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morrowasted
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: imachavel]
#28451155 - 08/29/23 01:07 PM (4 months, 28 days ago) |
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imachavel said:
Quote:
morrowasted said: Worlds largest medical center actually, and I go to a lot of different hospitals through a staffing agency, not just one. Haven't had a COVID patient in a long time. I can't even remember. At least six months. But the thing is the hospitals systematically avoid testing people for it. So there could be people who have it and just don't know it but even if they do they're not sick in the way folks getting covid-19 were. I honestly think it's even misleading to keep calling the cold that's caused by the presently circulating sars cov 2 viruses COVID-19. It just makes a confusing mess of things for the future. The best thing policy makers can do is just be very open about COVID19 not being an acute problem anymore (over and above what we consider an acceptable fact of life) so that they don't lose any more trust, because there will be another pandemic
Why do they avoid testing for it?
When do you think the next pandemic will be?
Well I guess what I mean is you said "because there will be another pandemic."
Did you mean there will be another pandemic like as in "there's going to be another one for sure" or did you mean there will be another pandemic as in "policymakers don't want people to think there will be another one."
Remember how I kept trying to say that hospitals were going broke because of covid? And I guess a lot of people just thought they were making money hand over fist? Well simply put I was right and they were wrong. Even here some of the best previously physician owned hospitals essentially sold out to private equity because they were being faced with bankruptcy.
Covid doesn't make money. It burns money. It's better not to find out if a patient has covid because if you find out you're probably going to lose money on them.
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imachavel
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted]
#28451204 - 08/29/23 01:50 PM (4 months, 28 days ago) |
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HOLY SHIT!
That actually kind of explains a lot
--------------------
I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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morrowasted
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: imachavel]
#28451238 - 08/29/23 02:27 PM (4 months, 28 days ago) |
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Conspiracies are usually much simpler and less dramatic than you think. Unless you already follow the money trail before doing anything else, of course.
United Health Group and Hospital Corporation of America* are homogenizing the healthcare landscape everywhere you look- in a way that's good for them and bad for me and you. They look on rapaciously as hospitals approach bankruptcy. They fix drug prices as often as they can get away with, which is a lot and more every day, by being their own pharmacy benefits manager in the form of an umbrella company OptumRx.
*Two different organizations
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budmanman
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted]
#28451258 - 08/29/23 02:53 PM (4 months, 28 days ago) |
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Sounds like a scam but if it even saved just 1 life it was worth it.
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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morrowasted
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: budmanman]
#28451274 - 08/29/23 03:14 PM (4 months, 28 days ago) |
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It's very much a scam just not the one that you likely have in mind. Unless you think private equity created a virus in order to bankrupt hospitals just so they could buy them and squeeze money out of them.
Is evil as I think these people are I highly doubt that.
It's just private equity doing what private equity does. It became worth it for them to buy the hospitals because their alternative was bankruptcy and the price was right. They don't give a shit about the healthcare industry when they cant make money from it
If I wanted to be careful with my words I would say racketeering rather than scam. All the Medicare advantage I would feel comfortable calling a scam
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RJ Tubs 202



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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: viraldrome]
#28451279 - 08/29/23 03:19 PM (4 months, 28 days ago) |
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viraldrome said:
Worst thing about covid is how much it created militant anti maskers who will for sure cause problems during any future respiratory disease pandemics.
Put a lot of blame on the radical militant media personalities and citizens who spread hysterical anger and ridiculous misinformation - all in the name of "following the science". When you spread bullshit, don't be surprised what comes back at you. So many Covid lies. So much bullshit propaganda. There are consequences.
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morrowasted
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#28451281 - 08/29/23 03:22 PM (4 months, 28 days ago) |
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Pot kettle black
Science wouldn't need to exist if the average person walking around already knew everything.
Yes most of the things that have been proposed in science turned out to be 'wrong'. But think about any given topic. Were they less wrong than you (would be, if you even tried)? If you had never taken a physics course could you have come up with a better theory than newton? If you had been in the hospital could you have saved more lives than the average doctor/nurse?
One side of the media was spreading disinformation far more intentionally than the other. For the same reason that private equity bought up hospitals when the market was right. Their market is people who prefer fantastical fears to realistic ones.
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budmanman
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted]
#28451298 - 08/29/23 03:35 PM (4 months, 28 days ago) |
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Didn't the doctors and nurses use ventilators that actually for most patients kill them more than it helped them?
Seems like a homeless person could have been a better doctor than the doctors at the stary of the scamdemic
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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RJ Tubs 202



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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted]
#28451304 - 08/29/23 03:39 PM (4 months, 28 days ago) |
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It's hilarious when NPR and The Atlantic promote "pandemic amnesty" and "forgiveness" instead of exposing the lies the media and the government spread. They passionately do NOT want to talk about it. NPR says, "Let's focus on the future and call for grace." What a fucking joke.
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feevers



