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InvisibleFerdinando
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meditation prep * 3
    #28465258 - 09/11/23 10:54 AM (4 months, 15 days ago)

i was just talking to redgreenvines
we thought we would share it here so you others can get benefit

i have started doing walking meditation before meditation
and bhante said we can sit to greater results afterwards from it
a good thing is to increase with a minute a day
I am at 5 minutes now

i also do excercise before medtation
and you might want to increase that too

a good thing is pushups before meditation
and so is squats and sit ups

it makes the meditation much more enjoyable

and good

and makes the time when you meditate much better

we are supposed to sit with some concentration at the nose
or in the belly

I also do the meditation mantra in mindfulness in plain english (the book (by bhante gunaratana)) which I also highly recommend

"I am about to tread the very same path that has been walked by the buddha and by his great and holy disciples. an indolent person cannot follow that path. may my energy prevail. may I succeed."

I think it one time before the meditation

and the mantra at the beginning of the session: may I be well happy and peaceful. may no harm come to me. me no difficulties come to me. may I always meet with spiritual success. may I also have patience courage understanding and determination to meet and overcome inevitable difficulties prblems and failures in life. may I always rise above them wit morality integrety forgiviness compassion, minfulness and wisdom.

the walking meditation is done by walking slowly 7 steps and thinking "lifting" and "treading" when lifting and treading. then turning around and standing still for 5 seconds and walking 7 more steps maybe with 5 seconds of standing still when arounding too I don't remember

happy trips and good luck

by the way I sit with music but I don't recommend it but I will say that the meditation is very awesome when I sit with music it is very enjoyable and a very good time intense extreme. I listen to pop christmas music and hip hop. it gives progress towards liberation even though the meditation is a little less good and effective with it and more is needed for nibbanna maybe. but it is my favorite activity.

I sit with the mantra "metta" "met" on the out breath and "ta" on the in breath. for 10 min. then 35 min. with "beginning" at the beginning, middle at the middle and "end" at the end of every inhalation and exhalation.

oh and do read all redgreenvines' posts.
maybe share it with your friends.
he can give huge help.

thanks enjoy

work as much as possible


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with our love with our love we could save the world


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28465321 - 09/11/23 11:53 AM (4 months, 15 days ago)

You actually wrote (or spoke) in private to RGVs through PM's or other medium!? :eek: Praise yourself cuz you are a very lucky man! :heart:


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando] * 1
    #28465438 - 09/11/23 01:45 PM (4 months, 15 days ago)

I do warmup exercises early in the morning. Mostly core strength and stretching.

It's good to have a daily exercise routine. Only takes 15 minutes unless one wants it to be more.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando] * 1
    #28465498 - 09/11/23 03:10 PM (4 months, 14 days ago)

Thanks Ferdinando,
Yes, Pinky, Ferdie and I do go way way way back with private messages, but some of the dialog could just as well be here on the forum, there really isn't anything we get into these days that is really private. I am just a friend, not a teacher.

Also others here have good ideas as well.

Yesterday today and tomorrow I am and have been moving from one condo to a different apartment, and did not have time for exercise or sitting. Usually it is something I do at least 28 days per month. I am not including lying down meditation which I also tend to do when I wake up an hour or so too early or while I am going to sleep.

I usually do 10 mins on the bike at from 60 watts - 90 watts depending on stamina, then some squats pushups and crunches and stretches and then 40 mins sitting, just "beginning middle end" as Ferdinando explained in his post.

I never feel like exercising, but I force myself otherwise my sedentary life makes my legs and back stiff.

I don't listen to music, but I do hear traffic and my wife doing things, which helps keep me from drifting, and helps keep me attending to changes many times per second and generally aware of shifting mental contents. For me, observing mental contents arising and passing is the idea, and the breath, and "beginning middle end" to me are steady mental contents which I do not differentiate with street noise or other racket in the world. It's all mental content which I try to observe with detachment.

@ Ferdinando, I think you walk your own path, but the Buddha's wisdom is something you care about and in that way it is part of your path. Realistically we only can walk, eat, sleep, sit, think, our own path. The path is the mental content that keeps on happening, part from sensations, and the rest from perceptions or memory reflexes.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: meditation prep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28465889 - 09/11/23 09:37 PM (4 months, 14 days ago)

Exercise puts stress on the body but nature tends to give us moments and periods of physical stress anyway. Our natural inclination is to conserve energy and use when needed.

This can overcome the instant gratification that is inherent in exercise, which is not insubstantial. There needs to be something to sweeten the pot.

Sometimes it's a game or activity, which also stimulates competitive and cooperative mindsets. Sometimes it's wanting to be faster or stronger, or look better, or to improve cognitive health and acuity, or emotional health, or improve sleep, or to improve mood, or to improve lifespan and quality of lifespan, or to have better energy levels.

Exercise will do all those things to some degree!

Walking, jogging, sprinting, all very important and cover aerobic and anaerobic benefits. It can all be fit in 20 minutes/1 mile. A moderate goal is to work to a mile in 15 minutes for a majority of the benefits. Core exercise and stretching, another 15-20 minutes daily. Half an hour a day to get a majority of the benefits of exercise. Throw in 20 minutes twice a week of strength training if desirable.

