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SeizureSalad
Stranger

Registered: 08/15/23
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Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking
#28460202 - 09/06/23 04:16 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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I had a hard time breaking up the grain spawn while they were still in the 1 quart mason jars. As I understand it, this is a classic sign that the spawn may be contaminated. However, I think this may instead be because, as I mentioned in a previous journal entry, the grains were still quite damp when I loaded them into the jars. I could find no other sign of contamination. The mycelium was uniformly distributed throughout the grain, there was no visible area of color change, and when I smelled each jar, they both had a damp mushroom aroma, no foul odor. My lack of experience may be a factor here, but I am hopeful that my grain spawn was good enough to get a (relatively unimpressive) flush or two.
Should I be worried? They were easy to break by hand, but impossible to break up by shaking the mason jars. The Jars were fully colonized, this was right before I spawned them to bulk substrate.
First time grower
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Screwup
Googles your dumb questions


Registered: 01/27/22
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: SeizureSalad]
#28460204 - 09/06/23 04:17 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Pics
Oh wait probably too late now kek
-------------------- 🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿
Help US help YOU TEK
2023 Dehydrator TEK
Edited by Screwup (09/06/23 04:18 AM)
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BigMacaroniBassman
Fullmushroom Alchemist



Registered: 08/15/23
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: SeizureSalad]
#28460206 - 09/06/23 04:20 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
SeizureSalad said: I had a hard time breaking up the grain spawn while they were still in the 1 quart mason jars. As I understand it, this is a classic sign that the spawn may be contaminated. However, I think this may instead be because, as I mentioned in a previous journal entry, the grains were still quite damp when I loaded them into the jars. I could find no other sign of contamination. The mycelium was uniformly distributed throughout the grain, there was no visible area of color change, and when I smelled each jar, they both had a damp mushroom aroma, no foul odor. My lack of experience may be a factor here, but I am hopeful that my grain spawn was good enough to get a (relatively unimpressive) flush or two.
Should I be worried? They were easy to break by hand, but impossible to break up by shaking the mason jars. The Jars were fully colonized, this was right before I spawned them to bulk substrate.
First time grower 
How full were your jars?
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SeizureSalad
Stranger

Registered: 08/15/23
Posts: 82
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: Screwup]
#28460207 - 09/06/23 04:22 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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I'm sorry I have already combined the spawn with bulk substrate. These are the only pics I have available, taken a couple days ago.


jars were a little less than 2/3 full.
Edited by SeizureSalad (09/06/23 04:22 AM)
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SeizureSalad
Stranger

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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: SeizureSalad]
#28460212 - 09/06/23 04:25 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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I think I mainly just wanted to know if anyone else has had success with grain spawn that was difficult to shake up, I dont wanna lose hope on this monotub
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dajerm119
Mr. Bubs



Registered: 08/03/23
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: SeizureSalad]
#28460227 - 09/06/23 04:59 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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I am not a very experienced grower but I have a few strains that grow so fast they are hard to break up once fully colonized. Tarragon, Mediterranean and King oyster are all hard to break up if they get over colonized in the jars. I also had that issue with Mexican Dutch King as its a vigorous grower as well. That spawn looks fine to me, I bet your grow goes well.
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dajerm119
Mr. Bubs



Registered: 08/03/23
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Last seen: 5 days, 8 hours
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: dajerm119]
#28460228 - 09/06/23 05:00 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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And yes, I have had some success using the grain spawn I mentioned. Try to make sure your spawn isn't so wet next time though, that can easily lead to bacterial growth. Good Luck!
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BigMacaroniBassman
Fullmushroom Alchemist



Registered: 08/15/23
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: dajerm119]
#28460450 - 09/06/23 10:15 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
SeizureSalad said: I'm sorry I have already combined the spawn with bulk substrate. These are the only pics I have available, taken a couple days ago.


jars were a little less than 2/3 full.
Quote:
dajerm119 said: I am not a very experienced grower but I have a few strains that grow so fast they are hard to break up once fully colonized. Tarragon, Mediterranean and King oyster are all hard to break up if they get over colonized in the jars. I also had that issue with Mexican Dutch King as its a vigorous grower as well. That spawn looks fine to me, I bet your grow goes well.
Same here, as dajerm said. I use a dictionary to break up jars, and use a spoon to break it into useable spawn. Update us on your progress!
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ShroomNugget
Mycologist Wannabe



