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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 69,325
Loc: The Inexpressible...
Last seen: 22 minutes, 58 seconds
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Im afraid some guys are naturally good interacting with women good looks and money dont mean much if you can't allure a woman's romantic interest 
Maybe consider paying a non-sexual escort to keep you company? Gotta better than being alone all the time...
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Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,262
Last seen: 20 minutes, 2 seconds
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Social skills are just that, skills. Skills are gained through practice. Practice comes from doing stuff. Don't be a dick, don't expect anything, and you will go far.
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LogicaL Chaos said: Maybe consider paying a non-sexual escort to keep you company? Gotta better than being alone all the time...
Doubt that.
Plus, this teaches you transactional skills. Transactional skills do not translate to attracting women, unless, again, you like gold diggers.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,798
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Quote:
EternalDreamer said: I'm genuinely confused out of my mind how people form relationships. I'm a self-made millionaire, am 31 years old, and find it next to impossible to find a woman. I don't get how this happens. Is it supposed to come regularly? I've been alive for 31 years old and never have been close to getting a girlfriend and don't perceive women as interested in me for whatever reason. I look decent. I'm a nice guy. I don't get it.
Don't be a doormat kinda nice guy 
If you end up talking to someone, ask about their weekend or something and if you want to spend some time with them getting to know them or go to an event with them, just ask. Be vulnerable enough to face rejection and sometimes you might be pleasantly surprised if they show mutual interest.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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EternalDreamer
Stranger
Registered: 02/09/20
Posts: 47
Last seen: 23 days, 22 hours
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Re: Living Alone Happily [Re: sudly]
#28533813 - 11/08/23 06:11 AM (2 months, 19 days ago) |
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I don’t understand, where do I find activities to do with others? Is this advertised? Where? How? Do I just show up to a random place with activity in it? I’m being serious. It seems like a Catch-22. You need friends to get friends.
Also, every women that I meet just says I can’t relax, im too shy, nervous. This is impossible.
Why doesn’t online dating work for me? 25% of marriages come from it, yet I get nothing. Im sick of the excuses. Sick of it. IT SHOULD NOT BE THIS HARD TO FIND SOMEONE.
I don’t care how socially awkward I am, Im a nice, responsible, and safe guy: this makes 0 sense. Im so confused by this that I’ve entertained whether im living in the Truman Show and this is all just a practical joke.
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Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,262
Last seen: 20 minutes, 2 seconds
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Quote:
EternalDreamer said: I don’t understand, where do I find activities to do with others? Is this advertised? Where? How? Do I just show up to a random place with activity in it? I’m being serious. It seems like a Catch-22. You need friends to get friends.
Meetup groups. Local events. If you wanna go real old school, go to a bar. Drinking is an "activity", of sorts. But in my experience, bars are (a) difficult and (b) you don't want to date barflys.
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EternalDreamer said: Also, every women that I meet just says I can’t relax, im too shy, nervous. This is impossible.
This is called social skills. Practice, and you'll be less shy and more relaxed. My first mushroom grow didn't give me a forest of mushrooms with 4000% biomass efficiency either.
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EternalDreamer said: Why doesn’t online dating work for me? 25% of marriages come from it, yet I get nothing. Im sick of the excuses. Sick of it. IT SHOULD NOT BE THIS HARD TO FIND SOMEONE.
Online dating is visual. If you really want it to "work" (i.e. get your foot in the door more often via matches), then go buy some nice clothes, take them to a tailor, then go to a high end men's salon, get your hair fixed, then go to a skincare place, get dolled up, then find a pro photographer and makeup artist, and spend a day or two taking pictures. You will absolutely get matches. Whether those matches lead to dates is up to your social skills.
Otherwise, it's a numbers game.
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EternalDreamer said: I don’t care how socially awkward I am, Im a nice, responsible, and safe guy: this makes 0 sense. Im so confused by this that I’ve entertained whether im living in the Truman Show and this is all just a practical joke.
