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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Capital Punishment/Life Imprisonment. Is There A Difference? [Re: pirate-blues]
    #28458252 - 09/04/23 10:54 AM (4 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
You can't work off emotional damages...especially if you murdered/raped/aggravated assaulted someone




Everyone can arbitrarily claim to be emotionally-damaged.

:archiebunker: Where should I start.



Quote:

pirate-blues said:
So rich people can just effectively buy their way out of crimes?




No, the consequence is to fix what is broken.


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Capital Punishment/Life Imprisonment. Is There A Difference? [Re: durian_2008] * 1
    #28458258 - 09/04/23 11:01 AM (4 months, 22 days ago)

Historically, 'manstealing' and adultery were capital offenses.

The injured would be restored of lost wages.

The penalty for rape of someone not betrothed was to marry. In more honorable times, they used to defend their 'virtue' to the death, or suicide themselves for the shame of it -- not get celeb status on talk shows and get awarded by misandrist, activist judges.


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Invisiblepirate-blues
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Re: Capital Punishment/Life Imprisonment. Is There A Difference? [Re: durian_2008]
    #28458309 - 09/04/23 11:45 AM (4 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

durian_2008 said:
Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
You can't work off emotional damages...especially if you murdered/raped/aggravated assaulted someone




Everyone can arbitrarily claim to be emotionally-damaged.

:archiebunker: Where should I start.



Quote:

pirate-blues said:
So rich people can just effectively buy their way out of crimes?




No, the consequence is to fix what is broken.






That's not a consequence if they pay an amount of money that they wipe their ass with, which is a significant amount for the rest of us though. That's a society of no consequences for the rich unless these 'consequences' are proportional enough to their net worth - like say 25% or 50% of it.


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Capital Punishment/Life Imprisonment. Is There A Difference? [Re: pirate-blues]
    #28458316 - 09/04/23 11:54 AM (4 months, 22 days ago)

In real life, rich people fall from grace, all the time.

They are not offering anything of lasting value, or their claim to status is tenuous. Look the gift horse in the mouth.


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Invisiblepirate-blues
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Re: Capital Punishment/Life Imprisonment. Is There A Difference? [Re: durian_2008] * 1
    #28458345 - 09/04/23 12:26 PM (4 months, 22 days ago)

I think you're being awfully naive about that, falling from grace(what do you mean by this exactly?) is not the same thing as losing all prosperity and freedom, which is the reality of a prison or jail sentence. The ultra rich do not live in the same world of consequences that the average person does, both within the penal and justice system, and in general.

And you're failing to address dangerous offenders, too. What about them? Is prison purely about retribution to you, because imo it should serve several other purposes, one is to sequester away people who are violent or dangerous to others or society at large, the other is to ideally rehabilitate those who can be - which is a huge failure on the part of the American justice system currently, as we can see with how difficult it is for felons to reintegrate into society after paying their debt to it.


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Capital Punishment/Life Imprisonment. Is There A Difference? [Re: pirate-blues]
    #28458352 - 09/04/23 12:33 PM (4 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

pirate-blues said:
falling from grace(what do you mean by this exactly?)




One perfectly awful asshole from my life was later found working register at Walmart and soon died of cancer.

Another lost a house and a family business.

A red sports car wound up rotten and eaten by rats.

Falling from grace is a saying, meaning that a well-off person arrives at a negative outcome.

Many of these people just appear rich, and if someone were to call in all of their bad debts and empty promises, there would be nothing to hold over your head.

Act in a dignified manner, even when you think no one is watching, and flex your rights, if you have to.


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InvisibleCitizen X
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Re: Capital Punishment/Life Imprisonment. Is There A Difference? [Re: pirate-blues]
    #28459203 - 09/05/23 07:39 AM (4 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

pirate-blues said:
I think you're being awfully naive about that, falling from grace(what do you mean by this exactly?) is not the same thing as losing all prosperity and freedom, which is the reality of a prison or jail sentence. The ultra rich do not live in the same world of consequences that the average person does, both within the penal and justice system, and in general.

And you're failing to address dangerous offenders, too. What about them? Is prison purely about retribution to you, because imo it should serve several other purposes, one is to sequester away people who are violent or dangerous to others or society at large, the other is to ideally rehabilitate those who can be - which is a huge failure on the part of the American justice system currently, as we can see with how difficult it is for felons to reintegrate into society after paying their debt to it.




Nailed it


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Capital Punishment/Life Imprisonment. Is There A Difference? [Re: Citizen X]
    #28459223 - 09/05/23 08:01 AM (4 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

pirate-blues said:
Is prison purely about retribution to you





Actually, I don't believe in the institution of prison, or even punishment.

Just restoring the victim.

Quote:

pirate-blues said:
And you're failing to address dangerous offenders, too. What about them?




(I am not failing, at all. I just haven't addressed that, yet.)

The victim's next of kin throws the first stone, pulls the lever, or presses the button.

Instead of showing proverbial sympathy for the devil.


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InvisibleCitizen X
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Re: Capital Punishment/Life Imprisonment. Is There A Difference? [Re: durian_2008] * 1
    #28463987 - 09/10/23 04:44 AM (4 months, 16 days ago)

I thought you made some good points too D


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Capital Punishment/Life Imprisonment. Is There A Difference? [Re: Citizen X]
    #28464118 - 09/10/23 09:05 AM (4 months, 16 days ago)

They usually want to make me that Bubba guy, who does hazings, or bod mod, or in the role of army nurse.