That comes out as 30-45 minutes a day. The benefits are so great that it's foolish for anyone at any age to not exercise.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: meditation prep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28466100 - 09/12/23 05:30 AM (4 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I am just a friend, not a teacher.



To me you are a mentor. :heart:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28466243 - 09/12/23 09:35 AM (4 months, 14 days ago)

some things seem to work out some ways, even while the effort is simpler.
I am just being friendly and trying not to be a teacher.


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: meditation prep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28466293 - 09/12/23 09:58 AM (4 months, 14 days ago)

The crew: Dip, OC, LE, Ice and RGV's AND Pinky!


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28466296 - 09/12/23 10:02 AM (4 months, 14 days ago)

:excited:


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28466541 - 09/12/23 02:06 PM (4 months, 14 days ago)

:lol:


--------------------
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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: meditation prep [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28466911 - 09/12/23 07:52 PM (4 months, 13 days ago)

It's easy to start as a Buddha but extremely hard to finish as one!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meditation prep [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28466930 - 09/12/23 08:10 PM (4 months, 13 days ago)

Why do you say that?
what is a Buddha maybe is a better question.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: meditation prep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28466961 - 09/12/23 08:27 PM (4 months, 13 days ago)

Being excellent for a moment is probable..

Being excellent in every moment?

Impossible.!?


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: meditation prep [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28466965 - 09/12/23 08:33 PM (4 months, 13 days ago)

One FULL clear line! Starting from whenever..

Ending in eternity!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meditation prep [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28466988 - 09/12/23 09:05 PM (4 months, 13 days ago)

I think Bill and Ted were excellent.
kinda dumb too, but smart is overrated.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: meditation prep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28467069 - 09/12/23 10:56 PM (4 months, 13 days ago)

Summer is over rated or is it?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meditation prep [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28467191 - 09/13/23 05:34 AM (4 months, 13 days ago)

Mostly over, but this year X-rated


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meditation prep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28467334 - 09/13/23 08:53 AM (4 months, 13 days ago)

i got a little brighter and more there mind just now during meditation but I'm not sure it's permanent


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28467336 - 09/13/23 08:57 AM (4 months, 13 days ago)

hehe it just happened again my mind keeps becoming brighter and more present from meditation
till im 100 % mindful and without faults i suppose
but that is just a point
enlightenment
i think it is largely based on how much we have meditated


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28467731 - 09/13/23 03:19 PM (4 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Ferdinando said:
i got a little brighter and more there mind just now during meditation but I'm not sure it's permanent



you are right
enlightenment is not a permanent state, it is a way of finding your way, of beginning again, practicing, and enjoying the clarity of that.
the way is personal and always changing.
never permanent,
a teaching of permanent enlightenment is dishonest


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: meditation prep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28467851 - 09/13/23 05:10 PM (4 months, 12 days ago)

From a perspective of multitasking and efficiency...

We only have so much time here on this earth, so it is good to multitask.

That said I spend time in meditation and prayer while I am walking in the evenings. I find that the exercise and solitude helps put me in a better state in which I can both introspect and listen for the still small voice of heaven's wisdom.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Moses_Davidson] * 1
    #28467928 - 09/13/23 06:27 PM (4 months, 12 days ago)

meditation is multitasking as well,
there is so much going on including the work of maintaining awareness on the breath, and near effortless resuming when distracted, and being detached from judgement, and staying calm. etc.



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OnlineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: meditation prep [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28469833 - 09/15/23 09:50 AM (4 months, 11 days ago)

For me, meditation involves one activity - observation

Anything beyond that is superfluous.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meditation prep [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28470043 - 09/15/23 01:18 PM (4 months, 11 days ago)

without relaxation, and re-commencement, observation becomes distraction and restlessness.
with practice mental contents are undefended and observable in real time.
the relaxed base counters reflex hiding etc.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meditation prep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28470898 - 09/16/23 09:36 AM (4 months, 10 days ago)

how does one improve oneself?
how does one improve one's behaviour?

I would rather improve my action than me

if one improves oneself does one improve one's behaviour?
because consciousness is defined by behaviour

it is possible to do 120.000 hours of meditation in 40 years by meditating 5 hours a day

bhante said seasoned meditators meditate 3 or 4 hours a day
that way it takes 60 years or so

just think what would happen if one did that
it would be really good for everyone
like a drawing

bhante said as the meditation deepens it also becomes constant
so one could do it that way too
but it is not as good as seated meditation

funny how it can be felt what one's behaviour becomes
if one does this or that

we desperately need the behaviour to become better

and our action to become less silly
and more serious
and optimize it over the years
it is really important to make a big progress in a year
less drugs or violence
and getting things done more
for a big progress every year I recommend reading redgreenvines' posts


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with our love with our love we could save the world


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28471885 - 09/17/23 04:59 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

read a page in this every day

https://www.holybooks.com/buddhist-suttas-a-z-the-megapack/

sometimes it doesn't work maybe but at some point you are going to have to get to it

i try to draw a drawing more than I used to every day

and lift weights

happy sunday!

yay!


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with our love with our love we could save the world


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28471907 - 09/17/23 05:37 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

I had typed a detailed response yesterday, but got distracted towards the end of my typing session, and accidentally closed the page before making it stick.

