045
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 54 minutes, 20 seconds
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#28471933 - 09/17/23 06:17 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
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Bigbadwooof said:
January 6th was a protest. A peaceful protest.
You've said some stupid shit, but this is might be the pinnacle of stupid shit. How many people have to die before it crosses over the line from "peaceful?" This may be the dumbest post you've ever made. Who died in the January 6 protest? Someone had a stroke, someone had a heart attack... and the cops shot a lady. I guess some dude got trampled to death, but if you can't mosh stay out of the pit.
People died in peaceful civil rights protests back in the day. It happens.
There were three people who died during the protest, and a cop died the next day. There was a heated battle at the south entrance for hours. Saying it was peaceful is simply being in full denial of reality. Over 1000 people have been charged
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Brian Jones
Club 27



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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: koods] 1
#28471936 - 09/17/23 06:20 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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I'm not defending it all. Your NY argument is factually supported, and being in Brooklyn the Dems would be in charge. I can't think of any alternate explanation than it was to hurt Bernie. That's good to know, because I only knew about Iowa 2020 as blatant examples.
Certainly the establishment didn't want a progressive. Bernie surely was aware of that but still figured his chances were better with the Dems than running as a third party Democratic Socialist. Then he would have lost and siphoned votes from the Dems, which he was also aware of and maybe that was a huge factor in his decision. It didn't matter because Trump beat Hillary anyway.
So no it wasn't normal. I'm pessimistic and think everything's rigged when the stakes are high. The GOP is trying to stop nonwhites from voting in at least half the country. Given the SCOTUS and conservative dominace in many state goverfnments, they might get away with it.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,045
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 54 minutes, 20 seconds
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#28471940 - 09/17/23 06:27 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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Bigbadwooof said:
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christopera said: Voter rolls get purged all the time. I’m not saying I’m a proponent but it certainly is not unique to Brooklyn.
Bro.. this was NOT normal one bit.
Bro NYC was Clinton’s stronghold in New York. Clinton won every NYC borough. Removing voters from Brooklyn hurt Clinton. Clinton is yellow
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: koods]
#28471954 - 09/17/23 06:44 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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I think it's been made out to be a lot more than it was.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,291
Last seen: 10 minutes, 43 seconds
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: koods]
#28471956 - 09/17/23 06:44 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
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christopera said: Voter rolls get purged all the time. I’m not saying I’m a proponent but it certainly is not unique to Brooklyn.
Bro.. this was NOT normal one bit.
Bro NYC was Clinton’s stronghold in New York. Clinton won every NYC borough. Removing voters from Brooklyn hurt Clinton. Clinton is yellow

Bullshit. They should have let the voters decide.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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