But, I think that real-life responses to pain, humiliation, and punishment are not as we have been taught in the movies.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Capital Punishment/Life Imprisonment. Is There A Difference? [Re: durian_2008]
    #28464172 - 09/10/23 10:14 AM (4 months, 16 days ago)




Suppose an offender could be genuinely Cured, would you guys accept them not being punished?

from ultraviolence to upstanding citizen?


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Capital Punishment/Life Imprisonment. Is There A Difference? [Re: Asante]
    #28464199 - 09/10/23 10:43 AM (4 months, 16 days ago)

Most B-types will associate the Bernie Goetz guy with the criminal element.


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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Capital Punishment/Life Imprisonment. Is There A Difference? [Re: durian_2008]
    #28465193 - 09/11/23 09:39 AM (4 months, 15 days ago)

Death is the ultimate penalty, and also the ultimate fate we all await.

The foundation for the power of the state is, ultimately, its ability to kill people. It's what keeps the borders secure and the banks solvent.

Here we are on another anniversary of 9/11. What made those terror attacks so scary and disruptive? The idea that people with no desire to live and an abundance of malice could so easily kill so many people.

The stability of our current geopolitical situation is dependent on the mutually assured destruction that nuclear weapons represent. It works because people don't want to die.

There are probably federal prisons in the US which represent a better standard of living than many people in the world experience. There are people who feel more safe and secure in jail than anywhere else. Simply locking someone up is a far cry from killing them, and the devil is in the details.

And I think that the death penalty really does represent a particularly cruel and unusual punishment. It's not the same as, say, getting lit up by the cops in a gunfight. It involves YEARS of sitting on death row while papers get shuffled around, running through as many appeals as possible, etc., until all that runs out and you get a nice official letter telling you exactly when they're going to strap you to a gurney and kill you. Probably, unless you get a last-minute pardon. That, to me, constitutes an intense amount of psychological torture, followed by the ultimate penalty.

Very, very different from life in prison. Or even any other way that one might end up getting killed by their government.


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Capital Punishment/Life Imprisonment. Is There A Difference? [Re: B Traven]
    #28465293 - 09/11/23 11:32 AM (4 months, 15 days ago)

Quote:

B Traven said:
There are people who feel more safe and secure in jail than anywhere else.





There were historically many versions of protective custody -- institutions, where such people could live out their lives, without having more responsibilities than they deserved or wanted. 

Quote:

Arnold Schwarzenegger said:
My relationship to power and authority is that I'm all for it. People need somebody to watch over them. Ninety-five percent of the people in the world need to be told what to do and how to behave.





What if they've already been enlightened as to their true nature. They are not victims and don't want to be rescued.


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Offlineashfiken
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Re: Capital Punishment/Life Imprisonment. Is There A Difference? [Re: durian_2008] * 1
    #28465343 - 09/11/23 12:07 PM (4 months, 15 days ago)

I'd rather die than serve life in prison.
Hell I'd rather die than serve more than 10 years.
To me capital punishment is a blessing  in disguise


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Capital Punishment/Life Imprisonment. Is There A Difference? [Re: ashfiken]
    #28465356 - 09/11/23 12:19 PM (4 months, 15 days ago)

Yeah, I think anything past 10 years, or, to a lesser extent, 5, is a pretty heavy thought.

It would still depend on the details for me. I've definitely met some people who did time in places that they described as not all that bad. I think I'd still pick 15 years in club fed with Bernie Madoff over death. Now, if I were going to be locked up in one of those Salvadoran quasi-military prisons where they're dumping gang members (and "gang members") right now, then yeah. Death might be merciful.


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Capital Punishment/Life Imprisonment. Is There A Difference? [Re: ashfiken]
    #28465366 - 09/11/23 12:31 PM (4 months, 15 days ago)

Peter the Hermit of Hollywood Mystery Man of the Mountains Lookout Road
https://dulltooldimbulb.blogspot.com/2011/03/peter-hermit-of-hollywood-mystery-man.html

This eccentric person said that he looks crazy but really isn't. The funny thing is, most normal people don't look crazy, but they really are.

Most people are happiest in their respective prisons...


Cartoon Network Shorties (Alligator Liberation)



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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Capital Punishment/Life Imprisonment. Is There A Difference? [Re: durian_2008]
    #28465388 - 09/11/23 12:45 PM (4 months, 15 days ago)

Quote:

The idea that people with no desire to live and an abundance of malice could so easily kill so many people.





They were stuck in their respective ruts or imprisoned in that proverbial, golden cage.

Quote:

What made those terror attacks so scary and disruptive?




Translated speeches on the radio were often secular and sounded like voluntaryism. Whether UBL was a deep fake or literally buried at sea, his character was a change agent.


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Offlineashfiken
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Re: Capital Punishment/Life Imprisonment. Is There A Difference? [Re: B Traven]
    #28465390 - 09/11/23 12:47 PM (4 months, 15 days ago)

Yeah for sure slight difference in circumstance can make a bit of a difference.
Fed time being relatively easy maybe would take the time as well.
But for me that's only a maybe..
I just can't stand the dead time.  The lack of life inside. The minimal amounts of freedom is so defeating, at least for me, I still think I might choose sweet end to all


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Capital Punishment/Life Imprisonment. Is There A Difference? [Re: ashfiken] * 2
    #28465518 - 09/11/23 03:28 PM (4 months, 14 days ago)

I believe anyone can become a better person but prison does not create better people. Life (25 years in my state) may as well be execution in many cases.

Our system is inhumane and that's all I really care about.


On that same line of thought there might as well be a universal basic income and universal healthcare because the government has proven that it doesn't give a shit about debt.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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