I had put a lot of effort into mentioning the importance of the middle way, which is in tune with the moment and not so much about judgements, i.e neither better or worse, improving or backsliding, but instead oriented towards clarity and nature.

bear in mind your middle way and your daily experience is yours, your garden is your field of custody, what you take care of, your style and expression.

In meditation follow the breath gently and note all the fleeting changes and particulate mind moments while relaxing. It is an exercise in the middle way, neither too tense or too sloppy.

this is less detailed than yesterday's comment, but maybe useful.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meditation prep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28472045 - 09/17/23 08:20 AM (4 months, 9 days ago)

yes it is and cultivating good habits is good too
thanks
thanks a bunch


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28474574 - 09/19/23 05:21 AM (4 months, 7 days ago)

bhante said that the benefits pile up over the years
about meditation

i found that the benefits of the change of the self pile up over the years

like that you can increase getting things done time from the meditation

so not just that you brush your teeth from the meditation but even if you stopped meditating that it would go in the right direction

so that there is benefit from the change of self instead of just from further meditation and the meditation

also you have to be able to feel that it goes in the right direction with you with the head space of earlier time with your friends

for example my best friend was e and i want to do ok from the view of our head space and that it goes in the right direction with my life always
maybe also seen from our values
former values
getting things done being innocent etc.


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with our love with our love we could save the world


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28474592 - 09/19/23 05:54 AM (4 months, 7 days ago)

I think you are right, especially as when a person is really messed up, then they cannot get anything done, and meditation helps resolve that.


I usually just talk about doing it, but it is true that after doing it for a few years, one's behavior and ability to do things improves.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meditation prep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28474881 - 09/19/23 11:24 AM (4 months, 7 days ago)

cool
i had a session after 7 years that seemed to benefit me immensely
like that i became much better at managing
i think it keeps having that effect
somewhat in levels maybe

thanks for being honest and taking me seriously

i myself am becoming honest i highly recommend it

actually from the meditation I have done the way my self changes is better
i am more able to make progress
become more honest etc.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28474905 - 09/19/23 11:33 AM (4 months, 7 days ago)

meditation is beneficial for everything maybe
did a session today that seemed that way
after 9 years
i think it takes a long time

the garden (the routine) has to be theurapeutic and something you can stand and endure, something you don't fall as much apart from

the more therapeutic the better maybe

that would be a good goal and aim maybe


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando] * 1
    #28474940 - 09/19/23 12:01 PM (4 months, 7 days ago)

you have to find your own way and meaning and improvement


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28475561 - 09/19/23 07:30 PM (4 months, 6 days ago)

I meditate everyday..

Laying down 40mins

Whenever I think about it during the day.

Good to build attention/focus.

Carry it with you and be honest about how deep your meditation goes.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meditation prep [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28475857 - 09/20/23 03:24 AM (4 months, 6 days ago)

there are lots of buddhist books free online
we have to come closer to the noble eightfold path

here are some good books

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wDAnqsfri8nN-MIbVRhcAnve6JgecHFa/view
https://www.bps.lk/olib/bp/bp201s_Nyanatiloka_life-Of-The-Buddha.pdf


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with our love with our love we could save the world


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28477396 - 09/21/23 07:18 AM (4 months, 5 days ago)

what do you think about dalai lama teachings?
i find his books to be almost hugely beneficial

i find that he sais some of what one needs to hear the most

i think they are extremely good in the initial stages

but are they also very good for advanced practitioners and buddhist scholars and people that have come extremely times 10 or 100 far and old people?

what should happen at the very advanced stages what should one study and do?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28477436 - 09/21/23 08:33 AM (4 months, 5 days ago)

Mostly quiet admirable although don't repeat the tongue sucking jokes in public  😅


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meditation prep [Re: redgreenvines] * 3
    #28489516 - 10/01/23 11:32 PM (3 months, 25 days ago)

advice:

think when you wake up tell yourself in a very clear and direct way that today wether i am sitting down having a meal or even lying down to rest that i will make something happen all day

and today i will use the day for doing wholesome deeds and not doing unwholesome deeds

and think impermanence three times a day

and think about death three times a day

also pray that you will do of as relatively high a quality as possible all day and same for all there will be that day

and maybe that it will all be of as relatively high a quality as possible all day

and that you will have as positive qualities as possible all day day and same for all there will be that day

and as little negative qualities as possible


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with our love with our love we could save the world


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28489573 - 10/02/23 03:19 AM (3 months, 25 days ago)

Meditation, not to feed, but to heed the hungering pangs of a ferocious beast!


--------------------
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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meditation prep [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28490491 - 10/02/23 11:19 PM (3 months, 24 days ago)

the buddha's teaching guides :smile:


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28490511 - 10/03/23 12:27 AM (3 months, 24 days ago)

What is wrong with this?

I meditate whenever I think about it.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meditation prep [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28490586 - 10/03/23 04:59 AM (3 months, 24 days ago)

nothing,
being aware of mental contents as mental contents frees you from entanglements and defensiveness.

we used to imagine that "this is delusion, or illusion"
now we see it as it is, "this too is mental contents - specific brain activity - some memory, and some sensation - combined as thoughts, feelings, dreams..."