Okay, so, imagine someone collapses in the street. Their friend yells "I NEED A DOCTOR!", you come up, and their friend asks: "are you a doctor?" "No, but I'm nice and responsible and safe!"
Being nice and responsible and safe are all good things, but they are (mostly) irrelevant to the social activity that is dating. Being nice and responsible and safe is how you maintain a good relationship. Being social and putting yourself out there is how you start a relationship.
Being "nice and responsible and safe" is also the bare minimum for being an adult. Those are not special qualities, those are pretty much standard for the vast majority of the population. The guy who brought his guitar to parties was also nice and responsible and safe, plus he could play guitar.
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EternalDreamer
Stranger
Registered: 02/09/20
Posts: 47
Last seen: 23 days, 22 hours
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Re: Living Alone Happily [Re: Kryptos]
#28534050 - 11/08/23 09:55 AM (2 months, 19 days ago) |
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I’m sick of the excuses. Online dating should lead to compatible marches after being on it for 5 years. I look decent, I list a prestigious job on my profile, I list an Ivy League college on my profile, I list “compassion and kindness” as my values as well.
Many relationships involve people who are absolute jerks, and yet I’m a nice guy and can’t find anyone through online dating????
Look, I get it, I acknowledge that I shouldn’t expect to get dozens of matches, but THIS? Heck, I wouldn’t even expect a criminal to fail this badly in getting dates through online dating.
IT SHOULDNT BE THIS HARD. I FEEL LIKE I SHOULD HAVE GONE EXTINCT, THIS IS SO IMPOSSIBLE. ITS DRIVING ME CRAZY!
Thanks for mentioning meetups, but I’ve done social gatherings, and they too go nowhere... it’s literally been the story of my life.
Basically, in all of these social activities with women, the social strong alpha guys circle the women with their popped collars, and I’m out on the side — attracting no one. I’ve tried to approach the women, but it just goes nowhere. I can’t compete against these alpha males and, quite frankly, I don’t want too — I’m not going to start immigrating someone that I’m not.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,685
Loc: Raccoon City
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Quote:
I can’t compete against these alpha males
You're grading yourself on a points system, in which you are intending to be considerate of other people, who don't want to be forced to do math.
While decorum and family planning probably seem most important to any self-conscious person, the situation calls for liberal amounts of stupidity and convenience more along the lines of spawning salmon than a personality profile.
My qualifications have nothing to do with me being alpha.
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Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,262
Last seen: 20 minutes, 2 seconds
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Quote:
EternalDreamer said: Online dating should
Remove "should" from your vocabulary when it comes to dating. Nothing "should" happen.
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EternalDreamer said: I look decent, I list a prestigious job on my profile, I list an Ivy League college on my profile, I list “compassion and kindness” as my values as well.
Once again, you are treating this like an achievement in a videogame. I beat this boss using this weapon, therefore I deserve the achievement for beating this boss with this weapon. That is not how relationships work. Women are people with their own thoughts and desires. Sometimes, those desires are contradictory and don't make sense. I have contradictory desires that don't make sense. You are not entitled to a woman because you have a job and a car and a million bucks. This is not a logical progression based on some sort of LifeScript(tm). I recently ceased contact with a woman who has the job and the house and the 8 figure bank account and the looks...because she wasn't really all that interesting.
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EternalDreamer said: Many relationships involve people who are absolute jerks, and yet I’m a nice guy and can’t find anyone through online dating????
They are jerks from your perception. Again, being a "nice guy" is not an achievement, it is the absolute bare minimum for participating in a society. Everyone else is a nice guy, but they're also fun to talk to. Or play guitar. Or whatever else.
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EternalDreamer said: Look, I get it, I acknowledge that I shouldn’t expect to get dozens of matches, but THIS? Heck, I wouldn’t even expect a criminal to fail this badly in getting dates through online dating.
Criminals are often, at the very least, interesting. They do crimes and have poor impulse control. They provide excitement.
