Home | Community | Message Board

World Seed Supply
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 13 hours, 34 minutes
The Official BRICS Discussion Thread
    #28447180 - 08/26/23 09:08 AM (4 months, 30 days ago)

Could’ve sworn we had one of these already but I guess not. Let this be the place to discuss the emerging economic and trade alliance between Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa, and the implications therein.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRICS


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 13 hours, 34 minutes
Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28447192 - 08/26/23 09:18 AM (4 months, 30 days ago)

I’ll go ahead and chime in with the latest news: the offering of decoder rings to six new nations at the BRICS summit in Johannesburg (Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Iran, Egypt, Ethiopia, and Argentina).



https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/program/counting-the-cost/2023/8/26/brics-is-expanding-but-can-it-rebalance-the-world-order



With no official charter, it’s tough to say just what BRICS expects to achieve, or what its goals are. Informally, it is widely regarded as an alternative economic paradigm to the dominance of the U.S./EU/Japan. Brazil’s Lula de Silva has made multiple calls for a new global currency since his re-election, and that appears to be a major goal of the alliance.

With the group representing over half of global GDP, its power, although fledgling, may soon constitute a serious threat to the current global economic paradigm.

What are y’all’s thoughts? Growing power or paper tiger? Would nations like China be shooting themselves in the foot by diminishing the power of the dollar? Should the current order even be challenged, considering membership that includes unsavory, racist regimes like the gulf monarchies and Modi and the Hindutva in India? How does this growing alliance affect current crises like Ukraine?


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 13 hours, 34 minutes
Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: koods]
    #28447405 - 08/26/23 12:50 PM (4 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
My thoughts on BRICS -- All hot air and much ado about nothing UNLESS -

India and China adopt a common currency similar to the Euro and replace their currencies with it.  This would end the dollars dominance of international trade and world reserve currency.

That won't ever happen though, as neither country wants to cede control over their own currencies, and it is a lack of trust that these two countries won't manipulate their currencies in ways harmful to others that prevent further adoption of them.




I’m not sure about won’t ever happen, but I agree that people dreaming about the yuan replacing the dollar as the global reserve currency aren’t being realistic at all, China has considerable control of their monetary system, they won’t give that up.

Quote:

koods said:
If there was going to be a currency to replace the dollar, it would have been the euro. It’s not gonna happen




I think it’s more about competing with the dollar, not unilaterally replacing it. It would need to be a gradual transition or else everyone loses.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 13 hours, 34 minutes
Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: Sulfurshelfsean] * 1
    #28448229 - 08/27/23 09:40 AM (4 months, 29 days ago)

What heat? Nobody is held responsible for war crimes. Sanctions are imposed in a way that ALWAYS benefits “the west.” That’s why they aren’t allowed in BRICS.

Cuba should join.




Unrelated: here’s a video of former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright saying the deaths of 500,000 children in a Iraq (in order to force Saddam to give up WMDs he didn’t have) is “worth it”

si=CAgz8et9JEqMinba


Nobody is held responsible for war crimes, and nobody is held responsible for the crimes perpetrated with the ostensible purpose of punishing war crimes.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 13 hours, 34 minutes
Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #28448863 - 08/27/23 05:11 PM (4 months, 29 days ago)

Whether it was 500,000 deaths or not isn’t the point, it’s that the US government decided 500,000 children deaths is worth imposing the sanctions (again, to ostensibly get Saddam to give up WMDs he didn’t have).

Imagine if Putin said this, people would lose their fucking minds.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 13 hours, 34 minutes
Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #28449368 - 08/28/23 05:38 AM (4 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
I agree to an extent, but not near your scale; first, it was also the UN not just the US that imposed the sanctions. A follow up offer for food and supplies tried to minimize the damage in which, Iraq declined. That is also on them....and Iraq doubled down by inflating mortality rates among children.

Trying to tiptoe and say no innocent life was lost is ridiculous and is not my point. What arbitrary line is "good"? Eight thousand deaths? Five hundred? There would be zero sanctions if it was entirely based on the loss of one human life. "What about the children?" would stop any war, and in a perfect world, yes, that is preferable but we humans are known for our proclivity for violence.

What makes these sanctions less palatable is the intelligence failure that makes this war less "acceptable". For example,the WW1 food blockade of Germany via Britian caused alot of hunger and sickness, but is more "justified".