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meditation prep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28494970 - 10/06/23 10:33 PM (3 months, 20 days ago)

i like to benefit all fields there will be in my existence by meditating 5 minutes

that's my favorite thing

it is a very nice thing

think when you wake up the whole today I will let myself be fully saturated with love


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world


Edited by Ferdinando (10/06/23 10:37 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28495143 - 10/07/23 05:45 AM (3 months, 20 days ago)

this might help to keep your presence in the moment more pervasive


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Re: meditation prep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28495262 - 10/07/23 09:27 AM (3 months, 20 days ago)

yes my teacher is aware that sometimes things just don't happen much in our existence so he makes something happen and is in favor of that something happens


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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28496047 - 10/08/23 12:01 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

please do read a page in mindfulness in plain english every day

i do

it's like speed but without the side effects

it's almost as good as speed mainlined

it is one of the very very best things


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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28496181 - 10/08/23 05:29 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

maybe 2 pages morning midday and evening
also i have started to read northerners posts
even if the reading doesn't seem to benefit it will. you can tell by your feeling afterwards
it has a slight effect of making the mind's journey to be more happy and joyful and at ease etc.


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Edited by Ferdinando (10/08/23 05:35 AM)


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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando] * 1
    #28496239 - 10/08/23 08:14 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

quality not quantity please.
the middle way applies to all forms of consumption including dharma.


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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28497155 - 10/08/23 10:25 PM (3 months, 18 days ago)

thank you red

i recommend reading a carrot a day. my teacher said it is very good to eat. it makes you a better person and have it better and do better. i also eat sardines they are good too.


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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28497165 - 10/08/23 10:44 PM (3 months, 18 days ago)

in buddhism we talk about confusion the negative emotions and suffering
we are to reduce it
and eliminate it
we can do that to some extent by meditating
the feeling tells something about it
like you can go to where it feels like you reduce it the most and sit 5 min. where you feel you reduce it


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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28501027 - 10/11/23 11:16 PM (3 months, 15 days ago)

i just wanted to write some advice here

it is about what is going on

to increase the quality of that you must do certain things

meditate a lot

do a daily drawing

don't abandon

study dharma


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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28501165 - 10/12/23 04:30 AM (3 months, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Ferdinando said:
i just wanted to write some advice here

it is about what is going on

to increase the quality of that you must do certain things

meditate a lot

do a daily drawing

don't abandon

study dharma



I have a question Ferdinando: Do you believe in a daily dosing schedule?

For any drugs that one might want to use or have concern for?


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Re: meditation prep [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28501230 - 10/12/23 06:46 AM (3 months, 15 days ago)

obviously he believes it, he is on psych meds daily, this is not imaginary.

the meditative approach helps deal with prescription meds as well as non-prescription substance use.


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Re: meditation prep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28501365 - 10/12/23 09:00 AM (3 months, 15 days ago)

I don't know I think meds are good
good for action
otherwise I am not much for schedule
but shrooms and lsd are very good
good tripping happy days


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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28501540 - 10/12/23 11:35 AM (3 months, 15 days ago)

meditation is cool, it can go awry sometimes if taken too seriously in a not so great kinda way, but for the most part? it's very chill. :cool::thumbup:

i like best when it just happens simply bc things lead to it naturally and you just find yourself watching carefully the things in and around oneself at any given time and suck in the moment as it sucks you in, too. :snowman:

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Re: meditation prep [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28501713 - 10/12/23 02:23 PM (3 months, 15 days ago)

I have not found it naturally, but it is not unnatural either.

for me there is always at least some process to establish a calm seat, and then to stay present at the seat with the breath. basically restarting the process during the session.

this minimal approach makes it very easy to notice how much we actually notice and react to or not, and how much we miss as well.

I have to say, that the first 20 minutes is a bit more work than the next 20 minutes, and the last minute often I would prefer just continue - nothing lasts forever - and my legs need a break.

It can also be described as stirring the pot of our psychological makeup: often long forgotten memories surface, and we deal with them in a detached middle way.


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Re: meditation prep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28502133 - 10/12/23 06:36 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

really?

never woke up like so, or, while going about your day to day life simply fell into the groove, spontaneously found that to be what was going on without first planning it out like so, so to speak?

anywho, no biggie either way.

i opt for the minimal too, at least when it comes to formal sittings, although, some spice here and there every now and again can be pretty satisfying - even w/ the marks of existence being what they are and all that jazz.


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Re: meditation prep [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28502186 - 10/12/23 07:09 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

I don't get the reference to waking up,
I was talking about sitting meditation not sleeping.

did I put in typos?


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Re: meditation prep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28502206 - 10/12/23 07:15 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

No, you didn't.  What I meant was that -

Sometimes, when I wake after having slept all night, i'll find that it's just what's already happening somehow.  It's somewhat different than most of the usual wake ups from sleep that happen, idk what causes it.

I was wondering if you'd experienced anything like that, and if so, knew how or why something like that occurs is all.


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Re: meditation prep [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28502363 - 10/12/23 08:20 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

do you mean waking up and feeling amazing like you are in the middle of all possibilities.