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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: budmanman] 1
#28451309 - 08/29/23 03:46 PM (4 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
budmanman said: Didn't the doctors and nurses use ventilators that actually for most patients kill them more than it helped them?
Seems like a homeless person could have been a better doctor than the doctors at the stary of the scamdemic
No, dumb people just twisted the fact that people with bad enough COVID to need a ventilator were very likely to die, to mean that ventilators killed people. It's like saying CPR kills more people than it saves.
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feevers



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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#28451316 - 08/29/23 03:51 PM (4 months, 27 days ago) |
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RJ Tubs 202 said: Put a lot of blame on the radical militant media personalities and citizens who spread hysterical anger and ridiculous misinformation - all in the name of "following the science". When you spread bullshit, don't be surprised what comes back at you. So many Covid lies. So much bullshit propaganda. There are consequences.
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: It's hilarious when NPR and The Atlantic promote "pandemic amnesty" and "forgiveness" instead of exposing the lies the media and the government spread. They passionately do NOT want to talk about it. NPR says, "Let's focus on the future and call for grace." What a fucking joke.
I like all the examples you cited, your argument must be bulletproof
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RJ Tubs 202



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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: feevers]
#28451318 - 08/29/23 03:54 PM (4 months, 27 days ago) |
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I made a couple of points. I don't mean to imply I am omniscient.
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budmanman
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: feevers]
#28451332 - 08/29/23 04:08 PM (4 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
feevers said:
Quote:
budmanman said: Didn't the doctors and nurses use ventilators that actually for most patients kill them more than it helped them?
Seems like a homeless person could have been a better doctor than the doctors at the stary of the scamdemic
No, dumb people just twisted the fact that people with bad enough COVID to need a ventilator were very likely to die, to mean that ventilators killed people. It's like saying CPR kills more people than it saves.
What are your thoughts Morrowasted? Did the vents do more harm than good early on or are things being twisted.
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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imachavel
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: feevers]
#28451342 - 08/29/23 04:25 PM (4 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
feevers said:
Quote:
budmanman said: Didn't the doctors and nurses use ventilators that actually for most patients kill them more than it helped them?
Seems like a homeless person could have been a better doctor than the doctors at the stary of the scamdemic
No, dumb people just twisted the fact that people with bad enough COVID to need a ventilator were very likely to die, to mean that ventilators killed people. It's like saying CPR kills more people than it saves.
CPR is the kind of thing that you're willing to perform on a person and take the risk that you pump their chest too much and crack a few ribs. Once the person's heart has stopped you can't make it much worse.
Obviously you were using this as an analogy but even as an analogy. I guess I was just adding to the irony of that analogy.
So who's up for a 2 month quarantine lockdown?
Quote:
budmanman said:
Quote:
feevers said:
Quote:
budmanman said: Didn't the doctors and nurses use ventilators that actually for most patients kill them more than it helped them?
Seems like a homeless person could have been a better doctor than the doctors at the stary of the scamdemic
No, dumb people just twisted the fact that people with bad enough COVID to need a ventilator were very likely to die, to mean that ventilators killed people. It's like saying CPR kills more people than it saves.
What are your thoughts Morrowasted? Did the vents do more harm than good early on or are things being twisted.
Does pumping a person's chest to perform CPR and possibly cracking a few ribs do more harm to the patient than good? Considering that you are pumping their chest to pump their heart?
If a person is messed up from covid and can't breathe and has tons of lung infections and possibly being treated with antibiotics that don't work anymore that have created antibiotic resistant bacteria or what have you in whatever scenario possibly going to be worse from being on a ventilator?
I suppose I just gave the worst case scenario. The scenario gave was more of a person that can't breathe and probably will never be able to again.
If a person can't breathe is breathing for them with a ventilator going to make them worse?
--------------------
I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
Edited by imachavel (08/29/23 04:29 PM)
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morrowasted
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: budmanman]
#28451344 - 08/29/23 04:28 PM (4 months, 27 days ago) |
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budmanman said: Didn't the doctors and nurses use ventilators that actually for most patients kill them more than it helped them?
First of all we'll never know the answer to that question for sure. Some people, myself included, believe that if covid patients had been managed from the very beginning in light of what was learned about how to treat covid over years, their outcomes would have been better. I feel like that's the case for any disease
Basically, when a patient stops breathing, or you can tell that they're about to stop breathing, you have just a couple of minutes to do something. The staff were and still are stretched very thin and struggling to keep up with PPE protocols, and if you intubate somebody you have two alternatives: manually ventilating them, with your hand, or mechanically ventilating them. it the idea that there could have been enough staff to individually do manual ventilation and frequent spontaneous breathing trials for every patient that went into respiratory failure is just absurd. Especially when you realize that intubating somebody is basically the readiest way to expose yourself to whatever respiratory virus they have. Healthcare workers are people too and therefore they care about their own lives as well. They were afraid specifically because they were witness to what the virus could do. We are not paid actors
Nobody who actually worked with covid patients during the pandemic believes that those patients would have been better off or even anywhere close to as well off as they were if all the doctors and nurses had been swapped out for random unmedically educated and practiced people. We were trying all sorts of stuff in the beginning including IV vitamin C and the fact of the matter is it was just a really bad disease at that time and it's not anymore. For exactly the reasons I told you it wouldn't be after a period of time
You can come up with whatever kind of fantasy you want if the facts bore or fail to validate you
Edited by morrowasted (08/29/23 04:34 PM)
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morrowasted
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted] 2
#28451351 - 08/29/23 04:40 PM (4 months, 27 days ago) |
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.Quote:
If a person is messed up from covid and can't breathe and has tons of lung infections and possibly being treated with antibiotics that don't work anymore that have created antibiotic resistant bacteria or what have you in whatever scenario possibly going to be worse from being on a ventilator?
basically with most cases of acute respiratory distress syndrome you would intubate and mechanically ventilate in considering a certain set of objective signs, primarily rate of oxygen desaturation. After a period of time it was determined that covid patients fared a little bit better if the specific value range that determined whether or not a patient should be intubated were somewhat lower than the general reference value for ARDS. Also the respiratory distress of some patients may not have deteriorated to the point where they needed ventilation if things like proning had been done sooner and more frequently.
Having seen what I've seen and knowing what I know I just can't help but laugh anytime some random person tries to suggest that things would have been better if they'd 'been in charge.'
If this disease had hit 50 years ago, and people were just as chronically ill 50 years ago as they are now, the outcomes would have been so much worse. But they still would have been so much better than they would be if healthcare were rendered by people without medical education/practice
Right now you will see deteriorating outcomes anywhere you look in the hospital systems because despite the fact that all the workers there have the education and credentials they have very little practice. Those who do have practice are throwing up their hands en masse and giving up. One of the reasons they're doing it is because they're exasperated with the way the patient caregiver dynamic has changed. I guess mostly because of the internet people walk around with an extremely inflated sense of their capabilities
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feevers



