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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: koods]
    #28468686 - 09/14/23 10:01 AM (4 months, 11 days ago)

The only difference between us and them is their love for tech.


--------------------


sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 2
    #28468726 - 09/14/23 10:51 AM (4 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
In this thread, what am I angry about? I'm angry about Biden busting a railroad strike. Something he clearly did. Do you disagree? I'm angry that Sanders was cheated out of the nomination, which we all know is a blatant fact. It's been acknowledged by Donna Brazil, and tacitly by DWS, when she stepped down. It's a fact. I'm angry that the Democrats are fundamentally anti-democracy. A clear fact, do you disagree?

You bet your fucking ass I'm angry. Angry at the factual reality we live in, and not this fictional bullshit world you fantasize about, where Dems are a "left" party in any meaningful way.

If you want to attack something, attack my argument, instead of my character. Yes, I am angry. No, I'm not crazy. I have very good reason to be angry... To feel disenfranchised. I'm sure to some extent you must feel angry and disenfranchised by the Democratic party. Our response to that anger is just different.

When I find myself in an abusive relationship... I'm inclined to walk away, and start something new.




Okay you're angry with the way things are - understandable - but what is this new thing you're inclined to start? How will switching parties or voting for a fringe (D) candidate bring about fundamental change?

Maybe by considering only the surface level behaviours of the incumbent Democratic party - without extending that critique to underlying structural causes that enable such behaviours - we're condemning ourselves to repeating the same mistakes.

Perhaps, instead of hoping to finally vote for that mythical politician who will selflessly act in the interests of the greater good, we should seek direct power and influence in how we live our own lives.


--------------------


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28468769 - 09/14/23 12:23 PM (4 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

In this thread, what am I angry about? I'm angry about Biden busting a railroad strike. Something he clearly did. Do you disagree?




I guess you only read the headlines. Strike averted and Biden got the workers sick leave behind the scenes.

https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid#:~:text=The%20IBEW%20and%20BNSF%20Railway,Norfolk%20Southern%20on%20March%2010.

Quote:

After months of negotiations, the IBEW’s Railroad members at four of the largest U.S. freight carriers finally have what they’ve long sought but that many working people take for granted: paid sick days.

This is a big deal, said Railroad Department Director Al Russo, because the paid-sick-days issue, which nearly caused a nationwide shutdown of freight rail just before Christmas, had consistently been rejected by the carriers. It was not part of last December’s congressionally implemented update of the national collective bargaining agreement between the freight lines and the IBEW and 11 other railroad-related unions.

“We’re thankful that the Biden administration played the long game on sick days and stuck with us for months after Congress imposed our updated national agreement,” Russo said. “Without making a big show of it, Joe Biden and members of his administration in the Transportation and Labor departments have been working continuously to get guaranteed paid sick days for all railroad workers.

“We know that many of our members weren’t happy with our original agreement,” Russo said, “but through it all, we had faith that our friends in the White House and Congress would keep up the pressure on our railroad employers to get us the sick day benefits we deserve. Until we negotiated these new individual agreements with these carriers, an IBEW member who called out sick was not compensated.”




--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (09/14/23 12:28 PM)


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28468774 - 09/14/23 12:29 PM (4 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Okay you're angry with the way things are - understandable - but what is this new thing you're inclined to start? How will switching parties or voting for a fringe (D) candidate bring about fundamental change?




Good to see you SW... Great post!

I'm not sure. I think that's a hallmark of left politics... People are upset, but they don't really know where to channel their energy. Like the Occupy "Movement". They had no list of demands and no leadership, and didn't accomplish anything.

I do see merit in voting for a fringe candidate. A less hawkish candidate, who hopefully will decrease military spending, and not saber rattle with Russia and China. That won't fix all of our problems, and I'm not certain what will. Replacing the party might root out the entrenched, lifelong bureaucrats within the party, and get some fresh, young blood in government, that has the will to do something better.

Quote:

Maybe by considering only the surface level behaviours of the incumbent Democratic party - without extending that critique to underlying structural causes that enable such behaviours - we're condemning ourselves to repeating the same mistakes.