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Re: meditation prep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28502442 - 10/12/23 08:59 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Hmmm, a bit more like when perceptual frame stacking is taking place like after sitting for a while without being perturbed by it and simply watching the mind do its thing wrt the senses sensing whatever they sense in the moment.  There's a serene calmness, amazingly undetached yet lucid awareness of the flux of things, on top of a short lived psychedelic-like quality to it as if having awoken from sleep with certain faculties of mind just happening to  have aligned in such a way so as to up the ante of what's normally perceptible upon waking up, and, uncannily balanced; as if, upon noticing  - yet - while not feeling compelled to clamor for more - since - it might be exciting at first waking up accompanied by significant rapture, in addition to watching the balancing act of inner & outer processes unfolding in a way that the causal links stack clearly, sometimes, to the point of a web of perceptions holding for a time, simultaneously, as some cease and new one's come into play ~ and in as close to real time as seemingly can be.

Near if not with the markings of an already established effort bringing about jhanic qualities to experience, yet, without having put forth the effort that normally i would associate that with. 

Like the factors for enlightenment are already at play and maybe something i was unaware of happening earlier played into things happening like so upon waking up.

It's a wonderful experience, albeit with the drawbacks of any other.

I suppose some of my concerns with it is that, while it does seem uncontrived, natural, involuntary, and close to - if not completely random - sometimes occurring many times in a times a week, the duration can last as short as 15 seconds.  While, at others times, it may go on for 15 or so minutes at a time before things change on their own, perhaps I either need to get ready for the day, or I begin to clamor for it - something like that, and so it slips away, so to speak. 

Then again, there have been long bouts where it hasn't occurred like i'm describing for months at a time.  It most definitely is altered consciousness, to a varying degree, but it's so refreshing while occurring, seens as natural as breathing itself, and uncalled for that I wanted to know if anyone could relate or possibly help to elucidate what circumstances might be at play in how that might be happening.  Imagine, waking up in what you'd might attribute to having sat while one's mental faculties worked together harmoniously wrt meditative awareness of inner & outer phenomenon as non-dual and co-occurring.

I can't find anything in the literature about it, and i'd really like to know more about that if I could.


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Edited by The Blind Ass (10/12/23 09:08 PM)


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Re: meditation prep [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28502490 - 10/12/23 09:39 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

What do you guys think of the importance of postures, madras etc?

I think its a perfect science.. you can tell where the energy is flowing..

You can tell when energy is locked.


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Re: meditation prep [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28502568 - 10/12/23 10:36 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

taking a particular posture generally seems for bodily stability, ime.  Some of the ideas surrounding that being it may be more conducive -or- basically, help certain wholesome qualities or desirable factors wrt meditation (depends on what it is one practices, I presume) to come about more naturally, and, to lessen certain other more hindering factors wrt one's practice from potentially overpowering the others so as to unbalance oneself, if that makes sense?  Comfort is important, obviously.  Said balance in question is in general, as in, wrt body:mind - as a whole, if not, what else?

Wrt whatever meditative practice someone uses for the cultivation of morality, concentration, and wisdom - if for that -  I used to sit half lotus for much, much too long a duration for periods of time (in part b/c it often would take me longer time to settle into even the most simple of practices) and - with not enough breaks at the appropriate times, to allow my legs & what not to return to normal before getting back to it in the same posture.

Unfortunately, there were a few years where I'd spend most a summer  and or winter going on like so starting from midnight onwards until the sun fully rose before taking a break to rest/sleep before getting on with my day.  Intensive practice isn't necessarily always a good thing, longer isn't always better - neither is the opposite always true.  Takes experimenting, a discerning mind, clearheadness, and having a trusted companion or teacher might help spare one from practicing something specific incorrectly, etc -  Basically, anyone trustworthy and legit -as in- not just book-hip to it, but practices themselves, too.  Someone, almost anyone who's gone through the trials and errors of many phases might can help share in a way so that doing any particular practice goes about in that it helps one not have to waste so much time, effort, and hardships.  It likely would've saved me a lot of trouble, oy.
Then again, that's part of the wisdom aspect, over-emphasizing the concentrative aspect of it so as to overshadow morality & wisdom, kinda defeats the point of the whole balance thing mentioned earlier, no? Seems like it to me at least imho&e. 

But, also, to each their own - although sometimes shared, too, right?  We live, experience, and, hopefully learn something from said experience.  Ideally, anyways.  :lol:


Nowadays, the aforementioned intensives did a number on my knees, ankles, and hips.  Now, they've all some bothersome pains about them whenever most of the time, and, when I attempt to go any long stretches of time, as in - more than 10/20 minutes a sit without taking a break and stretching and switching into kinhin basically, just walking around but continuing with the same effort of concentration wrt involuntary/natural awareness, body, mind, breathing remains as the anchor, so to speak - later to move onto a sensation in the body and resonating with it in a manner that amplifies the pleasantness of it, or, indifference, or pain - depending on the nature of the practice at the time, etc, etc.  Basically, if you read the tripitakas anapanasati suttas like you would the PF TeK, and follow it like so, that's the gist of it, wrt establishing a solid foundation - but - its not like that remains, so it has to be continued in some form or another, formal or informal - sitting, or curled up in a ball or whatever...for it to remain as beneficial. 

From what I can tell, it really seems like a keep on utilizing it or lose it kind of a thing, at least, to a large extent, basically.  Hence, the emphasis many of us might hear, read, and or discover for ourselves placed upon conditioning ourselves to a committed times fo the day for formal practice - daily! 
Kind of like being sober a day at a time, but it's a moment to moment thing taking place within an unending open and ever-changing present moment. (afaik, anyways)

So, i've had to adapt, more and more as time goes on - and strangely or un-strangely enough - running works quite well (not sprinting the whole time, but not walking/jogging only either), so does simply sitting in a chair, or other postures/positions, even lying does, too - although sloth & torpor are more prevalent in some positions more than others it would seem; but, that can be worked with if aware of oneself before beginning whilst simply about doing whatever in the day/moment as leading into one's formal sessions of a basic, simple, and or even more involved meditative practice(s), too. 

