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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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The Official BRICS Discussion Thread
    #28447180 - 08/26/23 09:08 AM (4 months, 30 days ago)

Could’ve sworn we had one of these already but I guess not. Let this be the place to discuss the emerging economic and trade alliance between Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa, and the implications therein.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRICS


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28447192 - 08/26/23 09:18 AM (4 months, 30 days ago)

I’ll go ahead and chime in with the latest news: the offering of decoder rings to six new nations at the BRICS summit in Johannesburg (Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Iran, Egypt, Ethiopia, and Argentina).



https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/program/counting-the-cost/2023/8/26/brics-is-expanding-but-can-it-rebalance-the-world-order



With no official charter, it’s tough to say just what BRICS expects to achieve, or what its goals are. Informally, it is widely regarded as an alternative economic paradigm to the dominance of the U.S./EU/Japan. Brazil’s Lula de Silva has made multiple calls for a new global currency since his re-election, and that appears to be a major goal of the alliance.

With the group representing over half of global GDP, its power, although fledgling, may soon constitute a serious threat to the current global economic paradigm.

What are y’all’s thoughts? Growing power or paper tiger? Would nations like China be shooting themselves in the foot by diminishing the power of the dollar? Should the current order even be challenged, considering membership that includes unsavory, racist regimes like the gulf monarchies and Modi and the Hindutva in India? How does this growing alliance affect current crises like Ukraine?


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OfflineIce9
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Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28447241 - 08/26/23 10:23 AM (4 months, 30 days ago)

My thoughts on BRICS -- All hot air and much ado about nothing UNLESS -

India and China adopt a common currency similar to the Euro and replace their currencies with it.  This would end the dollars dominance of international trade and world reserve currency.

That won't ever happen though, as neither country wants to cede control over their own currencies, and it is a lack of trust that these two countries won't manipulate their currencies in ways harmful to others that prevent further adoption of them.


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: Ice9]
    #28447247 - 08/26/23 10:28 AM (4 months, 30 days ago)

If there was going to be a currency to replace the dollar, it would have been the euro. It’s not gonna happen


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28447288 - 08/26/23 11:05 AM (4 months, 30 days ago)

Its an uphill fight, I see no tangible way forward as most of this is a pipedream...its all planning at this stage. Are these respective countries going to drop thier own individual currencies? Are they goung to adopt something like the Euro? I havent seen shit regarding this.

If not, this doesn't seem like a currency at all but a  back door payment processing scheme to avoid using the dollar. Ask Russia how  getting around SWIFT is working out.Are they going to have a credit rating agency? An institution similar to the FED? If not, they will surely fail as this is a major tenant of ANY notable central banking system. There has to be command and control, so to speak.

I did read that they have made a "New Development Bank" for BRICs...they started giving out pretty aggressive loans. But guess where they had to borrow the money? Wall Street, i.e. in dollars....so the institution that was designed to de dollar the world, is now heavily dependent on the dollar itself? Turns out 2/3 of everything BRICs is because of the dollar itself....because of this:

"..... the New Development Bank was told that interest on any new loans could quadruple, and the premium the bank charges its members to borrow has doubled, shrinking loan disbursements to a trickle..."

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/currencies/brics-bank-china-dollar-dominance-debt-ukraine-war-russia-dedollarization-2023-6


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (08/26/23 11:14 AM)


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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28447314 - 08/26/23 11:29 AM (4 months, 30 days ago)

Argentina has 100% inflation and they just let them in?


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: koods]
    #28447329 - 08/26/23 11:48 AM (4 months, 30 days ago)

I guess,  additionially Xi from the PRC, just skipped last week's BRICs meeting, abruptly. Looks like China is starting to feel their own economic heat, why bother with this payment processing scheme for the moment. Putin was even there, albeit virtually.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: koods]
    #28447405 - 08/26/23 12:50 PM (4 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
My thoughts on BRICS -- All hot air and much ado about nothing UNLESS -

India and China adopt a common currency similar to the Euro and replace their currencies with it.  This would end the dollars dominance of international trade and world reserve currency.

That won't ever happen though, as neither country wants to cede control over their own currencies, and it is a lack of trust that these two countries won't manipulate their currencies in ways harmful to others that prevent further adoption of them.




I’m not sure about won’t ever happen, but I agree that people dreaming about the yuan replacing the dollar as the global reserve currency aren’t being realistic at all, China has considerable control of their monetary system, they won’t give that up.

Quote:

koods said:
If there was going to be a currency to replace the dollar, it would have been the euro. It’s not gonna happen




I think it’s more about competing with the dollar, not unilaterally replacing it. It would need to be a gradual transition or else everyone loses.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28447409 - 08/26/23 12:52 PM (4 months, 30 days ago)

Right now, most of BRICs existence is due to the dollar, as in not just competing with it, but brick and motar.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (08/26/23 12:53 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28447572 - 08/26/23 03:50 PM (4 months, 30 days ago)

Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said this about BRICS:

✔️ Inviting any Western country to BRICS or to a BRICS event is ruled out.