Addressing structural causes is a monumental task. I think the constitution we have in America is excellent, and I don't think any attempt to change it would give us something better. I think we are condemned to make the same mistakes, and the system has to be refreshed from time to time, I guess.

Quote:

Perhaps, instead of hoping to finally vote for that mythical politician who will selflessly act in the interests of the greater good, we should seek direct power and influence in how we live our own lives.




I wish we could have ballot measures on federal issues. I wish we could put more limits on the power and size of the Federal government. I don't know how to go about doing that.

But I am with you.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: koods]
    #28468775 - 09/14/23 12:32 PM (4 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

In this thread, what am I angry about? I'm angry about Biden busting a railroad strike. Something he clearly did. Do you disagree?




I guess you only read the headlines. Strike averted and Biden got the workers sick leave behind the scenes.





God.. you're such a fucking propagandist mouthpiece dude.

Biden killed the strike.

It's not up to fucking Biden to get them anything.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (09/14/23 12:32 PM)


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #28468789 - 09/14/23 12:55 PM (4 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
The only difference between us and them is their love for tech.




They only "love tech", because they use tech to censor people. Democrats are the propagandist anti-free speech party.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28468791 - 09/14/23 01:00 PM (4 months, 11 days ago)

As republicans ban books like 1984 from schools:ilold:


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28468800 - 09/14/23 01:15 PM (4 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

I'm angry that Sanders was cheated out of the nomination, which we all know is a blatant fact.



How was he cheated? There was a primary, Biden got the most votes. Sounds like democracy to me. There's no point in whining over the fact that maybe in some scenario where the vote was split by people who knew they couldn't win, then the less popular candidate Bernie might have won.


--------------------


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28468865 - 09/14/23 02:54 PM (4 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

In this thread, what am I angry about? I'm angry about Biden busting a railroad strike. Something he clearly did. Do you disagree?




I guess you only read the headlines. Strike averted and Biden got the workers sick leave behind the scenes.





God.. you're such a fucking propagandist mouthpiece dude.

Biden killed the strike.

It's not up to fucking Biden to get them anything.




Yet that’s what happened or is the Union lying?


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinerxb
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28468897 - 09/14/23 03:34 PM (4 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

In this thread, what am I angry about? I'm angry about Biden busting a railroad strike. Something he clearly did. Do you disagree?




I guess you only read the headlines. Strike averted and Biden got the workers sick leave behind the scenes.





God.. you're such a fucking propagandist mouthpiece dude.

Biden killed the strike.

It's not up to fucking Biden to get them anything.




whoa whoa whoa.... difference of opinions and shit... he didnt rape your mother he just said you got the wrong story... ease the fuck up and talk instead of acting like enlil...fuck.

did what koods said, not happen? it seems like it did from everything i read about it... what did you read that contradicts this?


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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OfflineIce9
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: rxb]
    #28468899 - 09/14/23 03:37 PM (4 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

The IBEW and BNSF Railway reached an agreement April 20 to grant members four short-notice, paid sick days, with the ability to also convert up to three personal days to sick days.



https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: Ice9]
    #28468904 - 09/14/23 03:51 PM (4 months, 11 days ago)

Seems like Bigbadwolf spends his days being misinformed by Jimmy Dor.

Speaking of Jimmy Dore, turns out he’s been in the pocket of some oligarch


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: koods]
    #28468917 - 09/14/23 04:04 PM (4 months, 11 days ago)

Tucker writers would be proud



--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Offlinerxb
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: koods]
    #28469033 - 09/14/23 05:36 PM (4 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Seems like Bigbadwolf spends his days being misinformed by Jimmy Dor.

Speaking of Jimmy Dore, turns out he’s been in the pocket of some oligarch




follow up on that where?


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: Kizzle]
    #28469092 - 09/14/23 06:38 PM (4 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Kizzle said:
Quote:

I'm angry that Sanders was cheated out of the nomination, which we all know is a blatant fact.