Awareness of the body comes intuitively after some time spent continually bringing the mind back to it, training it like so.
That, which then is reflected in my body posture - which in itself usually reflects  mind’s *state (*zones: sets of states -ie- fluxing states, rather than a single static state really - or something along those lines)


One thing i've both read of and heard of from time to time that i'll often resonate with to some degree, is that - to assume a certain posture as per whatever's appropriate for one's practice - is indicative of, or, like an expression of correct practice itself, and, of a meditatively oriented mind, albeit that was geared towards zazen, perhaps shikantaza specifically, iirc - basically, just sitting + anapanasati, or, awareness of the breath practice ~ as a thing in its own right ~ and, as a means to establishing a foundation wrt mindfulness in general, ie. conditioning - that's one of the ways in which how I might interpret it anyways.  Alrighty, sloppy writing is indicative of it being time for bed, off to sit then sit.  G'nit fellas.

Not one, not two - Straight ahead lies the way!
...or so some of those cookey old stuffy monks might sometimes say. :lol:


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Edited by The Blind Ass (10/12/23 10:54 PM)


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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28502601 - 10/12/23 11:03 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

I’m not a professional at this.
But I’ve hurt my back. I can’t really sit on the ground for extended periods of time.
This is a really easy method of meditation that I use.
It’s really accessible and easy for anyone to do.
The principles are still the same.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28448570#28448570


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Re: meditation prep [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28502770 - 10/13/23 04:14 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

I sat, now I'll post, then I'm off to bed.  :stars:

I like to think I'm an absolute beginner always beginning anew, and there's some influence from some impactful people that've helped me to view mediation like so - so - prep?  Idk...I just don't.  How?
If fresh, previous exp kicks in but also like a baby or something, idk, sure there are certain factors and conditions that are more conductive than others, but honestly, even that isn't entirely true.  Meditation just is of whatever's going on wrt body:mind:environment, that is - as I understand it.  There is a sort of balancing act to be kept up with while doing so in formal seshies, so to speak, but yeah...regardless... how can anything not be included? :lol:

I've read a decent bit on a number of things that can be related to the subject, done bits of exploring in a few meditative traditions, sat a shit load, experimented with many a style of contemplative/meditative practices, eaten many a psychedelics, and luckily been blessed with some truly ineffable moments of deeply good and seemingly unrelenting goodies from it that I can always touch upon whenever, wherever- just so long as i've the wherewithal about me to do so.  Many i've met have in some way or another, but not all, at least maybe not yet? Who knows...

For some reason I recalled near the end of tonight's sit that I began in the first place - in terms of seeking any formal instruction - in wanting to see if psychedelia and certain styles of meditation were comparable, which came from a simple childhood fascination loaded with awe & wonder for life and especially all things psychedelic, before understanding even what that term entailed, mostly regarding experiences dreaming and visions and whatnot as a child.  I wanted, almost needed to know - if there were a shared biological basis to *exo & endo* chemically induced *spiritual/mystical/psychedelic/dream/religious/etc* experiences.

  And, maybe 8 years after perusing the answer and upon finally being able to confirm first hand that they in fact are chemically related in some ways - especially in terms of the experientially aspect of any of those mentioned earlier - albeit with differences - but similar enough - like that of our nightly dreams to a weekend psychedelic sesh. 

That helped me immensely to dispel much of vert burdensome mess of confusion I'd carried about around regarding certain questions I'd had for so long pertaining to so many things about the nature of phenomenon, experience, and perception. 

The little tiny snippets of unparalleled insight gleaned from either and or both manners of reaching the same or similar vantage points - can and are much the same in some respects. 
Each has the potential to be Mind Manifesting to varying extents, so why wouldn't the aforementioned be the case?

Although, that may be how I'm geared towards things in general and have little to do with those things themselves, idk?  Not much that wasn't already in some way available to me previously has been revealed by either, just expounded upon in various ways wrt both practice and psychs - together - even better, ihmoe.  Feeling more deeply and grokking in ways I couldn't imagine beforehand, etc.

At first, I only partook of meditative practice at all b/c I stumbled upon the sphere of infinite consciousness through contemplation and star gazing at night into space and pondering what this thing we called a self is - wondering where all things come from, etc, etc, and the sphere of infinite space cropped up shortly after than other (some months later), in combo - the two eventually led to an unsolicited evening of an acute & deeply felt sense of unity with everything in nature and beyond as within or part of the always already ever present moment's wholeness inclusive of all things. 

Afterwards I was like a madman attempting to understand what had happened - as it went against all mainstream things I was brought up with and that were around me, I talked with whomever would lend an ear and could maybe provide some insight, but alas...seemed to be one of those 'flights of the alone into the alone' - sort of things. 