I think you’re still missing the point, which is that sanctions don’t work, and cause unnecessary suffering for innocent people.

Arguing that a facet of BRICS is to prevent this type of behavior is a scheme to get away with war crimes (war crimes that historically are not prevented by sanctions in any way) is bullshit. Even if you want to take the most cynical view and say that Russia et al simply want an alternative trade system not accountable to Western standards on war crimes (a standard which does not exist by the way), you still have to explain how sanctions prevent war crimes (they don’t). They only cause more human suffering.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 13 hours, 34 minutes
Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: SirTripAlot] * 2
    #28449975 - 08/28/23 02:30 PM (4 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
If sanctions don't work, why is Russia trying to circumvent SWIFT?

It causes a clusterfuck for them, which is the point. Not every sanction works, but to make the blanket statement that they don't work at all, is not kosher.






Unless Russia’s response is to end its invasion of Ukraine then it isn’t working.

The explicit purpose of economic sanctions is to force the affected party to relent. Russia clearly is not, they’d rather build a parallel global systems of transactions than relent. So yeah.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 13 hours, 34 minutes
Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: koods] * 1
    #28450101 - 08/28/23 03:54 PM (4 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
So no.
The response is to make it more difficult for the state to operate. Supply the war machine, financial stability, balance of trade, etc.If sanctions stopped most wars, one bullet would not be fired.

Let's not forget that this is not a unilaterial US action you seem to pose. The EU itself has thrown its hat in the ring. There is a consensus among nations for this.

Does the  rouble losing 30% of its value make it easier or harder to conduct a war?




Right so we agree that sanctions don’t work.

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
If sanctions don't work, why is Russia trying to circumvent SWIFT?

It causes a clusterfuck for them, which is the point. Not every sanction works, but to make the blanket statement that they don't work at all, is not kosher.






Unless Russia’s response is to end its invasion of Ukraine then it isn’t working.

The explicit purpose of economic sanctions is to force the affected party to relent. Russia clearly is not, they’d rather build a parallel global systems of transactions than relent. So yeah.




Sanctions also make it harder for Russia to be successful. There’s no doubt that without sanctions and western support for Ukraine, Russia would have finished off Ukraine in a few months at most.




I would say western support for Ukraine amounts to 90+% of that. It’s not like the Russian government is just going to say “welp this is hurting the populace, I guess we should do what Washington says.”

DPRK, Iran, Cuba, some of the most heavily sanctioned states on the planet, and all it does is give their governments a bogeyman to blame the resulting instability on.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 13 hours, 34 minutes
Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: gww] * 1
    #28450206 - 08/28/23 05:09 PM (4 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

gww said:
On the other hand, those same sanctions make it where the western support means something to some of the other countries that might not care about the stuff iran or north korea does.  Those countries may look at iran and say yes, not us if we have to decide who to snub.  The ninty percent support you mention might have less meaning with out them.




Well of course, that’s how it works in reality.

We punish the countries that won’t toe the line and other countries see that and react accordingly. It’s the same reason the mafia kills informants in a public place with 300 gunshot wounds.

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Nice dodge.

Again, sanctions are not a zero sum game.





Never said they were.


Quote:

Ice9 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
If sanctions don't work, why is Russia trying to circumvent SWIFT?

It causes a clusterfuck for them, which is the point. Not every sanction works, but to make the blanket statement that they don't work at all, is not kosher.






Unless Russia’s response is to end its invasion of Ukraine then it isn’t working.

The explicit purpose of economic sanctions is to force the affected party to relent. Russia clearly is not, they’d rather build a parallel global systems of transactions than relent. So yeah.



Sanctions are a tool of pressure.  Alone, they won't make any country such as Russia, abandon a course of action.  They do inhibit said course of action, which despite your claims, is the intention.  Widespread sanctions shows the country against whom they are aimed, that the international community as whole condemns the behavior.  It may not be super effective, but abandoning a tool simply because it is not blunt enough is foolish.




The “international community” isn’t on board, and those that are, are typically only on board insofar as they don’t want us being punitive to them as well, as is the case with Iran. Even still, ostensible allies like India and UAE are doing business with Russia, in rubles.