✔️ The most important criterion for joining BRICS is that a potential BRICS member should not use illegal sanctions measures against any member of the BRICS.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlineprimordialkraken
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Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28447575 - 08/26/23 03:53 PM (4 months, 30 days ago)

Personal opinion is worth nothing, but, the ushering of the CBDC. That's all.


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28448030 - 08/27/23 05:54 AM (4 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said this about BRICS:

✔️ Inviting any Western country to BRICS or to a BRICS event is ruled out.

✔️ The most important criterion for joining BRICS is that a potential BRICS member should not use illegal sanctions measures against any member of the BRICS.




Sounds like a scheme to get away from feeling the heat of war crimes...


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: Sulfurshelfsean] * 1
    #28448229 - 08/27/23 09:40 AM (4 months, 29 days ago)

What heat? Nobody is held responsible for war crimes. Sanctions are imposed in a way that ALWAYS benefits “the west.” That’s why they aren’t allowed in BRICS.

Cuba should join.




Unrelated: here’s a video of former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright saying the deaths of 500,000 children in a Iraq (in order to force Saddam to give up WMDs he didn’t have) is “worth it”

si=CAgz8et9JEqMinba


Nobody is held responsible for war crimes, and nobody is held responsible for the crimes perpetrated with the ostensible purpose of punishing war crimes.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28448804 - 08/27/23 04:26 PM (4 months, 29 days ago)

I remember the UN was willing to trade oil for food and such, the offer was declined.Are you saying that these 500,000 deaths was a result of war and sanctions? This study said those figures were fabricated.

https://gh.bmj.com/content/2/2/e000311


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #28448863 - 08/27/23 05:11 PM (4 months, 29 days ago)

Whether it was 500,000 deaths or not isn’t the point, it’s that the US government decided 500,000 children deaths is worth imposing the sanctions (again, to ostensibly get Saddam to give up WMDs he didn’t have).

Imagine if Putin said this, people would lose their fucking minds.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28448929 - 08/27/23 06:18 PM (4 months, 29 days ago)

I agree to an extent, but not near your scale; first, it was also the UN not just the US that imposed the sanctions. A follow up offer for food and supplies tried to minimize the damage in which, Iraq declined. That is also on them....and Iraq doubled down by inflating mortality rates among children.

Trying to tiptoe and say no innocent life was lost is ridiculous and is not my point. What arbitrary line is "good"? Eight thousand deaths? Five hundred? There would be zero sanctions if it was entirely based on the loss of one human life. "What about the children?" would stop any war, and in a perfect world, yes, that is preferable but we humans are known for our proclivity for violence.

What makes these sanctions less palatable is the intelligence failure that makes this war less "acceptable". For example,the WW1 food blockade of Germany via Britian caused alot of hunger and sickness, but is more "justified".


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineIce9
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Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #28449237 - 08/27/23 11:55 PM (4 months, 29 days ago)

BRICS meeting ended with no agreement on a euro style currency and contradictory reasons for why


Seems what I said about India and China was prescient
https://www.yahoo.com/news/brics-summit-ended-no-currency-045430858.html

Also
Quote:

As this dollar alternative was being discussed, data from SWIFT showed the greenback was used for a record 46% of foreign exchange payments via the communications system in July.




--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: Ice9]
    #28449359 - 08/28/23 04:57 AM (4 months, 28 days ago)

Seems like BRICs has pushed more dollars to circulate through their loop.

Good job.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #28449368 - 08/28/23 05:38 AM (4 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
I agree to an extent, but not near your scale; first, it was also the UN not just the US that imposed the sanctions. A follow up offer for food and supplies tried to minimize the damage in which, Iraq declined. That is also on them....and Iraq doubled down by inflating mortality rates among children.

Trying to tiptoe and say no innocent life was lost is ridiculous and is not my point. What arbitrary line is "good"? Eight thousand deaths? Five hundred? There would be zero sanctions if it was entirely based on the loss of one human life. "What about the children?" would stop any war, and in a perfect world, yes, that is preferable but we humans are known for our proclivity for violence.

What makes these sanctions less palatable is the intelligence failure that makes this war less "acceptable". For example,the WW1 food blockade of Germany via Britian caused alot of hunger and sickness, but is more "justified".




I think you’re still missing the point, which is that sanctions don’t work, and cause unnecessary suffering for innocent people.

Arguing that a facet of BRICS is to prevent this type of behavior is a scheme to get away with war crimes (war crimes that historically are not prevented by sanctions in any way) is bullshit. Even if you want to take the most cynical view and say that Russia et al simply want an alternative trade system not accountable to Western standards on war crimes (a standard which does not exist by the way), you still have to explain how sanctions prevent war crimes (they don’t). They only cause more human suffering.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28449369 - 08/28/23 05:42 AM (4 months, 28 days ago)

If sanctions don't work, why is Russia trying to circumvent SWIFT?

It causes a clusterfuck for them, which is the point. Not every sanction works, but to make the blanket statement that they don't work at all, is not kosher.



--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (08/28/23 06:09 AM)


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