I followed up by going through libraries reading significant portions on the sciences on a very fundamental level, philosophy, and religion - looking for clues, hints, anything I could until I stumbled upon some 'buddhist-like' books (books talking about people talking about their studies into buddhism?, but, not: *how to do x, y, and z so that that the whole enchilada would then fall upon my plate* which is what I thought I wanted at the time, that is, to understand everything, and hopefully learn to evoke the same experiences from earlier, and man...was I in for some hard lessons, lmao).  That alone got me hooked  - and guess what?

It's not like I found out anything entirely new, nor I didn't need to figure it all out, or much of anything.  People have been at it in one form or the other since we could think and ponder anything in any semi-significant way, relatively speaking.

I don't know everything, I can't ever know everything - thus, I became more aware of this natural sort of ignorance which is always with, and by extension presume most if not all sentient beings do too; also, accompanying said ignorance are the lovely twin teachers of delusion & illusion, also seemingly ubiquitous throughout humanity and anyone/anything privy to the phenomenon deemed Mind.

The senses are fallible, the mind is tricksy, experience is often sketchy, and everything of compounded form is always breaking down and transforming into other things...all the time. 

The best I think to be done with that knowledge is to be honest about what it means for oneself & others - in a deep way, and, with respect to what we really don't know and what we think we know but don't really actually know at all, plus the inklings of what we sort of kinda know in some ways, too.

If we can come to some chilled out headspace, much like space itself, and relax in general, and then examine life in so far as we can be aware of it via the senses and the intellect as that which is both in and all around us as phenomenon, and, as the expression of primordial energy - then maybe - some insight does get through to us.

If with that we can map out little segments of what's happening in the moment, as per our most honest understanding of things although that will also change - although, things change at different rates & intervals of time... so...just maybe someone else can come along at the right time and be helped by it, or we can be helped by them - and - in some way - build upon what we share with one another while incorporating the more newly changed happenings to account for their differences and so on and so forth; then, we've perhaps got something to work with that's of benefit to ourselves and anyone else, potentially. 

If meditation isn't geared towards the good wrt morality & wisdom - so that it can aid us in the pursuit of knowledge, and, more importantly maybe - how to appropriately apply said knowledges skillfully so as to lessen the unavoidable harm that comes of anything being in the world of shared things - then there we go, that's some good shit, that is...at least, if you ask me.

to appreciative, or love, and know - that all sentient beings on some level despite harming some other beings sometimes, I just want to say - I believe they're primordially pure from the very get go, regardless - until the very end even. 

I know that's probably not the most popular opinion, but it's just how I'm feeling.  Sitting, especially in nature - only makes it worse.  :lol:

So, that's all to say - thank you to all you sore bummed cushion mushers with achy legs, and, to those doing likewise, even off of the cushion, too.  Carrying that sort of deep-wide-open Mind wherever, whenever, & however - that's fucking cool.  :cool::thumbup:


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Re: meditation prep [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #28502798 - 10/13/23 05:31 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Hmmm, a bit more like when perceptual frame stacking is taking place like after sitting for a while without being perturbed by it and simply watching the mind do its thing wrt the senses sensing whatever they sense in the moment.  There's a serene calmness, amazingly undetached yet lucid awareness of the flux of things, on top of a short lived psychedelic-like quality to it as if having awoken from sleep with certain faculties of mind just happening to  have aligned in such a way so as to up the ante of what's normally perceptible upon waking up, and, uncannily balanced; as if, upon noticing  - yet - while not feeling compelled to clamor for more - since - it might be exciting at first waking up accompanied by significant rapture, in addition to watching the balancing act of inner & outer processes unfolding in a way that the causal links stack clearly, sometimes, to the point of a web of perceptions holding for a time, simultaneously, as some cease and new one's come into play ~ and in as close to real time as seemingly can be.

Near if not with the markings of an already established effort bringing about jhanic qualities to experience, yet, without having put forth the effort that normally i would associate that with. 

Like the factors for enlightenment are already at play and maybe something i was unaware of happening earlier played into things happening like so upon waking up.

It's a wonderful experience, albeit with the drawbacks of any other.

I suppose some of my concerns with it is that, while it does seem uncontrived, natural, involuntary, and close to - if not completely random - sometimes occurring many times in a times a week, the duration can last as short as 15 seconds.  While, at others times, it may go on for 15 or so minutes at a time before things change on their own, perhaps I either need to get ready for the day, or I begin to clamor for it - something like that, and so it slips away, so to speak. 

Then again, there have been long bouts where it hasn't occurred like i'm describing for months at a time.  It most definitely is altered consciousness, to a varying degree, but it's so refreshing while occurring, seens as natural as breathing itself, and uncalled for that I wanted to know if anyone could relate or possibly help to elucidate what circumstances might be at play in how that might be happening.  Imagine, waking up in what you'd might attribute to having sat while one's mental faculties worked together harmoniously wrt meditative awareness of inner & outer phenomenon as non-dual and co-occurring.

I can't find anything in the literature about it, and i'd really like to know more about that if I could.



right,
ok, I get it and I get it too as in I am familiar with that personally.
I think it is an extension of the practice process.
I will try to describe it:

1. Mental contents is the aggregate of all current sensation (that gets through the sensory change filters of the high speed 6-layer columnar cortex - which evolved to help us detect safety zone incursion or the presence of prey and and predators) and all current perceptive reflexes (which contain familiarity responses. Mental contents changes at ~6-10 frames per second.

