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OfflineSeizureSalad
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: ShroomNugget]
    #28461166 - 09/06/23 10:51 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Thanks everyone for the replies, I will keep the thread updated about the performance of that hard-to-break spawn. I am currently PC'ing 10 new jars of grain. I left the oats to dry overnight so they are much less damp. According to Bod's tek, "you cant get the grains too dry". The example above in the thread demonstrates that the colonization may be much slower, so I guess I will just see if my colonization is significantly slower this time.

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OfflineKinoko314
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: SeizureSalad]
    #28461437 - 09/07/23 10:55 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I use bod's tek, but I'm not so sure that "you cant get the grains too dry."

I had some light wispy myc growth in jars that had bone dry (on the outside) grain.

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OfflineSeizureSalad
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: Kinoko314]
    #28461750 - 09/07/23 05:52 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Sorry I didn't make it clear but yeah that's what I meant, Bod says you can make the grains as dry as possible, the grains will never be too dry to work.

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OfflineKinoko314
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: SeizureSalad]
    #28461788 - 09/07/23 06:40 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Maybe I wasn't clear.  I think Bod may be wrong about that. 

Experiment for yourself and you'll figure out what works for you.

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Offlineplate.82
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: SeizureSalad]
    #28461901 - 09/07/23 08:20 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I'm actually on team Bod here. I prefer my grains on the dryer side even if it adds 2-3 days until full colonization. Overly wet grains will slow things down even more than dry grain.

I actually don't even boil my grains. They soak for 24-36 hours before being strained and loaded(still wet on the surface) into jars. This hydrates the grains to between 50-53%

Everything colonizes just fine and the grain is easy to work with(breaks up easily). I compensate for the low moisture content of the grains by allowing them to soak in plain water for 2 hours before spawning. I also use that water to hydrate my substrate.

:2cents:

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OfflineSeizureSalad
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: plate.82]
    #28462084 - 09/08/23 04:13 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Interesting takes, but Kinoko is right, I just gotta feel it out and develop that green thumb. The mycelium this thread was originally about has begun to colonize the coir, everything is looking ok so far. (to my inexperienced eyes)

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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: ShroomNugget] * 1
    #28464252 - 09/10/23 11:33 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomNugget said:
Pictures alone won't tell you crap half the time. my jars usually look superb.




I was asking for pictures of the whole process, including grain prep, which would help indicate if starches or water content are a cause for this stickiness. Pictures of the grains at each stage would tell us a whole lot more than, "My jars are acting real difficult, but trust me, I'm doing everything right."

You're the one with jars so stuck together you can't G2G. I am the one with a video doing G2G with clean spawn so loose it looks uncolonized to you. What is the purpose of PMing me for help just to correct me on what will and won't help me provide it?

If your jars look superb and they're not contaminated and you know people won't get any information from pictures of them, what is it you need help with?

There are 2 types of Shroomery noobs in this world, buddy:

1. Those who ask 34652369 questions to actually listen and learn because they know they don't know shit yet.

2. Those who ask questions about problematic grain spawn, insistent they usually "look superb", despite them being so stuck together it takes wooden skewers to pry them from the jar.

:shrug:

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OfflineSeizureSalad
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: stareatclouds]
    #28465012 - 09/11/23 04:03 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

you seem pretty experienced so if you dont mind I wanted to ask if I can go ahead and spawn as soon as the myc has reached all the grains (as in the pics I posted above in this thread) or wait an extra day or two to let them consolidate? I was under the assumption they needed extra time to consolidate.

Now that I look back I feel that a combo of overly-wet grains and that extra consolidation time caused my spawn to be hard to break up.

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Online3.A.M
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: SeizureSalad] * 1
    #28465051 - 09/11/23 05:22 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I’ve come to the conclusion there’s too many different variables each person is working with that what’s works for one won’t necessarily work for you, I’ve had trouble with millet breaking up from day dot, tried every damned tek there is along with every variable I can think of and had and read every discussion on this forum imaginable and copped plenty of condescension in the process, now use popcorn for jars as they break up better for g2g then millet for bags, have a high success rate but those bags are still a bitch to break up, could be the brand of grain you’re using or something else entirely, just experiment till you find something that works :shrug:


--------------------



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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: 3.A.M]
    #28467365 - 09/13/23 09:28 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Millet always sticks together. You need to split your PC time in half to pull it out, shake it up, and throw it back in. Or you can do what I did and just mix half with oats and half with millet. Plenty of inoculation points and it doesn't stick together terribly.

Seizure,

Consolidation isn't needed for grain spawn. It's something you do with PF Tek because there's so much nutrition in the cakes. You want to let it kind of "power up" and digest to pump out healthy fruits.

You may want to let them chill for a day or so after hitting 100% to be on the safe side, though. Not because consolidating helps, but because you may not be the best at knowing when 100% is hit yet. No idea if that's true, just giving general advice for newer growers.

Post pics of your grains when loaded in jars, after the PC, and after inoculating for better advice re: hydration.

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OfflineSeizureSalad
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: stareatclouds]
    #28468575 - 09/14/23 07:28 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Awesome, appreciate the help. So far so good with this monotub. I hope to have fresh shroomies in around a week :grin: Learning is fun. So is consuming :mushroom2:

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Offlineblackout
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: Kinoko314]
    #28468913 - 09/14/23 04:02 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SeizureSalad said:According to Bod's tek, "you cant get the grains too dry".