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EternalDreamer said: IT SHOULDNT BE THIS HARD. I FEEL LIKE I SHOULD HAVE GONE EXTINCT, THIS IS SO IMPOSSIBLE. ITS DRIVING ME CRAZY!
Perhaps you will go extinct. C'est la vie.
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EternalDreamer said: Thanks for mentioning meetups, but I’ve done social gatherings, and they too go nowhere... it’s literally been the story of my life.
Are you going somewhere with the intention of picking up women, or are you going somewhere for fun? I go to social meetups for fun. Women give me their numbers. This is not because I'm "alpha" and have a popped collar. This is because I enjoy myself and the people around me pick up on the fact that I am enjoying myself, and they wanna be near someone who's having a good time.
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EternalDreamer said: Basically, in all of these social activities with women, the social strong alpha guys circle the women with their popped collars, and I’m out on the side — attracting no one. I’ve tried to approach the women, but it just goes nowhere. I can’t compete against these alpha males
When people give advice like "It'll happen when you least expect it!" what they mean is to relax and have fun. If you're there to approach women, women will immediately catch on. They can feel that you're not there to enjoy yourself, you are there to pick up women. This is not attractive. Nobody wants to get "picked up". People wanna "fall" in love. It's something spontaneous that just happens, when two people are having a good time in close proximity.
Also, remove "alpha male" from your vocabulary, entirely. Dating and non-dating contexts.
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EternalDreamer said: I don’t want too — I’m not going to start immigrating someone that I’m not.
I assume you mean "imitating", not "immigrating". Becoming a passport bro is just finding a gold digger with extra steps and lower income requirements.
Don't imitate someone you're not. Become someone who is interesting. Become someone who is fun to be around, without any ulterior motives. Imitation will get you nowhere.
Find something you like doing, and then get good at it, and then be friendly and helpful to anyone new that wants advice. A portion of those new people will be women, and they will want to date you. And I literally mean ANYTHING. You ever see an esports tournament? You've got the nerdiest no-life dudes on the planet playing competitive videogames that are famous for their toxicity, and e-girls throw themselves at those guys. Because those guys are there to play, and they clearly enjoy it, and that is attractive.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,685
Loc: Raccoon City
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You're making a mental function out of what is a bodily function for most people.
Not even jerkishness is a qualifier.
People are randomly throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticks.
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 69,325
Loc: The Inexpressible...
Last seen: 22 minutes, 58 seconds
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I have the solution. You need to go back to school. But not just any school, but a school that specializes in developing social skills for adults.
Something like PEERS: https://asdachievement.org/peers/
A University might have a similar program thru a Sociology or Social Psychology program but i feel like a school that specializes in adult social skill development would be your best bet.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,798
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You need to make friendship have a relationship. Through online dating, volunteering, community events, shared hobbies, work, studies etc.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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EternalDreamer
Stranger
Registered: 02/09/20
Posts: 47
Last seen: 23 days, 22 hours
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Re: Living Alone Happily [Re: sudly]
#28534284 - 11/08/23 01:24 PM (2 months, 19 days ago) |
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I appreciate all of the well thought out comments: they mean well, and I particularly appreciate how I am being asked to not "force" love. I agree. That I should not be at places with the goals of picking up women, but to be there to have fun and form meaningful relationships.
I think that may be the issue. I really just don't have fun around other people in social settings, because I've never gotten vibes that people want me around...
Let me explain: At school, I was always last picked and partnerless in gym class or whatever other class from pre-school to high school (so much so that whenever I hear the phrase "find a partner", it still gives me mini-panic attacks!) At college, I tried desperately to change and make friends, but never could and just ate alone for lunch. At work, I yet again tried desperately to make friends and, despite all of my efforts, was referred to as a "lone wolf" and I was relegated to the third wheel.
Obviously, the result from this is a natural apathy, at best, for wanting to be involved in social settings. No wonder going to meetups isn't "fun" for me.
