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InvisibleBenson
The Kidd ⭐


Registered: 09/29/20
Posts: 837
Hot take: America should abandon the party system fully and entirely * 1
    #28452338 - 08/30/23 12:01 PM (4 months, 26 days ago)

To preface I'll say I am not suggesting we change how elections work, or how candidates are qualified.

My primary thrust is this: I believe our binary "R" or "D" system is far too simplified for the nuanced problems of Americans that live very different experiences. The average voter is as uninformed as ever due to the ever-expanding list of issues, and frankly being busy trying to make ends meet and be happy. The result of this is many people defaulting to a single letter "R" or "D" because that's the team they're on and the team they know, regardless of policy. If we can no longer associate politicians with teams, I believe voters would develop a healthy distrust of all politicians, then have to build trust with a candidate they like, rather than trusting a candidate before they even know the candidate exists. This will lead to a more studious (I use that word generously) average voter and open the door for candidates that have policies that span the isle.

Personally, I'm as progressive as they come. Live and let live to the fullest, so long as you're not hurting others. However I do agree with few select conservative opinions. It pains me that the "D" party turns its nose up at those opinions because they come from "R", and vice versa. I feel to participate in this system I'm forced to pick between two shit teams who have a higher interest in beating the other team through policy division and culture wars rather than helping my community and my country.

Both institutions are corrupt to the core, but that's another story.

Remove all party affiliation from all candidates and let the best man/woman with the best ideas win (or, more likely the most charismatic).


What do yall big pimps think? Will I win a nobel prize?


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 9 hours, 43 minutes
Re: Hot take: America should abandon the party system fully and entirely [Re: Benson]
    #28452357 - 08/30/23 12:18 PM (4 months, 26 days ago)

I don’t think removing the D and R next to someone’s name is gonna change the ideological status quo in DC, nor will it prevent people from caucusing together based on ideological beliefs and goals.

I think it may open the door slightly wider for insurgent thought, like socialists, but we’re far past the point of being able to remedy this.


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InvisibleBenson
The Kidd ⭐


Registered: 09/29/20
Posts: 837
Re: Hot take: America should abandon the party system fully and entirely [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28452378 - 08/30/23 12:36 PM (4 months, 26 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I don’t think removing the D and R next to someone’s name is gonna change the ideological status quo in DC, nor will it prevent people from caucusing together based on ideological beliefs and goals.

I think it may open the door slightly wider for insurgent thought, like socialists, but we’re far past the point of being able to remedy this.




I agree about changing the status quo; this is a pie-in-the-sky idea that wouldn't ever work in reality of course. In fact its a good thing that people come together on ideological beliefs, I just think that we're pigeonholed into 2 whereas I believe more options would be better.


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OfflineJacubey
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Registered: 08/19/20
Posts: 258
Last seen: 1 hour, 22 minutes
Re: Hot take: America should abandon the party system fully and entirely [Re: Benson] * 1
    #28452420 - 08/30/23 01:25 PM (4 months, 26 days ago)

The party thing is a by product of first-past-the-post voting like we do in the US.

Literally just adding rank choice voting would remove the 2 party dichotomy.


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Invisiblechopstick
nobody
Male


Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 5,076
Loc: Chin's Wok
Re: Hot take: America should abandon the party system fully and entirely [Re: Benson] * 2
    #28452425 - 08/30/23 01:34 PM (4 months, 26 days ago)

Ecstatic is right. We have long been past the point of no return.

Washington DC is ruled by a group of psychotic, insane parasites that control not only the government but also all of the main levers of power in the country. Anybody whom challenges their power is ruthlessly targeted until they are destroyed.

They also control a large empire which seeks the domination of the entire planet as well as the human race as a whole.

Under these conditions, it would take nothing short of a miracle to save the country. There needs to be a mass awakening of some sort, but with the mass media controlling the narrative and making people arrogant and stupid, good luck with that.

The situation is actually rather dire. But most people are not aware of it and live their lives in an uncaring daze. It will be a shock to them when this all comes crashing down.

The problem these elites face is that their goal - to dominate the world - is nigh impossible for them to achieve, and at the same time, if they do not achieve it eventually - then their own empire will inevitably come crashing down as well, as this is the ultimate fate of all such empires, as has *always* been the case throughout history. It will not be different this time.

They can't subjugate Russia or China or Iran, and at the same time opposition to them is growing across Africa, Latin America and the Middle East. They *might* end up triggering a nuclear war, but even in that case they will simply destroy the planet, not control it. Their empire is doomed no matter how you slice it. It will fall. They can't save it, they can only destroy things and take down some innocent people with them as they near their end.