Quote:

Kinoko314 said:
Maybe I wasn't clear.  I think Bod may be wrong about that. 

Experiment for yourself and you'll figure out what works for you.



Seems he never said it, I did a search and it shows no results for Bod with the exact phrase "you cant get the grains too dry".

Context is absolutely vital if people are going to be misquoting/paraphrasing others.

Quote or link the exact bit if you want a reasonable response.

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Offlineblackout
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: plate.82]
    #28468979 - 09/14/23 04:42 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

plate.82 said:
The only difference is that the jars on the left have 55% water content and the ones on the right have 50%.



Quote:

plate.82 said:
I actually don't even boil my grains. They soak for 24-36 hours before being strained and loaded(still wet on the surface) into jars. This hydrates the grains to between 50-53%



It is not clear what you mean here. I am guessing by 50% it means that 100g of "fresh somewhat moist grains" ended up as 200g when boiled/soaked/simmered. i.e. totally ignoring the fact that they already contained moisture. But I am seriously not sure, since some do account for this, they may even be following a strictly volumetric recipe and presuming their results might be similar, not even knowing if the originator was talking above true overall moisture levels or added ones.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4371401

one advantage of popcorn is that it must be in a certain moisture level to be able to pop properly, so brands do not matter as much.

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OfflineKinoko314
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: blackout]
    #28469011 - 09/14/23 05:12 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:

SeizureSalad said:According to Bod's tek, "you cant get the grains too dry".



Quote:

Kinoko314 said:
Maybe I wasn't clear.  I think Bod may be wrong about that. 

Experiment for yourself and you'll figure out what works for you.



Seems he never said it, I did a search and it shows no results for Bod with the exact phrase "you cant get the grains too dry".

Context is absolutely vital if people are going to be misquoting/paraphrasing others.

Quote or link the exact bit if you want a reasonable response.





Oh no, you couldn't find it exactly word for word?  It must be so incredibly misquoted.  Let's see, what does it say. . ."you can't get it too dry."

So now you have "the grains" instead of "it."  It seems to be the same thing only clearer!

There's plenty of context in Seizure's post, but if you need more you could look at bod's oat tek.  I'm sure you can find it.

Really though, he didn't ask a question about it, and neither did I.

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Offlineplate.82
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: blackout]
    #28469018 - 09/14/23 05:19 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Hey Blackout

I actually took the time to dry the grains out in the oven. I don't remember the exact starting number but it went from about750g to 674g after six hours at 225. Maybe not perfectly dry, but damn close and it wasn't getting any drier.

I then let the grains soak for 18+ hours and strained them, rewheighed them, divided evenly by wheight into six jars, and did the math on how much more water they would need to reach 50% or 55% moisture content. Water was added, and the jars were allowed to rest on their side to soak up as much free water as possible before PCing.

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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: plate.82]
    #28470030 - 09/15/23 01:11 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Why in the hell are you doing all of that?

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Offlineplate.82
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: stareatclouds]
    #28470365 - 09/15/23 06:15 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
Why in the hell are you doing all of that?





Because I'm a fucking nerd and I wanted to see what would happen with the two different moisture contents, lol.

As it turns out, 55% colonized a bit faster, and had denser growth.

I don't don't do it every time. In fact I'm so lazy that after this experiment I decided to not boil my grains going forward. Letting them soak for 24hrs+ gets them to 52-53% moisture content that works just fine, doesn't cause sticky grains, and saves me a step.

I'd say this experiment saved me a lot more than it cost me.

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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: plate.82]
    #28470730 - 09/16/23 05:46 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Why would you ever soak for 24 hours, greatly increasing the bacterial load, when you can achieve the same amount of hydration with hot water in an hour and skip the extra bacteria germinating?

Just boil hot water and dump it on your oats in a Homer bucket. Have your grains in  paint strainer bag and you can deal with them super easy. I mean, do whatever you want, obviously, but that's been most efficient for me.

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Offlineplate.82
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: stareatclouds]
    #28470919 - 09/16/23 09:55 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

It fits my schedule and you cant really mess it up. I usually do my grains first thing in the morning, I'm sure less time might work but then I'd be waking up early.

I'm not worried bacterial load in this scenario. After days of soaking I could see problems arising but I've never heard of anyone having problems at 24 hours. I think the grains sprouting would be your first problem.

I use hot water from the start, but not boiling. I'm also using rye which I believe hydrates differently from oats(I've never tried using oats.) I'll try your method, if I can get grains to 52-53% in an hour(or even 2) I'll switch methods.

I like the paint strainer bag idea! I'll probably do that for my next round.

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: plate.82]
    #28470946 - 09/16/23 10:12 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

If your grains cling tenaciously, if they have central balls of unbreakable/inseparable grains, or require digging out with a spoon, you almost certainly have contaminated spawn (species dependent).

Do not apply cubensis mycelium growth performance to oysters, or other species. The above rule may not apply to spawn which has been consolidating for extended periods.

Bacterial spawn will fruit, however I have much doubts when reading noob claims regarding grains that refuse to break apart producing a canopy flush. Folks will read my clean spawn thread only to make the claim that all pictures jars are examples of perfectly healthy spawn. They even claim a "canopy" until they post pics.

To make the claim that pictures tell you nothing, is asinine at best.

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