So, my issue isn't so much that I don't "put myself out there", but that I'm genuinely unable to form relationships, even when in social settings. I don't know why. I'm not socially illiterate, but for whatever reason, I just can't form relationships... like, at all. And the fact that I can't even do it on dating apps is a testament to that, when 25% of marriages come from that. Why can't I attract a woman on a dating? Seriously, what the fuck is going on with this simulation?
What's frustrating to me is that I think you all mean well, but I don't think you walked two moons in my moccasins. If you did, you also would be perplexed by my situation. It's hard, if not impossible, to appreciate or relate to something that you yourself did not live through. An analogy: you're like birds trying to teach a fish how to get to the grocery store, oblivious to that you have something that I lack.
So, it's not just as easy as going "out there" to an esports activity and "having fun" when you've been socially rejected your entire life. Instead of telling me to do stuff that has never resulted in me being successful, maybe the question is: why am I so unsuccessful in forming social relationships, period. Instead of assuming that I'm doing something wrong, maybe we should assume that there's something wrong with me: I don't know maybe it's the way I breathe, something shady about my looks, the way I talk sends bad cues. I don't know, but there's something innately off with me that causes me to not form social relationships when others seem to so easily get them. This is really sad. I feel so unwanted.
I've been diagnosed with "schizotypal personality disorder", which the noteworthy feature of that is an "inability to form relationships" or "feel comfortable around people even after repeated exposure". That's certainly the case for me. I've tried and tried, and it just doesn't feel comfortable to me, but having a family is very important to me.
Edited by EternalDreamer (11/08/23 01:26 PM)
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Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,262
Last seen: 20 minutes, 2 seconds
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Buddy I'm on the psychopathy (ASPD) spectrum. For me, empathy is an intellectual exercise, not inherent. I have no close friendships offline.
How you describe your school, college, and work relationships is quite similar to my own experience.
That's the whole thing. Social skills are skills. I started learning social skills by spreading out my shopping trips to hit 3-4 stores almost every day, and trying to joke with cashiers. This was my way of having "low stakes" interactions, because you really only have time to trade 2-3 phrases during those 30 seconds before you start holding up the line and people get pissed.
Try starting out with similar, low stakes, and very short interactions. Going out to a meetup event for three hours for your first interactions will seem like an exercise in futility, much like jumping off a boat into the middle of the ocean is a terrible way to learn to swim. You gotta build up your comfort level slowly.
Normal people had those initial low stakes interactions on the elementary school playground. We didn't. We need to work past that, and find low-stakes interactions in the adult world to practice.
This is also why I end up editing each of my posts 5-6 times to make sure I'm not being a dick. You can't let yourself be defined by your neurospiciness.
Edited by Kryptos (11/08/23 01:42 PM)
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,685
Loc: Raccoon City
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Quote:
EternalDreamer said: I appreciate all of the well thought out comments: they mean well, and I particularly appreciate how I am being asked to not "force" love.
You're appreciative and nice and putting emphasis on the wrong word.
I hope you can find someone who is up to your level.
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Lynnch
Strangerer



Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 7,855
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That sounds like a tough problem to have, and I'm sorry you're dealing with it. But this seems like a conversation you should be having with a mental health professional. I don't think any of us can provide therapy though this forum. I don't know how you feel, you're right. But I wonder if you would benefit from some kind of anti-anxiety medication.
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 69,325
Loc: The Inexpressible...
Last seen: 22 minutes, 58 seconds
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Ok, so i read more about Schizotypal personality disorder. I think your only choice is to get regular therapy for your condition. Even better if shes a woman so you can get the benefit of interacting with a woman too. With regular therapy, you should be able to make a relationship with a woman (that isnt your therapist) sometime in the future.
