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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: My nightmare. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28447393 - 08/26/23 12:42 PM (5 months, 2 hours ago)

We can disagree if you want.

But I have the entire psychological community. With loads of evidence. Based in scientific fact, backing me. This was a discussion of a dream. This is not a chance for someone to declare. They disagree with the entire concept that non-rem sleep dreams exist.They do in mine & others opinions. Let this be the end of it.


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Edited by GenesisCorrupted (08/27/23 09:02 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: My nightmare. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28447412 - 08/26/23 12:55 PM (5 months, 2 hours ago)

Let me clarify the remembering of dreams, or the remembering of anything.

Memory in humans and animals is not like digital content with random access, and it is not like video tape, although sequences that have been experienced can be recalled in order (including reverse order - which is a great buddhist meditation BTW - lying in bed at night and remembering in detail what happened and what happened before that all the way up to getting into bed the night before)

What is recalled, is what is accessible in context.

For example with one group of people, I may not remember (guaranteed I won't) a relatively close relative's name, but a few minutes later or earlier I might have in different contexts: I have not forgotten the name, forgetting is not even possible for something you know and use, but access to the memory is very iffy - you need enough unique cues in mind to tickle the memory reflex that you are looking for.

With dreams, which are a lot like being stoned, very rich experiences happen. There is a potentially euphoric haze that is emerged from while waking from REM into the new context, and the memory may or may not still be accessible: depending on how much you change your body position, and whether you open your eyes or are thrust into dialog or response (including silencing an alarm) you may or may not remember the dream.
HOWEVER, often an NREM dreamless period will follow a REM dream, and if a person is awakened from the NREM or even from REM long after the dream, the dream may be recalled as just having been dreamed, but it is the fault of the researcher not to have considered all the weak aspects of their experimental method in which self reporting is relied upon.

unfortunately peer review, ain't what it used to be, and the link is not a link to an experiment but to a news release - and those are usually to be taken with a grain or two.

To have mental contents (including dream content) in the brain, you need alpha (or theta) wave which reveals that the thalamus and cortex are in feedback supporting briefly sustained cortical neuron activations.  No cortical neuron activation, no consciousness of any kind.


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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: My nightmare. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28447417 - 08/26/23 01:01 PM (5 months, 1 hour ago)

Let me start with an apology. I didn’t realize that I was literally saying the opposite of your field of research.

Utterly fascinating. Due to my background in psychology and the books that I read. I felt very strongly about my beliefs. I can tell you do too. I won’t PM you anymore. Please unblock me. So that you can send me some links to these articles. I want to read some of what you have been reading.

I appreciate you taking the time to explain yourself. It was worth it.


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Edited by GenesisCorrupted (08/26/23 01:04 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: My nightmare. [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 1
    #28447424 - 08/26/23 01:10 PM (5 months, 1 hour ago)

I rechecked the news article and found a link to this:
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep30932
which is the actual experiment which is NOT AT ALL LIKE THE SCIENCE REPORT

in the experiment, during NREM, they activate the brain using TMS equipment which restarts alpha/theta brain activity without eye movement.

then
Quote:

TMS-evoked responses were averaged over the last 30 seconds before the awakenings



then they got reports of dreams from people who could handle the questioning properly.

This means that sure you can get dreams induced into NREM, by initiating unusual direct stimulation

you can search "alpha band" which is explained as 8–13 Hz, i.e. inclusive of theta.


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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: My nightmare. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28447442 - 08/26/23 01:27 PM (5 months, 1 hour ago)

So self actualized am I in sleep. People have been able to ask me questions and have me answer them. Like I said, I’m not a typical sleep pattern. Kind of guy. But I will definitely read this article. Thank you very much for your time. Appreciate you.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: My nightmare. [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28447705 - 08/26/23 06:02 PM (4 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I rechecked the news article and found a link to this:
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep30932
which is the actual experiment which is NOT AT ALL LIKE THE SCIENCE REPORT

in the experiment, during NREM, they activate the brain using TMS equipment which restarts alpha/theta brain activity without eye movement.

then
Quote:

TMS-evoked responses were averaged over the last 30 seconds before the awakenings



then they got reports of dreams from people who could handle the questioning properly.

This means that sure you can get dreams induced into NREM, by initiating unusual direct stimulation

you can search "alpha band" which is explained as 8–13 Hz, i.e. inclusive of theta.




Right, now that would seem to check out just fine; but, if - as is with the other case or mentioned report, when worded to indicate other than as is directly corresponding to resultant finds, then it may as well likely be a sweet looking mess of misleading cockamamie, if not downright gaudy gobbledygook. :shocked:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: My nightmare. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28447778 - 08/26/23 06:56 PM (4 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
...

Right, now that would seem to check out just fine; but, if - as is with the other case or mentioned report, when worded to indicate other than as is directly corresponding to resultant finds, then it may as well likely be a sweet looking mess of misleading cockamamie, if not downright gaudy gobbledygook. :shocked:



but they are using sophisticated equipment,
and getting good field experience,
so
there is that.
My guess is that 95% of research is not as significant as we might imagine.

This is similar to the army, in that most of the hard work is about keeping the form, and being ready to respond when necessary.

the bleeding edge of science is a wobbly thing.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: My nightmare. [Re: redgreenvines] * 2
    #28447931 - 08/26/23 10:14 PM (4 months, 30 days ago)

:cantarguewiththat:

points well taken.  :thumbup:


*whacks over wobbly thingy before fleeing*


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