When their empire comes crashing down, it will have serious destabilizing effects on American society. What exactly will happen cannot be 100% predicted but it is a sure thing that there will be a period of dramatic upheaval at some point within our lifetimes.

Until then, live your best life and try to stay prepared. Good Luck.


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InvisibleBenson
The Kidd ⭐


Registered: 09/29/20
Posts: 837
Re: Hot take: America should abandon the party system fully and entirely [Re: chopstick]
    #28452437 - 08/30/23 01:46 PM (4 months, 26 days ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
Ecstatic is right. We have long been past the point of no return.

Washington DC is ruled by a group of psychotic, insane parasites that control not only the government but also all of the main levers of power in the country. Anybody whom challenges their power is ruthlessly targeted until they are destroyed.

They also control a large empire which seeks the domination of the entire planet as well as the human race as a whole.

Under these conditions, it would take nothing short of a miracle to save the country. There needs to be a mass awakening of some sort, but with the mass media controlling the narrative and making people arrogant and stupid, good luck with that.

The situation is actually rather dire. But most people are not aware of it and live their lives in an uncaring daze. It will be a shock to them when this all comes crashing down.

The problem these elites face is that their goal - to dominate the world - is nigh impossible for them to achieve, and at the same time, if they do not achieve it eventually - then their own empire will inevitably come crashing down as well, as this is the ultimate fate of all such empires, as has *always* been the case throughout history. It will not be different this time.

They can't subjugate Russia or China or Iran, and at the same time opposition to them is growing across Africa, Latin America and the Middle East. They *might* end up triggering a nuclear war, but even in that case they will simply destroy the planet, not control it. Their empire is doomed no matter how you slice it. It will fall. They can't save it, they can only destroy things and take down some innocent people with them as they near their end.

When their empire comes crashing down, it will have serious destabilizing effects on American society. What exactly will happen cannot be 100% predicted but it is a sure thing that there will be a period of dramatic upheaval at some point within our lifetimes.

Until then, live your best life and try to stay prepared. Good Luck.




I agree with like 99% of this wholeheartedly. Especially:

Quote:

Under these conditions, it would take nothing short of a miracle to save the country. There needs to be a mass awakening of some sort, but with the mass media controlling the narrative and making people arrogant and stupid, good luck with that.




I believe this will truly be the mechanism of our undoing. The powers that be control the narrative such that they will remain the powers that be. Nothing short of alien invasion/divine intervention could change that, and something tells me even those events would somehow get politicized into the narrative.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
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Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,459
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 3 hours, 6 minutes
Re: Hot take: America should abandon the party system fully and entirely [Re: chopstick]
    #28452441 - 08/30/23 01:51 PM (4 months, 26 days ago)

That's why we need to elect Trump.

(:cookiemonster:)


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleBenson
The Kidd ⭐


Registered: 09/29/20
Posts: 837
Re: Hot take: America should abandon the party system fully and entirely [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28452444 - 08/30/23 01:53 PM (4 months, 26 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
That's why we need to elect Trump.

(:cookiemonster:)




Honestly if it just means failing faster to approach the necessary revolution, I'm for it. In fact we deserve it.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 9 hours, 43 minutes
Re: Hot take: America should abandon the party system fully and entirely [Re: Benson] * 1
    #28452447 - 08/30/23 01:56 PM (4 months, 26 days ago)

Accelerationism has its merits but imo breaking the system doesn’t always result in something better, it often results in something far worse.


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InvisibleBenson
The Kidd ⭐


Registered: 09/29/20
Posts: 837
Re: Hot take: America should abandon the party system fully and entirely [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28452462 - 08/30/23 02:20 PM (4 months, 26 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Accelerationism has its merits but imo breaking the system doesn’t always result in something better, it often results in something far worse.




I can't argue against that. I definitely do not have the answers but it's clear whatever is happening is grossly unsustainable and nothing less than a monumental effort will change the course.

Not even being contentious, what do you think the best course forward is?


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 9 hours, 43 minutes
Re: Hot take: America should abandon the party system fully and entirely [Re: Benson]
    #28452480 - 08/30/23 02:41 PM (4 months, 26 days ago)

I think the answer to that question all depends on your material conditions.

For a white dude living in the imperial core, I have the luxury of saying “eh let’s wait it out and see what happens,” because there’s hardly any incentive for me to demand immediate action. Beyond that, I have a comfortable suburban life. Someone who’s door dashing 70 hours a week to afford their insulin so they don’t die might have a shorter timeline for change.