Registered: 02/10/23
Posts: 355
Last seen: 6 months, 14 days
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I am literally coming from a PM where I asked a guy about his video. He was doing g2g transfers and I asked how his grain was so loose, like it never colonized, and explained my situation. He said it's likely contam....
I have such a hard time believing this! I've never once had a jar break up with ease. I've had jars range from a once major bacterial contam and thrown out, to what I believe is ultra clean but it really sticks at full colonization.
My "clean" spawn that always sticks, almost always produces full flushes with canopies now that I've nailed down my teks. To this day I use a wooden disposable skewer to break up the grain during spawning because it's so clumpy. It doesn't seem to hurt.
Now I'm wondering if it's a timing thing regarding shaking the jar, the number of shakes, and when. My routine is to shake at 30% colonization and then I let it go full 100% where every speck of every grain is colonized. Maybe people who have better luck are shaking a lot more often and/or don't let it colonized past 90%? Do they incorporate refrigeration before full colonization of a master jar? So many detailed questions that likely make the difference but most people don't post all those important details.
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BigMacaroniBassman
Fullmushroom Alchemist



Registered: 08/15/23
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: ShroomNugget]
#28460502 - 09/06/23 11:44 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ShroomNugget said: I am literally coming from a PM where I asked a guy about his video. He was doing g2g transfers and I asked how his grain was so loose, like it never colonized, and explained my situation. He said it's likely contam....
I have such a hard time believing this! I've never once had a jar break up with ease. I've had jars range from a once major bacterial contam and thrown out, to what I believe is ultra clean but it really sticks at full colonization.
My "clean" spawn that always sticks, almost always produces full flushes with canopies now that I've nailed down my teks. To this day I use a wooden disposable skewer to break up the grain during spawning because it's so clumpy. It doesn't seem to hurt.
Now I'm wondering if it's a timing thing regarding shaking the jar, the number of shakes, and when. My routine is to shake at 30% colonization and then I let it go full 100% where every speck of every grain is colonized. Maybe people who have better luck are shaking a lot more often and/or don't let it colonized past 90%? Do they incorporate refrigeration before full colonization of a master jar? So many detailed questions that likely make the difference but most people don't post all those important details.
Timing does matter, shaking around 30% seems to help. I think excess moisture is a primary culprit. Last week my thermometer fell out of my incubator and cooked the bottoms of my jars, thought I lost them. However, after the jars recovered, I observed the bottoms of the jars exposed to the most heat became easy to break with a spoon, or smacking it with my hand
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plate.82
Sexy Teapot



Registered: 02/27/13
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: SeizureSalad]
#28460507 - 09/06/23 11:56 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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The jars below are identical and inoculated on the same day. The only difference is that the jars on the left have 55% water content and the ones on the right have 50%.
The dryer jars took an extra 2-3 days to colonize and were much easier to break up. I think the extra moisture allows for denser mycellium growth that can makes the grain harder to separate.
At 50% I can just shake the jars in my hand. At 55% I had to bang them against my palm or on the carpet.
 Pic of the day- 55% moisture vs 50% moisture.
I didn't let either set of jars consolidate for more than a day- but from experience this is actually the biggest factor and eventually I resort to using a spare tire.
Edited by plate.82 (09/06/23 11:58 AM)
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BigMacaroniBassman
Fullmushroom Alchemist



Registered: 08/15/23
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: plate.82]
#28460511 - 09/06/23 12:01 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
plate.82 said: The jars below are identical and inoculated on the same day. The only difference is that the jars on the left have 55% water content and the ones on the right have 50%.
The dryer jars took an extra 2-3 days to colonize and were much easier to break up. I think the extra moisture allows for denser mycellium growth that can makes the grain harder to separate.
At 50% I can just shake the jars in my hand. At 55% I had to bang them against my palm or on the carpet.
 Pic of the day- 55% moisture vs 50% moisture.
I didn't let either set of jars consolidate for more than a day- but from experience this is actually the biggest factor and eventually I resort to using a spare tire.
Beautiful jars by the way
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Kinoko314
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The left jars have some super spiky mycelium. Generally not a good sign in grain jars.
I suspect they are just bacterial. If the spawn was totally clean then more water wouldn't make it contaminate. If there is some bacteria there then the wetter grains are a better environment for them, and they'll multiply more.
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BigMacaroniBassman
Fullmushroom Alchemist