Quote:

gww said:
My understanding is that during world war 2 germany started with high production of war materials.  We ramped up and then surpassed them.  One of the reasons that was accomplished was because many of germany's trade got curtailed and ours did not.  The only thing that that can be construed as is sanctions and it was the sanctions that held the out come.  Even with them, it did not end in one year or instantaneous.




Germany lost because they didn’t have the level of imperial subjects the allies did. Same goes for Japan.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 13 hours, 34 minutes
Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #28450207 - 08/28/23 05:11 PM (4 months, 28 days ago)

Don’t want to get this thread too derailed, so suffice to say that we all know (whether some want to admit it or not) that sanctions are almost always imposed because a country is doing something the West doesn’t like, it has zero basis in morality or international law or war crimes, seeing as how we partner with some of the most egregiously bloodthirsty actors on the planet.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 13 hours, 34 minutes
Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28450259 - 08/28/23 05:47 PM (4 months, 28 days ago)

Welcome to the realm of implicit purposes, we’ve been expecting you.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 13 hours, 34 minutes
Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #28450266 - 08/28/23 05:51 PM (4 months, 28 days ago)

Whatever dude I’m not going to argue semantics with you over the stated reasons of imposing sanctions.

We all know why they do it, we all know they never achieve the stated goals.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 13 hours, 34 minutes
Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28450280 - 08/28/23 05:59 PM (4 months, 28 days ago)



--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 13 hours, 34 minutes
Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #28461459 - 09/07/23 11:49 AM (4 months, 18 days ago)

Dollar isn’t going away anytime soon and anyone that thinks it is is fooling themselves.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 13 hours, 34 minutes
Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28461729 - 09/07/23 05:26 PM (4 months, 18 days ago)

Circumstances would have to change DRASTICALLY.

Even in some scenario where BRICS becomes a formidable trade alliance and some new currency begins to chip away at the USD, doesn’t matter, the dollar is staying the reserve currency because the nations with all the spending power are using it, and won’t opt for an alternative.

Europe would have to collapse and get saved by Russia and China or some shit for the dollar to be legitimately threatened.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 13 hours, 34 minutes
Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: mushboy]
    #28603131 - 12/30/23 09:22 AM (28 days, 15 hours ago)

Depends on the level of psychopathy our leaders at that time have. Definitely not trending in an optimistic direction. Would we blow up the world rather than diminish? No other declining hegemon ever had the capability so you can’t really look at precedence, but the Dutch, Spanish, French, British all took it in stride.

I think capitalism would want to keep the game going, rather than flipping the table over, but these aren’t purely rational actors at the top, especially the morons they put into power to protect their interests. It would not be hard to convince Westerners that we have no choice but to nuke Beijing otherwise it’ll be white slavery.


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,357
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 13 hours, 34 minutes
Re: The Official BRICS Discussion Thread [Re: christopera]
    #28604318 - 12/31/23 08:22 AM (27 days, 16 hours ago)

Argentina in the middle of Alt+F4’ing their entire state


--------------------


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* The Official Ukraine War Thread.
( 1 2 3 4 ... 1433 1434 )
nooneman 280,518 28,666 01/28/24 12:44 AM
by GenesisCorrupted
* Saudi Arabia to join BRICS???
( 1 2 3 4 ... 12 13 all )
Falcon91Wolvrn03 3,243 242 12/01/22 08:44 AM
by Kickle
* Prominent barking moonbats who don't buy official 9/11 story ekomstop 1,145 4 10/29/04 03:32 PM
by silversoul7
* Reports That Led to Terror Alert Were Years Old, Officials S Tao 614 4 08/05/04 03:32 AM
by luvdemshrooms
* Top US Officials: Case for War Was Confected
( 1 2 3 all )
Zahid 3,307 42 11/11/03 06:59 PM
by afoaf
* Top Iraqi Official: Saddam Not Organizing Anti-US Resistance Zahid 727 11 11/05/03 06:40 PM
by enimatpyrt
* 1969 Discussion about aids Prisoner#1 723 13 06/05/03 08:20 PM
by Anonymous
* Hey LuvDemShrooms - You forgot to reply to this thread...
( 1 2 3 all )
somebodyelse 3,850 50 07/05/03 02:39 PM
by somebodyelse

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
1,183 topic views. 1 members, 4 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.031 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 15 queries.