How was he cheated? There was a primary, Biden got the most votes. Sounds like democracy to me. There's no point in whining over the fact that maybe in some scenario where the vote was split by people who knew they couldn't win, then the less popular candidate Bernie might have won.




The head of the DNC herself said they cheated him out of the nomination. Why don't you ask her?

I'm talking more Sanders/Clinton, though.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: rxb]
    #28469094 - 09/14/23 06:40 PM (4 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

In this thread, what am I angry about? I'm angry about Biden busting a railroad strike. Something he clearly did. Do you disagree?




I guess you only read the headlines. Strike averted and Biden got the workers sick leave behind the scenes.





God.. you're such a fucking propagandist mouthpiece dude.

Biden killed the strike.

It's not up to fucking Biden to get them anything.




whoa whoa whoa.... difference of opinions and shit... he didnt rape your mother he just said you got the wrong story... ease the fuck up and talk instead of acting like enlil...fuck.

did what koods said, not happen? it seems like it did from everything i read about it... what did you read that contradicts this?




The Democrats criminalized a Railroad strike, and then threw them a bone, for optics. So they could say, "Look what we did for you".

It's not their place to do any of that.


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Offlinegww
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28469192 - 09/14/23 07:51 PM (4 months, 11 days ago)

Nobody is perfect but you might look at the big picture and also learn math.  By the way, the congress that actually did it was a republican congress.  You think with out biden it would have been better?  Maybe you think the republicans would have went back and got the sick pay.  That is a laugh.  I was a local union president for three years in a plant with about 33oo employees and have been on strike and if I could find a way to put enough pressure on management to get what we needed with out striking, I would use it and so though I get your point and can see it clearly, I think over all it still is most important what those that would have paid the cost of a strike compared to what they got with out one think.  The union leaders and workers.


Edited by gww (09/14/23 07:54 PM)


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: gww]
    #28469240 - 09/14/23 08:28 PM (4 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

gww said:
Nobody is perfect but you might look at the big picture and also learn math.




"learn math" lmao!

... ok, I'll go do that!

Anywayyys... Even if this was some huge historic win for the union, I don't think it's right for a union to use the government to negotiate for them either. The government has no place involving themselves here.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinegww
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Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28469296 - 09/14/23 08:56 PM (4 months, 11 days ago)

The government is always involved.  Regan locked out traffic controllers.  It was always the local police that would break in and shoot the agitators in the early days.  It was the federal gov that put national guard between strikers and police to keep them from killing each other.  It is gov that make the laws that both are under.  If I got something in a contract, gov can take it away with some law.  Gov involvement is not the question but who they shoot is.  That would be a good history problem for you to look at if you want to understand more.  You being mad is part of the influence of that gov on which way they go.  If you really care about the rr workers, you need to be right as possible with your anger, put it in the right place.  It is those guys right now that need to be the judge of the out come.  I get the feeling you get when the workers are getting shot or locked out but also like it when I get a little help.  With out the gov, every strike would end up with a place filled with scabs.  The question is what happened this time as far as good or bad and only the workers can answer that as well as they are also not the only workers in the nation.  Big picture, what we got seems to be better then the alternative and nothing wrong with trying to even improve from there but going backwards won't help.

You gonna be mad at gov influence when you see senator bernie visiting the UAW picket lines tomorrow?

Unions were weakened when 17 republican governors all put right to work in their states at the same time.  Gov involvement no doubt.

Personally, as a union leader I got as mad as I needed to get what we needed but when it was over, gracious enough to be thankful for a win.


Edited by gww (09/14/23 09:12 PM)


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Invisiblenooneman
Male

Registered: 04/24/09
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Loc: Utah
Re: Democrats have no respect for Democracy [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 2
    #28469305 - 09/14/23 08:58 PM (4 months, 11 days ago)

Oh sure, vote for the party that tried to overturn the results of an election, refuses to accept those results, built a gallows with a noose outside of congress, broke into congress by force, killed police who tried to defend it, and tried to overthrow the government all because they didn't like that orange man didn't win.

Yeah, that's a party that loves democracy for sure!

Also RFK is a sleezy scumbag with zero chance of winning anything.


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