Registered: 08/15/23
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: Kinoko314]
#28460582 - 09/06/23 01:45 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Ah! Good catch. Can we establish baseline to how hard y'all are shaking your jars?
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 10,361
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Quote:
ShroomNugget said: I am literally coming from a PM where I asked a guy about his video. He was doing g2g transfers and I asked how his grain was so loose, like it never colonized, and explained my situation. He said it's likely contam....
I have such a hard time believing this! I've never once had a jar break up with ease. I've had jars range from a once major bacterial contam and thrown out, to what I believe is ultra clean but it really sticks at full colonization.
My "clean" spawn that always sticks, almost always produces full flushes with canopies now that I've nailed down my teks. To this day I use a wooden disposable skewer to break up the grain during spawning because it's so clumpy. It doesn't seem to hurt.
Now I'm wondering if it's a timing thing regarding shaking the jar, the number of shakes, and when. My routine is to shake at 30% colonization and then I let it go full 100% where every speck of every grain is colonized. Maybe people who have better luck are shaking a lot more often and/or don't let it colonized past 90%? Do they incorporate refrigeration before full colonization of a master jar? So many detailed questions that likely make the difference but most people don't post all those important details.
No. None of that matters. I would shake at 30% and let it go until 100%. My healthy spawn never needed more than a palm strike to break it up or a few whacks on my bare heel.
Quit theorizing about minutiae and just post pics of your spawn, people. Take a picture of your grain when loaded into the jars for PC, when they come out (or are about to be inoculated), at 30%, during recovery, and finally spawning. Let people see your grain and folks will tell you if something is off or not.
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plate.82
Sexy Teapot



Registered: 02/27/13
Posts: 177
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: Kinoko314]
#28460622 - 09/06/23 02:51 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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I kinda doubt them being bacterial. I used one for G2G and the other is pumping out fruits rn. It is possible, and I do agree that more moisture encourages(but not causes) bacterial growth in jars.
My main point was that OP probably shouldn't worry about his spawn. Thicker mycellium is harder to break up and a little extra moisture seems to encourage denser growth early on.
I've tried this a few times and the results are consistent across cultures and at least two species(cubes & king oyster)
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BeefSupremeJr
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: plate.82]
#28460624 - 09/06/23 02:53 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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i had some spawn weeks ago that i had to dig out. i over cooked it. it seems to be working out. time will tell.
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ShroomNugget
Mycologist Wannabe



Registered: 02/10/23
Posts: 355
Last seen: 6 months, 14 days
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: stareatclouds]
#28460867 - 09/06/23 07:12 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
stareatclouds said:
Quote:
ShroomNugget said: I am literally coming from a PM where I asked a guy about his video. He was doing g2g transfers and I asked how his grain was so loose, like it never colonized, and explained my situation. He said it's likely contam....
I have such a hard time believing this! I've never once had a jar break up with ease. I've had jars range from a once major bacterial contam and thrown out, to what I believe is ultra clean but it really sticks at full colonization.
My "clean" spawn that always sticks, almost always produces full flushes with canopies now that I've nailed down my teks. To this day I use a wooden disposable skewer to break up the grain during spawning because it's so clumpy. It doesn't seem to hurt.
Now I'm wondering if it's a timing thing regarding shaking the jar, the number of shakes, and when. My routine is to shake at 30% colonization and then I let it go full 100% where every speck of every grain is colonized. Maybe people who have better luck are shaking a lot more often and/or don't let it colonized past 90%? Do they incorporate refrigeration before full colonization of a master jar? So many detailed questions that likely make the difference but most people don't post all those important details.
No. None of that matters. I would shake at 30% and let it go until 100%. My healthy spawn never needed more than a palm strike to break it up or a few whacks on my bare heel.
Quit theorizing about minutiae and just post pics of your spawn, people. Take a picture of your grain when loaded into the jars for PC, when they come out (or are about to be inoculated), at 30%, during recovery, and finally spawning. Let people see your grain and folks will tell you if something is off or not.
Pictures alone won't tell you crap half the time. my jars usually look superb.
Quote:
plate.82 said: The jars below are identical and inoculated on the same day. The only difference is that the jars on the left have 55% water content and the ones on the right have 50%.
The dryer jars took an extra 2-3 days to colonize and were much easier to break up. I think the extra moisture allows for denser mycellium growth that can makes the grain harder to separate.
At 50% I can just shake the jars in my hand. At 55% I had to bang them against my palm or on the carpet.
 Pic of the day- 55% moisture vs 50% moisture.
I didn't let either set of jars consolidate for more than a day- but from experience this is actually the biggest factor and eventually I resort to using a spare tire.
Now this is a useful and helpful post.
It seems the consensus is higher water content at inoculation results in thicker, stickier mycelium. Even a 5% difference which seems surprising.
Edited by ShroomNugget (09/06/23 07:16 PM)
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: ShroomNugget] 3
#28460876 - 09/06/23 07:18 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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You’d be surprised. I’ve seen a lot of shitty jars that, before posting a pic, the owner said were pristine.
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ShroomNugget
Mycologist Wannabe



Registered: 02/10/23
Posts: 355
Last seen: 6 months, 14 days
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Re: My Grain Spawn Doesnt Break Easily by Shaking [Re: Mycolorado]
#28460893 - 09/06/23 07:27 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mycolorado said: You’d be surprised. I’ve seen a lot of shitty jars that, before posting a pic, the owner said were pristine.
I mean that's fair and I was part of that crowd just a couple months ago. Definitely not an issue for me anymore though.
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