2. Recent mental contents (normally 5-7 minutes worth of contents (smeared together) but shorter when frame stacking) is traditionally referred to as short term memory, and this larger body of (no longer active) neurons is not organized in frames, it is just the neurons themselves that were activated in frames of the recent experience.

Anyway, recently activated cortical neurons can be reactivated with fewer minisynapses (memory spine reactivations- from branched axons of stimulated pyramidal neurons) [my app reactivated cortical neurons upon signals at 8 spines minimum, but this number can be adjusted, as can the other variables if you work the app - more spines required provides less recognition or perceptive reflex and fewer spines can easily reflex too readily giving errors or misapprehensions]

Anyway, this is important, recent mental content (neurons) can be reactivated more easily than (the neurons of) memories that have not been recently activated.

3. So you could say active mental contents are more easily reactivated, and by putting things into Short term memory (STM) just by thinking or seeing etc. you are potentiating these mental contents to be reactivated. i.e. recent activation is a form of recycling.

So while following the breath, breathing sensations and ideation flow into STM, and become more easily re-attended, initially. This fights against the columnar suppression of sensory signals that do not change to some degree, but it also means that alternate sensory feeds about the breath become engaged, and the mind begins to follow the breath in different ways to stay in the moment.

4. This is not exactly standing wave repetition, but once it is engaged, it tends to carry itself forward (on the wings of STM), unless the mind is distracted by alarming intrusions, pains, or weariness.

5. Some oscillations or sensory activation sequences can be perceived as energy or energy pathways, or more precisely sensation trajectory patterns. (and bear in mind that trajectory following is at least 500 millions of years old in the brains (or neural knots) of moving creatures).

6. Mudras and asanas recycle physical sensation as well as (to a lesser extent) alter blood circulation, muscle activations, fascia movements etc. YOu can  use mudras and asanas to help maintain concentrative awareness, but also it can detract from simple breath awareness.

7. Jhana sets in as soon as recycling takes over more than the work to begin following the breath. You may notice that it has a cadence or beat, not always the same, or convergent towards 6-10hz; but this is not recycle-able, only the noticing of it is recycled which is empty. Often this may be enhanced with eureka style understandings of issues that ramify through many contexts.

8. frame stacking follows jhana chemically (dopamine most likely) and that extends the duration of each mental content activation (more thalamo-cortical feedback cycles than the usual 3 for ordinary waking consciousness), but this effect also exhausts neurons reducing the 5 minute window of recycling awareness to a shorter period of time. In this way, very strong meditators can push through to very short STM windows that contain only the breath follow essentials and no trace of self other than that. This kind of ego loss is satori, not enlightenment but it is a wonderful thing that sometimes happens to various degrees.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meditation prep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28502803 - 10/13/23 05:40 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Naturally imparting socially beneficial mental content is a very positive way to go, and since it is also embedded in the structure and function of body and brain over millions of years of evolution, it emerges naturally as well as under intelligently contrived guidance as well.

In this way metta meditation makes for a more loving society even when half of the crew are still struggling to sit for 2 minutes.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28502916 - 10/13/23 07:53 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

one would meditate 10 years and then continue meditating to make every season better than the one before


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: meditation prep [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28502934 - 10/13/23 08:14 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

I think a lot of this is due to the mind simply being relaxed.

Watch the breath with no influence. Simply allowing the autonomous breathing to function. Counting, duration/speed, depth, belly or chest, etc. just thrown all out. This way, there is attention yet essentially relaxed. The goal to do less rather than more.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Rahz]
    #28503033 - 10/13/23 09:33 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

the goal is to be present, watching the breath lets the brain produce a content recycling feedback that enhances relaxation and insight.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meditation prep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28506404 - 10/16/23 05:41 AM (3 months, 11 days ago)

there might be no limit to how much better meditation can make things
and how learned and accomplished you can get

better things come when we are quiet

everything depends on thought


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28506453 - 10/16/23 07:18 AM (3 months, 11 days ago)

yes, in a yin yang circulation, perceptions depend on perceptions, cradelling subsequent perceptions.

yoked to the central theme of meditation, mental activity reflects itself.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meditation prep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28506482 - 10/16/23 07:53 AM (3 months, 11 days ago)

wow i was just writing with redgreenvines and wow he made me so happy I have a much greater time now

happy monday!

and good trips!

def hit up that salvia

:mushroom2:


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28506486 - 10/16/23 07:55 AM (3 months, 11 days ago)

it is important to have a great time and a great day but it is also important to invest in the future
become more free and reduce attatchment

--

I like the it happens to sick people point about dying


Edited by Ferdinando (10/16/23 08:12 AM)


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Ferdinando]
    #28506491 - 10/16/23 08:00 AM (3 months, 11 days ago)

Yeah, RGVs is a legend! I just wish he could console me.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meditation prep [Re: Pinkerton] * 1
    #28506538 - 10/16/23 08:53 AM (3 months, 11 days ago)

self soothing is not something I do for you, but I did remind Ferdinando about the middle way, and he did the rest.

basically I did nothing at all


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OnlineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: meditation prep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28506556 - 10/16/23 09:03 AM (3 months, 11 days ago)

I want someone to do my self-soothing for me.  I'm just too lazy.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: meditation prep [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #28506567 - 10/16/23 09:10 AM (3 months, 11 days ago)

there, there. :sadyes:


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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