-------------------- "What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin PROJECT BLUE BOOK ANALYSIS! (312 pages!) | Psychedelics & UFOs | Ready to Contact UFOs? | The Source on Mushrooms | Trippy Gematrix | Dj TeknoLogical | Fentanyl Test Kits R.I.P. Big Worm || The Start of the Ascension Process was 2020. Welcome to the Next Great Era of Earth 🌎🌍🌏
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,798
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Honestly, you can't win if you're too afraid to lose.
At my last volunteering event there were lots of people, even at parties I've been to there were plenty around, but I didn't get any group vibes or try to make friends with everyone, if at all, there was one person that caught my eye and that I actually paid attention to.
Recently, I only remembered the name of the girl I was interested in and still don't know the names of anyone else there.
It was nice to meet the others, but I wasn't genuinely attracted to any of them but one. That's also because I've been on enough dates and met enough people to have an idea of what I want and what I like in a partner.
I filter those I'm interested in, and even from those people it doesn't always work out as more than one date, or a casual dalliance.
There came a point in time where the event was ending and we'd all just had a brief down, I was standing next to the woman I'm interested in and said, "Hey 'name', it's been really nice meeting you today, could I add you on Facebook?'
She said she didn't have Facebook but had her phone number to share. We talked about social media use a bit and she gave me her number.
I asked because I wanted to ask her to hangout some time if she was interested, the biggest part of being able to ask I think, is that I did so out of genuine interest and didn't expect a yes. I was okay if she didn't want to add me on fb.
The part of that which is remarkable which took me a while to realise, is that by me asking that, I was able to gain some insight into whether or not she was interested at all. If she wasn't interested that'd be fine. Solid rejection isn't as bad as a non-answer, because it doesn't leave ambiguity or ambivilance to worry about, it's just a solid no and move on. But instead she gave me her phone number and the rest was history because from that point on I knew she had a bare minimum of interest.
She's smart enough to know what it means or why I might be asking for contact details, and I'm now aware enough to realise what a bare minimum or mutual interest is.
I messaged her a day or two later and talked about some art project I was doing for a bit. Then after 3 or 4 replies I asked if she was interested in breakfast at a nearby park and she said yes. At no point did I actually flirt with her, I was just interested in getting to know her. It was only near the end of the date when she brought up my sexuality that I told her I was definitely straight, she was gorgeous, smart and an accomplished woman.
I can only offer a little bit of insight from my experience, but it only went that way because I was genuinely interested in her for her, and want more than one thing from women, because friendship is a major part of any relationship too. Friendship is the foundation for any dalliance or beyond I enjoy.
Again, I want to reiterate that you can't win if you're too afraid to lose. You might be pleasantly surprised from time to time if you embrace it.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




Registered: 08/01/23
Posts: 7,185
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 3 seconds
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Grow plants, take care of animals. My grandpa loved it. He did not like people. That being said, humans are naturally social animals. Be willing to go to a Park and talk to some people every now and then.
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EternalDreamer
Stranger
Registered: 02/09/20
Posts: 47
Last seen: 23 days, 22 hours
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Thanks for all these messages, they really hit home. I’m surprised you’ve all been this patient with me.
Anyhow, sudly, I think you point out a big issue with all of this: I am way too petrified of rejection. Heck, I just recently reached out to someone, not even on a romantic way, and I’m terrified of being ignored, or, worse, rejected. It would devastate me.
I guess it just confuses me why I am the way I am. I’m shy, introverted, and really afraid of rejection, and I can’t really change those fundamental aspects of myself without being someone who I’m not. Lithop is right, I wouldn’t sneeze at this diagnosis of schizotypal… psychiatrist didn’t just create the term out of haphazard fun. It really does truly mean that, due to my personality, it’s very hard to form relationships as naturally as someone who isn’t schizotypal. Think of it as an autistic person but someone who isn’t quite autistic… just unable to form relationships.
Obviously, I’m not going to throw in the towel. Finding a soulmate will always be a lifelong goal of mine, even if it’s really hard for me.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,798
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Just remember that even rejection is a form of assurance, and that one day you might be pleasantly surprised at how someone shows interest.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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