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Invisiblecovertjoy

Registered: 07/09/23
Posts: 272
Alcohol Agar
    #28446521 - 08/25/23 02:44 PM (8 months, 19 days ago)

Has anyone tried alcohol agar?

In this book it says it promotes rhizomorphic growth:




I have seen a recipe which suggests around 0.45% absolute ethanol although I don't know if this would be 500ppm (any chemists?).

I'll try it out sometime myself and share results but just wondering if anyone already has, and bringing it to people's attention for anyone interested if not.


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Invisiblethirdeyewild
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 941
Loc: Flag
Re: Alcohol Agar [Re: covertjoy]
    #28446523 - 08/25/23 02:49 PM (8 months, 19 days ago)

I don't think the alcohol would still be in the agar after pcing
Nvm, I see they add it after. 😆


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Edited by thirdeyewild (08/25/23 02:50 PM)

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InvisibleveggieM

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,538
OG Cultivator
Re: Alcohol Agar [Re: covertjoy] * 7
    #28446699 - 08/25/23 06:09 PM (8 months, 19 days ago)

Why would you want to promote rhizomorphic growth? Both rhizomorphic and tomentose mycelium will produce large, healthy, and potent flushes. If there is rhizomorphic or tomentose growth on a plate is usually dependent on the concentration of nutrients. More nutrients more tomentose, less nutrients more rhizo.

A basic 10, 10, 500 agar recipe. Reduce the LME by 25%, from 10 to 7.5 and you will have more rhizo mycelium growth.

Alcohol does have a place in agar work, I'll usually have a beer afterwards.

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Invisiblecovertjoy

Registered: 07/09/23
Posts: 272
Re: Alcohol Agar [Re: veggie]
    #28446936 - 08/26/23 12:05 AM (8 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

veggie said:
Why would you want to promote rhizomorphic growth? Both rhizomorphic and tomentose mycelium will produce large, healthy, and potent flushes. If there is rhizomorphic or tomentose growth on a plate is usually dependent on the concentration of nutrients. More nutrients more tomentose, less nutrients more rhizo.

A basic 10, 10, 500 agather recipe. Reduce the LME by 25%, from 10 to 7.5 and you will have more rhizo mycelium growth.

Alcohol does have a place in agar work, I'll usually have a beer afterwards.




I am open to what you are suggesting but I suspect there may be some merit to the idea that promoting rhizomorphic growth is advantageous when it comes to growing mushrooms, in line with the hear-say that many share.

Rhizomorphic growth appears to be the form the mycelium takes when it is reaching out looking for somewhere new to colonize. Producing fruiting bodies is also a way for the mycelium to find a new location to colonize.

I have observed in glass containers mycelium fully colonizing the spawn mixed substrate before becoming very rhizomorphic to push through the top layer of pure coir and then commencing fruiting. In the presence of bacteria it does so prematurely which is another reason for it to want to find somewhere new to colonize. This model also explains why it takes rhizomorphic form when the nutrient level in its current location is lower as you have noted.



The question in which case becomes, is there any benefit to promoting rhizomorphic growth in the early stages, on agar for example, in the spawn jar, in the bulk substrate colonization phase; or is the final stage when the bulk substrate is fully colonized the only stage that matters and rhizomorphic growth will happen naturally when the mycelium runs out of substrate to colonize anyway?

At the agar stage, we do want to observe that the specific genotype is fully capable of producing strong rhizomorphic growth, at the very least.


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Edited by covertjoy (08/26/23 12:33 AM)

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Offline1mpatient
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Registered: 08/31/23
Posts: 4
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
Re: Alcohol Agar [Re: covertjoy]
    #28459295 - 09/05/23 09:23 AM (8 months, 8 days ago)

Hi, I’m not a mycologist, but assuming that rhizomorphic growth is indeed the mycelium looking for new area to colonize, wouldn’t that mean rhizomorphic growth might colonize a whole jar faster than tomentose growth?


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OfflineZwinst
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Registered: 02/27/21
Posts: 142
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 1 day, 17 hours
Re: Alcohol Agar [Re: 1mpatient]
    #28482339 - 09/25/23 12:23 PM (7 months, 19 days ago)

I have seen strong rhizomorphic growth in heavily yeast contaminated enigma on plates - cleaned up cultures would grow more tomentose.

Maybe there is a connection to alcohol.

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Offline11.11
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Registered: 10/23/23
Posts: 15
Last seen: 18 days, 16 hours
Re: Alcohol Agar [Re: 1mpatient]
    #28516067 - 10/24/23 12:43 AM (6 months, 21 days ago)

I think it's the yeast itself

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OfflineKinoko314
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Registered: 12/16/22
Posts: 1,521
Loc: Colorado Flag
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Re: Alcohol Agar [Re: 11.11]
    #28525267 - 11/01/23 08:49 AM (6 months, 13 days ago)

It's odd that the recipe you linked is only using 1% agar.  I feel like that wouldn't even solidify a little bit, but IDK.

Like Veggie said, it doesn't really matter if you get rhizo growth or not, but it still might be fun to see if it works if only to get beautiful plate pics.  Too bad I only have isopropyl.

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InvisibleIncredMarS
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Registered: 10/27/23
Posts: 19
Re: Alcohol Agar [Re: Kinoko314]
    #28529391 - 11/04/23 05:59 PM (6 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Kinoko314 said:
It's odd that the recipe you linked is only using 1% agar.  I feel like that wouldn't even solidify a little bit, but IDK.




"Solid culture media are prepared by adding 1 to 2% agar..."

https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/US/en/technical-documents/technical-article/microbiological-testing/microbial-culture-media-preparation/types-of-media-in-microbiology

I haven't experimented with agar percentages, but apparently 0.5% is used for semi-solid agar (custard like texture).

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Invisibledurian_2008
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Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 18,037
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Re: Alcohol Agar [Re: covertjoy]
    #28531747 - 11/06/23 01:09 PM (6 months, 8 days ago)

Before I started experimenting with alcohol, I was thinking of how friendly bacteria in mildly alcoholic drinks was used as a means to keep water potable, in primitive times. And, I heard alcoholics saying how hard booze kills candiasis, anecdotally.

I was thinking of how rooting and branching hormone can be taken from natural sources, such as when heads of grain start to form, and from algae and from pollens, and how mushrooms would be growing as hemiparasites amongst adventitious roots, where they might be triggered by such hormones as would naturally occur in wild yeasts and bacteria.

I read how some species are impossible to fruit under lab conditions, and I tired to put a name on terroir-like aftertastes in different harvests and considered how symbiosis might be the only way possible.

Early on, in my first try, no contams are showing.

I get that, scientifically, everything is usually itemized for formal purposes, but mushrooms should be studied as a community.

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