To answer your question seriously: there’s nothing to be done. The current paradigm is killing the ecosystem too quick, its power too entrenched, that any meaningful attempt to challenge will likely result in a nuclear war.

Maybe China will 18 dimensional chess their way to global hegemon in the next decade, enact global communism by the barrel of a gun, and save us. We have a better chance of Cthulhu showing up.


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InvisibleBenson
The Kidd ⭐


Registered: 09/29/20
Posts: 837
Re: Hot take: America should abandon the party system fully and entirely [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #28452515 - 08/30/23 03:26 PM (4 months, 26 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I think the answer to that question all depends on your material conditions.

For a white dude living in the imperial core, I have the luxury of saying “eh let’s wait it out and see what happens,” because there’s hardly any incentive for me to demand immediate action. Beyond that, I have a comfortable suburban life. Someone who’s door dashing 70 hours a week to afford their insulin so they don’t die might have a shorter timeline for change.


To answer your question seriously: there’s nothing to be done. The current paradigm is killing the ecosystem too quick, its power too entrenched, that any meaningful attempt to challenge will likely result in a nuclear war.

Maybe China will 18 dimensional chess their way to global hegemon in the next decade, enact global communism by the barrel of a gun, and save us. We have a better chance of Cthulhu showing up.




I appreciate your candor. Ride this bitch til the wheels fall off


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Offlinerxb
n00b-sabot
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Registered: 08/24/13
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Re: Hot take: America should abandon the party system fully and entirely [Re: Benson]
    #28453172 - 08/31/23 06:45 AM (4 months, 25 days ago)

i agree with the person who said ranked choice is a good solution to fix the problem.

have a screen and ask people to pick the candidate they like the best, when they do remove that candidate until there is no one left on the screen.

then in the first round the least voted for person is removed, and their highest ranked candidate remaining is given a point.

this is repeated in rounds until there is 1 true winner.

which is everyones least worst choice.

fucking democracy in action.


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->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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InvisibleBenson
The Kidd ⭐


Registered: 09/29/20
Posts: 837
Re: Hot take: America should abandon the party system fully and entirely [Re: rxb]
    #28453712 - 08/31/23 02:53 PM (4 months, 25 days ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
i agree with the person who said ranked choice is a good solution to fix the problem.

have a screen and ask people to pick the candidate they like the best, when they do remove that candidate until there is no one left on the screen.

then in the first round the least voted for person is removed, and their highest ranked candidate remaining is given a point.

this is repeated in rounds until there is 1 true winner.

which is everyones least worst choice.

fucking democracy in action.




See this is some shit I can get behind.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
modboy
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Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,256
Loc: where?
Re: Hot take: America should abandon the party system fully and entirely [Re: Benson]
    #28454638 - 09/01/23 07:52 AM (4 months, 24 days ago)

sounds like american idol rules:rolleyes:


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,459
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Re: Hot take: America should abandon the party system fully and entirely [Re: mushboy]
    #28454658 - 09/01/23 08:23 AM (4 months, 24 days ago)

Direct democracy sucks.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 9 hours, 43 minutes
Re: Hot take: America should abandon the party system fully and entirely [Re: SirTripAlot] * 2
    #28454708 - 09/01/23 09:18 AM (4 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Direct democracy sucks.




Did the people we cede our autonomy to tell you that


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
Universally Loathed and Reviled
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Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,795
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Hot take: America should abandon the party system fully and entirely [Re: rxb] * 1
    #28454717 - 09/01/23 09:27 AM (4 months, 24 days ago)

Ranked choice voting would be better than first past the post but it's going to take a lot to get there.  Inertia is baked into the system and it's not in the interest of anyone who currently holds power.


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Offlinerxb
n00b-sabot
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Registered: 08/24/13
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Re: Hot take: America should abandon the party system fully and entirely [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #28455038 - 09/01/23 03:15 PM (4 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Direct democracy sucks.




examples? hell you could even elaborate.

or do you mean just like... "chocolate cake sucks"

id like to discuss where you are coming from with this.

how many forms of it have you experienced?


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
modboy
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Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,256
Loc: where?
Re: Hot take: America should abandon the party system fully and entirely [Re: rxb]
    #28455183 - 09/01/23 05:29 PM (4 months, 24 days ago)

I’ve lived in parts of this country where direct democracy would more than likely lead to slavery.


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