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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted]
#28451355 - 08/29/23 04:44 PM (4 months, 27 days ago) |
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I'd guess like 1% of people talking about the ventilator conspiracy actually had any idea what a ventilator did and in what specific circumstances it was used
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bodhisatta 
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted]
#28451361 - 08/29/23 04:47 PM (4 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said: .Quote:
If a person is messed up from covid and can't breathe and has tons of lung infections and possibly being treated with antibiotics that don't work anymore that have created antibiotic resistant bacteria or what have you in whatever scenario possibly going to be worse from being on a ventilator?
basically with most cases of acute respiratory distress syndrome you would intubate and mechanically ventilate in considering a certain set of objective signs, primarily rate of oxygen desaturation. After a period of time it was determined that covid patients fared a little bit better if the specific value range that determined whether or not a patient should be intubated were somewhat lower than the general reference value for ARDS. Also the respiratory distress of some patients may not have deteriorated to the point where they needed ventilation if things like proning had been done sooner and more frequently.
Having seen what I've seen and knowing what I know I just can't help but laugh anytime some random person tries to suggest that things would have been better if they'd 'been in charge.'
If this disease had hit 50 years ago, and people were just as chronically ill 50 years ago as they are now, the outcomes would have been so much worse. But they still would have been so much better than they would be if healthcare were rendered by people without medical education/practice
Right now you will see deteriorating outcomes anywhere you look in the hospital systems because despite the fact that all the workers there have the education and credentials they have very little practice. Those who do have practice are throwing up their hands en masse and giving up. One of the reasons they're doing it is because they're exasperated with the way the patient caregiver dynamic has changed. I guess mostly because of the internet people walk around with an extremely inflated sense of their capabilities
Every person in healthcare that I know is absolutely fucking sick of maga idiots.
To the point some people I know retired early. My old landlady quit radiology and retired early because of people's behavior. The brain drain is real. Conservatives are absolutely fucking the country left right up down sideways and probably a few other ways too
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morrowasted
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted]
#28451366 - 08/29/23 04:50 PM (4 months, 27 days ago) |
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My mom still can't get the words respirator and ventilator straight and both of her children are medical workers.
If you put 100 people into a room full of ventilators and CPAP/BiPAPs and ECMOs, how many do you think would even be able to tell you what the machines are, much less which is which, much less be able to do anything useful with any of them? I graduated valedictorian from my state's top nursing school and I have been a nurse for years and dealing with those kinds of machines will never not intimidate me. That's one of the many reasons why I would never do ICU again.
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feevers



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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted] 1
#28451370 - 08/29/23 04:52 PM (4 months, 27 days ago) |
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I liked when elon musk claimed to have donated thousands of ventilators to hospitals when really they were like defective bipaps and cpaps that he was sitting on
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